Thread Number: 63714  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
To answer the question "Is rinse aid dispensed in the main wash?"...
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Post# 862871   1/19/2016 at 16:13 (521 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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It would seem the proof is in the pudding, or foam in this case.

For Whirlpool dishwashers at least. I know for sure that the PowerClean and Voyager platforms do because it is shown in the cycle timing diagrams in the tech service sheets. The new Whirlpool doesn't have that shown on its tech manual, only the diagnostics sequences. I figured, after unloading today, that I'd close the detergent cup and let it go empty just to see what the water looked like after the cup snaps open.

I remember a thread recently about when and how the dispenser did its thing, but a few thought it would be ridiculous for rinse aid to be used in the main wash. To me it seems sensible as it helps to further soften the water and most likely keeps soil from sticking back onto dishware. It could also be why I've seen recommendations for all-in-one detergent pacs to turn the dispenser down to its minimal setting if possible to keep from having an overabundance. I can see why. Maybe this is why Finish Quantum is so sudsy?

Mind you, my dispenser is set to 3 because our water leans on the hard side, and with plenty of soil on dishes in every load and detergent all mixed together, I highly doubt suds reach this extreme, but in this case the water had a nice slick feeling to it. I set it just to Normal, and it ran a prewash, so any residue would have been plenty rinsed out. I also opened it before the drain and saw not a bubble, just clear water, so that takes care of the question of remaining residue. Surprisingly though, with this amount of foam, the pump didn't gasp for air, and the wash action inside still sounded plenty forceful.





Post# 862875 , Reply# 1   1/19/2016 at 16:28 (521 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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My machine dispenses it in the final rinse.  The solenoid has a faint high-frequency whine that pulses several times (more or less depending on the set dosage) so it's obvious when that's happening if one is aware of the sound.


Post# 862895 , Reply# 2   1/19/2016 at 17:31 (521 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Makes sense why I've seen similar foam in mine during main wash. 


Post# 862896 , Reply# 3   1/19/2016 at 17:33 (521 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
At Lease I've Learned Something

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I always wondered what would happen if rinse aid interfered with the wash - if all it does is soften water - then it doesn't hurt but it helps. I never knew mine dispensed during the wash. I keep mine on the minimal setting since I use Finish Powerball....

I'm always PARANOID when filling the rinse aid dispenser because it gives this warning "DO NOT OVERFILL" and I'm wondering what's gonna happen if I overfill it? LOL


Post# 862899 , Reply# 4   1/19/2016 at 17:49 (521 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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Fascinating.
Does anyone know why and if it 'really' helps?
I'm pretty sure none of my past or present GE machines or WP Durawash machines did this. All their rinse aid dispensers have a distinct sound, and would only fire to my knowledge in the final rinses.


Post# 862902 , Reply# 5   1/19/2016 at 17:50 (521 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Our Kenmore rotoracks opened the rinse aid dispenser at the same time the detergent dispenser opened for the main wash. 


Post# 862917 , Reply# 6   1/19/2016 at 18:29 (520 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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I know for sure most all Whirlpool built machines release in both the main wash and final rinse. That could be strictly electronic models though, so I'm not sure about the DuraWash. I believe our portable GE Nautilus back home years ago released during the main wash as well. One of the many fateful times my mom would attempt to use the poor thing and forget to turn on the faucet, and of course I came into the kitchen to hear the motor just idling away. One of those times I do remember opening the door and smelling that telltale odor of the heating element on, and by that time the detergent cup had popped open, and there was a trickle of blue coming from the rinse aid dispenser. Who knows if that was by design though. I don't remember that dispenser ever having a leak or problem, but I also despised that machine already that I didn't care to investigate.

Oh the arguments my dad and I had over that dishwasher. Of course, I was just a kid that couldn't possibly know squat about anything, so how could I be right about the pump gasping for air because of a clogged faucet? Ugh. *end rant*


Post# 862919 , Reply# 7   1/19/2016 at 18:35 (520 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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I don't think rinse aid (water, surfactants, alcohol, sometimes citric acid and other ingredients) does a lot to boost the wash performance, if at all - but it doesn't seem to hurt either. I guess the dishwasher dispenses rinse aid during the wash due to the design of the dispenser. I wonder if it would open the main wash cup during the final rinse again?

On my dishwasher, the rinse aid dosage is set electronically. I can hear the dispenser release it in short pulses during the final rinse; each pulse being 1 ml. Just before the dispensing, the pump slows down a little for about two minutes.


Post# 862921 , Reply# 8   1/19/2016 at 18:37 (520 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
my dishwasher

No wonder why my rinse aid dispenser clicks during main wash.

Post# 862922 , Reply# 9   1/19/2016 at 18:43 (520 days old) by retro-man (nashua,nh)        

I have notice on both of my Whirlpools that the dispenser opens during the wash and rinse cycles. I thought oh that can't be. Oh well, I am not the only one. lol

Jon


Post# 862932 , Reply# 10   1/19/2016 at 19:26 (520 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
@ Andrew

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That detergent/rinse aid dispenser on your new WP is NO JOKE! It looks they have really improved them

Post# 862962 , Reply# 11   1/19/2016 at 22:19 (520 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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@Mark - It is quite pretty! :D I was skeptical at first but I actually like it much better. It's much deeper too, actually deeper than the stainless of the door that it sits on, which is much better for tablets, especially as round as Cascade pacs are.

The only thing I would say I miss about the old dispenser design is that characteristic "pop" of the dispenser door when you first open the machine after a cycle. The Maytag didn't do it because of the tiered rack, though it did make a cool thump when opening, but the Whirlpools always had that unique little "feature" that let you know "These have definitely been washed" when the door was open.


Post# 862970 , Reply# 12   1/20/2016 at 00:32 (520 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        
on my '97 Jetclean

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I know the same wax motor opens both because I had to change it once. Not sure about the KDI23's mechanism.

Post# 863047 , Reply# 13   1/20/2016 at 10:02 (520 days old) by cuffs054 (GA)        

This must be a recent change, yes? My KM UltraClean II dumps the rinse aid during the last rinse. The dispenser makes a distinct noise.

Post# 863098 , Reply# 14   1/20/2016 at 17:02 (520 days old) by seedub (South Texas Hill Country)        

I concur, and appreciate your clearing up the mystery. My new WP, installed August 2015 has foam present immediately after the wash portion if a cycle.




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