Thread Number: 63422  /  Tag: Ranges, Stoves, Ovens
In the market for a new gas range, your help is requested
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Post# 860025   1/4/2016 at 15:27 (959 days old) by stricklybojack (San Diego, CA)        

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Well, I am starting the process of finding a new 30" gas range.
Straight out of the gate i run into one of these Cosmo's for $1,600.

Then i spotted the Viking at another dealer for $3,000. I think it's a demo or trade in at that price.

*edit- Oops those ranges are 36" whereas we need a standard 30".

Please post your thoughts, experiences and opinions here concerning, Cosmo, Viking or any ranges you favor, they will be appreciated.

About Cosmo

Cosmo is a leading provider of affordable luxury kitchen appliances in the USA. We are a specialist in complete stainless steel kitchen appliance collections with superior components incorporating the latest technologies. Utilizing our own special understanding of your cooking needs, our products are designed to provide every kitchen with performance, style, and value.

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This post was last edited 01/04/2016 at 22:31

Post# 860026 , Reply# 1   1/4/2016 at 15:49 (959 days old) by whirlykenmore78 (Prior Lake MN (GMT-0700 CDT.))        
Go with a tried and true name.

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KitchenAid. My relatives just got all new KA appliances in their kitchen and love them. I was very impressed with the performance and build quality. Plus, being as KA are made by WP parts and service should never be a problem.

Post# 860028 , Reply# 2   1/4/2016 at 16:00 (959 days old) by rp2813 (The Big Blue Bubble)        

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Is the top surface stainless steel on the Cosmo?  I'd steer clear of it if it is.  I do like the positioning of the mega-burner in the center, and the rotisserie option in the oven.  I presume the racks glide on ball bearings.


We got our Electrolux Icon dual fuel range back in 2008.  It was a floor model clearance priced at $1,500 instead of (supposedly) $5,600 full retail.  The top surface is glass, which means you can use a razor blade to remove any spills or overflows that get stuck to it.  Overall, I'm happy with it.  I use the convection option frequently.  I've never been a fan of gas ovens.  I also like that I can slide pots and pans all over the surface instead of having to lift and place squarely onto another burner, and I've been spoiled by the oven racks that glide so easily.


One thing to consider is that these "chef's" style ranges don't offer the bells and whistles found on less industrial-looking models.  Our Icon has no minute timer or automatic option for the oven.  As Nate remarked on a visit some years ago, "I can't believe your stove cost more than my car and it doesn't even have a timer."


Here's a picture of the closest thing I can find to our model:


Post# 860290 , Reply# 3   1/5/2016 at 18:39 (958 days old) by Stricklybojack (San Diego, CA)        

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After spending some time clicking around and getting a feel for what's out there, all I can say is, holy crap are stoves expensive! You can easily spend well over a grand on ugly junk. "Cheap" knockoffs of the high end stuff can be had for 2k and up. The high end stuff starts at 4K...goes and way up from there.

Bosch, Samsung , GE Cafe, and maybe a KitchenAid is the standard fare that has cought my eye so far, those run from $1,500 to $2000 and up.
Capital, Bluestar, and maybe Five Point are the professional style ranges that interest me. Those check in at 3-4K for the entry level, on clearance. Perhaps better to find one lightly used.
NXR, Krucht, and Thor Kitchen are the knockoffs that hold some promise and split the difference at 2-3k.

Being we need a 30" unit, vintage gas stuff seems limited, especially in top condition, it looks like we will be buying one of recent vintage.
On top of everything else we,will have to hire a plumber to install a gas line so that affects our budget.

Like the looks of that Icon btw..

This post was last edited 01/06/2016 at 01:51
Post# 860304 , Reply# 4   1/5/2016 at 19:29 (957 days old) by rp2813 (The Big Blue Bubble)        
If you have them in your area --

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The warehouse genre of appliance retailers around here (Airport Appliance & Pacific Sales to name a couple) carry many brands and seem to always have some odds and ends clearance priced.  Some of these dealers have special locations containing only such items and are only open on specified days (Western Appliance).  That's how we found our Icon so cheap, and also how we got our KA Architect SxS fridge still with protective wrapping on its bins, etc. for less than 50% of retail.  Both came with full manufacturer warranties as with any brand new appliance.



Post# 860305 , Reply# 5   1/5/2016 at 19:33 (957 days old) by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Best 30" Gas Ranges

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First of all if you have to hire a plumber to install a gas line I would assume that you already have a 240 volt line in your kitchen, so if that is the case and you want to have a gas range go buy anything you think looks good that you can afford, because you are not likely a serious cook.


Yes there are many great cooks that cook on gas ranges [ and electric ranges like Julia Child ] but the bottom line is electric ranges slightly or greatly out perform gas ranges in all respects.


And having been in this business for over 40 years and having seen many people make the switch from electric to gas I have never seen anyone become a better cook.


Yes some were happy with the switch, but most could not believe what a mess a gas cook-top becomes and how difficult it is to clean.


They also complain about the excessive heat and odor from gas cooking, and a signifant % just gave up cooking at home after the switch.


People who do best with gas ranges are folks that either do not cook much or have full time cleaning help [ or just have too much time on their hands or no other life, LOL ]


Bottom line is you can get a great cooking Electric or gas range for less than $1500.00, if you need more range than this buy two ranges and install them side X side.


John L.

Post# 860313 , Reply# 6   1/5/2016 at 20:09 (957 days old) by Stricklybojack (San Diego, CA)        

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John, don't take this personally, but you are simply wrong. I very much appreciated your expert input on the SQ we bought, but having cooked on gas for many decades now it turns out my wife and I know what we like; and it has nothing to do with how serious we are.
Does one need to explain the preference for cooking with gas.. really? Not what's "better", but what one prefers. Pans laying on electrical elements feels wrong to me, end of story.

That said I am still glad to hear your opinion, and any others that may post on this thread.

My father put electric in this house because he thought it was safer. He never cooked anything other than toast in his life. Thus, I started cooking on an electric stove, but after moving on many of the abodes I have hung my hat had gas ranges. My wife is from England and currently does most of the cooking for us, she hates electric. Our apartment in NYC has a sweet little Wel-bilt range.

My mother grew up as the house cleaner and her sister was the cook while both their parents worked during the depression. Her sister later had a very successful restaurant in Palo Alto/silicon valley where every tech name you have every heard of -now over the age of 60- ate at one time or another. She liked gas too, and went to great length -telling contractors and architects to buzz off with their bs mostly- to put a vintage gas range in her newly renovated home...that was in the mid 70's btw. She has passed away, but my mother lives on and soon we will be doing the cooking for her.

Some things just don't reduce to logical, statistically measurable out comes and a person's cooking fuel preference is in my opinion one of those things.

This post was last edited 01/06/2016 at 03:16
Post# 860319 , Reply# 7   1/5/2016 at 20:27 (957 days old) by washman (Butler, PA)        

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that's why ALL professional kitchens use electric cooktops. NOT!


Funny, my 72 year old father cooks with a GE made in Mexico gas range and has not had one single culinary class but cooks his tail off when his back allows him to stand. Nor has he complained about heat or clean up. Unless his coffee pot boils over which is rare.

I grew up with a gas range beginning in 1977 with a BOL Magic Chef in a mobile home. Cooked with a Brown gas range in a $360/month apartment in college. Parents got a double wide in 1993 with a MOL Magic chef range. Nary a complaint from anyone and we cooked our collective asses off in there. Thousands of meals were cooked on those basic gas ranges.

One advantage to gas that cannot be denied and I don't care if someone installed 100,000 units in 10 lifetimes is is vastly superior to any electric unit when it comes to temperature control. You want off? Turn off the gas and heat ceases. Try that with any electric unit. Be prepared to move pot or fry pan off if you want to stop cooking.

If gas is so bad, why do professional kitchens use them? Even Gordon Ramsay has one in his very expensive digs in Chelsea, London. Perhaps he knows something we don't?

Post# 860323 , Reply# 8   1/5/2016 at 20:38 (957 days old) by luxflairguy (Wilmington NC)        

I want to echo John's words. I've had both over the years, everything from vintage to Garland and Dacor. When we moved here to Sumas I had the choice between an electric range and a gas range as there is both utilities behind the stove. New construction. My late partner Lynn, thought we should go electric so if we moved we could take it with us. So I bought a TOL GE smoothtop. Loved the top, hated the SLOW heating oven. So for Christmas 2014 he bought me a TOL Frigidaire gas range. Love/hate at once. 2 big burner in right front and left rear. The left rear was so close to the backsplash you couldn't center a large pot on it. Most of these stoves have a small 5K burner and it's almost useless. While I loved the oven, I got tired of the heat and the constant on and off of the burner. Now that I'm alone, I found that the gas top limiting and really got tired of turning the hood up high each time I wanted to use the oven.
So before Thanksgiving, a friend and I went to my storage and bought back the smoothtop. As even Consumer Reports says, the smoothtop is FASTER than a gas burner and I can attest to that. I also, now cooking for one have many more options on the cooktop for smaller pans without having to dial back the heat. I have a "Powerboil" burner than is way faster than gas and my biggest burner has 3 different size rings-6",9" and 12". I use the 12 more than I thought with my stockpot. I've learned to turn the oven on earlier than before and love the huge size. I cooked for a charity Christmas Eve dinner and was able to do 8 turkey breasts at a time the oven is so big. Not to mention
SELF cleaning! And clean-up? Cleaning the sump area of the gas range was a pain. The grates were always greasy and didn't fit in the dishwasher. The area around the burners got messier and messier. And the oven didn't self clean as well.
So don't look down on a smoothtop. I don't think I'll ever look back!
So there's my 2 cents. G

Post# 860349 , Reply# 9   1/6/2016 at 00:04 (957 days old) by rp2813 (The Big Blue Bubble)        
Let's Review

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The title of this thread is, "In the market for a new gas range, your help is requested." Italics mine.


What part of "gas" do people not understand?


I grew up with electric and learned how to deal with its major shortcoming:  slow response times in both directions.  Still, when the choice was mine to make, I went with gas.  I'll find any excuse to use my pressure cookers, and trying to find the sweet spot on an electric burner's setting is nearly impossible.  Constant fiddling and turning the heat control up or down a notch.  Back & forth, back & forth, babysitting the damned PC the entire time.  No thanks.  I set the gas flame where it needs to be and I'm free to tend to other kitchen tasks.


Besides the infinite control of the flame, another reason for going with gas was because back when Dave was still cooking, he was hard on things and an electric stove simply wouldn't have held up.  I had to get my mom's '49 Westinghouse out of here fast after we moved in or he'd have destroyed it.  Good gas cooktops have heavy duty grates that are practically indestructible.  So there's that.  I still have my many years of experience with electric influencing my cooking technique so am not in the habit of sliding pans around on the burner or slamming them down, but if I were to do either, the grate wouldn't even flinch whereas doing the same on an electric coil could put it out of commission. 


As I stated above, I want nothing to do with a gas oven.  Electric is far better IMO for baking and broiling.  That's the beauty of a dual fuel range.  There has to be a demand or they wouldn't make them, and every one I've seen has gas cooktop and electric oven -- never the other way around.





Post# 860351 , Reply# 10   1/6/2016 at 00:17 (957 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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I grew up with electric, we switched to gas in '92 and have never looked back.  My sister switched when they built their two new houses, but when they moved again the house already had electric.  As soon as she could she had it switched out for gas too.  But induction, that's another story.  Love it but not as the only cooking surface.  When we build our new house I'll probably have both...gas range and induction hob or cooktop.  I don't like electric ovens.   


I'd love to have a Wolf, always wanted one, but not feasible currently to spend $4000+ on a stove (but the house will be paid off next year)!  So, I have a Frigidaire 5 burner self-cleaner that has the big porcelain coated cast iron grates that I can throw in the dishwasher.  Very happy with it.  Mother has a Frigidaire 4 burner self-cleaner and she's happy with it too.  Neither of us use the clean cycle though...I'd rather use Easy-Off!  Not sure what sister has.


I've never heard of Cosmo.  Are they American or Chinese (or other) made?  Can't find that information online, may just have to email and ask. 

Post# 860353 , Reply# 11   1/6/2016 at 00:23 (957 days old) by gusherb (Chicago/NWI)        

It's not a 36" but I love our GE double oven gas range that we got in September. It's not perfect but it's a well thought out and designed appliance. The ovens work beautifully, heat fairly quickly and maintain temperature very tightly. I need to get a thermometer though and see what's going on. When I use Convection Bake mode it appears to over compensate a little and cause me to bake cookies for about 3 minutes longer than called for.

The cooktop is great except I wish the 12,000 BTU burner were in the front instead of the right rear, I feel that's stupid to put a large burner in the back. But overall once I got the hang of controlling a gas flame again I realized just how LITTLE control I had with our old Maytag electric range. With the electric, frying things in butter always resulted in the butter burning at some point no matter how proactive I tried to be with the heat. On the gas I was able to fry Latkes without adjusting the flame for 30 minutes straight and nothing ever got too hot or too cold.

One of the nice design touches I appreciate was the oven light bulb covers being simply a twist off, the bulb in the bottom oven had a surprisingly short life (it was a GE 40 watt bulb made in Germany) so I got to see how easy it was to change it. (All the oven lights I've seen before required removing a screw)


Post# 860361 , Reply# 12   1/6/2016 at 00:48 (957 days old) by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        
Whether Gas or Electric

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is better for cooking is a matter of personal preference. I grew up and learned to cook primarily on electric so I'm very comfortable with electric. I have used gas from time to time because that was what I had. I don't mind using older gas stoves, they have better control of the burners in my opinion.
But the newer gas stoves not so much. Our last home was new when we moved into it in 1987 and it had a new GE gas stove. I hated that stove! If I had the flame adusted down low on a burner to maintain a simmer I found that the flame would often blow out. Also, there was a lot of gas film that would cover the surfaces in the kitchen. When we moved to our present home in 1994 it had an electric stove and I was so happy to be back using what I preferred. If someone likes to cook with gas better good for them, same goes for electric. If you are an intuitive cook, pay attention to what you are doing and are flexible I believe that you can cook well using either gas of electric. You just need to be adaptable. So I say buy the stove that suits the way YOU like to cook.

Post# 860365 , Reply# 13   1/6/2016 at 01:41 (957 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Gas-electric-I can use EITHER-one or the other suits me fine.Remember folks-its not magic-either one is a HEAT source for cooking.don't think the food cares as to wich fuel its heated with.Moms house-electric-Dads Propane gas,Apartments-gas-houses I have bought and lived in-electric.Commercial places--gas becuase of cost.Electric would be too expensive for them.-and traditional things.When I go to a place to eat-listen to their gas meter as you walk by it!

Post# 860367 , Reply# 14   1/6/2016 at 02:35 (957 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

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Oh my oh my, we sure have a way of stirring up discussions here. Cooking on gas vs cooking on electric is almost as you start a discussion about frontloaders vs toploaders... has a few things to say about gas ranges.They wrote reviews on gas ranges. Perhaps this is of some help.

Post# 860372 , Reply# 15   1/6/2016 at 04:28 (957 days old) by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

Ralph: I think what made people give up on suggesting gas was that Robert mentioned the budget had to fit a plumber to install a gas line.

Robert: here's the thing, I grew up with gas, and have used both gas and electric, so it's not that I don't know what I'm talking about. So, to be as gentle as possible, make sure you and your wife don't like induction as soon as possible, before spending money on a new gas line and gas range just so you'll end up regretting the decision. Amazon has a $50-60 MaxBurton induction hotplate that is a very nice demo/intro of what an induction range can do, except that most induction ranges will have much higher power burners (although most of them will lack the thermostat).

If you don't like induction, sure go ahead and get a gas range. But my parents got a new home built a few years ago and got a gas range. Every time I visited I found their range takes forever to heat up, and here's the kicker, it takes what feels like forever to change temperatures (up or down -- those "heavy duty" grates sure store some heat in them). When the water finally boils for pasta, you add the pasta and then have to wait a long time for it to come back to a boil -- also, when you fry stuff, there's a lot of water in the frying pan that takes forever to evaporate, which doesn't happen on my stovetop. A year ago, my parents finally noticed I have an induction range (they thought it was just a radiant smoothtop, and I'm not the pushy "hey look at my stove" kind of guy). They noticed because dinner got on the table real fast compared to their stove, and cleanup was a breeze. This year they visited again and made a point of using my range (which they never did before). Now they want to install an electrical line to get an induction stove. Which I had mentioned to them when the house was still in planning stage.

Anyway, good luck with your new range!
-- Paulo.

Post# 860375 , Reply# 16   1/6/2016 at 05:17 (957 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        
my fears

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for a complete induction range would be reliability...I just don't know enough yet.  Besides that, back in '94 when we had an ice storm and knocked the power out for days we could still cook...that's what made my sister change to gas.  But, I second what Paulo said above...check out really is awesome.  I use my portable cooktop most of the time unless I'm cooking several things at once, then I'll use the range top burners.  It REALLY does boil water super quick.  My pressure cooker loves the control it provides.

Post# 860393 , Reply# 17   1/6/2016 at 08:15 (957 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada)        

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I have a portable induction cook top also and love it. I use it 99% of the time now rather than the electric cooktop. Adjusting the heat is fast and easy. Turn down the temperature and it reacts instantly. Bringing a pot of water to boil is much faster than on the electric stove. I've never cooked on gas so I can't make the comparison but induction compared to a regular electric is amazing! My next full sized stove will definitely be induction.


Post# 860418 , Reply# 18   1/6/2016 at 11:58 (957 days old) by rp2813 (The Big Blue Bubble)        

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I have maybe two pans that would work on an induction burner.  Going with induction requires a commitment to a certain type of cookware, which for a lot of people would mean starting from scratch.  I bought a single induction unit several years ago when I thought Dave might be able to cook again, but I've never used it.  I'd like to try it for pasta, but I don't have a big pot that's compatible with induction.


I understand that plumbing costs need to be factored in if the gas stub isn't already there.  In my case, my dad had ripped out the one that was behind the stove area, but it was easy for me to run a couple of feet of pipe and restore it since it came up through the floor from the basement.  I did the whole job standing up.


The only time I have an issue with things not heating up or cooling down quickly is when I'm using the heavy custom iron simmering plate/diffuser for a pot of soup or stew, etc.  That piece will retain heat for a while after the flame has been shut off.


As for slow response after adding pasta to boiling water, that's all about the BTUs.  Both front burners on our stove are 16K BTU, and I have found that when a recipe calls for "medium-high" heat, it translates to "medium" on one of those front burners.  When we had a dual fuel Jenn-Air at our other house, those burners were only 8K and 10K, and were often not up to the task.

Post# 860450 , Reply# 19   1/6/2016 at 17:26 (957 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)        

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At Home Depot and Lowes during my retail sales associate days, the Hotpoint sealed burner gas ranges were superior and had nice,basic features.
Automatic electronic ignition on all four sealed burners and the oven, porcelain on cast iron grates.
Self cleaning gas oven, waist high broiling,see through tempered glass window, porcelain on steel drip pans,porcelain on steel cooktop, interior oven light, minute timer and a high rating in CR with one of the best frequency of repair records. Not convection. If convection is a must, go with GE. Fewer repairs,great performance and not too overpriced.

Post# 860452 , Reply# 20   1/6/2016 at 17:40 (957 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
If you have to hire a plumber to install a gas .......

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Sadly the existence of a gas main and or having to hire a plumber to install a line much less the thing itself have nothing to do with each other.

By NYC code all installations of gas appliances (ovens, ranges, dryers, etc...) requires a licensed plumber to do and sign off on the work. Of course there are persons then and now who ignore this and perhaps do the install and get some plumber to sign off.

Gas is probably the most common fuel source for cooking in the City if not all of NYC. As such you normally do not find 240v lines in kitchens, just 120v. In some buildings old enough to predate electronic ignition ways have to be found to create an outlet near enough to the range. Have seen some apartments where holes were drilled though kitchen walls to the room on other side in order to get at that outlet.

New in particular recent construction or renovation jobs (especially gut/total reno jobs) are a different story. But that still leaves a large percentage of New York housing that is old to ancient. We're talking pre-WWI, Spanish-American war, and even Civil War, *LOL*

Post# 860453 , Reply# 21   1/6/2016 at 17:44 (957 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        

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I wondered how long it would take for this thread to explode lol

Personal preferences are just that. If it's what you like then buy it.

I will point out that any comparisons to "Gas is better because it is what commercial kitchens use" is just hogwash for a home use. I suppose those same folks drive on slick tires on their cars since that is what "pro race drivers use" so therefore its better for a street car... The commercial environment is entirely different with a high CFM exhaust fan pulling out the pollutants and air born grease. They also have a fire suppression system just in case. They need the high output of the big burners they have and ability to control temp is secondary.

Post# 860455 , Reply# 22   1/6/2016 at 17:47 (957 days old) by gusherb (Chicago/NWI)        

I believe most ranges on average have/had 9,000 BTU burners so that's what recipes are basing their judgement on. On the 18,000 BTU burner on the GE, "high" translates to "medium-low", which was about the same as the electric elements on the old glasstop. In other words one could forge steel with that burner.
I boiled King Crab legs that were frozen in a very large stockpot on New Years on that burner, each time I threw some in it only took a few minutes to bring the water back to a violent boil, providing the same results as the old electric elements.

Post# 860462 , Reply# 23   1/6/2016 at 18:56 (956 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
To Each His Own - Live & Let Live

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That's what I say.

Some persons like electric burners, others gas, still some love AGA type ranges cooking as if it were 1916 instead of 2016, leave them enjoy themselves either way.

Think much depends upon how one learns to cook and becomes comfortable using. I love gas for cooking because of the instant control. If a pot is boiling over can just turn the heat down or off; just as one learned. With an electric burner may have had to move the pot/pan all together.

With even small and or budget/builder's special gas ranges/cooktops coming with one or more "high" powered burners and others lower you can have the best of both worlds.

Here in NYC were electric rates tend to be dear gas out numbers electric for almost everything involving generation of heat (hot water, home heating, cooking, etc..). Home heating in some areas however can also be oil.

Post# 860469 , Reply# 24   1/6/2016 at 19:38 (956 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

This Samsung range is at the top of the list for gas ranges at Consumer Reports. Model NX58F5700; priced at $1699 at Samsung's website. It out-scores (by 20-40 points in some cases) pro-style ranges from big names like Wolf, Viking and Dacor. CR gives it an Excellent rating for evenness in baking; rare for a gas range. Has an interesting griddle / oversized pan burner.

Full disclosure: I'm a smoothtop electric user. Had both gas and electric ranges in the kitchen. I chose to go electric when the range area was downsized. I have a TOL Frigidaire double-oven range. Overall, it's great. I prefer having two equal-sized ovens rather than a small upper / larger lower found in most brands.

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Post# 860475 , Reply# 25   1/6/2016 at 20:03 (956 days old) by washman (Butler, PA)        

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Hi Frig.

Post# 860480 , Reply# 26   1/6/2016 at 20:34 (956 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

Hi, Ben!

Post# 860482 , Reply# 27   1/6/2016 at 20:55 (956 days old) by Stricklybojack (San Diego, CA)        

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Hmm interesting, Samsung has popped up on my radar already...thx for the info F-Lux.

Laundress, like you our NYC 100 yr old LES tenement it's gas. Moving to semi-suburban San Diego where I gre up means dealing with a new fixing it and going to gas.
That said induction is a vast improvement on the standard electric elements which I generally was referencing in earlier comments. I am (sorta) sure that is what combo52 was indicating in his post as far as usability goes.
But I am a fire sign so the die is cast.

So one of the percieved selling points for some gas units is their mechanical simplicity.
The pricier stuff eschews the digital clocks and timers for heavy metal valves and such.
This apeals to me as did the mechanical simplicity of the knob version SQ FL washer we bought.
That said I like our Samsung French door refrigerator and it's quiet efficient ways.
Bosch and GE Cafe are Samsung's peer group competitors it would seem in the 30" gas range department. Any thoughts out there regarding those?

Post# 860502 , Reply# 28   1/7/2016 at 00:57 (956 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)        

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Induction is,in my own opinion,the absolute best cooktop to use. Hands down. I currently own an Electrolux made Kenmore Elite but the oven needs repair. I also have a Kenmore ceramic top that works fine but needs the inner door window replaced. It shattered during the ElectriClean cycle. It's out on the back patio and I'm glad I kept it. The induction spaces are really precise. The kids here love using them and take great care. They learned well. The speed, accuracy, and ease of operation makes induction / convection electric ranges my favorite. My next one though will be a GE. I had their thirty inch cooktop decades ago and fell in love with it. The folks who had it in their new house said it didn't work and bought a KitchenAid ceramic cooktop to replace it. When it was installed,we took the GE away and it went in my garage. I had cast iron cookware and some induction friendly stainless steel from Gayfers. I think John L. has a similar,if not the exact same model. I have yet to burn, scorch, or boil over anything.

Post# 860520 , Reply# 29   1/7/2016 at 06:04 (956 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
My 2 cents worth..LOL

I grew up in a area where almost everyone used electric ranges, so I learned on them, that said, other than heating up your house in the summer, I like cooking on gas, but even more, no matter how many people crow about a electric oven, the gas oven bakes so much better than any electric oven I have ever used, cakes are more moist and baked goods have a much more even delicate crust,to each his own,but its just like arguing over which vintage range is best, I say Frigidaire, John says GE, but Im certainly not going to argue over it, John is a great friend and a wonderful repairman, probably the best of any of us, so if he hates gas, more power to him, I may go back to gas someday, I had intended to put a 20 inch new old stock Hardwick I have beside my electric stove, but it just looked too tacky, so I didn't.....

Post# 860524 , Reply# 30   1/7/2016 at 06:19 (956 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
Oh yeah...Range recommendation

I would probably buy a GE,Unless you really want to spend a ton of money on something like a Electrolux,I personally have no use for induction, I use vintage West Bend and Vita Craft as well as Guardian Service aluminum, and I have NO intention of giving it up,I believe before long they will find out being around that strong electrical field is unhealthy, just as I would NEVER live under a high voltage power line, I don't want one of these things, I didn't even have a microwave for many years, I wouldn't now but Donald likes to heat things in one,I use it for melting butter or something like that, never cooking or popping corn, I have a Presto automatic corn popper for that, mainly, if I don't have time to cook, I don't, I never try to hurry up cooking, rarely use high heat, and NEVER broil anything in the oven, I don't like a greasy smoky kitchen.

Post# 860525 , Reply# 31   1/7/2016 at 06:40 (956 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
If you find a gas oven gives better results than an electric one, try and put a little bowl with water on the bottom of the oven. The air in the oven will be a bit more humid, may make all the difference.

Post# 860576 , Reply# 32   1/7/2016 at 13:49 (956 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
If you will remember

When Julia Child baked French bread, she would throw a handfull of cold water in the oven and slam the door to make steam, I wouldn't try that as its bound to hurt the finish..

Post# 860577 , Reply# 33   1/7/2016 at 13:58 (956 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

I know we are really getting off topic, but when I bake my sour-dough rye bread I always put a broiler pan filled with hot water in the oven first.  The steam makes the crust perfect.  I can see where the added moisture from a gas flame might add some moisture to the heated air, but I'm sure it's quite small.  I guess putting a bowl with water in the electric oven would be about the same.  I may try it next time I'm baking.

Post# 860586 , Reply# 34   1/7/2016 at 15:10 (956 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

Hans is right: Absolutely DO NOT throw a handful of water into the oven to create steam if you have a self-cleaning oven! I used a spray bottle to create steam in my Maytag gas self-cleaner in 1994 and the floor and walls wound up with a million little hairline cracks in the finish. Eventually, very thin shards of it would come up off the floor of the oven when I'd try to wipe it with a damp cloth.

Pro ranges sometimes don't have the same coating on the floor and walls. Those ovens can handle the Julia Child method.

Post# 860618 , Reply# 35   1/7/2016 at 18:31 (956 days old) by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Throwing Water In A Hot Oven

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DON'T DO IT, I have seen the porcelain finish damaged in many ovens by doing this, it would make no difference if it is a self-cleaning oven or not or a professional range for that matter, they all use the same type of porcelain enamel which is powdered glass that is fired on at around 1,500 degrees F.


If you care about the finish in your oven don't do it, however putting a pan of water on a lower rack should not cause any problem [ don't set the pan directly on the floor of the oven however ]

Post# 860657 , Reply# 36   1/8/2016 at 00:18 (955 days old) by stricklybojack (San Diego, CA)        

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I have got to see one of these in person. This seems a good price.
I was really impressed by a GE Cafe Refigerator I saw while looking for those.
If this impresses in person as that one did I may jump on it, and be driving up to OC soon.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO stricklybojack's LINK on Orange County, CA Craigslist

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Post# 860658 , Reply# 37   1/8/2016 at 00:36 (955 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
Re Water in the oven

I remember Julia doing this with Thermador wall ovens....Might help the bread, but NOT the oven,,LOL

Post# 860663 , Reply# 38   1/8/2016 at 01:49 (955 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        
I just bought a new range recently....

And did lots of research and shopping around......really depends on your budget as there is such a wide price range.

I almost did decide on gas...not necessarily because I prefer it but because I wanted the extra room on the electrical panel. I didn't end up doing it however because of the hassle of running a gas line and having to build in the proper ventilation.

Had I decided to go with gas I would have gone with a GE Monogram 30". Unlike many other pro-ranges they actually come with many great features such as a temperature probe, self clean, timed baking, proof mode etc. Apparently they have some of the best simmer elements in the industry. They are available in all gas or dual fuel depending on your preference and after seeing them in the showroom, they appear to be built like a Volvo. They are expensive however. The one I was looking at was a scratch/dent model so it was significantly discounted and the little scratch wouldn't have even been noticeable so that might be a way to go if you can find one.

Because I ultimately decided on electric I went with the GE Induction Slide In. It has great reviews and they've been making them long enough that I'm confident it will be reliable in the long term. So far I can't say enough good things about it. Elements are extremely fast/accurate, super easy to keep clean, amazing true convection oven, nice warming drawer etc. I think GE's self cleaning oven racks are also some of the best I've used.

Thats my 2 cents!


Post# 860666 , Reply# 39   1/8/2016 at 04:32 (955 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Electric vs. Gas (seems to be the way the thread is going )

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I am a Chef (and only recently started using that title after cooking for 40 years) and would like to add my opinion...

I think in 40 years I have only used Electric in a Commercial Kitchen once. It just wasn't happening for me especially a la carte service. But, then I only had that one experience and did not like electric commercially.

As John L said, a Gas Range does not make anyone a "better" cook.

I remember my Mom making the switch from a Tappan 1950 era Gas Range to a Westinghouse Electric around 1960. (The same year she installed a Bow Tie Princess).

I have cooked on both Electric and Gas domestically for 40+ years.

I prefer Electric for home use. And it doesn't matter whether it's Radiant Tubes, Calrod, Corox, or whatever. It' boils down to getting use to controlling what you are using.

I purchased a Kenmore Range 10 years ago. Next up from BOL. I have turned out Beautiful Delicious Meals on that range and paid $299.00.

My Grandmother who was an Excellent cook showed me and I watched her go from Calrod (Push and Pray) which again I had no problem with to Frigidaire's Radiant Tubes (which I had no problem with) and always prepared delicious dinners.

It's a matter of preference and what one desires to have in their kitchen.

However I will totally bash the Sealed Glass Top Ranges. NOT Induction.

The Glass Top range is for me the worse Range I have ever cooked on especially Bosch. Now there is something I have never been able to get use to or control. And as far as clean up goes they just plain suck. That glass if you dare spill anything on it is a PITA to clean period. All the cleaners in the world take a lot of effort to keep those tops looking clean.

Give me a Porcelain Enamel Electric Coil Top any day to clean as for daily cleaning is generally a quick wipe with a soapy towel or sponge.

So for what it's worth... Those are my thoughts.

If you really want Gas, Then have it installed. That way if you don't like it.. you will have no regrets and will never have to use the phrase " I should have ...".

Post# 860682 , Reply# 40   1/8/2016 at 10:19 (955 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        
Mom's happy with the Artistry range...

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She has it in white and it works well for her. Easy to clean the outside with Windex and it has the cute little clock. 3 of the burners are rather wide, so it helps to have big cookware. The smaller burner will work on small pans but is a bit weak. I'm happy with it. Some gripes though are that because Artistry "is all about style" there is no electronic package and thus, no self cleaning oven. You will have to use Easy Off. That is still better than the Aqua Lift (Aqua lie) so-called self cleaning on some Whirlpool ranges. It doesn't work and using an oven cleaner will ruin the inside so stay away from that one.


Post# 860693 , Reply# 41   1/8/2016 at 11:11 (955 days old) by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Cleaning WP Aqua-Lift Ovens

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These have the same porcelain oven linings that all ranges have and you differently CAN use regular oven cleaners on them.

Post# 860707 , Reply# 42   1/8/2016 at 13:46 (955 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
Though I know little about gas ranges.

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Here's my input.  I really like the Thermador ranges.  The Star shaped burner.  The looks of the range itself. 


Draw back is you would have to mortgage a child and sell a kidney to buy one.  $14,999 for the double oven 48" commercial grade dual fuel model I liked.


Could maybe keep the kidney if I went for the 30" model, but the kid would still have to go.







This post was last edited 01/08/2016 at 20:16
Post# 860710 , Reply# 43   1/8/2016 at 13:51 (955 days old) by jerrod6 (United States of America)        

Do you have to have gas?  If you don't can you use Induction?  My next range will be induction no more gas for me. 

Post# 860735 , Reply# 44   1/8/2016 at 16:44 (955 days old) by stricklybojack (San Diego, CA)        

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So finally got out and checkouted some gear. First off I can scratch Sears off the list as far as prospective merchants go. They carry fridges and vacuums with aplomb, gas ranges not so much.
Knobs already falling off, storage drawers jammed, "oh don't worry it was always like that." Ah that's exactly what the worry would be salesman-dude.

Much better luck at a joint that caters to builders, Pacific Sales. We bought a Bosch DW there and I got a look at pretty much everything I've short listed.
The big surprise was an LG, a brand I wasn't even considering, now looks like best in class.
The GE Cafe was decent, good enough at the right price (radical discount) like I posted above, but otherwise the LG won the day.

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Post# 861049 , Reply# 45   1/10/2016 at 13:23 (953 days old) by stricklybojack (San Diego, CA)        

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Well it looks like I got a fish on the line.
I'm scheduled to pick it up tomorrow and will post after I get off the road and back home.
Wasn't needing this just yet as it will be 6 months before it's used, but the deal was too good to pass up.
As another poster mentioned these pop-up warehouse direct appliance joints abound, with their scratch&dent/last-years-model deals, especially in LA and the surrounding area, which makes it a buyers market this time of year. Also being this deep into the real estate boom is also a plus. I have to think those that plan ahead are planning on less easy money in that business, and the many others related to it, like appliances, as we go forward.

This post was last edited 01/10/2016 at 19:57
Post# 861527 , Reply# 46   1/12/2016 at 23:29 (950 days old) by stricklybojack (San Diego, CA)        

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Well that was a long day. I got cold feet on the deal I found on Craigslist and bowed out yesterday. Then I rethought the situation and made a significantly lower offer, we compromised, and I hit the road this morning.

This range won't even be used until August at the earliest, so I was in no hurry to get anything.
I answered an ad that was over a month old, and once on the phone I hit them with a price 1/2 of what they were asking ($1,000), that is if the goods were as described.

I continued to read about this brand and got worried I had bite off more than I wanted to chew, especially since we are flying back east until June on Saturday. So as stated above I backed out, only to then think better of it, and ended up with a 30"...Thermador!

Before you go callin' me yuppie pond scum, remember I bought this used for only $400 and busted my ass hauling it down here from...well if ya have to know, Palm Springs. Yes a nice place to visit but I was there on business and it took all day for the whole trip including detours. Ahem, which comprised of hitting the thrift shops of Hemet California in search of vacuum gold. Vacuums being my first, and much more developed appliance interest.

Anyhow, I was prepared to get a current model LG, Samsung, or Bosch, or perhaps even a Frigidaire Professional or KitchenAid, depending on the scratch and dent deal I could find at one of these liquidators, or (shudders) Sears Outlet.
But that NXR 30" called to me, especially after reading a web comment/fan-letter from an owner of a Wolf range, that extolled the functional design timelessness of that brand's products.

Also, suddenly, $1,300 for a scratch and dent electronic touchpad, app driven, feature ladden wonder stove didn't feel right. After buying the Speed Queen set, and appreciating the choice more and more after finally getting a chance to use them, well, I wanted the same feeling of solid longevity that the aforementioned wiz bang offerings couldn't impart. And I could get a NXR scratch and dent up in LA for the same price. But NXR is pretty new on the scene, with some scary feed-back on the web about the build quality of the initial units in the market. And, $1,300 is still a lot of money to indulge our preference for a gas range as the late 80's Frigidaire electric is still working as good...err, well, the same as ever.

Enter the so called high end offerings, with their nosebleed price levels. But I was in luck, and a couple of retires had bought a condo and were in the process of gutting it, with plans for a separate cooktop oven arrangement in the new kitchen. They wanted the Thermador out-the-door sooner than later (as I said earlier the ad was over a month old already), so they accepted a fairly low amount for it. Consider the same range, albeit in newer guise, sells from an outfit in LA for $3,000, as last years demo model, before tax(!), and with no delivery offered. And well over $4,000 from a dealer for this years model.

She looks lightly used, even more rarely cleaned, so I can't wait to get her spiffed up.
Pictures to follow...thanks for the help!

*Btw, the last picture was from the ad.

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This post was last edited 01/13/2016 at 07:22
Post# 861575 , Reply# 47   1/13/2016 at 07:09 (950 days old) by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Thermador Professional Range

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Congratulations on scoring a great price on a lightly used TDP range.


Hopefully this range has the X-Low simmer feature on the two left burners that higher end TD gas cook-tops often have. The X-Low simmer feature is a complicated but really cool feature that TD has used for around 20 years on their better gas cook-tops and I have said many if I ever had to have a gas CT it would differently be a TD with this feature, this XLS feature actually allows you to melt and hold chocolate all afternoon or cook an egg on a paper plate with out burning it, I have never seen any other gas CT with this type of control.


This TD range was made by DCS, DCS also makes many of the GE Monogram PRs and they sell ranges under the DCS brand as well. They are heavily built but when you start taking them apart to repair them you quickly find the build quality very lacking. TD-Bosch is also very bad about keeping parts for their appliances available, I am sure that there are many parts that are NLA already for this range.


Overall these are not ranges for people that do a lot of cooking, between the bending over to use the oven and keeping the CT and oven areas clean it is easy to see why the home buyers opted to send it on its way, but their decision to get something better is your gain, Yay.

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