Thread Number: 68422  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
Clean Sweep Arms
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Post# 911736   12/19/2016 at 00:39 (185 days old) by jkbff (Gladstone, ND)        

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Have you guys seen the new .. square wash pattern GE has?? There are a few youtube videos, one is linked on the unlisted product page, so I will post that link and the theory behind the wash arm.

products.geappliances.com/applian...









Post# 911752 , Reply# 1   12/19/2016 at 02:48 (185 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

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This is the first Dishwasher in years that has piqued my interest with a new design that looks like it works.

Interesting.

Ah, but will the cycle time be under 6 hours ? : )


Post# 911782 , Reply# 2   12/19/2016 at 07:53 (185 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Wow

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I wanna try

Post# 911783 , Reply# 3   12/19/2016 at 08:01 (185 days old) by jkbff (Gladstone, ND)        

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I was just talking about GE's dw's with the rep, he asked why I don't sell many of them, why I always go to the Miele. I told him the middle wash arm doesn't perform as well as the Miele, plus their third basket is better.

We were just talking about corner reach, cycle times etc. Now I stumbled upon this.

I'm going to have to see if I can get one to try out. I think with that reversing lower arm, that square moving middle arm, I think this would be a great unit, if the cycle times are better.

I mean, ideally, I'd love to see a third rack and a third full upper wash arm on this DW, and I think it would be a great contender against the Miele, especially at the price point it is at.


Post# 911792 , Reply# 4   12/19/2016 at 09:22 (185 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Immer Besser

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I have re watched that video of the design and operation of that middle spray arm.

Miele certainly builds a great machine and products. Super quiet, virtually silent except for when the dishwasher drains into a T under the sink. The cleaning performance is stellar. As far as that third rack to place each piece of flatware into it's own space does make sense for cleaning efficiency but I find it borderline "Really ?" Just seems labor intensive for loading a dishwasher in my own opinion.

Owning a 4842 FL washer now for about 5-6 years, it has been dependable after the first unit was replaced but then again, practically silent operation except the drain pump is loud.

That is very well thought out. I do see however they are using the principle (sort of) of the Multi Orbit Spray Arm that was on the 1980s 2800 and other models. I was fascinated how that arm moved close to the corner of the lower rack.

The Triangle arm seems to make more sense too.

Now to get back the redesign of the Top Loader. Maybe this is a step forward ???


Post# 911799 , Reply# 5   12/19/2016 at 11:12 (185 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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HOLY SCHNIKEES!
I'm floored. That's a pretty awesome design for a middle arm.
The corners on my current GE Profile are constantly a weak spot.
I marginally remedied it by ditching the middle x-arm for the s-shape arm from GE's lower end models, which is a tad longer. And it's helped a bit.

But this cam-run middle arm is genius! Good for them! GE's really been listening to people complain about the upper rack weakness of this platform.
Hope this helps as they claim.


Post# 911801 , Reply# 6   12/19/2016 at 11:31 (185 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        

I like the flat design of the arm. I first thought how much ut will increase the water usage due to added volume, but that seems just fine... Reminds ne a little of the OrbitClean/ProClean system ELux has...

Post# 911815 , Reply# 7   12/19/2016 at 14:19 (185 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        

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Reminds me of the square hole drill bit. Somewhat similar action.






Hopefully the complexity issues don't hurt the dishwasher as much...


Post# 911819 , Reply# 8   12/19/2016 at 15:23 (185 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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That looks pretty cool. Reminds me of a Bosch patent for a spray arm that would somehow travel or extend into the corners. Naturally, that worked only on the bottom rack (and looked fairly complicated) so props to GE for finally coming up with something for the top rack.

That being said, I still have to ask: why not just use a spray arm that cleans the corners? I participated in the Peanut Butter Test a few months ago and every glass came out perfectly clean. Same goes for the often crowded cutlery basket: I pack it full of spoons and 79 minutes later they all come out sparkling - without the need for extra shenanigans.


Post# 911838 , Reply# 9   12/19/2016 at 18:48 (185 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

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True Alex ... Very True

Post# 911841 , Reply# 10   12/19/2016 at 19:44 (185 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Reminds me of a hula hoop dance in slow mo.


Post# 911907 , Reply# 11   12/20/2016 at 09:10 (184 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        
@logixx

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Likely because this current platform does not have the water volume to adequately spray water into tall corner glasses.
I'm living proof.
With just ONE far reaching corner jet, it's not enough water being thrown into corners, let alone tall vessels.
So they're modifying what they have, and it seems this device will remedy the corner issues with a fancy geared middle arm that physically juts into the corners.


Post# 911910 , Reply# 12   12/20/2016 at 09:39 (184 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
In the days when

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Water volume (and, to some extent pressure) were not limited, one could just barely get by with spray arm patterns. It wasn't quite perfect, but everyone knew better than to put stuff right in the corners.

Then GE came out with the multi-orbital arm. Does exactly and precisely the same thing this does - it rotates the arm closer to the corners on the long legs of the rectangle and back in to just clear the short legs. The final design then added enough variations on this to even catch many improvidently placed glasses, plates and pans. Since the Tower of Power rotated, too (if not as well as the current middle arm), it got everything on both racks perfectly clean. This is the reason we've stuck with the Twenty Eight Hundred series, despite all her many, many quirky little ways.

 

This is the same thing, just in a different package.

 

Funny that it's always been GE to come up with this - wonder if the multi-orbital arm was patented and that's why their the only ones to 'discover' this?

 

What would really benefit from this would be an 18" full depth dishwasher.


Post# 911912 , Reply# 13   12/20/2016 at 09:46 (184 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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I imagine all their patents from the 2800 days are expired.
The engineer did say something interesting, and fictitious, that GE is the first company to come up with a mechanically gear driven arm with internal gears the user cannot see.
Which is far from the truth. Whirlpool's TotalCoverage arm with the sliding jet valves has a whole gear set that's water driven and internally hidden. And they came out with it a few years ago.

Either way, it's a brilliant design for the pesky upper rack where pressure is always less.


Post# 911916 , Reply# 14   12/20/2016 at 10:15 (184 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
I forgot about Whirlpool's arm

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I'm not a Whirlpool fan, so I tend to miss some of their ideas.

That's, right, though - and Bauknecht had a whirlygig thing-y like GE used after the multi-orbital for a while, too.

I guess the big difference is that the GE system they're showing us appears to be even more aggressive at hitting all the edges than any of the prior systems, especially the middle arms - only the multi-orbital design made a gesture toward that. This would really do it.

Have to, given the minimal pressure and water they use today.


Post# 911917 , Reply# 15   12/20/2016 at 10:25 (184 days old) by jkbff (Gladstone, ND)        

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Doesn't the total coverage arm still have a visible planetary gear? I know the KitchenAid dynamic wash does. LG and Samsung both have visible gears on their new wash systems.

Post# 911921 , Reply# 16   12/20/2016 at 10:58 (184 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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Whirlpool's wash arms have no visible gears.
On the KA and KM models, that "gear" looking thing you see from outside the machine under the spray arm, is really the fastening nut for the spray arm to the hub.
The gears are internal.


Post# 911923 , Reply# 17   12/20/2016 at 11:09 (184 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        
Kenmore

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I stand corrected!
Kenmore's multi-orbit arm does have an exposed gear.
But WP and KA do not.



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Post# 911929 , Reply# 18   12/20/2016 at 12:14 (184 days old) by jkbff (Gladstone, ND)        

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The kitchenaid one does, its just under the arm. Here is the best pic I can find.

Speaking of this arm, isn't the largest triangular arm the same concept as the GE Clean Sweep arm? If you watch the videos, that largest one's movement is synchronized so it is always in the corners as it passes by.


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Post# 913497 , Reply# 19   1/1/2017 at 14:29 by jp10558 (Southern Tier, NY, USA)        

Maybe it's changed a lot in water use since my Bosch 800 series I got about 4 years ago, but really the arms are probably the simplest thing in it, and they work amazingly well, including for glasses in the corners. I really had no idea this was a thing, even my first GE from 1999 that sucked for most things never had trouble washing our glasses. Then again, I don't dry peanut butter on the glasses either.

As to the third tray - that's one big thing, the V shaped 3rd tray for utensils that made me buy the Bosch 800 vs a Mielie with just the really short hight utensil tray, and vs the older 2 shelf systems. I just find I need the space. Then again, I also may just need a faster dishwasher - the 2:09 for the Bosh is "forever" and if one did the job as well in 45 minutes or so I could have less space / racks and do more loads. That said, when cooking I can run the Bosch basically all day / 4 - 5 loads to try and keep up.


Post# 931090 , Reply# 20   4/7/2017 at 17:40 by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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products.geappliances.com/applian...

This model seems to be hidden from their standard website still....I wonder why?
Is it still tooling for production?
They should launch this arm in their whole Profile line, now!
haha.


Post# 935530 , Reply# 21   4/30/2017 at 17:12 by appnut (TX)        

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This model was reviewed by Reviewed.com on April 26th.  An average review at best.  Suggests to go up higher in line if you expect better performance on average meat soils and such. 


Post# 935676 , Reply# 22   5/1/2017 at 13:16 by johnb300m (Chicago)        
puzzling.

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I was really surprised to read that review.
That machine is very similar to other GE models that they gave much higher reviews.
All I can think of is if GE maybe meddled with the cycle programming?
Or if that "breakthrough" middle wash arm somehow hinders performance in another regard?
Kind of puzzling.





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