Thread Number: 64413  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
Frigidaire DW motors
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Post# 870449   3/4/2016 at 09:33 (2,946 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
I never knew this, but Frigidaire use universal brush motors for their pump drive. Does this apply to all Frigidaire dishwashers or just some of them? Do 2016 models also use this type of motor?


Starting at 5:17










Post# 870454 , Reply# 1   3/4/2016 at 10:02 (2,946 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
re; chopper blade,

Most machines don't even have one anymore because of the noise they made in pump outs.
That Frgidaire looks simple, but also cheaply designed. At least it was able to be fixed.


Post# 870457 , Reply# 2   3/4/2016 at 10:21 (2,946 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Quality

chetlaham's profile picture
I guess if one had to choose between GE and Frigidaire it would be GE?

Post# 870458 , Reply# 3   3/4/2016 at 10:22 (2,946 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

johnb300m's profile picture
Yeah I really like how Frigidaire is still keeping the chopper blade around. Designed right, they're NOT noisy.
Such hogwash.


Post# 870527 , Reply# 4   3/4/2016 at 16:10 (2,945 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
chopper blades

How many chopper blades do the frigidaires have? What are they made of?

Post# 870542 , Reply# 5   3/4/2016 at 17:14 (2,945 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Jerome,

it has one, as the photo of the stainless steel blade depicts.
Quality and GE? Of course, I paid $800 for my GE profile in 2011.
It has the Prihana TR blade. I barely hear it. In fact, my machine runs at about 50 db. I added a little insulation in the toe kick because I glued cabinet finish wood to it so it wouldn't rattle at all.


Post# 870571 , Reply# 6   3/4/2016 at 20:41 (2,945 days old) by washman (o)        
Does it really matter?

In either case, I'd bet the motors are made in China so as to keep the price down so the cheap ass consumer can get it at Lowes or someplace for the "best possible price", along with 90 days same as cash. Et cetera.

Post# 870576 , Reply# 7   3/4/2016 at 21:19 (2,945 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        
Vietnam

on a damaged 2011 GE dishwasher I stripped,the main motor was made in Vietnam :)the drain motor was made in china.

Post# 870580 , Reply# 8   3/4/2016 at 21:55 (2,945 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
quality matters

I like my dishwashers to have quality chopper blades in them. My whirlpool point voyager has 2 stainless steel blades in the food grinder so tough food particles get pulverized. It does matter. I am about quality, not quantity.

Post# 870584 , Reply# 9   3/4/2016 at 22:55 (2,945 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
Induction motors are significantly better then brush motors. Yes a very poor induction motor might fail before a good brush motor, but in my experience GE has some of the best motors for any modern dishwasher. The redesigned motors from 2000 are still chugging along. Comparing a brush motor to a GE quiet power motor is imo a no brainier.

If Frigidaire is still using brush motor on their DW I do not think that looks good in terms of reliability.


Post# 870666 , Reply# 10   3/5/2016 at 09:51 (2,945 days old) by Johnb300m (Chicago)        

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Well you'll be crying in your Cheerios to hear that GE and Elux now source their little brush motors from Johnson Elrctric. A Chinese firm with an English name.
They're AC fed, but have a built in AC/DC converter and permanent magnets.
All make the same distinctive brush 'whine'.
Though they seem pretty powerful thus far.


Post# 870668 , Reply# 11   3/5/2016 at 09:54 (2,945 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
True Chetaham;

A motor is as good as its bearings, rare earth induction magnets, or armature windings and carbon brushes.
On a copper wound motor, all it takes is one broken spot to cause failure.


Post# 870672 , Reply# 12   3/5/2016 at 10:24 (2,945 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
GE motors

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Wait, I thought they were still induction on the low end GEs?

Post# 870680 , Reply# 13   3/5/2016 at 11:54 (2,945 days old) by Johnb300m (Chicago)        
GE's induction motors

johnb300m's profile picture
Chet, you're 100% correct.
The very low end standard tub GE machines still use the now "old" (aprox. 1/8hp) induction "quiet" motor.
I believe they're now made in China and Vietnam.
Sadly....they used to be made in the USA and Germany back in the 'good old days.'
They're still a great motor though. Probably my favorite.


Post# 870682 , Reply# 14   3/5/2016 at 12:18 (2,945 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Ok, few, thats a relief. :) I dont think Id live through a BOL GE dishwasher with a vacuum cleaner motor lol. And that whine noise would also ruin any quiet the motor might have.

Post# 870768 , Reply# 15   3/6/2016 at 00:49 (2,944 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Rectified DC perm magnet motors are used in all kinds of machines these days----From --dishwashers-disposers,power tools,sewing machines,electric lawnmowers,the list goes on!!!Neodonyium magnets have improved these motors-making them more powerful in less space.The perm magnet is the feild-or stator-the armature or rotor is fed power with brushes as on a universal motor.Now "digital" SR motors are replacing perm mag ones in some applications.The SR motors are more expensive-they require a circuit board with the digital electronics to run the SR motor.

Post# 870799 , Reply# 16   3/6/2016 at 07:49 (2,944 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Correct Rex,

SR motors need a microprocessor to control the sine waves.

Post# 870814 , Reply# 17   3/6/2016 at 10:08 (2,944 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
frigidaire dishwasher pumps

What types of wash pumps do the frigidaires use from the BOL to the TOL models?

Post# 870849 , Reply# 18   3/6/2016 at 14:31 (2,944 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
motors,

I do not know about Frigidaire, since I know of so many problems with them.
I'd never buy one.
Throw good money after bad, or do it right the first time.
As my dad used to say, buy a good machine, take care of it, and it takes care of you. Whirlpool, Kitchen Aid, Kenmore by Whirlpool, GE.
Unless you can afford a high end Asko, Miele or Bosch.


Post# 870926 , Reply# 19   3/7/2016 at 00:10 (2,943 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Actually SR motors DO NOT use sine waves-they use a square wave pulse to the stator windings.The SR motor rotor is a cogged laminated iron-no windings of any sort.The square wave pulses magentize the rotor "cogs" on opposite sides of the rotor.As the sequence continues-the motor rotor rotates.And these motors can work like on a wide range of square wave pulse frequencies-then a wide speed range.The width of the wave can determine the torque of the motor.The concept of these was derived a century ago-but took modern tech to make the motor work.The board converts the sine or even DC input power to variable frequency and width square waves to work the motor.If you tried to run the SR motor on sine wave power-it would probably burn up.Cordless Dyson vacuums use these motors-their boards run from the DC power of the vacuums batteries.For AC powered appliances the incoming AC is rectified and converted to the pulses to run the motor.Thermomix blenders are an example of AC powered SR motor.New Rainbow E2 vacuum cleaners use SR motors.Also the motor has "position indicator" windings to feedback to the board so the square wave pulses can be fired in proper sequence.

Post# 870948 , Reply# 20   3/7/2016 at 04:57 (2,943 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Rex,

thanks for the tutoring. I did not know that.
I am only familiar with the C-sine type of DC motor in miniature.
A few of my Marklin ho scale locomotives have them.
They run so smooth at low speed.
As they were very costly to make, commencing with the recession, they changed the design to a compact can style, and at first there were some problems with pcb board compatability. This explains it maybe.
Note that the Marklin ho is a three rail 16 volt A/C system, so even their armature and commutator older motors were rectification equipped since the early 90's for digital operation.
Now they even have RFID recognition chips. As soon as a loco is placed on the rails, the control unit screen or your computer screen shows which one it is.
There are two rail DC systems also for 12 volt 2 rail DC.


Post# 871626 , Reply# 21   3/9/2016 at 21:37 (2,940 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
frigidaire pumps

I noticed that the BOL model frigidaires have a single speed pump while the TOL models have a variable speed pump. Why is that?

Post# 871627 , Reply# 22   3/9/2016 at 21:44 (2,940 days old) by Johnb300m (Chicago)        

johnb300m's profile picture
Uhhh, it's like that because Frigidaire's marketing group wants their TOL units to have more flexible features so they can charge more money.
That's what makes them TOL.


Post# 871671 , Reply# 23   3/10/2016 at 06:06 (2,940 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Frigidaire is

under the upcharge of Electrolux. Entry level professional line, Electrolux, and Icon.

Post# 875651 , Reply# 24   4/4/2016 at 21:36 (2,914 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Bosch

chetlaham's profile picture
Question... Are Bosch dishwasher motors related to GE's BOL motors? The stator and back molding holding the bearings looks exactly like GE's, just made of plastic. See 4:50:







Post# 875652 , Reply# 25   4/4/2016 at 21:40 (2,914 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Better one

chetlaham's profile picture
4:52:







Post# 877077 , Reply# 26   4/14/2016 at 14:39 (2,905 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Oh, to add

chetlaham's profile picture
It looks like you guys are right. I found this thread with a new GE dishwasher (congrats btw :) ) and the motor looks identical to Frigidaire's.



www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/T...


Post# 877135 , Reply# 27   4/14/2016 at 22:25 (2,904 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
I always learn so much from these discussions

panthera's profile picture

Especially about the changing motors which power so many of our vintage appliances.

This is a big part of what makes this site so fun.


Post# 877187 , Reply# 28   4/15/2016 at 13:04 (2,904 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Knowledge

chetlaham's profile picture
This place is bar none. :) Really eye opening.



As for variable speed pumps... one theory I have might be low water ususage. Some ultra high end machines from the past would actually cycle the motor every couple of seconds. The sump would fill, the motor would rev up sending water to the arms and then it would coast down for water to re-enter the sump. When it did it would rev back up again. If the motor rain continuously 2/3 of the time it would be pulling in air.


Frigidaire, at least their low end models over come this by using a diverter so only one wash arm can run at a time.


Post# 881394 , Reply# 29   5/18/2016 at 23:01 (2,870 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
frigidaire pump rpm

So, I guess the pump on the Frigidaire fbd2400kw spins at about 3600 rpm's if I'm not mistaken. Please correct me. I also heard, however, that they spin at either 3100 or 3200 rpm's. Please correct me.


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