Thread Number: 65202  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
Dead Bosch - New AEG 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 878177   4/22/2016 at 12:10 (2,923 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

You know, casual day going, starting the DW as you leave for school, then you come home to a dishwasher full of nice, freshly completly UNWASHED DISHES. URGGGGHHHHHH.

So far, filling and draining works, the relai for the pump as well as the diverter valve is working. Still have to pull it out of the cabinet and check if the capacitor is just blown, but I doubt it. If a cap of this size blows, you'd recognize it without opening the machine.
But given that I could replace the capacitor for 20€ and without takeing much apart vs. 180€ for a new pump which would have me dismantel the whole machine, its worth the half hour.
(Current machine is a Bosch SRI45T35EU/18.)


Given though the racks start to rust (machine is from June 2011, sad thing), the drainpump is getting louder, and it was only 350€ new, we will most likely get a new DW.
And, given price and delivery situation, it will most likely be an AEG (ELux) F65412IM0P delivered by redcoon.de.
The AEG has 5 programms, the ProClean washarm, and thanks to a promotion going on, for only a little less then 500€, with 5 years warranty, the DW will be delivered straight to our kitchen, they will take out the old DW, put in the new one, mount the facia panel, connect it up, check it and take away the old one. Quite a good deal (given final exams on my side and a lot of work on my parents side are comming up).
Delivery would be in about 2 weeks (life without DW = HELL ON EARTH).

I know these AEGs aren't the greatest DW by any means, neither for cleaning or drying. The german Test-magazin (Consumer Reports, basicly) rated it only 3,3 grade (C-), but with our usage pattern and loading habbits, its more or less a challenge to fail in terms of results.


I'll pull out the machine tomorrow afternoon, check the cap and update you all by then. I'm just so annoyed and tired right now; I'll take the biggest bubble bath in history.

Have a good day
Henrik





Post# 878251 , Reply# 1   4/23/2016 at 03:20 (2,922 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Burned pump

 So I got arround takeing it out just now.

The cap seems fine, the punp however has either gotten pretty dusty or there is something that looks like a burned patch on its windings (in the right lower corner of the windings, basicly, but it dosen't show up on my phones cam).

The first 2 pictures are the side of the machine with insulation and a pressure exchange hose from the tub to the outside.
Picture 3 is the side panel ("hinged" in the bottom, clipped in the back and top, hold on by 2 screws in the front).
Pictures 4, 5 and 6 show the recirculation pump to the left and the heater to the right.
Picture 7 ist the recirculation pump. The little burned patch / bit of dirt is visible right below the right plastic structural support.
Picture 8 is the visibly intact cap.
Picture 9 is a side view of the pump. Its actually pretty compact, but you have to remove the whole base to get to its mounts. And it wouldn't fit through the side opening either.


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Post# 878446 , Reply# 2   4/25/2016 at 05:46 (2,920 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Well, the thread-headline is outdated...

 The AEG went out of stock before we could order it...

We got a Bosch SPI65T75EU instead. Was the next best thing... About 100 bucks more, with extended warranty and deliverey just like the AEG.

Post# 878453 , Reply# 3   4/25/2016 at 06:32 (2,920 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
As much as I think the ProClean spray arm is an interesting idea, AEG/Electrolux dishwashers don't seem to get much love anymore. The model you were considering had so-so reviews on Amazon, StiWa and even AEG's own homepage.

The Bosch seems really nice and has flexible cycles and options.

Post# 878479 , Reply# 4   4/25/2016 at 08:24 (2,920 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Congratulations on the Bosch! Hopefully this one lasts longer than the one you had. I think you should count your blessings that the AEG was out of stock. I've heard nothing but bad things about AEG dishwashers lately. They're not like my Favorit 6060 anymore! Hope to hear how the new dishwasher works for you.

Post# 878488 , Reply# 5   4/25/2016 at 09:32 (2,920 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Longer then the last one

 Honestly, the dishwasher is the only applaince in our household that get's close to 0 care, even from me. And given it washes for 4 people (this one served 5 people over half its life) in such a small space, its lifetime was OK. Not superb, but okay.

I heared bad things about the AEG as well. I used one once at a party and it held a ton, but it was just ok in terms of usage in my opinion.

I'm thrilled for the new cycles and options. Though they'll probably never see much of use.

Post# 879045 , Reply# 6   4/29/2016 at 18:15 (2,916 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Shipping chaos

 So, when we ordered the Bosch, it said it would ship in 4 days, meaning delivery in 7 days, plus or minus. At least we guessed so.

Then, just hours after we placed the order, the shipping time has been changed to 2 weeks and redcoon contacted us about the new shipping time and that due to our payment choice, our order falls into the new shipping time window. We accepted that and didn't bother untill today.

During the night, we got an E-Mail with a shipping confirmation, including a DHL order tracking number and link and a note that said we would be contacted to fix a shipping time window.

But to this moment, the tracking does not work, redcoon (the online shop we ordered from btw) only confirms that the order went to DHL for shipping and DHL only points towards the order tracking system and that it takes up to 6 hours for order tracking to work.

Kind of annoying, considering the crazy week ahead in our family (birthdays, relatives visiting, my A-level exams and my dads new job) and zero idea if DHL takes only a few days to ship or maybe weeks due to the instalation services we booked.

Base line: Ordering online yeah, shipping BUUUH.

Post# 879314 , Reply# 7   5/2/2016 at 09:21 (2,913 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Why DHL sucks sometimes

 So, the fog is cleared:

After the DW left the redcoon warehouse on Thursday morning, it arrived at the main distribution center on friday morning, but due to some technical difficulties, that DW disappeared out of the order system after it "left" the hub, thus, the shipping got delayed and the tracking system freaked out.

It got to our local distribution center today, and then we had to settle for delivery on friday (because for some reason, they first saved Wednesday as delivery date, but changed that).

Picture shows the up to date tracking, for those who can make something out of it.

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Post# 879809 , Reply# 8   5/6/2016 at 12:11 (2,909 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Finaly!

 It's here. You know how one hates setting a delivery time frame of 4 hours and then missing that. But whatever.

The delivery guys were *almost* competent. They mounted the front (cleverly reusing the old, already installed mounts which are identical), pusshed it in, turned it up (these machines are designed to simply be set to a height where they push against the work surface, makeing them self leveling), screwed it in place, set the tension of the sprigns (to achieve A++ rating, on the Eco cycle without options, the door just pops open at the end, falling into a open position which is adjustable).
Only 2 things: They didn't install the childlock for the door (which we don't need) and the kickplate of our kitchen is ever so slightly to high, causing the slightes, but noticeble scrape when you open the door. Nothing which can't be fixed with a few short strokes with some sanding paper.

Further impressions so far:
These VarioFlexPlus baskets are so useless! At least to us. Probably gonna remove some of the plastic cup shelfes. As we did with our old DW.
The EU is annoying sometimes; our dishwasher presets to Eco every time you turn it on.
This pump has power. It is currently draining its first wash water, and the main wash made some noise. But its loaded with mostly plastics right now. The now going interim rinse is slightly less noisy. Drain is barely audible. Funny enough, I just heared the rinse aid dispense though. Has a weirdly silent click noise to it.
The cycle I chose was Eco, VarioSpeedPlus and Hygenic Rinse Plus. Cycle time was 1:19h. Interestingly, this cycle does not execute a prewash, it added the detergent after 2 minutes
Cycle times are reasonable. 1:20 for the short Auto, 2:30 for the medium and 2:15 for the intensive Auto cycles. 3:15 for Eco, 29 minutes for Short and 15 for a Rinse only. All cycles at factory default.

First real load will be Sundays Grill Party Cleanup.
I'm open for questions and I'll try to shoot some clips next week.

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Post# 879816 , Reply# 9   5/6/2016 at 13:48 (2,909 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
Finally

 logixx's profile picture
Same here: Eco + Speed = no prewash. Your cycle times seem reasonable indeed.

Also, I did try my Eco cycle for the first (because I am testing out these new Somat Maschinenpfleger Tabs) and was semi-shocked to see that ot partially drained the cold prewash, dropped the detergent and continued to wash at the lowest pressure... until I cancelled the cycle and switched over to auto + speed.

Post# 879818 , Reply# 10   5/6/2016 at 14:05 (2,909 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Ugh

 Not only my spelling is off today (my final written A-Level exam today really made me tired), but if our machines Eco-cycle acts the same way, that would be really sad. The idea of a kind-of AutoOpen system was really convenient; with our usage pattern, the machine often sits several hours before anybody even opens it, and using this time to air dry seems really neat. However, if performance lacks, well, that would really suck.

Post# 879839 , Reply# 11   5/6/2016 at 19:57 (2,909 days old) by Joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA)        

joe_in_philly's profile picture
Congrats on your new machine! It is interesting that you select the temperature of the auto cycle. On current US Bosch machines, I have the understanding that there is one auto cycle, and it will vary the water temperature depending on the load.

Post# 879859 , Reply# 12   5/7/2016 at 04:43 (2,908 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Basically, you select the soil level of the load (pots/pans, mixed load or glasses) and the auto cycles do the fine tuning. Our previous Bosch worked like that and I never used any of the other cycles - except for the occasional quick wash.

On the US machines, cycles such as Heavy, Normal and Glasses also vary the temp - it's not indicated on the control panel, however.

Post# 879866 , Reply# 13   5/7/2016 at 07:24 (2,908 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Not yet sure, but it appears to me that the more intensive and less intensive Auto cycles are simmilar to the normal Intensive and Glass cycles, just with slightly adjustable temps and the soil-dependent prewashes.

Now some pictures. (Though, since the last Win10 Phone Update, my camera won't focus. At all.)
The sump is definitely smaller, and the optical sensor is now exposed.
These upper spray arms show how optimized they are for low water washing. 4 jets upwards, one of them angeled for propelling the arm, one faned out for corner coverage. Only 2 sprays down, one slot-shaped further out, one really small hole close to the center.



Sorry for the dirty dishes. Mothers day coming up.

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Post# 879893 , Reply# 14   5/7/2016 at 14:09 (2,908 days old) by whatsername (Denver, CO)        

whatsername's profile picture
Very cool. I love 18 inch machines and wish they were more popular.

Post# 879908 , Reply# 15   5/7/2016 at 18:14 (2,908 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

While they are certanly no longer the smaller, less powerfull brother of full size machines, if I could, I'd trade for a full size machine any day.
You can adapt to the smaller space verry well, but even for single person situations, today, it is most likely cheaper to get 10 sets of dinner plates and cuttlery and run a full size machine only once a week instead of an 18" twice. Especially given both use the exact same amount of water.

Post# 879968 , Reply# 16   5/8/2016 at 11:03 (2,907 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
First "real" load

 So, I did not take any pictures with family visiting and such.

The load was pretty full, the lower rack was 100% full with plates and the cuttlery basket, the upper rack was pretty full with a big serving bowl, a small pot, 3 small bowls and some cups. Note here: loading was a tad more complicated due to the slightly shallower basket.
Soil level was light to medium, lots of fresh soil, some fatty stuff, and lots of strawberry from some prep dishes.

Cycle was the standard Auto 45-65C / 110-150F cycle. Estimated cycle time 2:30h.
I did not recognize a prewash; by the 30 minute mark the detergent tablet had mostly dissolved. One interim rinse, final rinse, and a slightly longer dry phase then I'm used to (~30 minutes).
Total cycle time was about 2 hours.

The results were close to perfection as usual. Only 1 bit of parsley stuck where a soup plate and a dessert plate touched as well as a few strawberry seeds between the 3 small bowls in the top rack.

Post# 880170 , Reply# 17   5/10/2016 at 08:48 (2,905 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
2nd load of today

 The clips of the first load are still uploading, so I'll report my second load findings.

Load was our range hood filters, a backing tray and another oven shelf. Thus, I installed the spray head for big items.
Cycle was intensive Auto with IntensiveZone. Cycle time estimated was 2:20, it took about 2 hours in reality.

The sensors skipped the prewash, released the tab 10 minutes into the cycle and heating started.
The IntensiveZone simply added 5 minutes of wash time in the lower rack, and did not increase the spray pressure, simply due to the fact that the cycle seems to default to max pressure.
However, the main wash was fully executed, it only cut of about 10 minutes at the end of the main wash which I relate to the lack of the prewash.
After the main wash, the machine executed a pretty elaborate filter flush as well as a water softner regeneration sequence.
After the first interim rinse was drained, the second rinse started with a complete refill. Then, after a few minutes, the machine skipped ahead into the final rinse, dispensing rinse aid. So, there was only 1 instead of 2 interim rinses.
Drying time was something like 24 minutes.

Results were perfect, as expected.

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Post# 880179 , Reply# 18   5/10/2016 at 10:27 (2,905 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
First load of today

 These are actually the after pictures. Btw that one picture is how the door is left after the cycle ends. Clips soon!

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Post# 880186 , Reply# 19   5/10/2016 at 10:50 (2,905 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        














I did not recognize any kind of drain before the detergent was released (round about 10 minutes into the main wash as well).
Pressure seemed lower for sure, but I'm uncertain if it actually was the lowest possible level.
Heating started at about 2:30 on the timer.

Results were fine, but I wouldn't use this cycle for anything tougher then such loads.

Post# 883560 , Reply# 20   6/5/2016 at 08:39 (2,879 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Eco-Drying




My mum started a load today and forgot to change the cycle to Auto, so it was an Eco 50C/120F run. Cought the so called Eco-Drying phase.
The Eco cycle breaks down into a pre-wash that appears to be sensor dependent (no drain, partial drain or complete water change), a ~90 minute main wash, a short interim rinse and a relatively short final rinse that seems to lack any temperature hold phase. Max temp there is 60C/140F.
The drying phase is about an hour long and is ended with the shown door opening routine, which is executed with 1 minute on the timer and an immediate shutdown afterwards.
Drying results are as usual, though there is a lot more condensation all around the interior as well as along the door edge.

This cycle is a good option for fresh soils or gentle yet effective cleaning of fragile or light items.

Post# 883569 , Reply# 21   6/5/2016 at 10:08 (2,879 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
I get the impression

 panthera's profile picture
That B/S/H has taken quite a step forward in using their logic and sensors with this series.
I hope it runs for your family for a very long time.
A-Level - I didn't realize you were so young. Taught English for MBA students and English for the Natural Sciences in Munich at the (formerly) Fachhochschule for decades, wish my students had had your command of English.

Post# 883611 , Reply# 22   6/5/2016 at 18:48 (2,879 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
>wish my students had had your command of English.

Well...it could be argued that the students having less command of English did represent job security for the people teaching English!

Post# 883647 , Reply# 23   6/6/2016 at 06:08 (2,878 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Offtopic

 Actually, even though I'm part in some kind of highly-talented schooling programm and am surrounded by people that are beyond smart, verry few actually speak/write english on an intuitive level.

I'm verry lucky to be a good speaker and feeling verry "home" in the english language.
And even if you speak the littlest bit of english, you are way more employable and in the end better of. At least here in Europe.
I have a close friend who aced the test for the officer career in the german army but got rejected simply because he made his A-levels in Latin and not in english.

Though our school system is far from perfect, it at least is a good chance for everybody to learn other languages...



Post# 883658 , Reply# 24   6/6/2016 at 08:04 (2,878 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
Off-topic, again

 logixx's profile picture
It's very, not verry. 😜

Post# 883665 , Reply# 25   6/6/2016 at 08:35 (2,878 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Some people just have a knack for languages

 panthera's profile picture

It's called 'intelligence'.

You have it.
Post# 883668 , Reply# 26   6/6/2016 at 08:52 (2,878 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

But not very much... Lucky me my final english exam tomorrow is oral and not written!

But fun aside, I know some really intelligent people who have nothing going for languages.


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