Thread Number: 66224  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Nit picking a washing machine. 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 888208   7/5/2016 at 10:10 (2,845 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Hi folks, I want to know what features the almost perfect washer should have. We're focused on a super compact model, that can be portable and easily stored in a closet.

What i want to know, exactly, are those details that make a difference to understand better the American habits and consumers.

For example, in one of the models tested, the power cord was too short, considering the machine is designed to be used in a kitchen, in front of the sink and the cord wouldn't reach the power outlet as most (if not almost all) homes in the US don't have an outlet right behind the sink, but several inches to one of the sides.

I'll love if you could help me finding those little things that could be improved to make a washer even better and make the final consumer even more satisfied.

Of course, some of you may end up saying that the washer must have a spin drain like a Frigidaire Unimatic or a boil wash cycle or any other thing that can't be done due to the regulations. Please note that there are several things that I'd love if a modern washer could have but they're simply impossible.

Price is also another concern. It has to be affordable for the average consumer that lives in a super small home. And the competition is tight with all those small companies selling chinese crap that won't last a year.

Thank you all for the help.




Post# 888387 , Reply# 1   7/6/2016 at 09:27 (2,844 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Guys? Please...

Post# 888399 , Reply# 2   7/6/2016 at 12:13 (2,844 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Ok, here's my opinion

 panthera's profile picture
Cord and hoses long enough and easy to attach.
Option for real hot water, not tempered.
Option for real rinsing.
Lint filter that works and is easy to clean
High speed spin.
Bleach and water softener dispensing.
Hope that helps.


Post# 888769 , Reply# 3   7/9/2016 at 15:39 (2,841 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
I assume we are talking toploader here, like the one you got?

Post# 888776 , Reply# 4   7/9/2016 at 16:15 (2,841 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

beekeyknee's profile picture
To nit pick a thread, it's not impossible to produce a decent washing machine, it's been regulated out of existence by bureaucrats and bean counters at corporations. I understand what you meant though.

Post# 888936 , Reply# 5   7/11/2016 at 05:42 (2,839 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Even in the past

 when laundry machines were better, they still broke. My father repaired them for 33 years.

Post# 888937 , Reply# 6   7/11/2016 at 05:42 (2,839 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Even in the past

 when laundry machines were better, they still broke. My father repaired them for 33 years.

Post# 888938 , Reply# 7   7/11/2016 at 05:43 (2,839 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

I wanted to ignore this thread, but only because I didn't really think that I'd have anything to contribute. (I can't sleep, so I might as well post.)

Back when I was living in a condo, I was looking for just the kind of washer you were talking about. A compact washer which could fit in a closet. I wanted to run water lines and a drain to the machine but also wanted it to dry my clothes as well. Years later I'd learn that condensing dryers do just that, without needing a vent. Back then, I wasn't too fussy.. I just wanted it to wash my clothes in a reasonable amount of time, without a control panel which was too complex to use.

So, I'm not sure if you are talking about a front loader or a top loader....

What comes to mind if you are actually talking about top loaders:

1. A Filter-Flo style lint filter mechanism. I think this would accommodate dog and cat owners who have problems with pet fur on their clothes. Nothing works better than a Filter-Flo style lint filter for pet hair and I can attest to that. Right now, there is nothing on the market anymore, so I think this would be a big advantage over the competition.

2. Some kind of in-tub heater which could boilwash clothing. You mentioned earlier in your post that it couldn't be done, but Samsung already has something on the market that does this. More to the point, the washer is being sold as a machine specifically made for mothers who use cloth diapers. I think that there is a market for these machines and I bet that a competing model could be made which could be made for cheaper which could do the same thing.

3. Combined with #2, I'd like to see a combination Euro and North American style temperature selector with some selections using Automatic Temperature Control and others just using the tap without ATC, i.e. Tap Cold, 10C (Cold) 20C (Cool), 30C (Warm), 40C (Very Warm), 50C (Hot), (Tap Hot), 60C (Very Hot), 95C (Boilwash)

4. A very high speed spin system. I'd like to see a washer which would spin the clothes at a very rapid 1200, 1600 or 2000 RPM. Spinning the clothes that fast means that they come out of the machine almost dry enough to wear. As a bonus, maybe the heater from the second suggestion could be used as double duty to either steam the clothes for de-wrinkling during the spin cycle, or could create hot air from the spinning tub, enough to even partially or completely dry some clothing items?

5. A selectable spin speed. Should be 0 RPM, 300 RPM, 600 RPM, 1200 RPM, 1600 RPM and 2000 RPM. (Depending on the capability of the machine?)

6. If the washer must be hooked up to a sink, it should have the capability to be able to heat cold water to any temperature, so that way there isn't issues with hot water ending up in the cold water lines. (Common problem with many buildings) It should also have a hot water inlet in case the user can hook up a separate hot water line to it. (It just gets capped off if it isn't being used.)

Now, please keep in mind that I'm not an engineer. I don't know all of the rules and regulations and I may be leading you down a path that goes nowhere, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head right now...



Post# 888939 , Reply# 8   7/11/2016 at 05:57 (2,839 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
website glitch caused my double post.

 So, back in the day, the bearing and or seal or gear case overhaul was less often needed, but belts, timers, mix valves, solenoids, relays, and switches were frequent repairs.
As for washing action and temperature regulating, you can increase hot water pressure to a machine by slightly closing the cold water valve to the washer inlet.
The thermistor has set calibrations.
I suppose you could bypass it with a jumper wire?

Post# 888943 , Reply# 9   7/11/2016 at 07:02 (2,839 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Spin speeds

 There are washers on the EU market which spin at up to 1600rpm, the North American top speed if 1400rpm, AFAIK.
There was a 2000rpm Gorenje washer over here. Really nice machine, touchscreen, verry futuristic.
Thing is: Even at 2000rpm, there was still about 40% residual moisture in the clothing. That means 1kg dry laundry had 400g water retained. That is far from wearable.

Heating is a difficult thing for the USA market: Anything bigger then 1ft³ can't heat much with the 120V/15A limitation.

Post# 889018 , Reply# 10   7/11/2016 at 16:36 (2,839 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        
@qualin

 foraloysius's profile picture
Apart from the filter system, you're close to describing an Asko with 2000rpm. ;-)

Post# 889085 , Reply# 11   7/12/2016 at 04:42 (2,839 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

Foraloysius,

I drooled over the Asko's when they came out and thought about buying one, but they're very expensive machines here in Canada. There are much better and cheaper alternatives to Asko here. (For example, Huebsch.) I'm sure that is blasphemy to someone who is European, but all of the Euro brands sell for an arm and leg up here.

I walked into an appliance store and was quoted $4k for a Miele.. I walked away wondering what they were smoking that someone would spend that much on a machine, that wasn't a commercial unit.

Henene4, The Asko I saw on the market here got around the water heating limitation by pulling power from the 240 volt / 30 amp dryer outlet for the dryer, which then had a special "Power supply" for the washer. Most homes here have that outlet, but for the purposes of this post, a small in-closet washer would take a while to boil a large quantity of water. You can still boil water with 1500 watts, it just takes a while. :-)

Now in mentioning Filter-Flo again, I think one of the reasons why it works so well for pet hair is because the filter pan twists around with the agitator, causing the hair to ball up. Whirlpools "Bed of nails" or brush lint filtering system would be another approach to the issue, but it is considerably more difficult to clean and had a tendency to clog up.

Now I'm wondering something though.. Lint filtering really isn't required with front loaders, because all of the lint would settle to the bottom of the tub, right?

Post# 889086 , Reply# 12   7/12/2016 at 04:54 (2,839 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

Do you have a lot of pet hair on your clothing when you do the wash?

Post# 889115 , Reply# 13   7/12/2016 at 08:43 (2,838 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
I know nothing about the prices of Huebsch appliances here (they are available here), but I'm sure they cost and arm and a leg too (Ofcourse here you get a machine with a 4800 Watts heating element).

There is something to say for buying laundry appliances from your own continent. Which makes me think that I don't understand how the Asian made washing machines are so cheap on other continents. The cost of making them must be close to nothing or the transportation must be done very cheap.

Post# 889224 , Reply# 14   7/13/2016 at 05:15 (2,837 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

Bruce,

I have a friend who has cats. If we want to get pet hair out of our clothes, we have to run a load with just a few items in the tub to make sure they tumble lots and get plenty of water, otherwise we just have to run the same load again until all of the hair is out.

When I was growing up, we had a Filter-Flo and had multiple dogs and a cat.. Never had issues with pet hair on our clothes. When the GE broke down, it was replaced with an 1980's era Inglis machine. It didn't do as good a job getting the pet hair off of our clothing, IMO.


Post# 889230 , Reply# 15   7/13/2016 at 06:25 (2,837 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Pet hair

 Our only pet is turtle named "Dude", so I don't have to deal with pet hair, but one would think the dryer would take care of that, wouldn't it...

Post# 889244 , Reply# 16   7/13/2016 at 09:07 (2,837 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

I can see where a GE filter flo would be good for that. Any machine with the filter pan would probably do a better job than most. I know there were several that had those kind of filters. Even the WCI models from the 70's & 80's had a kind of sieve filter that would probably be better at it too. If the pet hair is excessive, probably would be better to run a lint roller over them before washing. I don't have that problem, but have noticed that my front loader doesn't get rid of hair well when it is long human hair.

Post# 889448 , Reply# 17   7/15/2016 at 02:29 (2,836 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

askolover's profile picture
I know my mother's 1982 GE FF did a great job with our black Persian cat's hair. I now own 4 cats (rather, they own me), and one of them is white. For the most part, my GE dryer takes care of the hair since the Asko doesn't filter the water.

Post# 889519 , Reply# 18   7/15/2016 at 16:54 (2,835 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Thank you so much for the comments!

It will help me developing a new The Laundry Alternative model and I won't forget the people who helped me understanding better some american needs.


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