Washer in Denmark

With mechanical timer controlled machines, yes you turn the timer past a certain point (in this case pre-wash) to skip cycle. My Miele W1070 which is no where near 56 years old does this. OTOH the more modern AEG/OKO-Lavamat you simply press a button if pre-wash is wanted.

Pre-wash as part of normal or easy care cycles was pretty normal for front loaders (at least European) well into the 1990's. Again my Miele does it, however the manual suggests that if one is using a liquid detergent to skip the pre-wash and just use the main wash cycle.

The reasons for pre-washing as have stated numerous times before has not vanished with modern washing machines. You don't wash in dirty water, regardless of how wonderful your detergent. Two short wash cycles will give better results on dirty laundry than one long one. Laundromat and commercial laundries routinely start with a short (or long) pre-wash or flush before the main cycle. Even if only two or three minutes the cycle still flushes away a good amount of soils and other matter.

Another reason for using a pre-wash or soak is to avoid setting certain soils and stains by starting with hot water. Even for washers that heat their own water if there is access to hot water already (such as from the taps) a pre-wash allows you to start with hot water. You can then boost that water to make it hotter or even boiling if wanted.

"Extra 55C Pre-Wash"

Again my Miele washer has such a cycle and it is more of a soaking than washing. Machine fills to maximum water level then basically follows the wash rhythm for "Woolens" or "Delicates"; that is a series of gentle half-tumbles with long pauses in between. Meanwhile the water is being heated to whatever temperature chosen. I can do an extra pre-wash with temp set to 200F, though given length of cycle the washer may or may not reach that temp before time is over, it would depend upon the starting water temperature.

All this pre-washing and extra cycles began to be removed and or more of a selected option in response to governments placing ever more strict energy use requirements upon washing machines. This is also why you are seeing less and less of temps say > 160F.

In theory at least for Europe the advent of activated oxygen bleaches removed the need for boil washing as a matter of routine. The old pure sodium perborate bleaching systems really didn't get going until temps reached >140F and certainly at near 190F. Meanwhile activated oxygen bleaches will work at even 100F or below range.

One clever marketing campaign for a UK detergent with an activated oxygen bleaching system went "when the stain says hot, but the label not..."

The implication being that the products' activated bleaching system would remove stains/soils at lower wash temperatures.


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Post# 899319 9/18/2016 at 19:34 (2,775 days old) by abcomatic (Bradford, Illinois)
Checkrate/Likes HI all, I went to Denmark recently and used a Samsung front loader machine. All of the directions for use were in Danish. I think there was a setting marked sytex that I assumed was for perm. press. On the dial there were numbers, 90 60 40 30. I assumed that was for then length of time for a load of shirts. I set it on 60 and put in some Aeriel liquid and away it went. I have never used a front loader before so I assume I didn't overload it? It had cycle lights on it so you could push them for whatever. There was one that looked like water so I pushed that. Talk about the blind leading the blind. If anyone has info. on this type of machine, please let me know what that was all about if you can. thanks, Gary

Post# 899321 , Reply# 1 9/18/2016 at 19:39 (2,775 days old) by appnut (TX)
Checkrate/Likes 1 Those numbers were not for minutes to wash, there were wash water temperatures in celsius. 60 was 140 degrees. 90 was 195 degrees. 40 is 104. 30 is 85 degrees.

Post# 899327 , Reply# 2 9/18/2016 at 20:36 (2,775 days old) by abcomatic (Bradford, Illinois)
Checkrate/Likes Oh my, I washed those shirts in 140 degree water? Not such a good idea for perm. press.

Post# 899359 , Reply# 3 9/19/2016 at 02:54 (2,775 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)
Checkrate/Likes 2 *Not such a good idea for perm. press.* If there was a cool down, no problem. I hope the shirts didn't shrink, OTOH a lot of fabrics can handle higher temperatures than advised on labels.

Post# 899368 , Reply# 4 9/19/2016 at 04:54 (2,775 days old) by appnut (TX)
Checkrate/Likes I've washed white poly/cotton and "wrinkle free" shirts before in 140 degree water--but there was a good cool down before the 1st spin.

Post# 899373 , Reply# 5 9/19/2016 at 06:49 (2,775 days old) by GRWasher_expert (Athens)
Checkrate/Likes 2 You are lucky that you didn't set it to 90,thinking it was 90 minutes.The outcome would be some doll sized shirts.In europe all washers have internal heaters and they have their temperature setting in centigrade degrees instead of desctriptions such as hot,warm,cold that american washers have.I think that our system is better because you always know the exact temperatures your clothes are being washed.With american system,you never know the exact temperature of your wash because it highly depends on the external water heater's temperature and the way that the washer mixes hot and cold water to achieve intermediate temperature settings.For example in one washer "warm" setting would be 30 �C -86 �F while on another it would be 40 �C-104 �F.

Post# 899374 , Reply# 6 9/19/2016 at 06:58 (2,775 days old) by appnut (TX)
Checkrate/Likes *think that our system is better* I agree. I'd rather know what temperature the wash is targeting and going to end up with. Why toploaders overall give far superior results given control of temperatures and how the water is heated. But Americans could care less about laundry in general, are too dumb about what temperatures to properly wash clothes, and have been brainwashed by the government agencies that cold water washing is best for everything. I'd like to be able to dial temperature and spin speed.

Post# 899378 , Reply# 7 9/19/2016 at 07:18 (2,775 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There�s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes *Water Temperature Alone Does Not Tell The Tale* On both my Miele and AEG/Oko-Lavamat there are different cycles for cottons/linens and synthetic (Easy Cares) fabrics. Miele being older has temperature settings independent of cycle, the AEG has dedicated cycles for Easy Cares and Cotton Linens. For the latter a special cycle that only heats to 104F and does a series of cold rinses (no spins in between) then a short (about one minute) fast spin. The Miele you can set it for Permanent Press in theory anywhere from 86F, 104F, 120F, 140F up to 200F, but choosing that cycle will mean a series of cool down rinses, then three or four deep rinse, then a final series of three short spins. Am saying it could be possible the washer in question also had various cycles as well as water temperatures. Man made fibers are often thermoplastic; that is they react to temperature changes and thus can do things like melt or permanently crease. Reason why PP cycles do cool down rinses and often avoid spinning is to prevent the warm or even hot fabric from having new creases set in by being molded when heated. The idea is to gradually and fully bring down the temperature to cool or cold. This is the same idea behind why clothes dryers have long cool down periods on PP cycle. Man made fibers often are hydrophobic; that is they resist water. They also love oil. This can make cleaning such things difficult as unlike say with cotton you really cannot get water into weave of say polyester fabrics to get at dirt and soils. For this reason commercial laundries often do wash such materials at higher temps than you'd imagine.

Post# 899405 , Reply# 8 9/19/2016 at 09:48 (2,775 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)
Checkrate/Likes Older Miele's (1960's) with the temperature control set in the programme selector only had programmes for permanent press (Pflegeleicht) at 60 and 95 degrees Celcius. Lower temperatures were not available for permanent press. This video gives a good look at the programme selector.

Post# 899494 , Reply# 11 9/19/2016 at 17:28 (2,774 days old) by appnut (TX)
Checkrate/Likes 1 Water level is determined by automatic sensors just like front loaders in the U.S. Contrary to whaat you think, it's a concentrated detergent solution which helps clean the load without filling the machine 1/3 up the window.

Post# 899438 , Reply# 9 9/19/2016 at 12:17 (2,775 days old) by GRWasher_expert (Athens)
Checkrate/Likes Pretty weird programme menu.How different were the washing habits 56 years ago! -Prewash with every programme -Dial should be turned to a special position in order to skip prewash -4 wash programmes at 95 �C while most modern washers barely have 1 -Special programme for diapers! -Extra 55 �C prewash programme -No 40 �C programme!

Post# 899458 , Reply# 10 9/19/2016 at 14:26 (2,775 days old) by abcomatic (Bradford, Illinois)
Checkrate/Likes Thanks for all of your info. on the machines used in Europe. The last time I used a front load machine was in 1961 using a Westinghouse. lol The shirts came out just fine and no damage was done with my mistaken water temp. Do machines there use one water level or is there a way to increase the amount of water used during each cycle. Thanks, Gary

Post# 899504 , Reply# 12 9/19/2016 at 18:03 (2,774 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There�s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes 1 With mechanical timer controlled machines, yes you turn the timer past a certain point (in this case pre-wash) to skip cycle. My Miele W1070 which is no where near 56 years old does this. OTOH the more modern AEG/OKO-Lavamat you simply press a button if pre-wash is wanted. Pre-wash as part of normal or easy care cycles was pretty normal for front loaders (at least European) well into the 1990's. Again my Miele does it, however the manual suggests that if one is using a liquid detergent to skip the pre-wash and just use the main wash cycle. The reasons for pre-washing as have stated numerous times before has not vanished with modern washing machines. You don't wash in dirty water, regardless of how wonderful your detergent. Two short wash cycles will give better results on dirty laundry than one long one. Laundromat and commercial laundries routinely start with a short (or long) pre-wash or flush before the main cycle. Even if only two or three minutes the cycle still flushes away a good amount of soils and other matter. Another reason for using a pre-wash or soak is to avoid setting certain soils and stains by starting with hot water. Even for washers that heat their own water if there is access to hot water already (such as from the taps) a pre-wash allows you to start with hot water. You can then boost that water to make it hotter or even boiling if wanted. "Extra 55C Pre-Wash" Again my Miele washer has such a cycle and it is more of a soaking than washing. Machine fills to maximum water level then basically follows the wash rhythm for "Woolens" or "Delicates"; that is a series of gentle half-tumbles with long pauses in between. Meanwhile the water is being heated to whatever temperature chosen. I can do an extra pre-wash with temp set to 200F, though given length of cycle the washer may or may not reach that temp before time is over, it would depend upon the starting water temperature. All this pre-washing and extra cycles began to be removed and or more of a selected option in response to governments placing ever more strict energy use requirements upon washing machines. This is also why you are seeing less and less of temps say > 160F. In theory at least for Europe the advent of activated oxygen bleaches removed the need for boil washing as a matter of routine. The old pure sodium perborate bleaching systems really didn't get going until temps reached >140F and certainly at near 190F. Meanwhile activated oxygen bleaches will work at even 100F or below range. One clever marketing campaign for a UK detergent with an activated oxygen bleaching system went "when the stain says hot, but the label not..." The implication being that the products' activated bleaching system would remove stains/soils at lower wash temperatures.

Post# 899515 , Reply# 13 9/19/2016 at 19:25 (2,774 days old) by GRWasher_expert (Athens)
Checkrate/Likes My new Candy and many other washer models have prewash only in the boil wash programme.So you can't run a prewash for coloreds.Modern washers are soooo different than the old ones.I wonder how did the '60s people wash their non-fast coloreds without a 40 �C programme.Either the vast majority of their clothes were whites or they didn't care about color fading,so they washed everything at 60 �C.As they loved boil washes and detergents didn't have oxygen bleach,I don't think that they ever used 30�C programmes.Maybe only for delicates.Another weird thing about this old miele is that there is no rinse program,so I suppose that if they wanted to only rinse clothes,they had to run the extra prewash program.There is also a starching program(St�rken).What would this program do?Maybe soak clothes in starch solution for a couple hours and then rinse?

Post# 899528 , Reply# 14 9/19/2016 at 20:29 (2,774 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There�s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *Starching* Cycle is an extra separate rinse. On my "newer" AEG/OKO-Lavamat the cycle is called "starching" and can be used for that purpose. Or, simply as a rinse cycle where you can let it spin at various speeds, or allow it to stop. You must then chose a spin cycle (short or long) and speed. Or simply set the machine to "drain". On the Miele the owner's manual tells to reset the machine for last rinse and add starch or whatever into the dispenser. Rest is same as above basically. On the Miele water level is either "high" by default or you can select "1/2" for low water. The latter is recommended for starching.

Post# 899564 , Reply# 15 9/20/2016 at 00:45 (2,774 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)
Checkrate/Likes 1 IIRC in the manual of my mother's Miele W423 from 1975 it said to close the faucet sooner than it had fully filled. I guess that was done to limit the amount of starch needed.

Post# 899593 , Reply# 16 9/20/2016 at 07:11 (2,774 days old) by GRWasher_expert (Athens)
Checkrate/Likes So I suppose that you could as well add fabric conditioner instead of starch,if you wanted a normal rinse,but I doubt if fabric conditioners were sold at '60s

Post# 899606 , Reply# 17 9/20/2016 at 08:39 (2,774 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)
Checkrate/Likes 1 This Miele has a fabric softener dispenser as you can see for a very short moment at around 1.45 - 2.00 into the video. It's the oval opening. We had fabric softener in the late sixties IIRC, it was Silan. Here's an old Italian commercial. Apologies for going so off topic, but I guess the OP got his question answered. I hope you don't mind Gary.

Post# 899645 , Reply# 18 9/20/2016 at 11:56 (2,774 days old) by abcomatic (Bradford, Illinois)
Checkrate/Likes Thanks for all of the information men. I have enjoyed reading all that has been posted. Gary