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Thread Number: 68029  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
Out with the old (Miele DW), in with the new (GE Profile DW)
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Post# 907372   11/17/2016 at 09:43 by drhardee ( Columbia, SC)        

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Now, before you just check out the headline and say, "Put down the crack pipe, Dave..." there is a REASON to my seeming madness. My 10 year old Miele finally breathed it's last, as far as I'm concerned. It appears that the water intake valve has died (a relatively common problem on Miele DW's of this age) and a repair is going to be north of $600.00. The local Miele dealer does NOT have a trained Miele tech, just 2 who have "taken a few classes, and don't work on 'em much.." I am in South Carolina, after all.

So, after much soul-searching and grinding of teeth (no, wait, that was election day..),I decided to buy a DW that COULD be worked on by our regional pool of repair talent. Bosch was out; I'm now mildly wary of German dishwashers, and getting them worked on. Yeah, I know, Bosch is made in NC. And President-elect Drumpf wants us to "buy American"...just kidding. I thought about KA, but online reviews were disappointing, and they're made by WP, anyways.

I like the overall look, inside and out, and the long feature list of the GE Profile, and I am installing the penultimate model in the 2016 GE Profile line, a PDT845SS. The main difference between this model, and the TOL GE PDT855 model is Wi-Fi connectivity, the 3rd rack for utensils and 2 decibels of quietness. 40 vs 42 DB's for the 845. Those are things I can easily live without. I cannot imagine anxiously checking my Iphone to see if my dishes are clean. And there is the $400.00 difference in price between the two. GE is "pushing" the 845 model currently, and it's available for less than $800.00. Can't get a nice Bosch for that.

The Miele 3rd rack was nice, but the GE has "dedicated silverware jets" that blast the 3-piece silverware basket up from the bottom thoroughly. The GE does NOT have a true 3rd spray arm, like the Miele, just a "nubbin" at the very top of the tub that seems to pee water on the stuff in the top rack...looks quite ineffective in the video.

But, we'll see what we see when the thing is installed. Then there's the training the legally blind husband how to load and use a new DW after he'd gotten quite used to the 10 year old one. Knife blades and fork tines DOWN, spoons up. The silverware basket does have slots which is nice, although you don't have to use them.

After an inaugural load or two, I'll do a more in-depth review of the new GE DW. If it's trash, after the warranty expires, I'll go back to shopping. Yeah, retail therapy, that's right....


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Post# 907397 , Reply# 1   11/17/2016 at 12:37 by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Your situation reminds me of what the Wizard told Dorothy about how he got his job, "Times being what they were..." Times and circumstances being what they are, you probably made the most expedient choice. I wish you well with it. Your situation is like the one some of us have encountered with buying air conditioners. The once noble name of Friedrich is now slapped on Chinese shit at a several hundred dollar boost in price. The world is in the toilet and I am glad I am old so I won't have to watch much more deterioration of myself or anything else, especially if camps are opened.

Post# 907428 , Reply# 2   11/17/2016 at 19:18 by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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A very interesting machine your new GE. The flatware basket jets are especially intriguing, I'll be curious to hear what your initial and ongoing thoughts are. Best of luck, it's always fun getting a new appliance.

Post# 907957 , Reply# 3   11/21/2016 at 19:53 by drhardee ( Columbia, SC)        

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The new GE was installed today, by the same man who installed the Miele back in 2006. I'm running an inaugural load in it as I write. What I can say, initially is, damn, it's quiet! It's SO MUCH more quiet than the Miele! I'm attributing some of that quietness to the 24" width of the GE -vs- the 23 7/8" of the Miele. There was a noticeable gap on either side of the Miele which let noise out, I suppose. The racking is different, and I have repeatedly stuck my hand in the empty top of the dishwasher looking for the non-existent third rack, and then have to bend over to place the silverware in the slots of the silverware basket. Oh, well, gotta give it time. I am running this first load with no "temp boost" options to see what it can do with just what it considers water that's hot enough for getting the job done without any "boosting". Nothing is too nasty in there, and I did a "rinse and hold" cycle earlier, 'cause I couldn't stand the anticipation. I am using 1/2 of a Miele tab, instead of the provided Cascade Platinum packs that came with the unit.

When the installer asked me if I wanted to keep the Miele for any reason, I said "no, you can scrap it", and he cut the power cord off of it close to the back of the unit, which hurt my heart to observe. But, then he reused the Miele power cord, and spliced it to the power junction box of the GE. So, it's got a little Miele in it anyway.He did a fine job of installing the unit for $150.00

I did keep the Miele's third rack, bottle/vase holder, and the pilsner glass/tall glass insert which came with this Premiere Plus model. I'm going to sell those items inexpensively if anyone is interested in spare parts for a Miele. The silverware rack (old style, not split) is in perfect condition for being 10 years old.I'd like to sell them all together, since shipping them individually will be a PITA. Send me a PM if interested.

Post# 908173 , Reply# 4   11/23/2016 at 09:26 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        

GE profile is a 2011 model. No problems, no complaints yet. We operate it about every other day on the anti-bacterial cycle with the added heat option and air dry.
Takes about 88 minutes.

Post# 908200 , Reply# 5   11/23/2016 at 10:51 by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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I have last year's PDT720 GE dishwasher, and it's not perfect, especially on the top rack, but with a few easy mods, I made it a great dishwasher!
And you can't beat the bottle jets!
I've read in reviews that GE has only made these good machines even better, especially with that nifty silverware spray module.

Good luck, happy washing!

Post# 908327 , Reply# 6   11/24/2016 at 06:45 by Spacedogb (Lafayette, LA)        

I want your old Miele.....LOL

Post# 908347 , Reply# 7   11/24/2016 at 10:45 by drhardee ( Columbia, SC)        

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The "sensor" cycle, with NO temperature boost, but with "power dry" added comes in at a whopping 3 HRS, 10 minutes, not counting the extra 90 minute additional power dry cycle (which cancels out if you open the door during that 90 minutes). So, dish-washing has definitely become an overnight proposition. I haven't tried the light wash or "express" cycles, which are shorter, according to the display, but I will. The "normal" cycle, which may not use sensors, came in at 2.5 hours last night. But the stuff was clean, even without adding boosted temps.

I have also purchased a 5 year extended warranty on this unit which kicks in when the 1 year factory warranty expires. It was only $150.00, and can be cancelled for a pro-rated refund. Shoot, just getting a service person out to LOOK at an appliance these days around here is a $89.00 trip charge to start.

Post# 908385 , Reply# 8   11/24/2016 at 20:23 by appnut (TX)        

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David, the Normal cycle uses the sensors as that's the one based on the energy star label and can adjust.  Actually I think most cycles do use the sensors for soil level and water temperature. David manual says max time for Normal is 1:50 and heated dry adds 65 minutes.  I couldn't find if this model has the hidden heating element or not thought.  With hidden heating element it adds 90 minutes and factor that time would be 1:50 + 1:30 which would be 3:20. 

Post# 908414 , Reply# 9   11/25/2016 at 07:11 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
They do Bob.

A turbidity sensor is optical and will make the machine purge and fill with some clean water when particles are detected. A thermistor for water temp. can delay wash and final rinse time when the high temp. options are selected.

Post# 908423 , Reply# 10   11/25/2016 at 08:35 by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

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Admittedly 10 years of service only isn`t too impressive considering the price tag of a Miele. Suppose an inlet valve would have been an inexpensive fix if you could do it yourself.
Are the newest GE dishwashers still constantly cycling on and off ?
I found this very annoying when I had the chance to use one. Drying perfomance was terrible even with heated dry selected, but from what I read here they improved it. I did like the racking thought it could hold more dishes than a European DW.
Good luck with it!

Post# 908429 , Reply# 11   11/25/2016 at 09:43 by drhardee ( Columbia, SC)        

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Bob, Thanks for that nugget of information, it is helpful. Good to know I can use the "Normal" cycle, and will see a possible benefit from sensors. I bob-loaded it up last night; Thanksgiving dinner for 7 with dessert plates, and serving accoutrements, and everything came out sparkling with boosted temp on the sensor cycle.

I did hate giving up the Miele, it's true. But, I'm not nearly adept with any sort of repair on my machines, and rely on the paid expertise of those who know what they're doing (for a living).

This model DOES have the hidden heater feature, BTW. And yes, it does start and stop in an odd manner, especially during the first 10-15 minutes of the cycle. There's also a muted "thunk" frequently heard, as the switching valve does it's thing; I guess it's either reversing direction on the lower wash arm, or it's engaging the middle spray arm, or some such thing. I suppose the "deep clean silverware jets" took up the water pressure that had been going to the third spray arm, 'cause there is not one on this model, just the aforementioned "nubbin" at the top of the cabinet which appears to be more decorative than useful.

The loudest thing I've heard is the distinct "thwap" when the detergent door snaps open. I do miss being able to "see" the display, and keep track of the time of the cycle. Oh well, another first-world problem...

Currently I'm washing a seperate load of the 7 gold-rimmed water glasses and glass water and tea pitchers used last night. I chose the "Express" cycle, non-boosted temp, and half a Miele tab. The Miele never damaged the gold rims on those glasses; we'll see how this GE does with those 50 year old Fostoria glasses. If they're ruined, it's my own stupid fault.

Post# 908554 , Reply# 12   11/26/2016 at 10:01 by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Never hand dry gold trim while it is even warm. The gold softens when hot and can be rubbed away.

Post# 908879 , Reply# 13   11/28/2016 at 15:25 by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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All cycles on the GE dishwashers use the optical soil sensor, except for maybe Light Wash.
AutoSense is the most versatile cycle since it will widely adjust to differing load sizes and soil levels.
Heavy with Steam and Boost are still recommended for the crustiest of crusty pots and pans, as they might cause AutoSense to struggle a bit.
Normal's algorithm, though the sensor is still active, does seem to be more conservative in it's adjustments. It will really try to use as little water as possible to get the dishes clean. But if the soil is really prominent, I've seen my Normal cycle add 1-2 pre-rinses.

As noted, the first pre-rinse in these GE machines is interesting (annoying I guess to some).
It will constantly alternate bottom to top ever 10 seconds for the duration of the pre-rinse. Doing this, I'm guessing it must taking sample readings between each set of bottom/top spraying, to incrementally measure the soil level.

I guess for cost reasons, but GE seems to have deleted the little spray arm on the top, in favor of a little turbine wheel. Honestly, the spray arm only had two little jets on it, for all that plastic in the arm. It does a decent job keeping the ceiling and door clean, that's about it. I'm sure the turbine wheel does the same.

Post# 908900 , Reply# 14   11/28/2016 at 17:16 by jkbff (Dickinson, ND)        

Out of curiosity, what was the model number for the Miele?

Post# 909863 , Reply# 15   12/6/2016 at 08:42 by drhardee ( Columbia, SC)        

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It was a "Premiere Plus", SCVi898, if I recall correctly. In 2005 it was Miele's TOL model.I still have those FREE to a good home, you just pay shipping.

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