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Thread Number: 68288
/ Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
Kenmore belt drive clunking/banging and not spinning/draining properly? |
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Post# 910254 , Reply# 1 12/8/2016 at 23:48 (2,688 days old) by cleanteamofny  ((Monroe, New York) |
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| Post# 910264 , Reply# 2 12/9/2016 at 02:41 (2,688 days old) by brucelucenta () | ||
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Maybe time for something new. There are lots of nice new compact front loaders now. Consumer Reports has a page on them this very month. | ||
| Post# 910272 , Reply# 3 12/9/2016 at 04:57 (2,688 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
Sounds like... | ||
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Post# 910277 , Reply# 4 12/9/2016 at 05:24 (2,688 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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I agree with Malcolm...
This does sound like a slow drain problem.
These machines won't spin when the water level pressure switch is still satisfied. It sounds like water is partially draining enough to un-trip the switch, then the machine completes the spin circuit and starts to spin. Spinning the tub with water in it is probably causing an out of balance situation which would explain the banging. The sloshing water of a partially filled tub will then temporarily re-satisfy the pressure switch and the spin will stop until the switch allows spin again. What is causing the slow drain is the clincher here. Is the drain hose kinked? Is there a blockage like Malcolm wondered? Is the pump failing? Is the drain hose too narrow? Check the drain hose first... Gordon | ||
| Post# 910295 , Reply# 5 12/9/2016 at 07:48 (2,688 days old) by barcoboy (Canada) | ||
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| Post# 910301 , Reply# 7 12/9/2016 at 08:47 (2,688 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI) | ||
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The agitation cycles are working totally fine by the way, and the waterfall lint filter is flowing properly during the wash/rinse. | ||
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Post# 910303 , Reply# 8 12/9/2016 at 08:56 (2,688 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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This is just generic stuff but it'll probably be along these lines you find it: 1) Wig-wag? Wires to wig-wag? (check for mounting, something bent or stuck in there, electrical continuity, firm connections) 2) Pressure switch tube/connection at tub. especially as you're having to tilt this washer a lot. Maybe water or suds or something partially blocking that tube? Same electrical stuff as (1). 3) Blockage in drain hose, pump, sump? Hose kinked? 4) The lid open is interesting. Is the lid-safety switch also involved (more than one problem?) 5) Timer. Ick. Double-Ick. Unlikely, but worth checking.
Oh course, I'm assuming the usual stuff like the drainpipe is clear, the floor is level, etc. Nobody suddenly switched to a high-sudsing detergent?
I'd absolutely not replace this washer unless you have no choice. We have a DD version which is a super fast spinner and washes unbelievably well. The later models with their jury-rigged half-hearted electronics have all been worthless junk. I'd avoid them like the pest. Whirlpool took what had been a really solid performer and turned it into a piece of trash when they went down that route.
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Post# 910310 , Reply# 11 12/9/2016 at 09:49 (2,688 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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 It has always gone in/out of spin a few times before ramping to full speed (usually starts trying to spin with about 1/3 a tub of water)It should never go into spin with any water in the tub. The water should drain completely before spin begins. There has apparently been a drain restriction of some ilk for a long time. | ||
| Post# 910314 , Reply# 13 12/9/2016 at 10:02 (2,688 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI) | ||
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Whether it should or not, I don't know, the lint filter continues to flow until the water level has dropped below the pump inlet (I'm guessing here). If it tries to spin, the lint filter is flowing, then as it drains and ramps up, the water eventually stops flowing from the filter. | ||
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Post# 910325 , Reply# 15 12/9/2016 at 11:06 (2,688 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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As others have explained, a Whirlpool (or Kenmore) old-style belt-drive washer won't spin until the water level pressure switch resets ... the pressure switch is in the circuit with the wig-wag spin solenoid when the timer is on a spin position. If drain is slow and the timer advances from neutral drain to spin with enough water remaining in the tub such that the pressure switch is not reset, neutral drain will continue until the water level drops sufficiently. The spin solenoid on the wig-wag triggers at that point and spin begins ... but the remaining water in the tub swirls/kicks-up from the spin, which typically triggers the pressure switch to engage again and spin stops, reverts back to neutral drain. Spin starts again when the basket brakes to a stop, the swirling water settles, and the pressure switch resets again. This spin / neutral drain / spin / neutral drain sequence will repeat until enough water is drained that it doesn't swirl/kick-up high enough to trigger the pressure switch. IMO (unless there's something specific about compact models of which I'm unaware), if the machine ever goes into spin during normal cycle progression without the water being fully drained (1/3 of of a tubful is a lot to be remaining), then there's a problem of some ilk, ostensibly the drain route is restricted somewhere. Maybe a sock or other piece of clothing is in the outer tub partially blocking the drain port. | ||
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Post# 910332 , Reply# 17 12/9/2016 at 11:43 (2,688 days old) by jeff_adelphi (Adelphi, Maryland, USA) |
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The compact belt drive washers have a 4 minute drain before they try to spin. All water should be out before spin starts, if not you have a drainage problem. The reason the water flow slows down when it goes into spin, is the water in the tub is keeping the tub from coming up to speed properly and slowing the pump down.
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Post# 910352 , Reply# 19 12/9/2016 at 13:31 (2,688 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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I'm still unsure about the rattling chains, but | ||
| Post# 910353 , Reply# 20 12/9/2016 at 13:34 (2,688 days old) by barcoboy (Canada) | ||
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One thing to check for is once draining starts, does the washer try to start spinning before the timer moves an additional increment? Time how long each timer increment is... I believe they should be 2 minutes. In between the wash and spin portions of the cycle, there should be at least one if not two increments of the timer (ie: 2 or 4 minutes) where the neutral drain occurs, and the timer does not send power to either wig-wag. If the washer tries to start spinning in the increment immediately after the agitation stops and draining starts, then that is not normal.
One other thing you can try is a different cycle on the timer to see if the same thing happens in that cycle. | ||
| Post# 910355 , Reply# 21 12/9/2016 at 13:40 (2,688 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
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Timer
You may need to time the neutral drain as well as monitor the timer advancement.
I suspect there should be 2 increments of neutral drain before spin is engaged. Additionally, the water level may have been adjusted too high which invites small items to hope the edge of the tub and get down to the drain port. Perhaps a long shot, but we are all throwing stones in the dark... I would get over there and examine operation yourself as soon as possible. Malcolm | ||
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Post# 910376 , Reply# 23 12/9/2016 at 16:40 (2,688 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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from what I have seen, all portables had a 4 minute drain, already built in for purpose of using a sink connector, hence the smaller hose restriction...still way more than enough time to drain out the tub...
timer increments, at least for a electromechanical timer is 2 minutes.....only machine I ever see to alter was an electronic/digital machine, which would measure and account for when the tub was empty, to jump into spin.....so as a small load would not take as much time to drain as a full tub...my own experience has been with a direct drive machine.... but even my full size, super capacity, 1984 belt drive had a 4 minute drain.... and all water was gone before the first two minute part was finished....the rest seemed a waste.... but actually, is this a true 24" portable?......or the one with retractable wheels? | ||
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Post# 910387 , Reply# 24 12/9/2016 at 18:05 (2,688 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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I hate to say it | ||
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Post# 910395 , Reply# 25 12/9/2016 at 19:04 (2,688 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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| Post# 910447 , Reply# 27 12/10/2016 at 08:08 (2,687 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
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So... It is this? | ||
| Post# 910458 , Reply# 28 12/10/2016 at 09:32 (2,687 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI) | ||
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Yes! That's exactly it, washer and dryer both. They are white, but obviously that doesn't make a difference in the mechanical side of things. | ||
| Post# 910461 , Reply# 29 12/10/2016 at 09:35 (2,687 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI) | ||
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I'll be going over to check it out today, I was planning on going yesterday, but by the time I got other things done, it was getting a little late, and roads were getting a little slippery, and it's a 15 mile drive. | ||
| Post# 910505 , Reply# 30 12/10/2016 at 14:35 (2,687 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
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I would bet... | ||
| Post# 910568 , Reply# 33 12/10/2016 at 21:57 (2,687 days old) by barcoboy (Canada) | ||
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I'm really starting to think that there is something either wrong with the timer, or a short somewhere in that power is being sent to the spin solenoid on the wig-wag all the time. Maybe a contact that is stuck closed in the timer? This would explain the buzzing sound you hear during filling and why it stops when you lift the lid, and also why the machine is going into spin too quickly. The only thing that is preventing it from spinning while it is agitating is the pressure switch being satisfied, but once it starts draining, as soon as the pressure switch is no longer satisfied, power gets sent to the solenoid and the washer tries to start spinning, and kicks out once the water rises and re-satisfies the pressure switch (as others have explained). Another thing that would confirm my theory that the solenoid is on all the time is if the washer takes longer to stop spinning at the end of the spin period with the lid left closed than when the lid is opened mid way though the spin cycle. If the spin solenoid stays energized after spin, even though the timer cuts power to the motor, the washer does not shift out of spin and thus the brake is not applied, so the spin coasts to a stop rather than brakes. Lifting the lid interrupts the power to the solenoid, causing the washer to shift out of spin and apply the brake.
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| Post# 910606 , Reply# 35 12/11/2016 at 08:26 (2,686 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
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Hmmm...
A single 50 second increment of neutral drain doesn't seem quite right.
The timer schematic might be on the service panel on the back of the cabinet. Perhaps the timer was replaced at some point with a 50hz model causing it to cycle fast? There may also be a hose between the pump outlet and the cabinet joint the is partially kinked. After the clunk into spin, does the machine fall silent until it gradually picks up spin speed? Clutch might be grabbing and need adjustment. Malcolm | ||
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Post# 910608 , Reply# 36 12/11/2016 at 08:30 (2,686 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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Kenmoreman | ||
| Post# 910609 , Reply# 37 12/11/2016 at 08:33 (2,686 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
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Clunk | ||
| Post# 910620 , Reply# 39 12/11/2016 at 10:09 (2,686 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI) | ||
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The clunk is similar to that, but louder. The machine seems louder in general than the video | ||
| Post# 910625 , Reply# 40 12/11/2016 at 10:36 (2,686 days old) by Kenmoreman ( Southern NH) | ||
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Cam bar spring Your problem is definately the cam bar spring based on it being louder than the noise on the video. As far as the general noiseness you can't compare a Lady K with a belt drive portable. Both great machines but different sound levels while running. | ||
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Post# 910630 , Reply# 41 12/11/2016 at 12:30 (2,686 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN) |
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Post# 910631 , Reply# 42 12/11/2016 at 12:30 (2,686 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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Post# 910669 , Reply# 44 12/11/2016 at 17:05 (2,686 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Malfunctioning BD Washer You have several problems going on here, first the clunking going into spin [ which is not causing any performance problem by the way ] is probably a loose cam bar hold down spring as already mentioned, tightening the bolt that holds it down will probably eliminate the noise but the washer will not work any better.
The reason the washer stops pumping out remaining water once it tries to spin is because the belt is loose and the clutch is not slipping properly so the belt starts slipping on the motor pulley and since the belt has slowed down so much the pump can not pump water at all. *
You might have a bad timer, these washers had a 2 or 4 minute pump out period, also the buzzing sound that goes away when the lid is lifted during fill raises questions, The only electrical part that goes through the lid switch is the spin solenoid on this washer. The machine could also have some shorted wiring.
* foot note The ONLY reason a belt ever fails of a BD WP washer like this is that it is loose, A tight pump etc Can Not cause the belt to burn and fail. The great majority of WP BD washers ever in use have loose belts after a good number of years of use, the washers often run fine like this for years as long as everything goes well, but finally the belt looses traction as the wig-wag tries to shift into or out of spin or agitate and the belt stops moving and the motor keeps running and burns through the belt, we have seen this somewhere around 3000 times over the years.
John L. | ||
| Post# 910688 , Reply# 45 12/11/2016 at 19:22 (2,686 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI) | ||
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Is there anything within reason that can be done to make the clutch slip properly? The washer does seem to bog down a bit when it is going into spin, but does work fine once the tub is empty. Should I check the tension of the belt and tighten it? | ||
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Post# 910758 , Reply# 46 12/12/2016 at 10:34 (2,685 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York) |
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You should tighten the belt, it's not hard to do, just take the back panel off and hit/tap motor with a hammer to tighten belt to 1/2 inch indention. You may have a timer issue also, pump out time for this washer is 4 minuets. My parent brought this true no frill 24 inch standard capacity washer and boy did we do a lot of laundry for a family of 6! | ||
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Post# 910848 , Reply# 48 12/12/2016 at 21:12 (2,685 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Proper Way To Tighten A Belt On A WP BD Washer Remove back panel and loosen the 9/16" nut above the base plate 1 turn, also loosen the other 9/16" nut on the front motor mounting bracket 1 turn, then take a pry bar at least 14-20 inches long and place between the two motor mounting brackets from the rear of the washer and pull the pry bar to the left until the belt is tight, and while holding it tight tighten the rear 9/16" nut above the base plate. At this point release tension on the pry bar and tighten the front 9/16" nut.
There is no other correct way to tighten the belt on a WP BD washer and what ever you do DO NOT hit the motor with a hammer as you may destroy it.
If this washer has the three pad clutch lining the clutch will now slip correctly as the washer accelerates into spin, if it has the older full friction lining like a car clutch you may have to spray the lining with a silicone lubricant to get the clutch to slip properly as the basket accelerates to full spin speed.
John L. | ||
| Post# 911562 , Reply# 49 12/17/2016 at 21:22 (2,680 days old) by Kenmoreman ( Southern NH) | ||
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Fix Did you have any sucess? Just curious what you found. | ||
| Post# 911715 , Reply# 50 12/18/2016 at 21:53 (2,679 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI) | ||
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I plan on going over Tuesday to hoist it out of its corner and dig in, it will take 3 strong guys to lift it out, so it may be sitting out for a bit if I'm not able to get it working properly. Will see what I find and update when I get home :) | ||
| Post# 911749 , Reply# 51 12/19/2016 at 01:57 (2,678 days old) by wigwag (San Diego) | ||
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single clunk I think I can explain the single clunk, there is a screw that holds down the cam bars if it gets loose the spin cam bar will ram into the motor making the loud clunk. Tighten it and that noise will go away. | ||
| Post# 912226 , Reply# 53 12/22/2016 at 23:34 (2,674 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI) | ||
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And I have to go back tomorrow and figure something out, it's sitting in the middle of their kitchen. I did measure the space and a standard 27" washer will fit, tight, but it should be able to be done. If I can't figure this thing out, that will be the next step. | ||
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Post# 912611 , Reply# 55 12/26/2016 at 00:13 (2,671 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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"I'm over this washer . . ." | ||
| Post# 912663 , Reply# 56 12/26/2016 at 14:50 (2,671 days old) by Kenmoreman ( Southern NH) | ||
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Leaking like a sieve Is it possible there is a drain backup issue? What is it draining into? If it didn't leak before you reinstalled it why would it pour water now? Just wondering. I hate to see you give up after all this. | ||
| Post# 912717 , Reply# 58 12/27/2016 at 08:13 (2,670 days old) by Kenmoreman ( Southern NH) | ||
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You should be able to watch it in spin with the top lifted up. At least it may help you locate the leak? I bet it's something simple at this point. Don't give up. Look how much you have already learned. Don't get frustrated. | ||
| Post# 912805 , Reply# 60 12/28/2016 at 00:05 (2,669 days old) by Kenmoreman ( Southern NH) | ||
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I knew it had to be simple. If you go with the full size hose make sure the sink can keep up with the water flow. Sometimes we can beat a problem to death! It was the cam bar spring. God bless us all! | ||
| Post# 912852 , Reply# 61 12/28/2016 at 09:20 (2,669 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI) | ||
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Thanks to alL who helped, it is GREATLY appreciated! | ||
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