Thread Number: 69228  /  Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
Bendix Powersurge, Philco top load with wobbling abitator, Apex top load. 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 920525   2/10/2017 at 14:09 (2,623 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Guys, i need some help URGENTLY.

I need to find ASAP somebody that has a Bendix Powersurge (first option) or a Philco top load with the wobbling agitator or an Apex washer. (or whatever model that used vibration instead of a spinning agitator or impeller except Whirlpool Calypso). We can't even think about using the Frigidaire "up and down" pulsator or the Kelvinator wobbling agitator.

What i need from these washers:

Pictures, videos, documentation, patent drawings, etc. If I can see it live AND FUNCTIONAL it's even better. I need as much information as possible, specially the mechanical parts that create the wobbling motion.

I prefer people from Los Angeles but, as a last resource, if i can't find anything nearby, the company I work for can sponsor a trip to visit who has it if the washer owner can't take pictures or make videos.

I am not authorized to give any details but as you can wonder, The Laundry Alternative is willing to use those concepts as an "inspiration" for a future model (DESIGNED AND MADE IN USA BEFORE SOMEBODY ASKS)

As a reward, who helps me with this project will get a washer for free when it's launched or the person chan choose whatever The Laundry Alternative model we have nowadays.

I know Robert has an Apex, but other times i needed him and he very politely said no, I don't really think he has time enough to help, so I didn't even ask him directly because I know he's very busy. Also, the Apex concept is my last option.




Post# 920528 , Reply# 1   2/10/2017 at 14:13 (2,623 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

You can contact me using the AWO email system, or direct email support@laundry-alternative.com or phone 661 238-6684 (my cell phone) or toll free +1(888)813-9559 and ask to talk with Thomas Banton.

Post# 920532 , Reply# 2   2/10/2017 at 15:25 (2,623 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

That is very interesting, you should definitely contact Robert though, he may surprise you and he has all the machines anyone could ever want.

Post# 920559 , Reply# 3   2/10/2017 at 17:55 (2,623 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Bendix, Avco, Philco owned the patents for the Powersurge and the Philco Phlapolator. Whirlpool borrowed the concept and maybe some technology to make the wash plate nutate, but I am not sure if the man at the Calypso training session mentioned anything about patent rights so I don't know if they have expired. Club member Gansky found one of the Bendix Powersurge Washers a long time ago when the world and this club were young. There are non-incriminating videos, possibly on YouTube, of the washer operating.
Post# 920636 , Reply# 4   2/11/2017 at 01:31 (2,623 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Thanks for the info!

It reminds me industrial design version of Lavoisier law that we always mentioned in college:
In nature (of our dirty business) nothing is created, nothing is substracted, nothing is added. Everything transforms into a new invention based on Ctrl-C Ctrl-V.

I'm loving my job at The Laundry Alternative, completelly different from Electrolux. The CEO has the guts to think out of the box and it's mandatory for the development team. He won't accept anything "ordinary".

Right now i have over 10 projects confirmed to start. only one is a regular spin dryer, not much to do. It's a drum that spins, period. but all the other projects are different. Most of them will be inspired on the best years of laundry design (post war), when the companies had an urgency to innovate and who dictated were the engineers and designers, not the marketing or financial executives.

Of course I'd never "copy" something. that's ridiculous. But get some inspiration to invent new concepts, why not? I did that in the past with a Unimatic Washer and it worked (Electrolux Top8 in Brazil and its derivates), why not do the same nowadays?

Yep, we may end up seeing a wobling washer. why not? While everybody follows the Whirlpool impeller/dual action agitator beaten path, we will run the opposite direction and think about the forgotten ones.

As a designer, I'm frustrated because i see everybody doing the same thing. Come on, let's do something different! The McWashers we have nowadays are so boring!

By the way, I'm always open to listen to new ideas.

Post# 920651 , Reply# 5   2/11/2017 at 04:08 (2,623 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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Make another thumper like the Frigidaires were.  I'd buy one!
Post# 920878 , Reply# 6   2/12/2017 at 01:33 (2,622 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

I'd love to do that. However, now even when i was at Electrolux we could think about doing that.

Reason: Absurd production cost.
Reason 2: Electrolux (That owns all frigidaire patents) would cut my head and serve it on a tray for breaking their patents.

Post# 921048 , Reply# 7   2/13/2017 at 03:06 (2,621 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

What I would love to see is a high speed spinner with some guts to it.

I'd love something that could handle a full 12 kg load of clothing and has a 1 HP motor connected to a gearbox for a wicked 3000 RPM spin @ 60 hz power. As well as a decent suspension system that can handle the vibration. (It wouldn't hurt for it to have thermal protection as well.)

It would also help if it was made from heavy gauge stainless steel so it was explosion proof and that the inner tub was made from one piece of stainless steel.

Right now, I have a laundry spinner, but I find it's almost gutless and it can't handle anything more than 6 kg of clothing, so I have to spin two "loads" of clothing in it with one standard load. As well, balancing it is a pain at times. The motor isn't powerful enough to get the load spinning if it isn't balanced very well.

I would love to be able to wash pillows and then put them into an extractor so that they dry faster. Right now, that's not really an option with what I have.

Right now, there really isn't anything on the market that is a high speed spinner that isn't something like what I already have now.. (The Laundry Alternative already sells spinners like what I have I think.)

I think I would gladly pay something around $500-$1000 for something like this, knowing that it could shave tons of drying time and energy.

Post# 921049 , Reply# 8   2/13/2017 at 03:10 (2,621 days old) by qualin (Canada)        

Oh, I thought I'd just want to apologize for hijacking the thread a little. I realized that my last post was a bit off topic..

In saying that though, I did recall seeing a washer made in Russia that used a really unique corkscrew agitator that spun at a high speed to agitate the clothing.

Although, now that I'm thinking about it, have all of the Easy patents expired? It might be worth it to look into the corkscrew style agitators that Easy used. Other members with Easy machines have deliberately overloaded their machines and they seem to handle the load much better than how a conventional agitator machine would.

Post# 921059 , Reply# 9   2/13/2017 at 05:20 (2,620 days old) by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

Please excuse my ignorance, but I thought the whole point of patents is to have the rights for a limited time and can have limited number of extensions, so the total time a patent is (or can be) active is about 20-25 years? That, of course, is in exchange for putting the ideas in the public domain after the expiration time?

And that significant improvements to a patent generates a new patent, so people from a competing company can improve on an idea in some non-obvious way and get a new patent?

I *thought* that by now anything that doesn't have much in common with the Calypso and the Neptune (with the rotating disks in a vertical tub) would mostly be fair game.

Cheers,
   -- Paulo.

Post# 921119 , Reply# 10   2/13/2017 at 12:52 (2,620 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Qualin

You didn't hijack the post... I love ideas and I pay attention to all of them, even if they sound stupid. Someday somebody at GM had the "stupid" idea of an agitator that moves up and down. completelly out of the box... the result was a great washer that probably everybody loves until today.


About the spin dryer... well... We have a similar product, it is actually the biggest household spin dryer in the world and it can handle huge loads (a king size duvet) but it was made under the modern standards... we can't have a 3000rpm spin dryer (i'd love to make that) because or the regulation standards.

At the speed we are allowed to use, it doesn't make sense to use metal, otherwise if would be 3x more expensive and shipping would also be absurd because of the weight. Instead we use modern plastics (the drum is kevlar, more resistant than steel, literally bulletproof). and the speed is on the maximum limit allowed

Post# 921202 , Reply# 11   2/13/2017 at 21:52 (2,620 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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First of all patents in the United States only last 17 years and unlike copyright they cannot be renewed, so 17 years after the patent was issued the design can be used by anyone legally without having to pay. All of the patents of our favorite washer designs have long expired. This is why 17 years after the patent was issued for the Dual-Action agitator by Whirlpool, the design started showing up in other non-Whirlpool brands. Frigidaire's up and down agitator as well as Kelvinator's orbital agitator patents expired nearly 50 years ago. If you read Whirlpool's patent on its Calypso agitating system, you see they do cite some of Philco's original patents in the process, but they had long expired before Whirlpool considered such a design.

The Bendix/Philco power surge wobbling agitator would not really produce a high efficiency washer as required today. You need nearly a full tub of water to make that work. The Apex wobbling basket was the first high efficiency top loading vertical-axis washer. It's downfall back in the 1950's was low-sudsing detergents were not anywhere near as effective as they are today. An Apex style machine I would think would be the best bet in today's resource saving environment. I think the Apex could be redesigned to use even less water in the wash, as 2/3 of the 6 or so gallon fill was bounced over the top of the wobbling basket by the end of a 10 minute wash period.

Kevin in LA has the only other Apex know to exist besides the one in my basement. I do not know whether that machine has been restored to working condition.

Post# 921226 , Reply# 12   2/14/2017 at 01:00 (2,620 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Robert, you're AMAZING!

I didn't know that patents last only 17 years here in the US. In Brazil they last 50 years and can be renewed.

Our company knows a trick to deal with the HE mandatory standards, That's why we're about to launch a washer that can fill the tub up to the top, with HOT water. (for the same reason nobody will ever see a The Laundry Alternative washer sold in stores, only online.)

The Apex is the "Plan C". If nothing else works on the Bendix idea, then the plan B is a Philco/Ford and then finally the Apex. However as somebody said before, the Apex is a very interesting "HE" concept that came true decades before somebody think that all top loaders would be HE someday. However, if I have any success with the Bendix, then the Apex will immediately turn into a parallel project. The plan is "bring back" as much as we can, of course considering the modern limitations. Some models, unfortunately, are impossible to be launched nowadays because we have to deal with the millenials and "smart" lawyers. Luckily they're a minimal % or our customers but you know, we just need one finger hurt by a wringer to be sued in a couple of dozens of millions. Just in case, we double the mandatory standards regarding safety and as you can see our products are full of redundant safety features.

Robert, this afternoon i had a 2 hour meeting with the company CEO and your name was mentioned maybe 100 times. I'm sure he'll contact you very soon (if he hadn't done it already).

I didn't know Kevin has an Apex. I'll text him right now! Thanks for the info!



Post# 921271 , Reply# 13   2/14/2017 at 09:07 (2,619 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Thomas patents in Brazil only last 20 years and cannot be renewed. A renewal system for patents would completely destroy the purpose of patents limited time so improvement on an idea can be made from what is called "prior art".

Post# 921320 , Reply# 14   2/14/2017 at 13:21 (2,619 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Robert, they last longer there. I never had to personally deal with patents but I remember when I was at Electrolux that the engineering manual mentioned that and maybe 2 or 3 times i had some of my concepts returned and not validated because of that.

Electrolux had a department only to check that for us and to patent our concepts.


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