Thread Number: 63355  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
GE PDT750 Takes John's (combo52) Peanut Butter Test
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Post# 859417   1/1/2016 at 09:42 (593 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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I recalled a post in which John Lefever (combo52) mentioned a good test for a dishwasher's ability to clean in the upper rack was to smear peanut butter inside glassware. It took one week, two loads, and an accidentally deleted photo to complete the deed---but here it is.

First Load: I was on my own Christmas Eve and decided to add a couple of tall, peanut butter-smeared glasses to the load in the upper rack (Photo 1). One was placed in the back right corner of the rack and one over the bottle-washing sprayer. They are my 7" tall iced tea glasses (Photo 2). I selected the Normal Cycle with Temp Boost and the Bottle Wash option (Photo 3).

Results: The glass over the bottle sprayer, unsurprisingly, emerged spotlessly clean. The glass in the back corner was only partially cleaned, with five spots of peanut butter ranging from the size of a dime to the size of a fifty-cent piece remaining. I took a photo, but must have deleted it. At any rate, the back right corner of the rack definitely flunked the test.

Second Load: New Year's Eve day my interest in posting results of the test returned. This time I used three glasses: One in the back right corner (to replicate test #1), one in the middle of the left side, and a shorter glass in the back left corner. I wanted to know if the GE could handle a shorter glass in the corner, as the tall glass proved beyond its capability. (Photo 4). I selected the Normal Cycle with Temp Boost, placed a Cascade Platinum pac in the dispenser and pressed start (Photo 5).

Result: I pulled everything but the glasses from the top rack, expecting to see deposits on the tall glass in the back right corner (Photos 6 & 7). In what can only be described as a bewildering WTF moment, the glass was clean, save for a small spot. The glasses on the left side of the rack were completely cleaned. I have absolutely no explanation for why the glass in the back right corner emerged cleaner in the second load. Both racks were more fully loaded in load #2, which should have made it the more challenging test.

Final Analysis: Inconsistent cleaning in corners of upper rack.

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Post# 859431 , Reply# 1   1/1/2016 at 11:22 (593 days old) by mamapinky (blairsville pa)        

Frig, I am going to try this test today in my old Frigidaire. Cheryl

Post# 859466 , Reply# 2   1/1/2016 at 14:43 (593 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Thanks for another issue of FrigiLux Reports. I have to wonder, though: what's so difficult about removing peanut butter? Won't it just melt from the heat?

Post# 859478 , Reply# 3   1/1/2016 at 16:05 (593 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Two things

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for my dishwasher are dried peanut butter or miracle whip on butter knives. Not always, but once in a while, there will be a knife that comes out of the dishwasher with residual left on it.....but not always.....but if the peanut butter or miracle whip is on an actual dish, it comes clean! Dunno why

Post# 859480 , Reply# 4   1/1/2016 at 16:16 (593 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Peanut butter is something that has always given dishwashers trouble since the removal of phosphates. Before the exile, you could but a knife slathered in pb goop, and afterwards not a trace or smell was left. Detergents now, while full of enzymes and very well improved since the start of the removal, still can't quite handle pb because it's such a dense fatty protein. With both the PowerClean and the Maytag-Voyager, if ever there were a knife with peanut butter left on, they would always come out with little spots of dark brown, almost rust-like, that can only be removed with soaking in hot water and soap and then scrubbing the crap out of them. It seems more common on silverware and butter knives, especially those with serrated edges. It may have something to do with how it sticks to metal. Glass never seems to have a problem letting the stuff go. And plus, even if there is no peanut butter to be seen, there is always the smell. Blegh. I love pb but it's kinda like fish; smells good when eating, but is kinda off-putting afterward.

Egg and avocado are some other things that I've yet to find successfully removed by any dishwasher. Again, complex proteins that just don't break down or dissolve easily enough. And egg is by far worse than anything because it will "coat" everything with an invisible layer of "wet dog" odor.

Post# 859512 , Reply# 5   1/1/2016 at 19:04 (593 days old) by washman (Butler, PA)        

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how long was the cycle start to finish including dry time?

Post# 859520 , Reply# 6   1/1/2016 at 19:48 (593 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Ben-- I didn't clock the cycle time, but it usually comes in close to the estimated time shown on the screen when washing a full, fairly heavily-soiled load. I never use the Power Dry option, but it would have added 65 minutes to the cycle time.

Rationale: The same little 2-watt fan runs for 65 minutes when the Clean light comes on when Power Dry hasn't been selected. It shuts off when you open the door. The PDT750 is not a stellar drier and I find the quickest, most effective drying method is to open the door soon after the Clean light comes on.

I tried the Power Dry option when I first got the machine and found no real difference in drying performance. I'd rather not wait the extra 65 minutes before washing subsequent loads on heavy cooking days.

Photo 1: Normal Cycle + Temp Boost (no Power Dry)
Photo 2: Normal Cycle + Temp Boost with Power Dry

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Post# 859530 , Reply# 7   1/1/2016 at 21:04 (593 days old) by mamapinky (blairsville pa)        

I did try this today..I used 4 tall glasses and smeared the inside bottom and inside sides well with peanut butter and put them in the D/W all on top in far back right corner one far left back corner one center and one right front. I let them sit several hours until dinner was done and D/W loaded..than I added Cascade gel with chlorine bleach and STPP which is what I normally add...all traces of peanut butter was gone. I know this wasn't a fair test using STPP but that's a normal addition for me. Not bad for a 21year old BOL Frigidaire. Cheryl

Post# 859559 , Reply# 8   1/2/2016 at 00:49 (592 days old) by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        


Thank you for (a) running the test and (b) an honest report. It's good to know about not so good results, and it's even better to know about how repeatable it is, so props to you!

And the good thing about you running the test twice and getting conflicting results is that I can explain that one very easily: it's the same reason that a lot of people complain about bad results from dishwashers -- the larger load, which is more likely to be dirtier, made the dishwasher select one or both of a longer cycle or a stronger spray pressure/pattern.

I've seen plenty of cases of people who pre-rinse everything, then the dishwasher uses a shorter cycle and leaves things still dirty. The same dishwasher with scraped dishes, larger loads or dirtier loads leaves everything clean.

-- Paulo.

Post# 859570 , Reply# 9   1/2/2016 at 06:22 (592 days old) by washdaddy (Baltimore)        

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When you add STPP to the dishwasher are you putting into the dispenser or a particular point in the cycle?

How much should one be using in a modern day machine that only likes using minimal amounts of water?


Post# 859585 , Reply# 10   1/2/2016 at 07:46 (592 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Thanks for the explanation. I guess I can't do this test because our DW detergents still contain 30% phosphate.

Post# 859591 , Reply# 11   1/2/2016 at 08:44 (592 days old) by Johnb300m (Chicago)        

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I'm not totally surprised by these results.....aren't the upper corners the least reliable location? Especially for tall items?
Don't mean to be snarky, but I never put tall items in the corners. Seems pointless.
The spray arm on my PDT720 only has one angled jet for the far corners, which seems like not enough.

How many corner jets does WP cover the corners with?

Side note; on the X-arm GE dws, it's my understanding that the center of the lower rack is the real Power Zone in these machines. When the lower arm reverses, it sprays through less jets at higher velocity.
Would be very interesting to test out with some NASTY cookware!

Post# 859597 , Reply# 12   1/2/2016 at 09:26 (592 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        

I really have to try something simmilar in our slimline Bosch one. The upper racks are more rectengular due to the slimmer tub, which shortens the spray arms and thus makes the verry front and back middle of both racks harder to reach.

BSH slimlines have 2 small spray arms under the top rack now, which in theory makes for better coverage. Wonder if that really impacts the performance.

Post# 859600 , Reply# 13   1/2/2016 at 09:34 (592 days old) by washer111 ()        

I've yet to try this...*

It should give me something to do soon once I have run of the house for a short while soon. 


I agree with John (reply #11), however, that putting tall, thin items in the corners is pointless because the DW spray is concentrated around the centre of the machine more (look at any wash arm and this will be revealed) - obviously where the bulk of the DIRTIEST items are likely to reside. 


What will be cleaning them on more powerful machines is spray from the bottom rack (where fitted).


My experience is, without using copious amounts of rinse agent, the glasses in the corner are most likely to collect "yibblets" due to the heavier nature of that furry/sand-like stuff that accumulates.

Larger items, like coffee mugs don't suffer this issue, and thus get the corner positions with priority for me/us. Tall items in the middle glass area, or with the plates elsewhere for best performance. 


*That said, there was my performance test of "glue" mixture in January 2013 that Frigilux and I posted on

Post# 859642 , Reply# 14   1/2/2016 at 14:39 (592 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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The new Whirlpool has a jet on each end, though unlike the PowerClean and Voyager, and more like your GE, they're angled to the side, so I wonder how much water is actually making in and up to the bottom of the glass. I haven't had anything come out with grit or leftover soil, but there is never anything stuck on in our cups anyway. Perhaps I'll try the peanut butter test just for S&G and post results. :D

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Post# 859647 , Reply# 15   1/2/2016 at 16:04 (592 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
Try the PB test

Using a one armed wonder Kitchen Aid....NO DETERGENT, I guarantee it will come out clean...

Post# 859653 , Reply# 16   1/2/2016 at 17:24 (592 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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It won't come out clean if I load said one-arm wonder full of bowls, pots, pans essentially blocking all the water in the bottom rack getting very far up to the top rack.  And I had plenty loads this last week with lots of pots, pans, mixing bowls, and other cooking utensils.  I just load dirty said items packed into the machine and go about visiting with my company while the machine does my work for me.   

Post# 859788 , Reply# 17   1/3/2016 at 11:53 (591 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Okay, I bought some crunchy peanut butter, got the tallest glass I could find and smeared some PB in it. Using my everyday cycle will roughly give me: 15 min. heated prewash, 30 min. wash, 3 min. heated rinse, 15 min. final rinse and 10 min dry. Detergent is a finish tab.

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Post# 859790 , Reply# 18   1/3/2016 at 11:58 (591 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Now, lets wait for the results of the results... laughing


Post# 859793 , Reply# 19   1/3/2016 at 12:09 (591 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        
Thanks Alex

I'll never be abled to look at a mens butt again without that tune in my head...

Though, Peanut Butter Jelly by Galantis would fit as well...

This post was last edited 01/03/2016 at 12:35
Post# 859806 , Reply# 20   1/3/2016 at 14:07 (591 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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You're welcome. :D

Post# 859807 , Reply# 21   1/3/2016 at 14:09 (591 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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After the cycle was done.

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Post# 859808 , Reply# 22   1/3/2016 at 14:15 (591 days old) by frigidareu (Brunswick, Ohio)        

I'm guessing on the times when the glasses did not come clean, the spray from the lower spray arm was blocked by dishes, pots, pans etc. and the glasses did not get the benefit of the additional spray from the lower wash arm.

Post# 859814 , Reply# 23   1/3/2016 at 14:30 (591 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        

However, its obvious some manage it in even that condition, see Alex's pics.

Post# 859829 , Reply# 24   1/3/2016 at 16:11 (591 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Forgot about eggs

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Andrew, I agree with everything you said about peanut butter and eggs. I don't ever pre-rinse anything EXCEPT for those 2 things. If peanut butter is on a dish, I leave it, but I rinse it if it's on a knife or spoon. Eggs, I rinse anything that has had egg on it to get the majority off because of that invisible wet dog smell that I know exactly what you mean. (This has been the case in dishwashers I've used ALL of my life even with detergents with bleach and phosphates and massive hurricane hot water action inside a dishwasher). I have actually had dried egg on spatula and put it on the top rack in the past (not anymore) and most of the time it does come clean, with no egg traces at all, but it's that smell eggs get all over EVERYTHING that I hate.

Post# 859834 , Reply# 25   1/3/2016 at 16:48 (591 days old) by frigidareu (Brunswick, Ohio)        

Looked back at the pictures posted and still can't tell what was in the bottom rack when the DW was ran.

Post# 859841 , Reply# 26   1/3/2016 at 17:04 (591 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        

If you talk about Alex's (logixx's) load: Reply #17, picture 3; the big red rectangular pan is clearly shielding the area from the bottom spray.

Post# 859898 , Reply# 27   1/4/2016 at 00:01 (590 days old) by Gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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Passed. Normal cycle, Cascade powder mixed w/20% STTP. Pic #6 is after the first pre-wash drained.

It's an interesting challenge, I'll try again with more peanut butter, different locations. Maybe there are no "lazy corners" in the GE.

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Post# 859929 , Reply# 28   1/4/2016 at 04:27 (590 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

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Is that a 2800 ?

WOW. A tower got that clean.

I had a GE 2800 on the Yacht I worked n back in the 80s. That machine would clean anything you threw at it. I cooked for a Crew of 5 and 2 owners on board. That machine ran about 6-7 times a day. When we had guests on board I could have used 2 machines. With guests it ran about 8-9 times a day. I was on board for 8 months and it never winced or broke down. I disliked the lower rack because of the "Saucer" rack, But I loved that Top Rack.

Hey Nate ! Check this out.

Post# 859934 , Reply# 29   1/4/2016 at 04:57 (590 days old) by washer111 ()        
Reply #27

Well, that just partially or fully destroyed any claims that a GE tower wash can't do the job. That, and the fact Bob had always spoke highly of his old 1200 is more than good enough for me.

Will keep an eye on the dishwasher here and squeeze a few PB glassss in over the next day or so if I can. To do full testing, I'll even through in additional glasses on the fold down racks of the venerable dishdrawer with similarly soiled items underneath for a real test of performance.
Heck, it might go through the oven first too :P

Post# 860046 , Reply# 30   1/4/2016 at 17:16 (590 days old) by frigidareu (Brunswick, Ohio)        

I've had my GE Nautilus tower DW for over 14 years now and it has performed flawlessly. It's loud, uses a boatload of water and cleans like a SOB. The only time something has not come out clean is because of loading errors.

Post# 860049 , Reply# 31   1/4/2016 at 17:29 (590 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Good grief. The glass from my first load looked not much cleaner than this at the end of a two hour cycle. Yours looked like this after the prewash! The configuration of the lower rack would drive me nuts, but you can't argue with results like that. Glad to see so many people doing the peanut butter test!

Post# 860070 , Reply# 32   1/4/2016 at 18:52 (590 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        
The top that's versatile

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Yes, the lower racking in a GE is a challenge and it seems like it doesn't hold as much as it logically should. The silver basket is large and has a fold-down cover for small items which is occasionally useful but I believe the six compartments are too large allowing flatware to fall over and lay on the sides of the compartment. I have a 60's basket from a Silver Shower machine I want to try, a little taller sides and smaller sections.

What is lacking in the lower rack is partially made up for by that gargantuan upper rack. This load had one of the huge SS mixing bowls perched over smaller items and there was still room for more. I recently had a 7 quart stoneware Crock Pot dish, nested over smaller items again and it came out perfect with no pre-rinsing or scrubbing.

GE could make a decent dishwasher that performed well, they weren't all landfill fodder. John (combo52) gave me one of the newer, quiet motors and I insulated the thing all around and below when I installed it back in August, so it's really quiet. I don't mind the little bit of noise for fast and fabulous results :-)

This is a pic of the machine the day I installed it, the lower panel is loose because I was waiting for the adhesive on the insulation to set before putting the kickplate on.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled peanut butter challenges. Come on guys and gals, let's see those pics.

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Post# 860085 , Reply# 33   1/4/2016 at 19:38 (590 days old) by jerrod6 (Center City Philadelphia Pennsylvania, U.S.A)        

I smeared four tall glasses and one small one with peanut butter on Saturday morning.  I let the glasses sit and then included them in a load I did Sunday afternoon.  The load was dishes from Friday night thru Sunday lunch and included dishes soiled with stuck on mash potatoes and steak, broiled salmon, tofu, pasta from Saturday night, and a glass casserole pan used to bake blackeyed peas and collard greens.


Wasn't sure how it would turn out because my incoming water to the DW measured at 113F for the wash so the machine had to heat the water the rest of the way to whatever temperature it was going to use.


I placed the four large glasses in each corner of the rack and you can see the small glass in the center near the back behind a red lid and next to a red mug.  I used a Finish Quantum Max Shine Pac for detergent.



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Post# 860120 , Reply# 34   1/4/2016 at 21:18 (590 days old) by washer111 ()        
Now Its My Turn

And the results weren't perfect... Or anything close. 


In the machine's defence, I only used the Delicate cycle - 50C (122F) wash for 26 minutes, 3 rinses with the final at 60C (140F). Had I used the Heavy cycle - things would have improved, although I wanted to be fair given the soil of the dishes elsewhere.


There was no redeposition, as far as I can tell. The drain filter may have some PB in it though. 


First two are before shots, next two are after shots. 


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Post# 860155 , Reply# 35   1/5/2016 at 00:11 (589 days old) by Roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
Hey Nate ! Check this out

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That is extremely impressive. It reinforces the experiences I had with our 1250--it had an almost magical ability to reach all portions of the top rack with that spray tower. I guess I'll have to give this a go in the Roto-Rack--although, to be fair, how would I put the glass in the corner? :-)

Post# 860156 , Reply# 36   1/5/2016 at 00:57 (589 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
I'm going to try this in my Maytag

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but I just unloaded it and loaded a few dirty dishes. So it might take a couple of days before I run another load. I'm going to smear some peanut butter in a glass now and let it dry. I will post pics next time I run a load..I'm thinking Thurs or Fri.

Post# 860160 , Reply# 37   1/5/2016 at 01:28 (589 days old) by jkbff (Gladstone, ND)        

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Reply #33: a Miele after my own heart! ;)

I'll have to see what my maytag will do and what my g6365 at work will do.

Post# 860200 , Reply# 38   1/5/2016 at 08:23 (589 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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I've always wanted a Miele to play with, now even more.

I'm surprised at the F&P though, does the gentler cycle use a lower spray intensity?

I should try this at my mother's in her Bosch, I'll bet it would do OK. The only difference would be she's no longer the "Choosy Mom" she used to be and buys Wal Mart Great Value brand peanut butter :-)

My sister has a low-end Frigidaire in their apartment now, dare I even ask her to bother?

Post# 860208 , Reply# 39   1/5/2016 at 09:36 (589 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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I resisted as long as I could, but I couldn't let all these GEs and Frigidaires and Mieles get all the action!

Used JIF Naturals Creamy pb and put about a tablespoon's worth in each glass and smeared it from the bottom up the sides, and let it sit for about an hour or so. Loaded one in the very back right corner, one at the front left, and one in the middle right of the rack as a sort of "control" since jets would definitely pass under.

Set for Normal with Hi Temp Wash, estimated cycle time was 2:43, and started the machine at 8pm sharp. I listened closely for drains while we were watching Scream Queens, and the cycle ran as follows:

Prewash - 3 mins
Prewash - 5 mins
Main wash - 8:14pm-9:37pm
Rinse - 3 mins
Rinse - 9:44pm-10:30pm
Clean Light came on at 10:36pm

Also look at the awesome dish towel my Aunt Robin got me!!!

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Post# 860211 , Reply# 40   1/5/2016 at 09:48 (589 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Okay guys, so honestly I was setting myself up to expect bad results, because I still have reservations that are stuck in my head because of all the bad rap new dishwashers have gotten over the past few years.

But this thing is determined to prove me wrong with every thing I've thrown at it so far!

There wasn't a bit of peanut butter left on the glasses, the spoon, or anything else in the machine. The only thing left was a slight peanut butter aroma, but it wasn't as strong as I expected it would be, possibly because of the stainless steel interior as opposed to plastic that I've been used to. There were also a few specks of kibble on a cup that was directly under the upper sprinkler, and since the water is directed outward, it probably didn't fall much into the top of it.

The only thing left was a tiny piece of mushroom that seems to have gotten lodged under the door, but even the filter was clean. with only a few dark specks in a few places. I'm still in shock.

The first photo is the main wash water draining out. A not so appetizing blend of detergent scent and hot peanut butter.

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Post# 860216 , Reply# 41   1/5/2016 at 10:47 (589 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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I am impressed with that Whirlpool!
AND the GE PowerTowers.
I have my own peanut butter glass resting in the PDT720 till it's time to run.

Post# 860230 , Reply# 42   1/5/2016 at 13:08 (589 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Apart from the crazy cycle time, the Whirlpool did well.

Post# 860276 , Reply# 43   1/5/2016 at 17:13 (589 days old) by washer111 ()        

I use the Delicates because its more than enough for most all everyday soils, and even some casserole dishes thru the oven. Gentler spray, yes and an extra rinse, plus "guaranteed heating."

"NORMAL," despite the moniker cuts the wash time by at least 10 minutes every time for no reason, times out the water heating on the final rinse (again, for no reason other than time saving, I assume) and is just crap.
The time for Normal should work out to 84 minutes without fan drying time. IN reality, its right there with Delicates and doesn't do as good a job.

Heavy is good if you need temperature - which I suspect would have helped in this instanace, and nearly doubles the time of washing on Delicates.

Post# 860295 , Reply# 44   1/5/2016 at 18:57 (589 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
OK I'm in Too

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4 glasses with Peanut Butter schmeared at 5 O'clock


Then I set them on the Radiator until 7:30


Top Rack each Corner


Load the Bottom rack Blocking every corner so no spray from the Bottom Arm


Note the "Monkey Dishes" placed in the cornors of the right side of the Lower Rack to make sure the Spray is Blocked.


The only place that is not totally blocked is the Left Front Corner as the Silverware rack is under that glass.


Pics continued on next page.


KenWhirl's Ultra Wash System


Both Cups filled with Cascade with Dawn and 1/2 tsp of STPP in each cup.


Cycle Selected... Normal Wash with HiTemp = (Ultra Wash Normal Setting)


The Steps... Prewash, Wash, Rinse, Rinse and then Heated Dry.


The Wash and Rinse Cycle Time is approx. 52 minutes. Then about 20 minutes of Heated Dry.


Let's see what happens. Should post the results around 9:20 PM.


Should they come out soiled, I'll just run them through tomorrow in either Kenwhirl's or the KDS-20's Lower Rack.


Stay Tuned.


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Post# 860297 , Reply# 45   1/5/2016 at 19:00 (589 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Pics Continued

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Rest of Loading and the KenWhirl

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Post# 860314 , Reply# 46   1/5/2016 at 20:12 (589 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

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I'm impressed.


Back Corners... All Corners.

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Post# 860476 , Reply# 47   1/6/2016 at 20:16 (588 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
@ Toploader55

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GREAT RESULTS from a GREAT machine - I've had a glass smeared with peanut butter just waiting for the dishwasher to need running. Before I do, I will take b4 and after pics. But, I'm only using ONE glass and It's going in the top right corner closes to the door. I'm trying to pick the weakest spot, although I don't know what this dishwashers weak spot is since I've never had a dirty dish come out other than peanut butter or dried micracle whip on a knife. It has no problem with dried peanut butter on a dish at all....but, I've never had it on a glass..

Post# 860488 , Reply# 48   1/6/2016 at 21:56 (587 days old) by Johnb300m (Chicago)        
PB in the Profile

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New machine! Ok I'm in too.
I let 1 glass of peanut butter sit in the machine for 2 days, in the back left corner of the top rack.
It was included in what's usually a typical load for me; mixed dishes, plastics and cookware.
It's only got 1 visible jet to give it attention, so I have no idea what to expect, and said the corners on the GE machines were iffy.

Results in the morning!

More cycle coverage in the main thread here:

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Post# 860489 , Reply# 49   1/6/2016 at 22:07 (587 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        
One Arm Wonder-Fail

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Tried the test in the KitchenAid KDS-14 dishwasher tonight and had disappointing results.

The pictures don't lie...

Picture 6 is after the pre wash.

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Post# 860492 , Reply# 50   1/6/2016 at 22:28 (587 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture

Post# 860504 , Reply# 51   1/7/2016 at 01:44 (587 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
OK , Here goes

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Full machine as expected after about 3 days. Mixed dishes, NO rinsing at all except if there is peanut butter or mayo on knives (that's it) otherwise, just scraped, not rinsed and they sit in the machine usually 3 days. I put the peanut butter in a typical glass drinking glass a couple of days ago.

This Maytag is approx 1.5 yrs old.

I'm using the cycle I always use.

-auto clean
-Hi temp
-tough scrub (although I have zero clue what that does)
-NO heat dry

I'm using a wee bit of STPP, Finish powerball, a splash of bleach on the door before turning machine one.

the glass is in the top right corner nearest to the door - I'm NOT holding my breath for this to come totally clean! We will soon see and I will post results in a bit when it's done. The cycle usually runs 95 to 105 (ish) minutes.

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Post# 860512 , Reply# 52   1/7/2016 at 03:38 (587 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        

mark_wpduet's profile picture
but I still LOVE this dishwasher. Everything else was clean. Not sure how the results would have been if I had used Jet Clean/Steam. That runs a LONG time. But with Auto clean - no go. There was no peanut butter smell in the dishwasher at all though.

Post# 860516 , Reply# 53   1/7/2016 at 05:19 (587 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Mark-- Your test was extra tough due to the peanut butter sitting for days. Mine sat for only a couple of hours and the first one didn't come clean. Was nice to see the control panel of your Maytag. That's quite a brew of chemicals you use, LOL!

Post# 860526 , Reply# 54   1/7/2016 at 06:51 (587 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        

mark_wpduet's profile picture
aside from the powerball, only a little phosphate and a splash of bleach is all.
You're right, this was a hard test because peanut butter for days in a deep glass, top rack corner, packed full dishwasher. I probably should have used the jet clean steam cycle just to see what would happen. Perhaps I will next load and do it again. Honestly, there wasn't much left and the glass itself felt and looked really clean, except for that small spot of peanut butter left. I was thinking it might have a hazy half clean look to it, but it didn't.

Post# 860533 , Reply# 55   1/7/2016 at 07:56 (587 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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That's really interesting, Mark. I'm genuinely surprised that didn't come clean. Your dishwasher is nearly the one my parents bought before deciding to go with a Bosch.

I'll be at mom's this weekend for dinner, etc. and I'll slip a PB glass in before we start the dishwasher. :-)

Post# 860559 , Reply# 56   1/7/2016 at 11:39 (587 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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Well, the GE Profile on AutoSense + Wash Boost was pretty disappointing I must say :/ I can't even say everything else was clean either.....more on that in my other thread.

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Post# 860614 , Reply# 57   1/7/2016 at 17:39 (587 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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I've never used the AutoSense cycle on my PDT750. After seeing your results, don't think I ever will. The Normal cycle did a better job.

Post# 860626 , Reply# 58   1/7/2016 at 20:31 (587 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
I've decided I'm going to do this exact test again

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on the next load. Only this time, I'm going to use the jetclean/steam cycle. I've used this cycle a few times now (mostly by accident) - I will explain:

About once every two months, I use unsweetened lemonade drink mix which is loaded with citric acid to clean the dishwasher. I fill the main wash up and run the longest cycle. I have never timed it but it is significantly longer, I'm sure it's over 2 hours, but I don't think it goes as long as 3 hours, but I have never selected the steam sanitize option, that might increase time.....But the dishwasher remembers your last cycle, so after doing this, I end up pressing start only (which I'm used to doing) and it defaults to the last cycle used. There is a difference in sound during this cycle than auto clean. It definitely sounds like more water action to me...even though there is a lot of water action sound in autoclean too, but jetclean it's a little more pronounced.

I've never used the normal cycle on this dishwasher yet (LOL). If it did not have autoclean, that would probably be the cycle I used, but since it has autoclean, I've never ended up using it...It's a pretty fast dishwasher considering it's modern.

Post# 860627 , Reply# 59   1/7/2016 at 20:33 (587 days old) by appnut (TX)        
KDS14 results

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I'm vindicated for having such a low opinion of one arm wonders after having such abysimal results from a brand new KDS16 in 1968 with rice in pan in bottom rack.  The Waste King and RotoRack did much better. 

Post# 860681 , Reply# 60   1/8/2016 at 09:39 (586 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
One Arm Wonder?

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Is this some lingo for dishwashers that only have a lower wash arm with a tower?

Post# 860689 , Reply# 61   1/8/2016 at 10:49 (586 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Mark - It's for the early Hobart-KitchenAids that only had one wash arm in the whole machine, no tower or upper arm at all. They had enough power to blast the paint off a car door, but they were sensitive to proper loading habits, because if there were any pots or large bowls on the lower rack, the spray would be blocked to that section of the upper, so they were designed so that only plates and thin pans should be put in the lower rack.

Post# 860690 , Reply# 62   1/8/2016 at 10:53 (586 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Mark, again lol - I'm surprised you had any pb leftover at all!! With the way the upper arm is positioned and the angle of the jet at the end, it shouldn't have had any problem at all getting water up into the corner. I do think using the Heavy or JetClean cycle would have giving spotless results though. And you should try the Normal for S&G sometime, it's all I really used when I had the Maytag installed and never pulled out a dirty dish, even when they were filthy with dried goop everywhere.

Post# 860709 , Reply# 63   1/8/2016 at 13:50 (586 days old) by cam2s (Nebraska)        
The Great PB Challenge

Here is my Point Voyager KitchenAid gearing up for its moment...not the fullest load I've ever put through it but there is a large pot under the corner where the glass is so we shall she how well that upper wash arm works. The glass did sit out on the counter overnight as well.

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Post# 860717 , Reply# 64   1/8/2016 at 14:36 (586 days old) by jerrod6 (Center City Philadelphia Pennsylvania, U.S.A)        

The usual cycle I use is auto or sensor cycle--the one that uses the soil sensor.  When I tried this earlier the glasses were included with other heavily soiled items and it was a large load so I decided to try this again with a smaller moderately soiled load - nothing else burned or stuck on and no pasta or greasy items.  I only used 1 glass and placed it over the larger plates in the bottom rack. After I put the PB inside the glass I smeared it all around.


I used the same detergent, Finish Quantum Max shine.  Incoming water temp for the main wash was 102F.



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Post# 860727 , Reply# 65   1/8/2016 at 15:44 (586 days old) by cam2s (Nebraska)        
So close..but so far...

There was still a small glob on the inside edge toward the bottom. Next load I'll have to see if the Reverse Rack can do any better!

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Post# 860744 , Reply# 66   1/8/2016 at 17:51 (586 days old) by DADoES (TX,U.S. of A.)        
Hmmmm ...

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I didn't have any peanut butter so I did the test with Nutella (a bit past its prime), left to dry in the glasses for 24 hrs. Is that legitimate? One glass at the front/left corner, another beside it. Normal cycle, Cascade Institutional detergent (bleach & phosphates, no enzymes). What do you all expect for the results? Will post the pics tomorrow. (I bought a jar of peanut butter today but am hesitant to waste it ... *love* peanut butter, jar and a spoon!)

Post# 860751 , Reply# 67   1/8/2016 at 20:11 (586 days old) by Magic_Clean (Florida)        
Gave it a go

in the KitchenAid----with a twist. Chunky peanut butter, and added coffee grounds to 1 glass. Overnight to dry on. Normal--Hi-temp & heat dry. Cascade Complete pac, 6 gpg & 125F incoming hot water. Last pic shows the sump, soil sensor & residual water level.

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Post# 860753 , Reply# 68   1/8/2016 at 20:17 (586 days old) by Gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
PB is probably in my top 3 favorite foods and despite it's price coming down last year, it killed me to smear it into a glass and let it go down the drain. Lol. I still have three more dishwashers to "test" so I may have to buy a jar of store brand and save the Jif!

We had one posting with and F&P but not the Normal cycle, but remembering some of the pics you've posted with challenging loads, I'm guessing the Nutella test was a success. But then again, that Cascade with bleach has let me down a few times so...

Post# 860762 , Reply# 69   1/8/2016 at 21:35 (586 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
Memory lane

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I had to share a find from the "treasures" folder--an underfilling GSD1200 caused me to render this Photoshop gem.  Needless to say, at the time, it wasn't passing the PB test.

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Post# 860806 , Reply# 70   1/9/2016 at 04:50 (585 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

toploader55's profile picture

OMG Nate. I think you've topped them all with this one. And I'm tired of cleaning my keyboard of coffee sprayed through my nose this early in the morning. That Cycle Selector is hysterical... "Egg Bits"... LOLOLOLOL :)

This post was last edited 01/09/2016 at 09:36
Post# 860845 , Reply# 71   1/9/2016 at 07:54 (585 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        
Relabeled GE

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Hahaha - I remember when you had this machine, in CA, right? This was about the time you also came up with the "Cold Water Cascade" IIRC. Another perfectly timed gem.

Post# 860860 , Reply# 72   1/9/2016 at 09:23 (585 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Haha those are funny - "Moisten" LOL

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Anyway - I hated wasting the peanut butter too!

@ Andrew - when/if you read this -

What does tough scrub do? I know you have a Maytag similar to mine, so I thought you may know. Additionally, did you ever use the quick wash cycle on your Maytag and if so, was it any good and how long was it?

Post# 860863 , Reply# 73   1/9/2016 at 09:49 (585 days old) by DADoES (TX,U.S. of A.)        

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I suppose I goofed the test by placing the glasses in the main rack instead of on the side shelf but the glasses I used are too tall to fit on the shelves. The glass at the corner is at the extreme range of the arm's reach. A smaller item, such as a juice glass, probably would have failed in that position due to the smaller diameter.

I purged the line before starting but the input flow was less than 105F/40C. The Normal cycle heats the main wash to 140F/60C and the final rinse to 150F/65.5C.

The load wasn't as 'stuffed'-full as I usually run.

The 2nd picture looks like peanut butter but it is Nutella. The camera's interpretation of the color is slightly off-kilter

A few more items were added after the 3rd and 4th "before" pics were taken so the one glass is slightly moved in the 5th "after" picture.

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Post# 860865 , Reply# 74   1/9/2016 at 10:16 (585 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        
P7 drying

That really got me...

@DADoES Your 6th picture is really, really nicely shot... Almost comercial like!

Post# 860907 , Reply# 75   1/9/2016 at 16:43 (585 days old) by washer111 ()        

I'm glad you had far better results than I - although you did the right thing and used a "Normal" cycle that actually is a normal cycle.

Will be repeating the test in a couple of days, and will post results.

Post# 860945 , Reply# 76   1/9/2016 at 20:12 (585 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Nate's post FTW! I want a dishwasher with those cycles and options.

Post# 860955 , Reply# 77   1/9/2016 at 21:19 (585 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
Nice shots, Glenn. Nutella seems a good substitute for PB, at least when smeared in glasses.

I'll have to give the Institutional Cascade a try in the GE, perhaps the longer wash times in the GE Normal cycle will help the cleaning.

Post# 860956 , Reply# 78   1/9/2016 at 21:29 (585 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
Today I ran the test, in several forms, in the Maytag reverse-rack. This is the first of the belt-drive pump, WU601.

If loaded in the corners of the lower rack, the machine does what it's supposed to do admirably, even scrubbed off the smudge of PB left from the KitchenAid test. I gave it an additional challenge just for fun. I expected middling results at best, but the end result was a tumbler that looked like it had been in the "Moisten" cycle on Nate's GE. The 24 ounce Tervis tumbler with the schmear is in the right corner of the top rack. The glass loaded on the right of lower rack is the smudge-fail from the KA.

I used Cascade Complete powder mixed with STPP, as before.

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Post# 860969 , Reply# 79   1/9/2016 at 22:57 (584 days old) by cam2s (Nebraska)        


I guess great minds think alike...I was going to do exactly what you did with my Reverse Rack and do a glass in both the upper and lower rack. Well it just wouldn't be any fun if I still didn't do the test next load around, I guesss we will find out of there were any improvements with the direct drive pumps.


Post# 861061 , Reply# 80   1/10/2016 at 15:17 (584 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Peanut Butter Test # 2 (24 hour dried peanut butter)

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this time with the Jetclean/steam cycle. I chose EVERY option, hi temp, tough scrub, steam sanitize and I think this cycle uses a TON of water. When I opened it more steam came out that I have ever seen in my life from a dishwasher. The cycle ran over 3 hours! Before when I ran the jetclean steam cycle, I had not chosen steam sanitize, but this time I did.....there wasn't a trace of peanut butter anywhere, the glass smelled clean and no peanut butter smell in the dishwasher.

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Post# 861066 , Reply# 81   1/10/2016 at 16:24 (584 days old) by frigidareu (Brunswick, Ohio)        

Just think of all the water, energy, time, and wear and tear on the machine (running for 3 hours) to get some peanut butter out of a glass. I just pray my old non-HE dishwasher last forever.

Post# 861081 , Reply# 82   1/10/2016 at 17:41 (584 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Actually, time is the only factor that comes into play. New dishwashers have such tiny pumps / motors and use so little water (usually only 3-4.5 gallons) that the 3-hour cycle still uses substantially less energy and water than a vintage machine.

I often use the Light (49 min.) or even Express (30 min.) cycles on lightly soiled loads. But on the Normal or Heavy cycles, time is where new dishwashers can't compete with speedy vintage machines.

Mark-- Success! Using the JetClean cycle was probably the key to better results. Steam Sanitize: Did you notice if the machine stopped and just steamed for awhile? My LG used to do that when the Steam option was engaged. The GE pauses and just runs the four bottle wash jets when the Bottle Wash option is selected, which is probably why the cycle is lengthened by about 20 minutes.

Post# 861101 , Reply# 83   1/10/2016 at 18:44 (584 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
It's the JetClean cycle the one that uses twelve gallons of water?

Post# 861102 , Reply# 84   1/10/2016 at 19:15 (584 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
TWELVE GALLONS? Most new machines use .75 to 1.25 gallons of water per fill, made possible by alternating the spray between racks. That would mean 10+ changes of water. My new Maytag washer uses about 10 gallons to wash an average load of clothes!

Post# 861108 , Reply# 85   1/10/2016 at 19:45 (584 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
Just downloaded the manual

logixx's profile picture
12.7 gallons.

Post# 861111 , Reply# 86   1/10/2016 at 19:52 (584 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Dear Apple: We need an emoji showing a man's jaw dropped to the floor. Thanks!

Post# 861129 , Reply# 87   1/10/2016 at 22:10 (583 days old) by Murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Actually, Mark's Maytag, while basically new, wouldn't be technically considered an HE dishwasher, because it's of the Voyager build, just with improvements to cycle management that help it use less water and energy than the older Voyagers do, as it was built alongside the new Whirlpool Tahoe/Resource Efficient/"whatever their codename is for it" design. I'm not even sure the new Maytag design could be considered HE, because while it is built on the Tahoe platform, the removable filter is instead an accumulator filter in the same sump area, and the motor is a smaller version of what is in the Voyager, but more powerful than the PM motor in the removable filter version, and there is no diverter valve, so the fill level is about the same as the Voyager, maybe slightly lower.

Mark - Your steam cycle is probably a bit more effective than in my Maytag, since yours is the high end stainless steel model, and the element is set into the sump. In mine, the tub is plastic so the element is raised so my steam option always filled up to that point and would sit, heating the water, and would pulse the motor every now and then. It would then dump all that water and go into the final rinse. It was basically a longer version of normal Sani Rinses.

The new Whirlpool now has the element mounted down against the bottom, so I think it helps a ton with heating water more efficiently, but the water level is also barely outside the border of the sump, so I'm sure that was the main reason for doing that in this case.

Frigilux - These are always my go-to choices for being flabbergasted, haha 😐 😦 😶

Post# 861147 , Reply# 88   1/11/2016 at 01:49 (583 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Yes -

mark_wpduet's profile picture
that was a LOT of water/energy to get peanut butter out of a glass. I agree. But it was just a test is all. Since the autoclean was a fail, I needed to know if my dishwasher could "do it" on at least one of its cycles.

I searched and found the old topic back when my other 9.2 yr old dishwasher was drying a horrible death and I posted a video asking what was wrong, then it died just after I posted and continuing onto the new Maytag and install nightmare.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO mark_wpduet's LINK

Post# 861148 , Reply# 89   1/11/2016 at 01:53 (583 days old) by jkbff (Gladstone, ND)        

jkbff's profile picture
On my maytag, I'd run the auto clean with high temp wash and steam sanitize, no heated dry. That was my default cycle, unless I was using the machine mid-cooking session then it was quick wash. I really didn't use much else.

I should have ran a PB glass through before I took the maytag out.

Post# 861149 , Reply# 90   1/11/2016 at 02:06 (583 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Same, I use autoclean

mark_wpduet's profile picture
all the time...what happened to your Maytag?

Post# 861157 , Reply# 91   1/11/2016 at 04:20 (583 days old) by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
I was too lazy to put peanut butter in a glass, so when the peanut butter jar was empty I just put that in the dishwasher. It's narrow anyway.

This was 100% peanut butter, no salt, sugar, oil or fat addded. It's crunchy, the best peanut butter I ever ate. Easy to make yourself too, I think I am going to give it a try soon.

The load is not a 100% Bob load, but it's pretty full. Peanut butter jar in the corner of the top rack. Everything got clean and no peanut butter smell in the dishwasher. Dishwasher is a Miele G4210SC. Detergent is Somat 10 tab.

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Post# 861168 , Reply# 92   1/11/2016 at 06:37 (583 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

toploader55's profile picture

Very Good Louis.


And I just threw away a empty jar of Peanut Butter. Darn !!!


Does the end of the Spray Arm on the bottom of the Upper Rack have that long slit at one of the ends ?  It's amazing how quiet those Miele's are and cleaning is stellar.

Post# 861169 , Reply# 93   1/11/2016 at 06:49 (583 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        
Not quite PB...

So, this morning, I had a load ready to go, and thought why not try it out? Sadly, I recognized that I'm actually living a somewhat healthy lifestyle (not that I actually would do, LOL) and there is not one thing in this house that could be used as a substitute for PB.

So I used 2 glases, one tall, one shorter, both covered in toothpaste, the shorter sprinkeled with choclate drink powder, dried in by spending 30sec in the microwave and 1 1/2 minutes with our hairdryer.

That load in the bottom rack wasn't blocking the spray a lot, but at least a bit.
Cycle was Auto, store brand tablets (~30% phosphates).

Everything came clean, except for a plastic cup that flipped over and accumulated the drink powder.

Sorry for the bad lighting, it was early and my tablet has no flash.
Not a comparabel test, but worth a try.

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Post# 861176 , Reply# 94   1/11/2016 at 07:24 (583 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Great results guys -

mark_wpduet's profile picture
what a great idea waiting for the peanut butter glass jar to be empty to wash it. I couldn't have done that because the peanut butter I use is in plastic. But natural peanut butter is best. I use smart balance or Costco Kirkland Natural....sometimes Jif Natural. Now that would be a REAL TEST, an empty peanut butter jar that has had peanut butter glued inside it for who knows how long (from the factory!)

@ Andrew - Thanks for the info

@ Frigilux - I know right! Who would have thought? As far as the steam cycle, I do not know. I wasn't in there when things were going on

Post# 861178 , Reply# 95   1/11/2016 at 07:59 (583 days old) by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Thanks guys!

Yes Eddie, it has that long slit and the upper arm reaches far enough to get under the jar. I made a picture of it with my iPad, hopefully you can see it in the picture.

My Miele is a BOL model. It's actually louder than my previous one, an AEG (48dB vs 45dB), but I can live with that. It's a freestanding model, there are no cabinets around it to dampen the noise.

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Post# 861193 , Reply# 96   1/11/2016 at 09:37 (583 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

toploader55's profile picture

Yes Louis.


That's what I was talking about.  It would be great to see the "Forbidden Miele Wash Action" someday. LOL. That jet must have some force and is the perfect angle to reach those corners.

Post# 861201 , Reply# 97   1/11/2016 at 10:27 (583 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Forbidden Miele Wash Action

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Post# 861204 , Reply# 98   1/11/2016 at 11:00 (583 days old) by Magic_Clean (Florida)        
A variable

that's worth noting on machines with mid level spray arms.

*front to back measurement of the upper rack

*length of spray arm

The new KitchenAid rack is 21" / Spray arm 18.5"

Post# 861211 , Reply# 99   1/11/2016 at 12:37 (583 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

toploader55's profile picture

@markwp... I like your counter tops.

Post# 861216 , Reply# 100   1/11/2016 at 13:09 (583 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
@ Toploader55

mark_wpduet's profile picture
Thanks - back in 2004 when my house was built, I didn't get the upgraded counter tops, but just the generic counter tops....I wish I had upgraded though - but I do like the way they look...My house is clean and nice but everything is so basic, nothing extravagant..

CLICK HERE TO GO TO mark_wpduet's LINK

Post# 861271 , Reply# 101   1/11/2016 at 19:11 (583 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

toploader55's profile picture

Not to Hi Jack...


@ mark wp...


I have never grown to like the granite deal. I like Corian or what you've got.


I just can't get used to Granite. For some reason, I can't tell if it's clean at a glance. I have to look at different angles with the light reflecting to see where the soil is.


Any way, I like your counters. They're "Handsome".

Post# 861272 , Reply# 102   1/11/2016 at 19:16 (583 days old) by Roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
Let's do this

roto204's profile picture
Since there are no corners in the upper rack, let's up the ante, shall we?

Finish Quantum in the pre-wash cup, and liquid chlorinated gel in the covered cup, to get rid of errant coffee and tea stains.

Stay tuned...

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This post was last edited 01/11/2016 at 19:31
Post# 861277 , Reply# 103   1/11/2016 at 19:47 (583 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
For Greg

roto204's profile picture

This challenge is sponsored by all-new Cold Water Cascade.  For virtually clean dishes!


Strange; it was funnier ten years ago...

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Post# 861281 , Reply# 104   1/11/2016 at 20:08 (583 days old) by DADoES (TX,U.S. of A.)        

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My arms ... dishwasher spray arms, that is ... have a slightly-elongated nozzle on the surface at one end and a longer slit cut to the edge on the other end which just barely reaches to the glass at the corner, which is why a smaller diameter glass at that position wouldn't fully catch the spray.

I'm repeating the test under different parameters. Results tomorrow.

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Post# 861282 , Reply# 105   1/11/2016 at 20:11 (583 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
The results...

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So, the cycle came to its end, which caused my ears to perk up when I heard the scavenge-drain, and not a subsequent fill.  Off to see what happened...



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Post# 861283 , Reply# 106   1/11/2016 at 20:13 (583 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
Open, sesame...

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Oooh!  Steamy.  We have our hot water at about 145, so the dishwasher gets nice, piping-hot water.  Good thing, since this one lacks a supplemental heat cycle.


Please ignore obligatory crap piled on dishwasher.  God help us if we had a Mobile Maid.

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Post# 861284 , Reply# 107   1/11/2016 at 20:15 (583 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
Top rack

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Not bad.  A trace of crud where the glass bows inward for the ring near the base.  Otherwise, mostly clean.


Remember, this is 40 minutes later, not 3.5 hours.  :-)

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Post# 861285 , Reply# 108   1/11/2016 at 20:16 (583 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
Bottom rack

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Exactly as I expected--completely untouched.  But I'm not surprised--I had no expectation that the lower arm was designed to reach the corners quite that way.


I had to go back and wipe peanut butter off the tines.  Ew.

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Post# 861288 , Reply# 109   1/11/2016 at 20:24 (583 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        

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Here's what I suspect about the results.


First, as an aside, I'd love for the Quantum pack to fit in the main wash cup, but I'd also like a pony.  Truthfully, the first wash/main wash segments on this machine are pretty identical, so it's kind of a six-to-one, half-dozen-to-the-other issue.  It's not like a GE, where missing the main wash is a big deal due to its duration.  Still, chlorinated gel is not a great peanut-butter fighter.


This test revealed something I secretly wondered about all along.  The Roto-Rack was designed to eliminate dead spots in the top rack, and in that respect, it performs admirably.  However, the jets are pretty aggressive on this unit (as in, canted at sharp angles).  Washing performance isn't just about reaching the dishes with water--it's at least partially a factor of how much time the spray spends on the surface of the dishes.  If you pass the wash arm too quickly over them--or spin the rack too quickly above--the water spends a very limited duration washing the dish, and the "scrubbing" effect achieved by a little bit of dwell is negated.


So why don't the Big Blue KitchenAids suffer this injustice, you ask?  I suspect it has a lot to do with well-engineered pressure of the spray from the arm, and the sheer volume of water those machines could move.  When I videorecorded one in slow-motion on my iPhone, the water sent upward from the arm was still falling back toward the sump as the next sweep of the arm went by.  That's some serious water movement.  The Roto-Rack won't come close.


Still, for daily dishes, we've gotten great results from the combination above--no rejects so far.


I guess we'll have to limit our imbibition of peanut butter, though.


Post# 861297 , Reply# 110   1/11/2016 at 21:18 (583 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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I'm not surprised by the fine results from the Roto Rack.  We had a 1973 (or early '74) Lady Kenmore.  For kicks, I'd angle the dishes for maximum rack rotation speed.  That thing would spin amazingly fast.  Wow, a 40-minute cycle.  That's about half the GE's main wash time and about one-third of the final rinse, LOL.

Post# 861317 , Reply# 111   1/12/2016 at 02:13 (582 days old) by jkbff (Gladstone, ND)        

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It is out in the garage. I swapped it out for a damaged G6365 Miele I had at the store.

I thought about selling it but am now waiting for a black control panel and front panel assembly with handle to come in. I'm going to swap out my mom's old short tub whirlpool that is louder than a diesel truck.

Post# 861325 , Reply# 112   1/12/2016 at 03:44 (582 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        

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OH, so the control panel went out?

Post# 861364 , Reply# 113   1/12/2016 at 08:51 (582 days old) by DADoES (TX,U.S. of A.)        

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Failure, that's for what we're looking!

Smaller juice glass that fits on the side shelf. The 11" x 14" Pyrex baking dish blocks the spray except what gets through the back corner.

Heavy cycle, which is 132 mins total (incl 28 mins dry time). Main wash 150F / 65.5C, final rinse 163F / 72.7C. Seven water changes.

The glass bowl on the shelf is moved in the after-picture. It's a little too tall to be sure the lid seals when sitting atop the plastic pitcher. The white Grab-It bowl swapped to that position had similar residue, it emerged fully clean. There's a space between the Pyrex and pitcher through which the arm can directly spray.

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Post# 861367 , Reply# 114   1/12/2016 at 09:03 (582 days old) by washer111 ()        
Another Contender from the Drawer Department!

Here we go again!
This load probably qualifies for a BobLoad, too - having sat for three days (the PB glass was already dirty, and I smeared it with my FINGERS this time. Oh the guilty pleasure of it), and being stuffed to the gills.

The glass in this corner was blocked by cereal/soup bowls, cups/mugs underneath and of course hindered by a less-than-perfect "Phosphate Free" dishwasher powder being used in semi-hard water (Softener restored to service temporarily).

Apologies for the poor quality, was using my iPhone 3GS camera once again.

The initial photos show some development of the load before I started the machine, then the final results. A little bit of mucky water collected in the plastics, but this is expected without a constant-rinsing device of some sort.

Tap was run HOT this time to full hot, 55*C.
HEAVY cycle used: 70*C (158*F) Main Wash, Final Rinse at 65*C (150*F), 4 water changes total.

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Post# 861394 , Reply# 115   1/12/2016 at 11:42 (582 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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It's great that John's peanut butter test has not only been done across the US, but around the world!

Post# 861395 , Reply# 116   1/12/2016 at 11:48 (582 days old) by jkbff (Gladstone, ND)        

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Nope, just changing it to black since mom has black appliances.

It is working perfectly fine, even after the potatoes.

Post# 861405 , Reply# 117   1/12/2016 at 12:46 (582 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Washer111, I'd say that's a DD BobLoad.

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