Thread Number: 63516  /  Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
New here... Into the Aussie Hoover (blackstone type) washing machines
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Post# 860880   1/9/2016 at 12:31 (530 days old) by Chlorinedreams (Albany Western Australia)        

Thought I'd jump into this place... Who knew there are others out there that like washing machines....
Come across this forum while searching for an older Hoover machine (620 to Elite 935 or the 1st commander) nothing like the heavy duty wonders that had the blackstone line (good wash bowl, agitator, cast iron gearbox and the hefty SPD-1 motor) seems like these Aussie gems are harder to come by now....

Can't believe no pics of the internals of these exist online (explaining to friend why I bother chasing down a good machine) most ppl think the under baked efforts of the modern era are as good as it gets...

Hope to soon have one soon.... Spotted a commander on the bay, just got to organise freight...





Post# 860891 , Reply# 1   1/9/2016 at 13:03 (530 days old) by Blackstone (Springfield, Massachusetts)        
Greetings

blackstone's profile picture
Glad to hear of an interest in Blackstones from halfway around the world! As you can guess from my username, I am quite familiar with the brand. We had a family business here in Springfield, Mass., as dealers for Blackstones. Check my website for a few photos.
Fred


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Blackstone's LINK


Post# 860984 , Reply# 2   1/10/2016 at 02:22 (529 days old) by Chlorinedreams (Albany Western Australia)        

Yeah... Who knew... Looking through this site I found out that the best of the Hoover top loaders were based on blackstone.... Will have to look into those machines n see the similarities...

I pulled the trigger and bought the commander on eBay (the last of the blackstone based machines) the later commanders got some different (plastic box small motor etc) setup.

Will post pics when I get it


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Chlorinedreams's LINK on eBay


Post# 862146 , Reply# 3   1/16/2016 at 07:50 (523 days old) by Chlorinedreams (Albany Western Australia)        
Hoover 2300L

This is that is in the 2300L tad disappointing hey... Hopefully on Friday I get the commander in.... It'll be sweet

Post# 862267 , Reply# 4   1/16/2016 at 21:01 (522 days old) by mayfan69 (Brisbane Queensland Australia)        
I quite like the BOSS Hoover's

mayfan69's profile picture
To tell you the truth, I quite like the BOSS (Balanced Orbit Suspension System) designed Hoover's like the 2300L in your picture.

Yes, agreed: not as sturdy as the older Hoover's with the cast iron gearbox, but there are still plenty of these BOSS washers working many years after they were introduced.

The suspension system of these washers did win an Australian design award as well.

Cheers
Leon


Post# 863473 , Reply# 5   1/22/2016 at 08:43 (517 days old) by Chlorinedreams (Albany Western Australia)        
Commander is here

The commander come in today.... It's like a fresh breeze in the laundry.... A few pics added

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Post# 866797 , Reply# 6   2/12/2016 at 10:47 (496 days old) by Hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
I just got this off gumtree

hoover525's profile picture


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Post# 866949 , Reply# 7   2/13/2016 at 08:16 (495 days old) by Chlorinedreams (Albany Western Australia)        

Lovely machine... Post a pic of the internals - trying to tell friends the differences.... I could so easy get more if I lived over east.... And machines tend to fare well in Victoria for some reason.... Must be the water I reckon

Through the week I scored 2 Elite machines of the blackstone era...

The older ones had the steel outer bowl. And the lint filter


Post# 869710 , Reply# 8   2/29/2016 at 05:32 (479 days old) by Hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
Hoover 620

hoover525's profile picture
Here you go! Some pics. Steel outer bowl, two-directional pump, spinner hold (held the bowl until water pumped out) and lint filter.

I will upload a vid when I get some wifi


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Post# 869788 , Reply# 9   2/29/2016 at 14:30 (479 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Hi Hoover 525,

Whats the bladder thats attached to the recirc hose? I hvaent seen that before.

Cheers

Nathan


Post# 869881 , Reply# 10   2/29/2016 at 23:24 (478 days old) by Chlorinedreams (Albany Western Australia)        

That locks the gearbox in place in wash mode.... The recirc pump fills it and it expands, pushing the brake arm on top of the gearbox... In spin mode it is drawn back in...

I often wonder how the spin clutches hold on like they do... In the 820/920 series, the pump Darin's the bowl before the main motor cranks into spin mode... Avoiding all that start up drag.


Post# 869914 , Reply# 11   3/1/2016 at 05:06 (478 days old) by Hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
That bladder

hoover525's profile picture
Hi Nate,
Yeah as mentioned it does hold the drum stationary, most importantly so the bowl can empty out before spinning commences. The 600 series saw the introduction of this feature to avoid the redistribution of soil into the washing by commencing spinning whilst draining.


Post# 869915 , Reply# 12   3/1/2016 at 05:14 (478 days old) by Hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        

hoover525's profile picture
The recirc phase engorges the bladder with water, pushing the drum brake on. It's sucked back in when the the pump sucks the water out of it. This happens at when the water is drained from the bowl, creating a vacuum and releasing the brake.

Post# 869935 , Reply# 13   3/1/2016 at 07:53 (478 days old) by Blackstone (Springfield, Massachusetts)        

blackstone's profile picture
That looks very familiar underneath. Early 1970s Blackstone; later versions had the transmission near the base (before they stopped manufacturing in about 1975).

Blackstones did not have that "bladder" to hold the tub in place. Other difference that stands out to me is that the pump is white. I have only seen black plastic pumps.


Post# 869965 , Reply# 14   3/1/2016 at 11:20 (478 days old) by Hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        

hoover525's profile picture
Up until recently here in Australia replacement pumps have been available, but only in white. I think that this may be one of them.

Post# 870111 , Reply# 15   3/2/2016 at 10:15 (477 days old) by Chlorinedreams (Albany Western Australia)        

From what I remember the original pump was yellow kinda moulded plastic... Heck it's been a long time since I seen in a 620

Post# 870224 , Reply# 16   3/3/2016 at 01:51 (476 days old) by Hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
Static pump out vid

hoover525's profile picture
Here's a vid of the static pump out on the 620

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Hoover525's LINK


Post# 879232 , Reply# 17   5/1/2016 at 15:46 (417 days old) by Hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
Quick question Fred

hoover525's profile picture
You mentioned the pump: are they still available Stateside? I am getting a gradually increasing squeal from my pump, so would like to have a backup.
If they are still available, any chance you could hook me up with some details?

Would appreciate it heaps

Erik


Post# 879233 , Reply# 18   5/1/2016 at 15:46 (417 days old) by Hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
Chlorine dreams

hoover525's profile picture
How's the Commander going ?

Post# 879324 , Reply# 19   5/2/2016 at 10:52 (416 days old) by Chlorinedreams (Albany Western Australia)        

It runs great.... Haven't had to do anything to it....

The 940 had to replace tub seal and tub to pump hose

My 930 I replaced the tub seal, and the timer.



Post# 879397 , Reply# 20   5/2/2016 at 21:33 (415 days old) by Blackstone (Springfield, Massachusetts)        
Blackstone Pump

blackstone's profile picture
Erik,

About 6 years ago, I sold the majority of my Blackstone parts inventory to John Lefever (combo52). I don't have any of those pumps left. Check with John if he has any.

What we used to do to increase the lifespan of the pumps is to drill a hole in the plastic housing, above the pulley, and squirt oil into it, so that the oil flows down to the bearing. Also, take the pump apart, and check to see if the rubber impellers have expanded.

Fred


Post# 879661 , Reply# 21   5/5/2016 at 09:05 (413 days old) by Hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
Thanks Fred!

hoover525's profile picture
The pump has started to sieze up. I've pulled it apart; there is nothing obstructing it at the impeller. It seems that the friction is coming from the drive shaft. So I'll try your method of drilling a hole. Just don't want to create a leak!

I have attached pics of the pump - maybe you could take a look and indicate the best place to drill? Really appreciate your help too btw. If you ever need any help from down under please lemme know!

Ps i will try to look up John. Hope he still has a pump (or 3). Can't believe that Hoover Australia sold 4 million of these machines between 1969 and the early 90s and there are almost none left

Baily: guess what? I went to the State library NSW and scanned the entire book on the Hoover factory for you. It was really only a small thing. Will upload soon, or can I send it via FB?

Erik😀


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Post# 879690 , Reply# 22   5/5/2016 at 14:11 (413 days old) by Chlorinedreams (Albany Western Australia)        

Hiya Erik

Thanks for scanning that.... I tried getting it through the library system, but to no avail.

Facebook.com/Chlorinedreams


As for the pump, can the pulley be removed? As this is what I'd do, spray in some crc to help free the seizure remove pulley and slide the impeller and shaft out, clean shaft and bushes. Check / replace seal (if fitted) drill the oil hole re lubricate and reassemble..

As cleaning the shaft and bushes thoroughly will stop it wearing at a rapid rate.

Hope you can recover it, or someone here finds one for you.... If I come across one I'll let you know.



Post# 879764 , Reply# 23   5/6/2016 at 00:06 (412 days old) by hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
Thanks Baily

hoover525's profile picture
Have had it apart and can't get the impeller off the shaft - either it doesn't come off or I don't have the right tools.

So I think I will have to go with the drilled hole and oil. I'm thinking that the pump seal is up near the impeller?

When I tried to take it apart I could see that in the plastic housing is a metal tube and it's in this that the rotating shaft is. That being so, I wonder if drilling a hole in the plastic will be beneficial. Still, I can't tell if the tube goes all the way through up to the impeller. Sounds like I need to experiment a bit but I can't afford to wreck the thing and put the machine out of action.

I emailed the guy Blackstone recommended but haven't heard back yet. Fingers crossed he has a few pumps laying about!


Post# 879792 , Reply# 24   5/6/2016 at 06:51 (412 days old) by Combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Blackstone automatic washer pump

combo52's profile picture
Hi, I got your email I have not had a chance to look and see if I have The water pump you're looking for. I'll try to check this weekend and see if there's a decent one laying around and let you know.

John L.


Post# 879814 , Reply# 25   5/6/2016 at 13:20 (412 days old) by Hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
Thanks John

hoover525's profile picture
Really appreciate you looking into the Blackstone pump for me. I'd be interested in whatever you have - might be able to piece somethings together if you only have non-operational stuff, etc.

Thanks once again!!


Post# 879844 , Reply# 26   5/6/2016 at 21:30 (411 days old) by Blackstone (Springfield, Massachusetts)        

blackstone's profile picture
Erik,

The impeller does not get removed from the shaft. After taking apart the two halves of the pump, and removing the pulley from the bottom of the pump, you can press down on the shaft. Best to use an arbor press with a center punch that is smaller in diameter than the shaft. An arbor press applies a gradual, even pressure, so you won't crack the plastic pump housing. You should be able to remove the shaft/impeller and clean it.

We would drill a hole as noted in the picture, so the oil could go down to the bearing when the pump is installed in the washer.

These pumps were replaced relatively frequently; the rubber impeller expanded or deformed. Hopefully, your problem is just a rusty shaft, so it is an easy rebuild.

Those round rubber belts from the motor to the pump stretch out, too. It should be very tight, almost to the point of not being able to stretch it on the first try.

One more bit advice--since that belt is near the front of the machine, don't push a mop under the machine when it is running.

What part of Sydney are you in? I correspond with a cousin in Hurstville.

Fred


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Post# 879862 , Reply# 27   5/7/2016 at 07:03 (411 days old) by bellalaundry (Hamilton, Canada)        
Umm a little off topic...

bellalaundry's profile picture
Great video, I can see why you like the hoover/blackstone washers. Super spray rinses!

I absolutely love your flooring! Is is "newish" or vintage! I can't think of a cheerier floor to have in a laundry room with vintage machines!

Guy


Post# 879951 , Reply# 28   5/8/2016 at 07:52 (410 days old) by hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
Thanks Fred

hoover525's profile picture
I live in Sydney and Hurstville isn't too far away from me. I'm at Wollstonecraft.

Thanks for the mark up of the pump.

The pump on my machine was replaced in 1999 and doesn't have a rubber impeller, it's plastic. Another point of difference to the pump that you described is that the housing for the drive shaft on my one is metal. A steel tube has been placed inside the plastic of the pump housing and the drive shaft is contained within it. So this makes my set up a little different. If the tube goes up as far as the arrow you indicated, then drilling in to it might be not possible. I'll try it though.

Wow, I can't believe these pumps got changed as frequently as you said and now they are completely unavailable in Australia. Bloody oath!

I've tried to get the pulley off the pump - no luck so far. It seems to be on pretty tight. I also don't have an arbor press, just a regular guy's hand tools. I also don't have any mates with decent tools so I guess I might have to take the bastard somewhere to take it apart ...

I am determined to get the thing going again, so I will. That said, I am very interested in any spares you might have. Oh actually, do you have the work shop manual relating to the pump? I'd be really grateful.

Thanks,
Erik









Post# 879952 , Reply# 29   5/8/2016 at 08:02 (410 days old) by hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
Thanks Guy!

hoover525's profile picture
Yeah that's an original 1976 floor in my laundry. Actually that's the last time the apartment was renovated. It was built in 1967 and had a do up in 76.

I'll get some pics for you guys - the kitchen has a (then) top of the range Custom deluxe range by Frigidaire and some other little interesting things.

Yeah I like the floor; I'm glad you do too :) Yellow and orange are two of my favourite colours :)

Take look at my old Volvo and the Briton's carpet I have through my place ...


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Post# 879956 , Reply# 30   5/8/2016 at 08:08 (410 days old) by hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
Stove

hoover525's profile picture


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Post# 880009 , Reply# 31   5/8/2016 at 17:09 (410 days old) by Blackstone (Springfield, Massachusetts)        

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I'll have to check to see if I have any breakdown manuals for the pump itself. I don't think that Blackstone sold individual components for the pumps--just the entire pump. Interesting that you have a plastic impeller. Maybe those lasted longer than a rubber one.

Of course, you first problem is removing the pulley. Try using a small gear-puller, the kind with the 3 adjustable legs.



Post# 880529 , Reply# 32   5/13/2016 at 04:04 (405 days old) by Hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
I drilled the hole and it's running better

hoover525's profile picture
Thanks for the advice. It's not running perfectly but it's better 😀

Post# 890832 , Reply# 33   7/25/2016 at 05:23 (332 days old) by hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
main plastic tub seal

hoover525's profile picture
just putting it out there: anyone know what the part details are for the MAIN TUB SEAL for the newer top loaders (720-920)?

it is what the drive shaft spins in. My seal has started to perish: there is a squeal on spin and some resistance keeping the drum from accerating to full speed.

Thanks guys :)


Post# 891817 , Reply# 34   7/31/2016 at 11:00 (326 days old) by Chlorinedreams (Albany Western Australia)        
Seal kit

Yah I got a few.... There is a kit that has the seal, retainer, cap and oil felt....

40600459 Seal kit - got from appliance warehouse Australia


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Chlorinedreams's LINK


Post# 891835 , Reply# 35   7/31/2016 at 15:50 (326 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
I know Sydney's

climate is more arid like San Diego, than say Darwin's, so carpet is fine. In south Florida, it's more rare in favor (favour) of ceramic, marble, or granite tile. More time is likely spent out doors even in winter. Here in the great lakes region, sculptured carpeting was very big in the 60's, and 70's, as an alternative to shag. By the 80's, it was plush saxony then berber.

Post# 891857 , Reply# 36   7/31/2016 at 18:33 (326 days old) by Blackstone (Springfield, Massachusetts)        
Picture?

blackstone's profile picture
The link does not show a picture of the seal kit. I was just curious to see what it looks like; if it is the same as what I remember from the Blackstones.


Post# 891861 , Reply# 37   7/31/2016 at 19:17 (326 days old) by Chlorinedreams (Albany Western Australia)        
Seal kit

I have a few of these... Will post a pic of one when I am near it.....

The seal assembly radically changed when they went from metal tub to plastic, the older type had a metal bushing in the seal assembly and was a solid set rubber - effectively top support bearing,

The 800-900 machines have a brace and centred bush assembly that keeps the box/bowl centred. And the seal is 31.7 63.5 10



Post# 892191 , Reply# 38   8/2/2016 at 09:20 (324 days old) by Chlorinedreams (Albany Western Australia)        
Changing the seal

Have done a couple of these in the last few months

Things you will want

Phillips and flat screw drivers

Metric spanners

Socket set with log extension (for agitator removal)

1.8kg mini sledge hammer

Length of thick metal pipe

Lithplex ep2 or similar grease

Engine oil (10w40) or similar

Wet and dry paper 600 grit and 1200 grit

40600459 seal kit

--------------

These machines are getting on in age and things like seals are more likely to surface as things to replace

*** some operations are used with power - do only so if competent, the operation can be done without, but will take a lot longer (mainly shaft preparation for new seal)

Slide machine toward front a bit ~ 8 inches (this will help on top flip back) leave water and drain hoses on (will help cleaning tub if you decide to)

Remove front panel

Remove 2 10mm bolts that secure top assembly to front brace, then can tilt whole top assembly back to wall behind.

Unclip the 4 clips that hold tub top to main tub

Remove rinse dispenser from agitator and using socket set with long extension, unscrew bolt and remove agitator from drive shaft.

Now unbolt 2 stainless bolts that clamp the wash bowl to the outer drive shaft, use flat blade driver to remove wash bowl retainer bar (retainer bar is stainless aswell as the drive shafts and bolts) the wash bowl hub is alloy - over the years the electrolytic reaction can make the next step interesting (1)

Now to try bowl removal.... Back in the day at this point the bowl would easily come loose from the outer drive shaft and trickier ones often broke free after letting get to spin mode then stopping the spin cycle and the brake action vs inertia did the trick.

Now these are older you can try the brake trick or turn bowl clockwise to see if it breaks free from drive shaft.

If not use length of solid pipe and 1.8kg mini sledge hammer.... Apply firm blows evenly across the hub, once bead breaks rotate bowl clockwise whilst lifting.

Once bowl is lifted you can clean tub (if dirty) - I used spray and spin mode on gentle cycle with the tup top sitting in place and scrubbed build up off.... Water supply provides the rinse and the pump got rid of the crap. (This can be repeated till you're satisfied with tub) This helps water run off to be more quicker during spray and spin cycle, reducing chance of foaming build up in this cycle.


*** prep for new seal...........

As these machines have been going for years invariably they will be showing evidence of calcium build up and or electrolytic reactance from the water and whatever chemicals and the natural metallic interference.

All of that on the shaft is bad news for a new seal.... So to prep the shaft I use spray and spin mode (again) though this time on normal cycle, using the 600 grit wet and dry, lightly apply the paper around the shaft after wetting it - this is where having it running is advantageous.

Even shaft coverage is key, once it is free from the mess, finish up with the wet 1200 grit lightly, this will ensure no seal failure upon installation. Also make removal of old parts easier.

Dry up around seal area

Remove old seal assembly - top lid, retainer main seal.

Take care with outer drive shaft and tub surfaces... Use a moderate flat blade mid seal surface and pry it up

Then check shaft surface, using wet and dry paper carefully clean remaining shaft - pack rags on lower side to protect bush from debris....once satisfied, remove rags....

Then place new felt on top of bush... Apply engine oil to this (these are a porous bush and will soak up oil so don't be too stingy with it)

Apply lithplex or similar to inner seal AND outer drive shaft, evenly slide main seal into place (gently and evenly tap into place)

Replace retainer (large plastic ring)

Check that gearbox is fully in braked position (rotate clockwise to check) then slide new cap down till it lightly rests on retainer.... (When in spin mode this is elevated with gearbox, in wash mode it marginalises leakage)

Take wash bowl pit and rinse /dry hub centre. Apply lithplex to shaft surface and outer drive shaft, refer note (1) to make future removal easier

Line wash bowl up to retainer cutout, re install cleaned stainless retainer and raise wash bowl whilst ensuring the retainer locks into position, then evenly and gently tighten retainer till bowl is firmly locked into place, tighten firmly.

Re assemble rest in reverse to disassembly.....


One May want to replace inner shaft seal(agitator to outer drive) at this point - use lithplex on seal surfaces

Regards Baily





Post# 892197 , Reply# 39   8/2/2016 at 09:56 (324 days old) by Chlorinedreams (Albany Western Australia)        
A look at the seal assembly

In the pic the components in the line 32353401 and below make up the kit

Still will post rl pic, they come supplied all in a sealed bag.


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Post# 892207 , Reply# 40   8/2/2016 at 11:22 (324 days old) by Chlorinedreams (Albany Western Australia)        
Blackstone

Not sure if this is identical... But not being out of au I have not seen a blackstone machine irl

The link I've posted is for a seal assembly minus bush... Still yet to look through what I have...are not sure if I got one with or without bush....

Machines in this era were fitted with porous bushes, and it was practise for the better to soak these in oil for a day before install or fit and soak for a while before sending back into service


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Chlorinedreams's LINK


Post# 892218 , Reply# 41   8/2/2016 at 12:34 (324 days old) by Hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
Thanks so much

hoover525's profile picture
I will order the kit asap and get started.

Thank you for the write-up, it is really helpful and the cleaning pointers were good too.

I suppose you know this: placing the fill control switch in Special Woolens in any part of a Normal cycle locks the timer where it is. It also opens both water solenoids if it is only on cold before. So if you want an extreme long spray rinse, put the switch to Special Woolens once spraying has commenced. This will also activate both hot and cold water solenoids for a mixed spray.

The Special Woolens switch is actually like a secret menu in these machines. Turning the switch part way between Special W and either hot or cold also does other things to the timer. Interesting to experiment.

Any extra info or pics on the earlier enamel tub seal would be appreciated too. I confess it wasn't too clear to me what you meant when you described them briefly before.

I'll be taking the spin tub out of my 600 soon for a general inspection and clean up - will take pics.

Thanks again Baily


Post# 892219 , Reply# 42   8/2/2016 at 12:46 (324 days old) by Hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
500 and 600 outer tub seals

hoover525's profile picture
Hey Baily I saw in your second link (reply 40) main tub seal for 500-600 enamel tub machines. I was under the assumption that these had been discontinued? Is that not so? I had better get one of these too.

Also not sure where the porous bush went ...
And do you think my 40 year old bush would still be any good when I need to do this job on my 600? Right now all is well but I like to be ready.

Incidentally the ad says this bush was for 500-700 machines. That's incorrect. The 700's were the first machines to adopt the plastic outer tub and electric pump FYI


Post# 892424 , Reply# 43   8/3/2016 at 21:17 (322 days old) by Blackstone (Springfield, Massachusetts)        
Seal

blackstone's profile picture
Thanks for the photo. The part does look exactly like the Blackstone seal.

One difference--I've never seen one separated from the mount and bearing. They were sold as one part, including the ceramic ring that rides on top. Price was less than $100. Fairly common repair job in the Blackstone machines. The spring inside the rubber would get out of shape, so the ceramic ring would not lay flat , causing leaks. Either that, or the bearing would leak.

Whatever the case, it still required removal of inner tub. Many times corrosion would prevent the agitator from lifting up. The diecast part that held the tub onto the shaft was another potential problem. Sometimes it did not survive the disassembly.

There was no avoiding the repair job--otherwise there was water leaking down the shaft.



Post# 892590 , Reply# 44   8/5/2016 at 06:22 (321 days old) by Chlorinedreams (Albany Western Australia)        
Seal kit

Some pics of the Seal kit assembly

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Post# 892831 , Reply# 45   8/7/2016 at 03:58 (319 days old) by Hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
Kit ordered

hoover525's profile picture
Thanks I placed an order for the newer type seal. Do you by any chance have the p/n for the enamel tub seal?

Here's a pic of an old Aussie laundry in Greenwich, Sydney. The machine is a 1980 Hoover 725


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Post# 892881 , Reply# 46   8/7/2016 at 11:32 (319 days old) by Chlorinedreams (Albany Western Australia)        
Old order numbers

They listed the older assembly as HA075

Post# 912714 , Reply# 47   12/27/2016 at 08:02 by Hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
Rather than HA002?

hoover525's profile picture
Rather than HA002?

BTW Merry Christmas guys.

Yeah I see from the research I've done there is a large rubber block mount at the base of the enamel tub machines, and this is no longer available. However I'm told that it's possible to repurpose it with what is available for plastic tub set ups.

Can I please show you what I have and maybe you can say if it's enough to fix a leak on a 600 (enamel tub old style Blackstone) machine.

Check out the oil spatters inside the washer compared to when I first posted. Is this from the oil in the felt bush leaking out?

Thanks again for all your helpful information


Post# 912715 , Reply# 48   12/27/2016 at 08:06 by Hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
Inside oil spatter pics

hoover525's profile picture
Here is what the inside of my machine looks like after the leak started. Not sure where this oil has come from?

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Post# 912718 , Reply# 49   12/27/2016 at 08:13 by Hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
Here are some pics a friend sent me

hoover525's profile picture
Here are some pics a friend sent me of a 600 series tub seal. Just need to work out how I can use this with the items in the pic I posted before. Thanks

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Post# 912869 , Reply# 50   12/28/2016 at 12:06 by Blackstone (Springfield, Massachusetts)        

blackstone's profile picture
In the picture in reply #49, it shows the complete seal. Can you remove the black rubber center piece from the metal base? Perhaps with an arbor press. If so, you should be able to insert the new piece (upper left of reply #47).

As for the oil splatter, how is the gasket between the 2 halves of the transmission?


Post# 916475 , Reply# 51   1/20/2017 at 06:19 by hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
oil splatter

hoover525's profile picture
Hi Fred,

I pulled the machine apart today as the leak had gotten so bad. The oil spatter was caused by water borne oil dipping on to the top of the transmission and then being distributed on the walls of the machine when it spun.

The gasket's fine. There was grease packed in around the tub seal that came down when it leaked.

Interesting thing is that more than 1/2 of the seal was missing. The spring-loaded rubber part and ceramic disk were not in the machine. Only the lower seal that sits in the metal part of the rubber block was there. Amazed it didn't leak before.

Ii am just wondering where the felt gasket goes. Is it under the main seal or on top of it?

Thanks guys


Post# 916492 , Reply# 52   1/20/2017 at 08:08 by Blackstone (Springfield, Massachusetts)        

blackstone's profile picture
I'm having a difficult time trying to imagine how the machine did not have a waterfall underneath, considering that the ceramic ring was missing. That ring, riding on top of the matching surface of the spring-loaded rubber mount, was what kept the water inside the inner tub; yet allowed for spinning.

I have never seen the felt piece. Even if it were to be used as a spacer, it should have been a waterproof material.

Sounds as if this machine had been taken apart and put back together haphazardly, without the right parts. However, it did seem to work good enough, up to now.



Post# 916703 , Reply# 53   1/21/2017 at 07:13 by Hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
Thanks for that

hoover525's profile picture
Well at least I have all the parts now. Could I ask one more question? How does the ceramic part sit? Rubber side up or down? Thanks.

Post# 916709 , Reply# 54   1/21/2017 at 08:00 by Blackstone (Springfield, Massachusetts)        

blackstone's profile picture
Ceramic side down, so that it rides on surface of the rubber seal.

When installing the ceramic/rubber ring, the rubber will have a tendency to not stay in place, and separate from the ceramic. Use a metal washer to push down on the rubber. This applies even pressure to the rubber, keeping it in place, between the shaft and ceramic.

Do you have any metal washers with the kit? They are used to set the correct height of the spin tub. I am assuming there is a notch in the shaft, which must line up with opening in the agitator mount.

If you need images of this, I could check my service manuals, and scan it in.


Post# 916739 , Reply# 55   1/21/2017 at 10:57 by Hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
Yes please!!

hoover525's profile picture
Thanks Fred, if you have time to scan that I would be very grateful. I was advised to put the rubber side down, and I did. Later today I will put it on the proper way. But those scans would be MOST appreciate.

Thanks again for all your help.

Cheers,
Erik


Post# 916741 , Reply# 56   1/21/2017 at 11:01 by Hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
No metal washers in the kit

hoover525's profile picture
And yes there is a notch the spin tub has to line up on. I'm lucky - my machine hasn't seen much use and there is hardly any electrolytic reaction to the metal.

Apparently the part with the spring-loaded rubber seal and ceramic disk are almost all gone. I'd better grab another one before it's too late.

Regards
Erik


Post# 916744 , Reply# 57   1/21/2017 at 11:08 by Hoover525 (Sydney Australia)        
New 1971 pump

hoover525's profile picture
Hi all, recently I found a used 1971 pump in black rigid plastic. Installed it and it works great. So glad to get that cheap white plastic aftermarket pump out. I'll keep it as a spare

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Post# 916758 , Reply# 58   1/21/2017 at 12:27 by Blackstone (Springfield, Massachusetts)        

blackstone's profile picture
Here are a couple of scans, showing the tub mount.

The reason for having the metal washers is to ensure that, when the collector tub is installed, there will be sufficient pressure on the ceramic disk. The disk must touch the top surface of the spring-loaded rubber seal to make it waterproof. Since the height of the collector tub is not adjustable (it lines up with the notch in the shaft), the addition of metal washer underneath it might be necessary. The service manual does not give this information.

Instead, it gives such "useful" information, like "remove front panel." Duh.




  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size



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