Thread Number: 69266  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
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Post# 920856   2/11/2017 at 23:12 (492 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Started just using my phone to record the videos, rather than the GoPro, because the phone doesn't distort the view with that weird fisheye look the way the GoPro does even with distortion correction turned on (which is why in some of the previous videos, it looks like there's a 1-mile gap between the tub and cabinet, when there isn't, and also made the bottom of the tub look more narrow than the top).

Anyhow, here's a fully loaded Normal cycle of darks, but without the extended pretreat phase like the last video, taking the time down from 1:30 to :58 minutes. I tried to angle the camera a bit better so that movement and rollover were more visible. Enjoy. :)

Post# 920858 , Reply# 1   2/11/2017 at 23:20 (492 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Also, here's a video of a much smaller load, though what would have amounted to a medium-large load in the 3.4 cu.ft tub of the Whirlpool agitator machine. This is using the Colors/Towels cycle, which I don't use often because the pretreat and wash portions are much shorter, but the machine is much more liberal with water use on wash/rinse than the Normal cycle, while still maintaining HE water usage and bloom rollover.

It's actually really cool (and less time consuming) to watch the videos on 2x speed, and you can also see quite well the amount of movement and rollover on the loads in both videos. Just hit the little gear icon at the bottom of the video screen and you'll see the speed option, unless you're on a mobile device. For some reason that feature hasn't made it to the "app" version of YouTube.

I've gotten requests in some of the comments and messages for different cycle/load types, including the Clean Washer cycle, so I may be working on that next, since there don't seem to be good videos of the Oasis machines' self-clean cycles available anywhere.

Post# 920877 , Reply# 2   2/12/2017 at 01:31 (492 days old) by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

Is there any possible way to run a cycle with a deep fill in this washer?

Post# 920880 , Reply# 3   2/12/2017 at 02:06 (492 days old) by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        

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Thomas, the Bulky cycle fills right to the top on both the wash and rinse portions of the cycle.

Post# 920883 , Reply# 4   2/12/2017 at 02:12 (492 days old) by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

Hummmm, that's good!

Post# 920904 , Reply# 5   2/12/2017 at 09:06 (492 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        

and "hand wash" fills the tub a third to almost half full.
Not sure which I prefer, this, or the new one with the dual action agitator with the cork screw action if I were considering another top loader.

Post# 920919 , Reply# 6   2/12/2017 at 10:31 (491 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

After watching this video, I am amazed. I find it incredible that manufacturers would make something so complicated and that take so long to do a job with the same amount of water a front load machines uses. Top load machines were simply not made to do that and will NEVER do as good a job at it. In addition, they are MUCH harder on the clothing and create a LOT of linting and wear and do a very poor job of rinsing with no water. I watched as it spent the first 20 minutes attempting to get all the clothes wet with sudsy water and then wash them with just enough water to barely cover the impeller in the bottom. Say what you will about it, but the proof is right there to look at and see with your own eyes. Say it again, top load washing machines are NOT designed to wash clothes with small amounts of water. Front load machines are, do it well without any linting or wear to clothing and rinse well also.

Post# 920924 , Reply# 7   2/12/2017 at 10:57 (491 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        
The proof is right there

Exactly. He uses this machine for more then a year as a daily driver, and testaments that it really works, with not to much wear and perfect results.

You know the Whirlpool Catalyst design? Got it right there.
Rinsing is literally the same as in a LG TurboWash: Spray rinse, deep rinse.
Taking longer: Possibly, yeah.

Post# 920926 , Reply# 8   2/12/2017 at 10:57 (491 days old) by twintubdexter (Palm Springs)        
My age is really showing...

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What in the world is that thing doing? Filling, spinning, filling, spinning a dozen times and then washing (I guess) in a cup or two of water...all the while making noises that sound like it's not having a good day. Old people like me remember when washers filled, washed, spun water out, then filled, rinsed, did a final spin and shut off. Occasionally there was an option for a second rinse. Watching that first video makes me realize that the world and most of it's high-technology has passed me by. I did like the videos.


I wonder what will happen if I ever have to replace my current Maytag?...purchased new 16 1/2 years ago with one self-repair, a new pump from Amazon, $12.95. 

Post# 920930 , Reply# 9   2/12/2017 at 11:07 (491 days old) by henene4 (Germany)        
Filling, spinnin, filling etc.

Basicly, preatreating. Imagine taking all your detergent, dissolving it in some water, and the spreading it over all the items, wringing them out, spreading the detergent again, over and over.

Basicly, a high concentration soak. Like the Catalyst, just with less watter and way longer.

Post# 920939 , Reply# 10   2/12/2017 at 12:01 (491 days old) by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Great Videos

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These machines are not complicated machines, they are far less compared than your Samsung washer Bruce and probably more durable and easier to repair in the long run.

Post# 920952 , Reply# 11   2/12/2017 at 14:44 (491 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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I see were going to beat this like a dead horse......

but the bottom line is, this is the future, and it ain't going to change....get used to it....if anything, you may see even less water....we are never going to go back to the way things were.....

these machines work as intended, and like it or not, once you get past the mental part, do a great job at cleaning your clothes, and rinsing them clear and clean.....

this concept is like mentioned, Catalyst, like washing your hands, a little bit of water, and a high concentration of detergent, a soak even, which is more than effective of removing stains.......and a saturated rinse or two, and a high speed spin.....

speaking of saturated rinses.....if you were to rinse out your cleaning cloth, do you fill the sink full of water, and swish it around?.......or do you run it under the faucet, squish it a few times, and then one final squeeze?....same concept!

the cycle that is being used in this video is 'Normal', which for the most part, is most economical for resources......most likely I would have selected Colors, or Sheets, which would have processed the load with more water....

I have an older version, there is not any excess wear and tear to be seen....that's just a bunch of bull.....

I have demonstrated this machine during every event I ever had....and have blown every negative thought out the window....

Post# 920972 , Reply# 12   2/12/2017 at 16:26 (491 days old) by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        

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Martin, thanks for your rational perspective on these machines. And your analogy about rinsing a cleaning cloth was right on. I've been using my Maytag MWVC415EW now for 2 mo. and have washed every kind of load imaginable with excellent results. My machine does offer a 2nd rinse option, but I have never found this to be necessary. The amount of water used, while way less than a traditional TL is way more than the new generation on FL's. And the water that is used is more than adequete to wash and rinse thoroughly. To me it seems about the same amount of water that my 1987 Westinghouse FL used. I haven't regretted this purchase at all. And for those people that do want a full fill the Bulky cycle fills that need. And the hot water temp. doesn't seem to be dumbed down unreasonably. I think that Maytag got this one right.

Post# 920983 , Reply# 13   2/12/2017 at 18:17 (491 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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It's funny; this mention that the machine "doesn't clean, doesn't rinse, is hard on clothes, uses a cup of water". Apparently I missed the memo somewhere. In two years owning and using a HE top loader, I've not had a hair of damage done to any clothing. There are towels I own that came from my childhood that are washed regularly and haven't lost a string. Not once have I had a tear, or hole, or thread pulled loose on a single garment of clothing owned in this house. And after going back to using the Atlantis and the WTW4800 agitator washers I have for a couple of weeks, in addition to using family machines that are standard conventional washers, I will *never* go back to using a full fill agitator washer as a daily machine ever again. Yes, the Atlantis was a Cadillac in its time, and the 4800 is a fantastic washer, but once you've had a taste of what it's like to never need to presoak or pretreat clothes, to wash easily twice what your previous washers could, and to dry said double-sized load in half the time because the HE machine spins them to barely damp, going back to a conventional machine is like going back to sweeping carpet and beating rugs instead of using a vacuum cleaner.

And the notion that "it doesn't rinse"? It seems that if the machine weren't properly rinsing the clothes, I should have cloudy sudsy water whenever using a wash cloth in the shower or a dish cloth in the sink before adding dish soap, but somehow the water is always clear. Darn. Guess I missed that memo too, lol.

It also seems that the very people who endlessly bash and dismiss the machines are also the ones who have never bothered to try using one. But what can you do.

Post# 920986 , Reply# 14   2/12/2017 at 18:24 (491 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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I also just grabbed about a minute of the load of towels washing at the moment, to try out the upload function on the iOS YouTube app. Here you'll see that pesky thimbleful of water that is somehow up 3/4 of the tub, and there is *absolutely* no rollover. The items you see blooming and rolling evenly and fluidly to the outside and back again? Just a myth. An optical illusion. That steam on the window? Also a Whirlpool illusion. The water reads at 112F and our water heater set to 130, but trust me, that water is ice cold. People who don't own the machine and have never used one told me so, so it must be true.

Anyhow, I'm going to try getting some pretty good videos in the future now that I can just use my phone, so enjoy this preview in the meantime. :)

Post# 920992 , Reply# 15   2/12/2017 at 18:48 (491 days old) by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        

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My experience with my Maytag HE TL is just as Andrew's. I agree that you really need to use one of these machines to fully appreciate and understand how well they work. Andrew's last video is just how my machine washes, except mine has the agipeller instead of the impeller like his, but the wash action is the same. I think the concentrated detergent combined with the blooming wash action does a great job of removing stains, while still being gentle. I've also experienced no damage to any clothing, no linting at all and no tangling. I really don't know where some of these ideas about these machines come from.

Post# 921009 , Reply# 16   2/12/2017 at 20:13 (491 days old) by twintubdexter (Palm Springs)        

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I'm sure you are 100% correct. I honestly never thought I'd morph into one of those oldsters that poke fun at "them new-fangeled contraptions" but apparently that's what's happened. Those Bravos machines sure look very high-tech and I'm certain they do a great job of cleaning clothes. People probably felt the same way about automatics when they first hit the scene compared to their trusty old wringers.

Post# 921036 , Reply# 17   2/13/2017 at 00:07 (491 days old) by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

Very interesting comments...

Some months ago, i laughed at the WonderWash. Come on... a jar with a hand crank? Ridículous!

Corey (my boss) forced me to try one... I was sure it was going to be a disaster. I did it with rolling eyes and only to make sure i was right, i did the official standarized test in the lab. I was sure the stain stripes would come out the same way they enter the jar.

When i opened the lid, I was shocked. The test load was impressively clean! I didn't even bother to use the spectrometer, the white was visibly white.

Now I think i'm making the same mistake. I'll have to try one. I always liked the Maytag XXL, that huge washer i always see at sears outlet or home depot. Now you convinced me to try that monster.

Filing an internal request to the big boss right now.

Post# 921045 , Reply# 18   2/13/2017 at 01:16 (491 days old) by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

How can somebody be so stupid?

OMG! The rings on the bottom and top of the drum are full of water! Terrible engineering... how is the washer ballance the load with all that water in those rings? Why would Maytag dare to put a ring full of water in a machine? didn't they notice that during the engineering? ROFL

Post# 921047 , Reply# 19   2/13/2017 at 02:17 (491 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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What's even more sad is how many people searching YouTube who may find his video and drill out their balance rings ...

Post# 921053 , Reply# 20   2/13/2017 at 04:34 (491 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

That last video is pretty funny, I admit and maybe I am just being change resistant. I am just happy that there are other alternatives to an HE top load washer like this one. I really do like my front load machine as far as results go. I do miss some of the older top load machines I once used, even though they used much more water. I just can never see myself having an HE top load machine. They do seem to have MUCH more problems and issues than front loaders. I still find it difficult to imagine them doing nearly as good a job as a front loader. Even the worst washer I have ever used, did an adequate job washing most of my clothes.

Post# 921060 , Reply# 21   2/13/2017 at 06:14 (491 days old) by djones28 (North Carolina)        

In a hurry a few weeks ago when our Samsung top loader flooded our laundry room, we quickly picked up the smaller version of this. Because of issues with our septic tank through the years, I decided to monitor how much water the Maytag Bravos used on the normal cycle (which I understand to mean a more Eco cycle now) and at 4.3 cu. ft. capacity, and properly loading it. One time had a load about 3/4 full on Normal, and then did a full load on the Power Wash setting and our machine was using 30 gallons of water no matter what. I did not see how much water was used when I did the bedding cycle, but assume it was at least 50 gallons. I monitored from the water meter outside and did the loads when no other water was in use. I was a bit shocked by these amounts, I assumed HE meant lower water usage more along the lines of a front loader. Mine does do the same as the first few videos posted.

Post# 921122 , Reply# 22   2/13/2017 at 13:06 (490 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
I believe Andrew

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when he says these get his clothes clean. I'm sure if it didn't get them cleaned and rinsed well he would not own it.

I prefer FL washers though for myself. I'm sure my Duet does NO better of a job that this machine. FL is just my preference. But these are super cool looking machines.

Post# 921128 , Reply# 23   2/13/2017 at 13:59 (490 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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And I have the exact opinion Mark has. 

Post# 921147 , Reply# 24   2/13/2017 at 14:50 (490 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
Different technologies are scary

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Seven years ago when I bought my first front loader, I was skeptical.  Having always had top loading machines, I wasn't sure my clothes would come clean with a small amount of water.


I was proven wrong.  My clothes are whiter, less linting, and appear to last longer than with previous machines. 


I purposely avoided the HE top loaders when I bought my machine, because I had heard stories of shredding towels (My nephew's wife always overloads), and poor performance.  


After these videos, I would consider an HE top loader in the future.  I can't honestly say I couldn't be swayed elsewhere, but it is not out of consideration; at least I wouldn't be afraid of a bad purchase if I got one.




Post# 921963 , Reply# 25   2/17/2017 at 08:54 (487 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney)        

"....we are never going to go back to the way things were..... "

We may not go back, but people are choosing to hang on. Over here reconditioned Speed Queen washers sell for more than a thousand bucks and come with a 2 year warranty. There are enough consumers, absolutely desperate for traditional top loading agitator washers, willing to part with large amounts of money to get what they want. People now hang on to their 20 year old Maytags and Speed Queens and having them repaired rather than buying new. Whilst most (young) consumers will buy HE machines, there are plenty of others who continue to want traditional washers with traditional functions and options and that has created a new niche market. Speed Queen and Whirlpool's Maytag range continue to cater to that consumer demand and so do Fisher and Paykel over here.

Post# 922136 , Reply# 26   2/18/2017 at 06:47 (486 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

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I'm not going to even comment about some of these posts. It's like trying to talk to a Trump supporter. Just turn around and walk the other way! :-/

Excellent videos as usual Andrew! You have a beautiful machine.

Post# 922138 , Reply# 27   2/18/2017 at 07:58 (486 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

Perhaps it is just my failure to be able to accept a completely different way of washing clothes. It does seem to do at least an adequate job of washing and rinsing. I already accepted the fact that front load machines do a good job of washing and rinsing with much less water, partly due to the many years I ran a commercial laundry with front load machines. It just seems to be harder on the clothing, produces more linting and seems really difficult for the machine to do it's job. A front load machines seems to do it with ease and has less trouble with unbalanced loads. I know there are lots of horror stories on you tube about top load HE machines going off balance and "exploding", although they don't actually explode. Just seems much simpler to have a front load machine and easier on your clothes too. I guess this would not be going on if it were not for energy and resource conservation, which is a good thing. The old top load machines did an excellent job, even the worse ones, but they used a great deal of water. Makes me think that maybe it would have been better just to start having them all with suds savers again, that would save water too. And have a clean clear rinse for each load. Oh well, not up to me.

Post# 922165 , Reply# 28   2/18/2017 at 11:44 (485 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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I completely understand your feelings Bruce. While I can't speak from experience because I've never owned or really gotten to use a front loader (except from the nasty ones the few times I've had to go to a laundromat), I can certainly see front loaders being the most gentle on fabrics of all machines, however, because I've been lucky enough to be able to "hotswap" machines and use the WTW4800 agitator washer, and the Maytag Atlantis, in succession with the BravosXL while using the same dryer and same detergent/additives, I did notice a substantially heavier amount of lint in the dryer's lint filter. This was with loads half the size of what the BravosXL handles on a typical basis simply because of capacity limitations of the two agitator machines. In theory this should mean that the HE TL actually causes half the linting the other machines do. In addition to that, I found myself having to cut loose strings from towels and other items when washed and dried from the agitator machines, where I've had to do very little of that at all with the BravosXL, and it's typically only with towels that have fringe on the edges, or towels that are nearly as old as I am. It was also actually shocking to me just how drastically different the cleaning results were between the machines. The two agitator machines failed miserably with staining of kitchen towels and dish cloths, as well as underarm stains, that the BravosXL removes on a regular basis with no manual pretreating. Twice the detergent, twice the water, half the capacity, yet couldn't get rid of grease spots and sauce stains the first time. Throw in drying time being doubled as well, and I was more than ready to go back to the HE washer.

I'd also agree with you about older top loaders, even the worst of them, doing an adequate job. A Frigi-WCI Franklin transmission washer was nothing compared to the Maytags, Lady K belt-drives, or KitchenAid DDs at the time, but they still did an adequate job despite being hated by some. There will always be better and worse when it comes to any product. In that light, I'll likely never touch an LG/Samsung built HE top-loader. There are some people who love them, but from my observations watching a full cycle video and hearing from those who own them, the load seems to simply swish back and forth, spinning one way and the other as one mass of clothes, but not really rolling over or moving around much. I'm sure the machines still do an adequate job, but there is a stark difference in the design and behavior of those machines versus ones built by Whirlpool or Fisher&Paykel. HE TL's seem to have a reputation of "not moving the clothes, not using enough water, being harsh on fabrics", and that's true for some machines, however in my experience, the Whirlpool/F&P designed TLs are the only ones that will uniformly bloom and roll the load over while still being relatively gentle on clothing, while also managing to use less water and laundry additives.

Post# 922167 , Reply# 29   2/18/2017 at 11:53 (485 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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I cannot imagine doing laundry without an onboard heater and being able to reach temps of 150+ degrees when needed as well as 130 degrees.  So many models of front loaders have heaters and maybe only the TOL "top loader" does.  I keep my Whirlpool Energy Smart Water heater set on Energy Smart mode and 120 degrees.  I let the dishwasher and washer heater water when needed. My partner has learned improved laundry habits from me, but he still sees significantly cleaner, far more difficult soil/stains removal than his "shredmore" Admiral. 

Post# 922203 , Reply# 30   2/18/2017 at 16:41 (485 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        

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I know what you mean about the LG HE TL washers. I've watched videos on them and they do use more water and spin the water in both directions, which is kind of cool to watch. But I don't see it blooming the load of clothes as you described that you can see happening on 2x speed. That low water/concentrated detergent/blooming combination must be what gets rid of those stubborn stains, but the rinses? You would think they would use a little more water to get that detergent out, NO? My duet does not do high level rinses but uses the same amount of water as it does in the wash. I've always wished it would use a little more to rinse, but there are multiple rinses so I guess that gets it out. I always always use extra rinse which gives me three rinses with high spin between each rinse.

Post# 922251 , Reply# 31   2/18/2017 at 19:36 (485 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

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I've watched LG videos of full wash cycles (2+ hours) at 4x speed on my phone and the clothes do move around - but more in a chaotic fashion, rather than rolling over. I see it as more of an "active soak", while the Cabrio actually moves the clothes around and scrubs each item clean. Now... that Extra Rinse option should also include a spin cycle, I think. Other than that, I think these older Cabrios were pretty good washers.

Post# 922386 , Reply# 32   2/19/2017 at 11:52 (484 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        

I appreciate you taking the time to upload these videos. I know it is a pain but I thoroughly enjoy them! This has given me a much better appreciation for these machines! Thanks again!

Post# 923264 , Reply# 33   2/22/2017 at 22:32 (481 days old) by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

Living and Learning....

I'm still SHOCKED with the Maytag Bravos XXL washer performance and design.

It is simply amazing. it works incredibly well.

Post# 923279 , Reply# 34   2/23/2017 at 04:50 (481 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

From watching the difference between top load HE washers and front load HE washers it seems to be this: front load washers actually lift and drop the clothes through the water to clean them. They do that with no wear or abrasion to clothing and all and any lint that may be present is dropped through the holes in the tub and flushed away. A top load HE machine has to try and clean with a minimum amount of water also, it does this by moving the clothes with an agitator or impeller or something in between that actually grinds or wears against the clothing to move them, causing wear and linting. It does seem to clean the clothing as it does this. I do see the "blooming" effect, but the abrasion against the clothing is what is causing that. Which do YOU think is easier on your clothing and causes less linting?

Post# 923288 , Reply# 35   2/23/2017 at 06:37 (481 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

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I've never seen a FL washer that "lifts" clothes...they tumble on top of each other in the drum and clean by using friction as well. I saw no difference in wear and tear between the 2 types of machines. Only noticeable difference I saw was an increased amount of wear using a traditional TL washer.

Same thing for lint...actually my Kenmore 28102 did a much better job of getting rid of lint than the LG FL set I used. Even after using the dryer my stuff still had pet hair all over it.

Post# 923327 , Reply# 36   2/23/2017 at 09:59 (481 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Depends no the load size

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it does lift/drop/splash if you do a load that, when loading the machine with dry dirty clothes, you fill it about 80% full - by the time the clothes are wet, they have a lot of room to lift drop......but on large loads where you end up with saturated clothes and the machine is half full while tumbling the clothes, they do end up not lifting and dropping as much

Post# 923329 , Reply# 37   2/23/2017 at 10:08 (481 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

Tis true about how big a load you have and I have found no machine that gets completely rid of hair, one of the reasons I have a dog that doesn't shed. But as far as wear, an HE top load machine is MUCH harder on clothing than any front load machine.

Post# 923348 , Reply# 38   2/23/2017 at 11:20 (480 days old) by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        

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Bruce, with all due respect, have you ever actually USED an HE TL? If not, you should before you state with certainty that they are harder on the clothes, and create more lint. I have owned and used just about every type of washer there is, wringer, twin tub, portable TL, traditional TL, old school FL, newer generation FL's and HE TL, both 1st and 2nd generations. They all have their strenghts and weaknesses. I appreciate that you worked in the commercial laundry business and have a great knowledge base from your experience. But you can't really discount the experiences that others have withtheir HE TL's, simply based upon watching several videos of them in action.

The choice of a washer is personal. If I had the room and the set up for a wringer, that would be my first choice. If I could find an old school FL that was in good condition that would be a close second to my Maytag HE TL. In my opinion they perform just about neck and neck. I've not had any issues with excessive wear on our clothing or lint. In that area it seems to perform equally with the LG FL that it replaces. But as far as actual cleaning, hands down the Maytag HE TL surpasses the LG FL.
I'm glad you are happy with you LG FL. Everyone should be happy with their daily driver. But please give those of us a break that like our HE TL's. We really do know the difference between our a** and and a hole in the ground about washers, why do you think we are on this site in the first place?

This post was last edited 02/23/2017 at 15:21
Post# 923351 , Reply# 39   2/23/2017 at 11:30 (480 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

Yep, as a matter of fact I used one about 15 years ago before they became popular and HATED it. It tangled everything up and when washing several pair of jeans they came out all twisted and tangled with streaks all over them. This machine was made in Korea and had the impeller like most of the ones today. I considered it a real POS and still do. It spun faster than anything I had ever seen since a Frigidaire Unimatic and tangled on about the same level too along with lots of linting and wear to the clothes. This one actually would use a decent amount of water too. It was a Daewoo. Little did I know that one day machines like this one would be all you could get. I threw that thing out in the first year. It was black plastic with a 2 part lid. Was all electronic too.

This post was last edited 02/23/2017 at 12:53
Post# 923355 , Reply# 40   2/23/2017 at 12:00 (480 days old) by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        

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Then Bruce, you really need to try one of the newer 2nd gen HE TL's. I would absolutely agree with you about the 1st gen TL's, also I think that the Daewoo may be an unfair comparison to the newer Maytag and Whirlpool machines. The first HE TL's were not so hot. I know, I owned a Cabrio in 2010, and I thought it was a POS, in fact that Cabrio is why I even discovered I was trying to find out why that machine just didn't seem to work the way it should have. So I guess it was a happy accident after all. Others may have a different take, and I'll respect them for their opinion.

And BTW, my Maytag HE TL uses more water than the LG did, but not nearly as much as a traditional TL. It's a happy medium in my estimation. Different strikes for different folks!

And I respect your choice too, it's just not mine.

Post# 923359 , Reply# 41   2/23/2017 at 12:50 (480 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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nothing is fool proof.....theres going to be pros and cons to anything that is built.....glitches and mistakes are a given in any development of a product...

Electrolux did pretty good with their introduction of the Fridgemore Fler, probably the only issue, which were the lever controlled dispensers...they corrected those with a solenoid activated setup....

Neptunes may have been a downfall for Maytag....but if that were 100% true, why are so many still in operations?

and while some people did have issues with their Calypso's....doesn't mean the ones I have are just as first set I bought brand new, it has been running fine since 2006...

To hold it against Ford's Model A, with any issue a vehicle may experience today is just mind blowing in that sort of thought....

I don't quite understand how things stick in peoples minds, without considering that improvements would be made......

was looking at a 2010 Ford Taurus......and someone mentioned to me, "didn't those have transmission problems?".......the second someone hears TAURUS, automatically the subject goes in that direction......yeah, those cars did have trans issues, WHEN THEY WERE FIRST BUILT way back in the 80's.....the audacity to think that improvements were not made since then is Ludacris....

Post# 923360 , Reply# 42   2/23/2017 at 12:55 (480 days old) by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

murando531's profile picture
You can't compare today's HE top-loaders to anything that called itself "HE" or had an impeller back in the 90's. Those machines, much like the small portable washers made by Haier like we had to use when we were in Australia last year. They can't even be considered the same type of machine. The "impellers" they use aren't designed in any capacity to roll or move the clothes around each other; instead they simply spin violently one direction, then reverse, twisting the load and spinning them around, which DOES cause damage and tangling of the fabrics. This isn't the greatest footage available but being out and about means going with the first hit when searching Youtube.

Properly designed true high-efficiency top loaders don't cause wear or damage to the clothing when loaded and used properly. There's no way that my machine in particular is harder on fabrics than an agitator machine, because the impeller's "vanes" are broad, rounded, soft plastic. The clothes basically just roll over the humps. An agitator, however, consists of vanes that are wide paddles with narrow spatula-like edges that are yanking back and forth, particularly with a full load. The newer Whirlpool VMW designed agitator washers are a bit gentler because the agitation is slower with a wider arc, rather than the Shredmore choppy action the old DDs had, but it's still rougher on fabrics than the BravosXL has ever been in the two years owning it. In fact, the VMW machine actually did pull an old towel nearly apart because of a small hole that got yanked and twisted by the agitator. The Bravos hasn't even so much as pulled a thread loose on any clothing so far.

As far as lint and sand/sediment removal, I'm not understanding where anyone gets that an HE top-loader is incapable of dealing with such. The basket and impeller in the Cabrio/Bravos are designed with holes in both that allow lint and dirt to fall down beneath the basket, and the sump and bottom of the outer tub are visibly designed to funnel heavier sediment down to the drain ports. After almost two years with this machine I removed the basket to check and see what it would look like, and found nothing. Not even fabric softener build up. No lint balls, no wads of hair, no coins or loose items, and no sand or dirt, even after washing numerous backpacks/gym bags that did have beach sand in them. All of this has been paired with deliberately avoiding running "Clean Washer" cycles, and simply washing all towel/whites loads with hot water, using quality detergent, and using very minimal fabric softener. Clearly they're doing something right.

Post# 923432 , Reply# 43   2/23/2017 at 16:57 (480 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney)        

Looks like they were mucking around in the above video, maybe there is a problem with the fill. There is clearly not enough water to allow that pair of jeans to get washed. These are regular impeller top loaders, not HE machines and they do fill water to the top of the basket usually. As long as clothes can move around, these washers work just fine. They are compact machines not designed for big, bulky loads.

Post# 923477 , Reply# 44   2/23/2017 at 20:53 (480 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Kind of related

mark_wpduet's profile picture
I agree the 1st generation HE TL washers needed to evolve more and now they are better engineered than they were before, although I've heard a lot of people on here that LOVE the Calypso.

One thing that I FREQUENTLY see that admittedly kind of makes me paranoid is (not the way the machine functions) but the control boards of the machines, whether it be a FL or HE TL washer. Just yesterday, I was watching a bravos and maxima video on youtube, and on both of them the top comment was "stay away, control boards are garbage and will cost $300 to replace. I myself experienced this with my duet in 2007 when mine had to be replaced, but once it was replaced it has worked fine ever since.

Does anyone know if they have improved the control boards on these machines or do they still have a high failure rate (I'm talking LG, WP, Elux, all of them)


Post# 923483 , Reply# 45   2/23/2017 at 21:04 (480 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
Calypso, as we know, is a *completely* different mechanism and washing method than the impeller-style HE TLs.

I have a Bravos MVWB300 (SmartDrive-style) that's in line for refurbing.  I'm anticipating the fun of comparing it to my Calypso.

Post# 923517 , Reply# 46   2/24/2017 at 04:02 (480 days old) by brucelucenta ()        

Probably in all reality ANY washer at all that will let clothes get saturated with soapy water, soak and then have some sort of movement to clean the clothes would do at least an adequate job of it. So I can see that the top load HE machines do that. I just don't think they do it as well as a new front load machine does and by design alone, they really aren't as capable of doing it with the same amount of water as front load machines. One thing that anyone would have to admit, is that front load machines use much less water simply by design and have done so since they were invented. Top loaders were just never meant to wash with small amounts of water because of how the tub sits and it has taken massive amounts of electronic manipulation to do what they are doing now. I agree that agitator top loaders are probably harder on clothes than some of the impeller machines. Particularly the agitator HE machines using less water when agitating. As far as linting and sediment removal goes, front loaders again are top, the clothes are dropped constantly and any and all lint or sediment simply goes through the holes into the outer tub and is pumped out later. That is something that even the old Westinghouse machines proved years ago. Front load machines have ALWAYS been superior in that respect. There may always be top loaders, I don't know. But I do think that they will become less favorable as time goes on and restrictions become stricter.

This post was last edited 02/24/2017 at 06:10
Post# 923525 , Reply# 47   2/24/2017 at 06:25 (480 days old) by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Calypso Top Load Washers

combo52's profile picture

Hi Glen, Yes they are nothing like other full size TL HE washers, there only performance down fall was washing large comforters, large winter coats, sleeping bags etc.


But in reality NO TL [ past or present ] washer ever built does a great job with these large items, for these items a LARGE FL [ 27" wide or larger ] washer is needed.


We have been getting a lot of the DD cabrio and MT Bravos in the shop lately and have been installing the new bearing-shaft and seal kits in them, and everyone that has been using them in the shop is quite impressed with the overall performance of these machines.


when one of our larger families in Georgetown 5 YO LG built KM FL washers bearings bit the dust she immediately ordered a SQ FL washer from us to replace and we could not get the SQ for about 10 days and the KM broke between Christmas and New years so I gave them a rebuilt Maytag Bravos to use. We finally installed the new SQ FL washer a few weeks ago and the house keeper did not want to let it go. She said that the clothing was much cleaner and better rinsed in the MT HE TL washer than in KM LG machine.



Post# 923545 , Reply# 48   2/24/2017 at 08:25 (480 days old) by Jmm63 (Denville, NJ)        
These TL's make my blood pressure go up!!

jmm63's profile picture

I guess I'm to old fashioned and prefer a front loader for a modern machine.  I don't see how these things can possibly clean.  "Roll over" ?  I watched the same article of clothing jiggle on the top of the load for 5 minutes, then the machine drained and spun out the load.  The wobbly basket,  jiggling ball of clothes, cup of water sprays. are not for me.  And almost 2 hours to wash a load of clothes?  That's right up there with the 4 ridiculous hours on some dishwashers.


On the positive side, your phone camera takes very nice videos!


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