Thread Number: 69101  /  Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
POD 2/3/17 TOL Whirlpool Suds-Miser: ATT'N Polkanut, Arkonman, & Suds Lovers
[Down to Last]

automaticwasher.org's exclusive eBay Watch:
scroll >>> for more items --- [As an eBay Partner, eBay may compensate automaticwasher.org if you make a purchase using any link to eBay on this page]
Post# 918929   2/3/2017 at 11:22 (2,610 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        

mickeyd's profile picture
Noted with glee that Mc Calls testing lab singled out the Suds-Miser as a best feature on this big beast. Nice to see the Magic-Mix lint filter as well. I don't know what year this machine hails from,
but my Mark XII, a later model, alas, lacks both the Magic-Mix and the Suds-Miser, long-time favorites, but it is a wonderful machine, nevertheless.

Do not remember seeing this model in our club. Mark has a real beauty, another later model, not this one. Wondered who else has Mark XII's and if we could have a show 'n tell or the next best thing.






Post# 918951 , Reply# 1   2/3/2017 at 12:43 (2,610 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        

mickeyd's profile picture
There's a half-century old article somewhere about how Whirlpool actually had the first automatic washer ready for production but held back till they tweaked the Suds-Miser to perfection. Their rationale was that people were about to make a significant transition in legendary washday routines, and that pumping out hot, sudsy, still clean water after one use, the infamous "clean whites" load, would not be acceptable. Whirlpool's theory proved correct in that wash water return systems were copied by almost every other manufactuter, and the early WP/KM's suds model were everywhere, almost the standard model for almost two decades.

Growing up a Frigidarian--beloved Geraldine did not at alI appreciate suds-saving, even as she washed white loads TWICE--I had to make do covertly, but even on Frigidaires, it's a real blast executing the the manual protocol. Suds return systems are gone for now, at least; instead we're forced to wash in quarts of water.


Post# 918952 , Reply# 2   2/3/2017 at 12:54 (2,610 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        

mickeyd's profile picture
Basically the same machine, the buttons have moved down a little bit; later the row was split in two and aligned in columns along the dial. All the cycle variety discussed in the Mc Call report is exhaustive and probably as good as it ever got, the wash and wear cycles among the biggest gas guzzlers of all times, rinsing and draining three times. Oh the water police are mad cows gone rogue ;'D.








Post# 918954 , Reply# 3   2/3/2017 at 12:59 (2,610 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
Added a tub light

mickeyd's profile picture
The color is Doeskin a favorite of John's and Greg's, even though in this light it tints toward avacado.`Some day I'll paint that little pool in the upper right.

Post# 918956 , Reply# 4   2/3/2017 at 13:03 (2,610 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
LJA is 1962.


Post# 918958 , Reply# 5   2/3/2017 at 13:07 (2,610 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
Surging with Surgilation

mickeyd's profile picture
The article mentions effective rinsing. Do you think Whirlpools and Kenmores rinse as well as Frigidaires and other overflow models. I ask for this reason: Not a big rinse person, myself, I have noticed more fragrance when I use the WP/KM's than when using the F's. The subtle scent of detergent appeals to me. Has anyone done any tests or have any research on rinsability?

Post# 918960 , Reply# 6   2/3/2017 at 13:09 (2,610 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
Hi Glenn, thanks.

mickeyd's profile picture
What year is mine?

Post# 918961 , Reply# 7   2/3/2017 at 13:10 (2,610 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
Here's the 1960

akronman's profile picture
Fully restored about 4 years ago, 5? and works darn well.

And it lights up! It's shiny!



  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 918967 , Reply# 8   2/3/2017 at 13:34 (2,610 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
Nice and a Suds, too! Thanks.

mickeyd's profile picture
What I was wondering: The Lady K's and the Mark XII's shared the smaller button design for a few years; then Lady K went to the large "piano"keys under the "garage door." I don't remember what later Mark XII's looked like during Kenmore's piano key years. I can't picture them, drawing a big blank. Did Whirlpool simply cease production of the Mark around that time?

Post# 918994 , Reply# 9   2/3/2017 at 16:40 (2,610 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
61 Mark XII

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 919020 , Reply# 10   2/3/2017 at 19:01 (2,610 days old) by seedub (South Texas Hill Country)        

seedub's profile picture
The lid is standing up but cocked at an angle like GE hinged-lid washers of that era. I don't recall WPs of that vintage or any being able to do that.

Post# 919022 , Reply# 11   2/3/2017 at 19:05 (2,610 days old) by seedub (South Texas Hill Country)        
Oops!

seedub's profile picture
Well, this is embarrassing - She's holding up the lid with her hand. It took three times looking at the picture before I caught that.

Post# 919024 , Reply# 12   2/3/2017 at 19:06 (2,610 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Do you think Whirlpools and Kenmores rinse as well as Frigidaires and other overflow models. I ask for this reason: Not a big rinse person, myself, I have noticed more fragrance when I use the WP/KM's than when using the F's. The subtle scent of detergent appeals to me. Has anyone done any tests or have any research on rinsability?

I have noticed the exact same thing scent-wise. After having these machines side by side and using them for nearly two decades I maintain that Frigidaire Unimatic washers rinse better not only because of the over-flow rinse but because of the high-speed spin between the wash and the rinse which removes more of the detergent laden water from the fabrics. Then the rinse water soaks into the drier clothes more effectively.


Post# 919125 , Reply# 13   2/4/2017 at 07:07 (2,609 days old) by polkanut (Wausau, WI )        

polkanut's profile picture

While I can appreciate the better rinsing capabilities of Frigidaires, like Mickey I also like the subtle detergent fragrance that is left behind in laundry washed in Whirlpools, Maytags etc. 


Post# 919126 , Reply# 14   2/4/2017 at 07:18 (2,609 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
I notice this

also at times.
My mom used to complain about her '63 Kennmore "70" not always rinsing well.
These machines as you know spray rinse before and following the deep rinse.
How much better can you rinse?
It had no overflow because it had the self clean filter.
Contemporary manufacturers seem to think water temp. has an effect, as do detergent makers. They say the hotter the water today, the less effective the detergent is. It may just be bunk.
HE top loaders for example do a short spray rinse after the wash water drain to flush out detergent from the tub bottom, then they spin slow, then either slow spin spray rinse, or deep rinse, depending on the cycle.
At any rate, dilution is the solution to how much detergent we use, as to any deconcentration of whatever is in water.
I do notice with towels, an extra rinse seems to make them softer. That is one deep rinse, followed by a short spray rinse.


Post# 919132 , Reply# 15   2/4/2017 at 08:17 (2,609 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

I think how well a whirlpool/kenmore rinses all depends on what and how much is in them. I have seen big loads scarcely get any turn over at all when rinsing and smaller loads get a decent turn over. The rinse is very short as far as agitation time. Sometimes just not enough agitation to actually stir the clothes enough to rinse them well.

Post# 919138 , Reply# 16   2/4/2017 at 08:30 (2,609 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

I am thinking that the machine pictured is just a prototype that was never mass produced. BTW, the '61 model pictured has a really cool dryer that matched it. It was similar to what Maytag made with one push button that automatically dryed the clothes. No time dry or timer that could be set at all. I am almost certain it was a '61 model, but could have possibly been '60 or somewhere within those years they made that TOL dryer. I once had the matching set, is why I remembered it so well. The washer timer had no markings to telll what cycle it was on, so you had to rely totally on the push buttons to land you at the right cycle. Must have been the 70's by then and I could not get the parts needed to fix the automatic dryness sensor control to make it work properly.

Post# 919143 , Reply# 17   2/4/2017 at 09:16 (2,609 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
I saved a picture (buried somewhere in 21.6 GB of files) that someone posted several years ago that shows a specimen of the 1962 Mark XII in storage at a scrapyard.


Post# 919158 , Reply# 18   2/4/2017 at 10:30 (2,609 days old) by Gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)        

Most of the detergents back in the day were very high sudsing compared to today's formulations.
Many machines were prone to suds-lock, some worse than others.
Kenmore/ Whirly's were some of the worst. A full load of heavy fabrics such as towels or jeans would be a guarentee of suds-lock. The machine could not get up to full speed since it was choked on suds, so there was plenty of chemicals and fragrance left in the clothes. When the machine stopped to fill for a deep-rinse there was a huge suds-cake left in the bottom. Sometimes the suds-lock would reoccur in the final spin. If the spray rinses didn't get rid of it, chances are the machine would end the cycle with bits of the suds-cake still on the clothes.
Lots of people got used to putting it all back through another rinse cycle.

My best friends mother tried for 30 years to choke her Maytag to death with FAB. She never succeeded but not because she didn't try.
Perf. Tub Blackstones, any Westinghouse, Frigidaire 1-18's, Filter-flows, any front-loader since the American housewife insisted on using at least a full cup of detergent in anything, many machines of the era come to mind.

Cheer,Tide,Fab,Rinso Blue, Duz, Super-Suds, Wisk, and soaps such as Ivory Snow and Fels.
Some of the worst offenders if overdosed.


Post# 919176 , Reply# 19   2/4/2017 at 11:29 (2,609 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
Hey Gansky--

akronman's profile picture
Thanks for the pics of the 61 model, very nice.

I usually go low suds detergent in a Kenmore, true. On the rare occasion when I have the dirtiest greasiest loads, I go for the Filter-Flo instead. Nevertheless, Kenmores are pretty darn good machines, long-lasting, part still available, etc. And when paired with a 66 or later Whirlpool/Kenmore dryer, you'll have a reliable set for decades.

Don't know why, but my huge capacity 1974 has never suds-locked. Maybe because the Penta-Swirl, while it certainly delivers turnover, doesn't get the water as sudsy as a Surgilato?


Post# 919179 , Reply# 20   2/4/2017 at 11:42 (2,609 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
Here is the '66 Mark XII dryer mentioned earlier. I love this dryer!

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 3         View Full Size
Post# 919192 , Reply# 21   2/4/2017 at 13:07 (2,609 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
Lovin' all the pics and fun discussion

mickeyd's profile picture
Not to mention the fact that the wash water, itself, in a Frigidaire, is diluted by a full half before the wash spin begins in models with the two minute overflow, once amusingly called the "Lint Away Wash," for a few years. In a way, you could say that Frigidaire invented the cooldown, way back in 1951, 2, or 3, whenever the double rinse morphed to the double overflow.

Ah, but Frigidaires could suds lock like nobody's business. my aunts on my dad's side all had Frigidaires like my Mom who was the oldest and who started Frigidaire Mania in the extended family and they all used ALL, all "regular" detergents verboten. Tide would pop that reset button like popping corn at the movie theatre! My grandmother didn't like low suds, so she used a just half cup of blue Cheer religiously.

Now I know why someone wanted the 66 Mark XII, if I was not going to make the purchase, and he so elegantly made no fuss. Know that when I'm taken into the conversion camp, the 66 will go to him till I return.

So.....as the Kenmore Keyboards were on the stage for years, what was the Whirlpool equivalent. My mind's eye is still drawing blanks.


Post# 919210 , Reply# 22   2/4/2017 at 14:02 (2,609 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

Whirlpool had the same basic thing, just not the giant piano key buttons. I also don't remember seeing a Whirlpool that was like the '59 Kenmore with only big buttons and no timer knob to set. It does seem strange that Whirlpool would make the fanciest looking models with Kenmore.

Post# 919217 , Reply# 23   2/4/2017 at 14:12 (2,609 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        

mickeyd's profile picture
Are there any pictures around of later WP's. Always wondered about that too! Why all the glitz for the KM's. The Shoe Cobbler's kids have bad shoes ;'D.

Another thing I've always wondered about: The Kenmores had EIGHT second sprays while the Whirlpool's were only five seconds. Found out later that the KM's switched to 5, too.

Any info on that, causes, rationale, etc?


Post# 919274 , Reply# 24   2/4/2017 at 18:11 (2,609 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Whirlpool stopped the pushbutton-programmed-timers in the mid 1960s, maybe 1966 or 1967?  It remained exclusive to Kenmore.  The TOL Imperial Mark XII went to pushbuttons for five temp combos, three agitate speeds, two spin speeds, rotary water level, and a "standard" timer with (Super) Normal, (Super) WnW/Perm Press, and Gentle (Knit was included in the mid 1970s).  Super-capacity 18# was redubbed Imperial Mark 18 (then Solid State Mark Series for the electronics).

This was the last of the Imperial Mark 18 models (which dropped to a two-speed motor instead of three-speed).


  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 919280 , Reply# 25   2/4/2017 at 18:24 (2,609 days old) by appnut (TX)        
huge capacity 74 never suds locked

appnut's profile picture

Mark, my hypothesis is that the drain period was 4 minutes long and allowed more time for excess water to drip out of the heavy load before it spun.  I've not been able to get any ex large capacity Kenmore to suds lock either. 


Post# 919445 , Reply# 26   2/5/2017 at 11:39 (2,608 days old) by Kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)        
I agree with Bob

kenmoreguy64's profile picture
Was just about to post that the four minute drain may be monotonous for us washer watchers to endure and seem a nutty wasteful of time, but it does indeed do wonders to diminish suds before spin.

When using my 1967 24-inch straight vane machine, it occasionally suds locks, even with today's lower suds detergents. Another straight vane machine can be right next to it (with a four minute drain) same detergent, similar load, no lock or even a hint of it.

There is something else though that helps the older large capacity belt drives: they have a tub outlet hose that has probably twice the diameter going into the tub manifold. Suds are far more likely to fall out of the tub into the drain system before they have a chance to lock with this wider hose. I am not sure I have ever seen a large cap machine suds lock, and we had a water softener with ours.

The four minute drain must be the largest part of the combination there though, as the revised 1981+ energy saver BDs reverted back to the original outlet hose.

Gordon


Post# 919479 , Reply# 27   2/5/2017 at 14:52 (2,608 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        

mickeyd's profile picture
Glenn ~

Thank you for those handsome, striking photos, and for providing me with the answer to a long standing question, and for focusing the question better than I did. So the 66 may have been the last of the programmed, stop 'n lock dials, and that's why my mind kept drawing blanks, and rightly so: There weren't any. Very Comfortting ;'D

Do you have any information on the curious divergence in the time span of the spray rinses between the KM 8 second sprays versus the WP 5 second ones, and then the KM reversal to 5 second sprays in 1965? It intrigues the heck out of me.



Forum Index:       Other Forums:                      



Comes to the Rescue!

The Discuss-o-Mat has stopped, buzzer is sounding!!!
If you would like to reply to this thread please log-in...

Discuss-O-MAT Log-In



New Members
Click Here To Sign Up.



                     


automaticwasher.org home
Discuss-o-Mat Forums
Vintage Brochures, Service and Owners Manuals
Fun Vintage Washer Ephemera
See It Wash!
Video Downloads
Audio Downloads
Picture of the Day
Patent of the Day
Photos of our Collections
The Old Aberdeen Farm
Vintage Service Manuals
Vintage washer/dryer/dishwasher to sell?
Technical/service questions?
Looking for Parts?
Website related questions?
Digital Millennium Copyright Act Policy
Our Privacy Policy