Thread Number: 69434  /  Tag: Detergents and Additives
Dishwasher maintenance
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Post# 923092   2/22/2017 at 11:45 by appnut (TX)        

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Just saw this article.  I think the woman is on some mind-altering drug.


Post# 923094 , Reply# 1   2/22/2017 at 11:56 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

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The part about cleaning the filter is not bad advice...  When I visited Chris' family last May, everyone was kvetching about what a lousy job their dishwasher did, so I checked the filter. It looked like a science project.  I went for a tetanus shot and a malaria booster as soon as I could after that.  It was extra-nasty and I'd venture a bet that it had not been done since they moved into that house a year earlier.  


Funny note, on Sunday night when we had people over, my friend Bev was questioning me as to why I wasn't pre-rinsing anything while loading the KDS54.  She told me the salesperson who sold her the latest dishwasher in her kitchen that everything had to be rinsed to and I quote, "keep the filter clean"!  I think she has an LG now (her '88 Hotpoint that I installed for her finally gave up the ghost apparently...).

Post# 923096 , Reply# 2   2/22/2017 at 12:06 by ken (Ulster Hgts, NY)        

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That's "progress" for you thanks to the eco-Nazis. When I read the article I thought to myself if dishwashers still had food choppers (I guess a couple still do?) and used a decent amount of water like they used to cleaning the filter wouldn't be necessary. Furthermore they wouldn't need filters in the first place. And lets face it many people just don't want to be bothered by another thing they have to remember to do and so are lax on maintenance.

Our 1996 GE has a food chopper, doesn't have a filter, and never leaves the dishes dirty. Nothing is ever pre rinsed before loading. And it washes a full load in about 40 minutes. That salesman comment is laughable. Everything has to be pre rinsed to keep the filter clean. So you have to do the work first that the appliance you have to do that job is supposed to do? LOL

Post# 923097 , Reply# 3   2/22/2017 at 12:24 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

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Yeah, "progress" indeed.... 


Post# 923101 , Reply# 4   2/22/2017 at 12:48 by washman (Butler, PA)        

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Sort of like the "cleaners" which, amazingly enough, are designed to "clean" the machine which is designed to "clean" your dishes.


Only a true, dyed in the wool eco-tard could justify this asinine expenditure of money and resources.


Let's play "do we understand" shall we?


eco-freak reads CR, decides that they are the one true gospel of common sense and buys a machine that uses a couple of gallons of water.

pats self on the back because his eco-sanctioned machine used a pittance of water yet takes 3-4 hours to do a load.

Reads owners manual and realizes that golly gee, he needs to "clean" his eco-sacntioned DW.

Trudges off to the local BIG BOX or Sprawl mart, buys "affresh" in the cleaning section.

Runs EMPTY DW on the "clean" cycle.

Feels good about his commitment to Mother Earth and how he could never have arrived at such at wonderful purchase w/o the drivel from CR to guide him every step of the way.

Sends money to Algore to help raise "awareness" about climate change, global warming, and the coming climate Apocalypse.


Never once does the mook realize that he's actually expanding his carbon footprint by purchasing yet another chemical when needs resources to make, deliver, and ultimately be tossed in the trash.  But he sits down to a plate of bean sprouts, tofu, and "clean" food from Panera all the while shopping for a new pair of Brikenstocks so he can maintain his neanderthal non-conformist image.


Probably voted for a wayyy out climate guru candidate in the last election.


Since the Donald is all about executive orders, perhaps he could do all of us a favor and sign off on something that reins in the EPA, the DOE, and puts a gag order on Algore all at the same time.

Post# 923102 , Reply# 5   2/22/2017 at 12:50 by appnut (TX)        

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That's why my Kenmore Elite has what Whirlpool developed for the KitchenAid & Kenmore Elite lines--the micro clean filter.  It cleans itself.  And I'm thankful for that because I couldn't live with a machine with a filter--too difficult to crawl on the floor and fish out the filter in the bottom of the tub. 

Post# 923111 , Reply# 6   2/22/2017 at 13:37 by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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for the most part, it wouldn't hurt to have a removable sump type of filter basket to capture items like broken glass or items that would destroy/jam the motor or impellor...

you would not believe what items find their way into sumps of dishwashers....

but a fine mesh type to clean the water before it enters the pump.....nonsense....and a PITA to remove and clean...

machines like an UltraWash, you would throw food into the dishwasher, just to watch it disappear without a trace!..

Post# 923116 , Reply# 7   2/22/2017 at 14:13 by jkbff (Gladstone, ND)        

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I put some nasty dishes in my Dishwasher.. My lil ole Miele that I have...

I mean I put some NASTY dishes in my dishwasher... I use the Miele detergent tabs and the pots and pans cycle... I check the filter every so often and there isn't much of anything in there except hair... of all things...

Every once in a while, the stainless on the door will get a ... haze.. I put a bowl of white vinegar in the dishwasher with a load of stainless and glassware after the dishwasher does the pre-wash....

I might even get a wild hair up my ass and wash stuff that normally isn't ran through all the time and use Cascade Boil out.. that MAY happen 3 times a year...

I've never had to scrub my filter, I've never had to pick gunk off of it (except the hair)...

It is amazing what hot water and a decent soap/detergent product can do....

Post# 923124 , Reply# 8   2/22/2017 at 14:48 by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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Wow....the disinformation is strong in this thread.

I guess what many are forgetting is that "machine cleaners" have existed for decades, and were used fairly often even in the "good ole' days." we forget the all the boxes of Glisten and Dishwasher Magic that were on the shelves oh so many years ago.

Ever since moving out to college, I've used Glisten in every dishwasher in every apartment I've moved to. And these were units with good ole time machines that used 8-10-12 gallons of water!
But dang did they still need cleaning, from being full of gook, grime, rust, scale, you name it.

It's not just a "lib-tard" phenomena.
But hey, if you have to slander and point fingers to help you sleep at night, whatever.
I like my modern dishwasher. It never pees on my dishes. It keeps my water bill low.
I clean my round mesh filter once a month. I clean my parents' mesh filter out whenever I visit. They're never really that bad and just take a little rinse.

Murando has gone over this extensively, and Whirlpool's platform for a few years now doesn't even recommend cleaning their filter more than twice a year unless you subject it to almost sadistic abuse. And their Maytag line still uses a self cleaning accumulator. AND KA and KM's high end lines have totally self cleaning filters still.
Oh....and Bosch's mesh filter cups are relatively self cleaning as well.
This is practically a non-issue, quantifiably.

If you have any iron in your water, or anything above 5 grains of hardness, you're going to eventually HAVE to clean your dishwasher at some point, unless you pre-rinse at Olympic levels. Certain water chemistries and PH levels will or will not rinse cleanly.
Yes....the new machines take a bit longer, but they hold more now.
I can load it up over 2-3 days and just run it before bed.
It's only a minor hassle if you're having a big dinner party.

OH well.....not to harp on a highly charged phrase....but I guess the Alternative Facts are pouring freely like the torrents of effluent from a Reverse-Rack drain line.

Post# 923128 , Reply# 9   2/22/2017 at 14:59 by appnut (TX)        

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John, I never once bought Dishwasher Magic or Glisten, never needed to.  But once I got the last two HE dishwashers and suggestion of using Affresh, I felt obligated to do. 

Post# 923135 , Reply# 10   2/22/2017 at 15:07 by Joeekaitis (Rialto, California, USA)        
Quart of vinegar every 4 weeks . . .

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Kenmore still looks like brand new.

Also: been using Bubble Bandit since almost Day One after non-phosphated tabs sent the Maytag 3-racker to Dishwasher Heaven.

Post# 923136 , Reply# 11   2/22/2017 at 15:10 by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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That's great Bob.
Because you never had to, doesn't mean oh so many of us did not.
Or oh so many out there just lived with grimy dishwashers.

Post# 923176 , Reply# 12   2/22/2017 at 16:59 by washman (Butler, PA)        

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That's great Bob.
Because you never had to, doesn't mean oh so many of us did not.
Or oh so many out there just lived with grimy dishwashers.


And they wouldn't be grimy IF:


The 3cking DOE got their nose out of my kitchen and and allow the machines to use the necessary water to clean the *cking dishes.

Bring back phosphates so we can have clean dishes once more.


The products you mentioned "back in the day" were sold due to water hardness and/or iron issues. Not because the machines used so little water that they could not flush away the grunge that always happens when one washes dishes.


My mother, god rest her soul, ran a Modern Maid, and 2 GE machines on good old hard well water and other than vinegar in the rise, she never "cleaned" the machine.


If all this asinine "lets not use ANY water" was workable, which it plainly is not, they why didn't someone back in the 50's or 60's come up with a water sipping machine? Answer, because it didn't work, not even then with the glorious phosphates.


Here's some real "facts" you could consider this evening when  you are sipping some tea or other beverage.........there is no, repeat, no water shortage on this planet.  I know, I know, "science" says otherwise but that simply is not true.

BTW, wasn't the People's Republic of Kalofornia in a "drought" recently?  Read the news lately? They're literally drowning out there now.


Must be that climate change algore keeps harping on about..................................:)

Post# 923183 , Reply# 13   2/22/2017 at 17:37 by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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I never seen any of those dishwasher cleaners until recently.....

I remember something along the lines of Rinse-Glo, in a small green foil covered box, but that was for sparkling glassware....

the only trick I ever remember to clean a dishwasher was a tablespoon of TANG added to the machine to help clean it.....or even adding a 1/2 cup of bleach to a cycle....

about the only place I ever seen a build up on a machine, was where the lower bottom/front of the door would close in on the inside, that area never seemed to get a flush during the wash....

I guess certain conditions would cause more build up on machines....

Post# 923189 , Reply# 14   2/22/2017 at 18:02 by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

Yeah, no water shortage at all -- it just gets stored for 10 years and then rains all during this winter, so going from drought mode to flood mode is *so* much fun. Ask people who are having to evacuate their homes.

I will suggest you people get off your seats and call your congressmen and senators if the situation is *so* unbearable.

Hint -- do not expect much will happen, because this dishwasher thing did not start from the public or the liberals. It started from the manufacturers, who *decided* what *they* wanted to do, created a plan, the laws, lobbied for them and implemented them. This has happened for toilets, for removal of phosphates (first from laundry detergent, then dishwasher detergent), for every Energy Star program to do with fridges, dishwashers, washers etc.

That's why it's called Regulatory Capture and it's gonna get worse now that industry people were assigned to the EPA etc.

Just to give you another example which is less charged with the members here, let's get out of the appliances for a bit and go to cars and airplanes.

Any company (say Boeing) who invents/comes up with a new safety feature will patent it but not implement it *anywhere* because of the liabilities involved. (For example, if a 3 year old model gets into an accident and a bunch of people get hurt/die because it doesn't have the newest thingamajig that the 1 yo plane has, the lawyers will cream their pants in delight.) So they *first* get together (all manufacturers), design a plan and laws to go with it, then lobby it, then the FAA passes a law *requiring* the new equipment *and* limiting how much one can sue for and recover in case of equipment failure. *Then* there's a lot of agitation and bitching and fake "let's complain about 'regulations'" instead of how much safer we can get. Then the new stuff gets installed.

I would suggest that all the people here that were in what would be fatal crashes in 1960's and have just *walked away* (no hospitals, no wheelchairs etc) start asking themselves why is it that instead of "consumer protections" we only hear about "regulations".

Back to the appliance business, google enough and you will find out famous *industry* people (from Whirlpool, if I recall correctly) in one of the industry's magazines making a case that all of the appliance manufacturers and detergent manufacturers should get together and agree on what technologies they would use, because if detergents didn't get better very soon, the dishwasher manufacturers were going to get into trouble and the disparity between the tech in Europe and USA was getting too big. This was circa 1992. Look it up.

If you wanna whine, sure, go ahead. But make sure you know you are a tool/peon of the politicians, not a hero among the consumers.

Incidentally, I used to spend *way* more time cleaning all the grates that protected the "self-cleaning grinders" in my older American dishwashers from stuff like twist ties, broken glass, spaghetti, ziti etc (which required crouching by the machine and manually removing/cleaning stuff) than I've spent with any Euro-style dishwasher I had. My EU-style machines remind me to rinse the filter about once a month or so, which requires about one gallon of cold water, under the kitchen faucet. Much less than a machine would waste every day. And every single American dishwasher that I had seen open (mine, friends' etc) was just *nasty* beyond belief near the "disposer", just because the dirt disappears and you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not there. The Euro machines I've seen open were *much* cleaner under the hood, because most of the dirt is held by the filters until they dissolve eaten by the enzymes and caustic stuff, and if they don't, it's *way* easier to yank the filter, rinse it and put it back. I dunno why that woman is telling people to wait for the filters to dry, for example. It's just gonna get wet again immediately.

I will be the *first* one to say the older/classic stuff were much more *interesting* because they were different from each other and tried to solve the problems as to avoid traipsing all over each other's patents -- nowadays it seems to me that everyone quickly pays royalties and uses each other's ideas. Also, instead of 50 companies in USA, we barely have 50 companies *worldwide* because of the enormous conglomerates that own 12 brands each but make essentially the same machine under different labels.

But make no mistake, you are not here being a hero and the *first* to complain about "O.M.G.!!! How looong this cycle is, why, my mom's machine took only half the time!" -- we've been hearing that since the first dishwashers had a 5 or 10 minute cycles, then 20 then 30, you would not believe the amount of complaints when they went to one hour in the 70's, despite the fact they actually started *cleaning*, *rinsing* and *drying* better by then with the multiple wash/rinse and heated half hour dry. *Half* hour just to *dry*?!? My mom's machine took only 10 minutes *total*.

Yeah, and your mom's machine couldn't fit the entire meal (dishes, silverware and pots/pans) either, it had to run 2 cycles. And it sounded like a train was *inside* the house, ask me how I know?

I will support *anyone* that wants to talk about all the pros and cons of each machine, style, cycle etc.

But you do not want to sound like Kellyanne here. A few of the machines back then cleaned really well, most of them sucked. And they used way more resources (read, you spent more money) on them that todays' machines. Which are boring, you can't hear very well what the heck they are doing etc.

But we have *plenty* of people here that used to talk just like you and then got a bleeding edge or even a 15-yo EU style machine and they say they are *much* happier with the newer stuff now.

Remember, when you say stuff, we are paying attention, and when we compare it to our own observations, you might seem like you are not telling the truth. You may or may not care about the consequences of that. I know some people here are just repeating what they hear others say, but others *should* know better and be ashamed of propagating disinformation.

Being honest and telling the truth here should be better than just bashing new stuff to fit in. But that's for you to decide for yourself.

Thank you for listening.

Hugs all,
   -- Paulo.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO earthling177's LINK

Post# 923204 , Reply# 15   2/22/2017 at 18:56 by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        

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I use Cascade Platinum , or Cascade professional with phosphates and the inside of my Kitchenaid still sparkles like it was new.  


Now I do pull out the rack occasionally and check the pump intake to make sure there isn't any items stuck there, found a cat toy once. My prewash (kitty) died last September so don't have to worry about him sneaking in while I'm loading anymore.  

This model still has a food chopper, so no filter to clean.  



Post# 923208 , Reply# 16   2/22/2017 at 19:01 by ken (Ulster Hgts, NY)        

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At first glance I thought you wrote that you found a cat in the pump intake!

Post# 923210 , Reply# 17   2/22/2017 at 19:02 by duke (lexington SC/usa)        

Government requirements and intervention into the appliance business were pressed into action by the tree huggers and liberals who certainly can design cars and appliances much better than companies. That's why these energy saver dishwashers run for hours. EPA and DOE regulation of industry with low water usage several times per hour.BTW- Your EURO perfection speeches are making some ill. Perhaps relocation?

This post was last edited 02/22/2017 at 19:21
Post# 923217 , Reply# 18   2/22/2017 at 19:25 by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

Duke, thank you for the news, I certainly just subscribed to the site and have not heard *directly* from other people until you clued me in.

I am just fine here, *thank you*, and I *would* prefer to buy American (and have, over the years) if I were not tired of the bad quality stuff that broke in no time at all. At some point I need to start rewarding *competence* instead of snake oil.

If you read what I posted, including the wikipedia article about Regulatory Capture you will find out that I am not here to lie to anyone or acquire a reputation as a liar. Go to your google or public library, search appliance manufacturer's specialized rags around the 1990's and you *will* find out I told you the truth because that is recorded on paper. Whether or not you agree with the news.

Companies have *all* kinds of engineers in them, some are liberals some are conservatives.

Companies have decided what laws they wanted passed and passed them here in USA because they did not want what happened in Europe to be repeated here. You will find out also, if you just *measure* how much energy your dishwasher that "runs for hours", that they use a fraction of the energy and resources as the machines from 30-40 years ago. *Some* machines from the 50's used less, not many.

If you want to appear savvy, you don't have to lie about stuff. It's perfectly OK to say you like or dislike something without making everything else crap. Some people prefer the racks on the Maytag Reverse Rack, some preferred the KitchenAids. No one had to be "wrong" as you seem to imply.

And you will find out that (a) people here will probably prefer the 1970's KitchenAids that took one hour over the ones that took half hour and (b) that people who fix, collect, restore stuff, including the webmaster and some of the best technicians here are not afraid of saying "such and such machine is pretty/interesting etc but did not clean well" or "wasted a lot of resources" etc. There is *no* need for all this crap about "tree huggers", particularly when it's *documented* that the "regulations" were implemented *by* the manufacturers here in US.

   -- Paulo.

Post# 923219 , Reply# 19   2/22/2017 at 19:36 by duke (lexington SC/usa)        

Calm yourself Paulo,

I like Kitchenaid and most all the old stuff,that's not part of your rant (above)

Bringing in KellyAnne Conway has what to do with dishwashers??

Let's just drop it,You and I never agree--For Real--thanks

This post was last edited 02/22/2017 at 19:56
Post# 923232 , Reply# 20   2/22/2017 at 20:28 by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
@ John

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your post is hilarious.

I've never used machine cleaners either. But just for the he!! of it sometimes I will run an empty cycle with sugar free lemonade powder that has citric acid. I still have the affresh packet than came with my machine. I also put a little LCB at the start of each load and I think that helps a lot.

Post# 923234 , Reply# 21   2/22/2017 at 20:43 by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        

First, aside frome the silverware basket cleaning and the rusty latch?, every thing on that list is good advice. Vinegar wash is great for cleaning the inner workings (specifically the drain hose).

You mop your floor with a mop, do you clean your mop on occasion?

As far as the European thing, I find it pretty hilarious that the Europeans want the American goods and the Americans think the European stuff is the best. It's all really a Matter of preference.

I agree the EPA is really getting out of hand. There should be an additional tax on dishwasher soap, and use those proceeds to further drain their agenda. Increase the cost of water and the customer will demand a more efficient unit.

Apply the same idea to cars and gas. Increase the gas tax and the customers will start buying more efficient cars. Use that extra tax money to rebuild infrastructure.

Post# 923237 , Reply# 22   2/22/2017 at 20:48 by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        


Here's what I see from where I'm sitting: a thread starts with some weird author spreading disinformation, which Bob provided a link to. Not too much later, a *lot* of disinformation and name calling happened. Then someone complains about the disinformation and *more* disinformation happens. That's why I'm saying don't pull a Kellyanne here, there's no need to lie.

That's why I'm saying: there is *no* need to lie and spread disinformation. We can *all* have our favorites and interesting machines and there is no need to put people down or lie about how machines worked. Some people never needed to use Glisten or whatever, some people did. Some people have never used dishwasher Afresh (me, for example), some people do. We can talk all about what makes all of this happen/possible, for example water quality in your area makes a big difference.

There are exceptionally good classic dishwashers and exceptionally good released last month or whatever dishwashers -- both new and old machines can be crappy. If your mindset is "only old stuff is good" or "only new stuff is good", you are missing stuff, you are not learning stuff.

You will find out you and I will agree on a ton of stuff. I am sure of that. When you tell me something, my first reaction is "What does that imply?" Also, "what makes that true or false?", "what can I infer from that data?" I am much more interested in true things and data and how science explains which machines worked better or worse and why. What can we use from what we know to make stuff better.

Some people come here and strongly suggest that "eco-nazi" stuff like saving water and energy are bad things, and extending cycles suck. Well, I just pointed out that KitchenAid, for decades, advertised that they worked better and saved resources compared to the competitors back then. When their cycles went from 30 minutes to 60 minutes, most people claim to prefer the 60 minutes because it washed, rinsed and dried better than the predecessors. Some people will prefer the one that took only 30 minutes because they did not notice anything getting better.

You will find out that there are plenty of machines that look really good on paper (both modern and old) and *should* be good performers, but when used in real life they don't perform well. Other designs that look simplistic and seem like a so-so machine sometimes perform much better than stuff that looks impressive but barely runs.

I take a very dim view of clubs where you can only say what is approved -- for example, "only old cars are good, everything now sucks because of the econazi" or "only new cars are good, everything old sucked because they were not safe". That's not a club, that's a bunch of kids bullshiting around, and one of the things I love about this particular club is that such things are *not* necessary. Very well respected collectors here will give you their unbiased opinions about *both* the good and bad about a particular appliance.

There is not need to "try to fit in" here. Everybody fits in. Give us *your* opinion, not what you think we want to hear you say. Let's try to use all the data to explain a bunch of stuff. If people bring in disinformation, we will end up regressing instead of making progress.

You will find out that everyone here can teach you a bunch of stuff and learn a bunch of stuff from you. I am certainly waiting to hear the stuff you can teach me.

Anyway, you are a grown man, you do whatever you want to do. No biggie.

   -- Paulo.

Post# 923239 , Reply# 23   2/22/2017 at 20:56 by duke (lexington SC/usa)        

Thanks Paulo,
I have no desire to teach you anything .I got into trouble because of you in the dirty laundry section of this website.I wish you would stay in the dirty laundry section and quit pretending you are interested in anything technical.You are only into liberal political hate as I have read. I told you to forget it.

Post# 923240 , Reply# 24   2/22/2017 at 20:58 by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

Eugene (Lorainfurniture):

Increasing the price of resources (by taxing or just raising the price) like you said *can* provoke hyperinflation, and it has in the past in lots of places (South America, for example, was typical).

I respectfully ask that you read the info on Regulatory Capture for a much more accurate view of what's happening in USA, EPA, DOE etc.

Manufacturers complain because they think it will put the customers on their side. Most typical example is toilets. The law in many places say the toilets have to work well with 1.2 gallons/flush, and they do. The law here, which was written by the toilet industry, says only that toilets have to use less than 1.6 gallons/flush, and instead of redesigning the toilets like they did abroad, they only lowered the water line in the tank to 1.6 gallons and left it at that, provoking people all over the country to "hate water saving toilets".

It's not that I don't understand -- I used to have two of those terrible toilets that clogged all the time until 2013, when I replaced them with a model from Toto that uses only 1.2 gallons per flush. The plumbers came and replaced the toilets, I put the plungers in the basement in case I needed them and they've been in the basement *collecting dust* ever since then.

So, it's not the water saving part that is bad. It's the bad design that is bad.

If, as customers, we don't make a distinction and demand manufacturers get better, we keep making the country and goods worse.

   -- Paulo.

Post# 923242 , Reply# 25   2/22/2017 at 21:05 by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

Duke, *every time* you say something publicly, you teach people stuff, including about yourself. You can control what you say and do here, but you cannot control what other people say or do. I will be learning from you whether you intend for that to happen or not.

For example, I just learned that despite the fact that I *am* interested in technical stuff and that people who know me *personally* can confirm that to you, you prefer to believe that to be false and that I only have liberal hate, which I do not. Maybe you only have conservative hate. Maybe not.

We will see.

Also, weeks, months, years from now, as data comes into the website, everyone will see whose data and/or worldview was more correct.

Again, we will see.

Have fun!
   -- Paulo.

Post# 923244 , Reply# 26   2/22/2017 at 21:13 by duke (lexington SC/usa)        

That may be of concern-TO YOU. Please update your profile page Paulo. Please tell some facts of your appliance repairs and collections. Do you have pictures? Please, Anything but your belief system. Thank you so very much-Duke

Post# 923246 , Reply# 27   2/22/2017 at 21:25 by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

Most people here find out about the site and the *first* thing they do is to introduce themselves, tell us a bit about themselves, and more often than not we hear them go "Oh, wow, I thought I was the only one!".

You show up here, *first* post or two in the most controversial forum badmouthing people.

Your profile was empty until very recently.

Why don't *you* go first? Update your profile, tell us about your collections, repairs, restorations etc. Do you have any pictures? Also, anything but your belief system.

We don't seem to know much, if anything about you. And the little I might know, since you deleted the post about the TV interview, I am never posting here and I just forgot about.

Do you know why I'm gonna ignore all you asked *me* to do? Because it's all here. If you go back as far as you can in this website and even before, when it was hosted elsewhere (do you know where?), there is all you need to know about me, including which conventions I attended, pictures of me, when I showed up on TV with people who matter on this website. No, I do not say much on TV, but I am *visible*.

Other people, who so far matter to me more than your opinion, value my presence and opinion here.

I'm pretty sure you are a valuable person with valuable opinions and information.

Oh, yes, since you asked nicely, my father taught mechanical engineering at the top level for over 40 years. I am a computer geek, but I'm sure you knew that because I told you.

My profile will stay exactly the way it is, because I am not here to compete on how much my appliances cost, where they came from etc, like there were some accusations in the past.

And you're very welcome,
   -- Paulo.

Post# 923253 , Reply# 28   2/22/2017 at 21:51 by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        

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Let's play fair - we can move this discussion to Dirty Laundry. It's only my opinoin, but I think we should restrict our disagreements to that one forum. That leaves us free to work together and enjoy each other and our different perspectives on Imperial, Super and Deluxe.

Just a thought....

Post# 923262 , Reply# 29   2/22/2017 at 22:25 by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        

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No, this was my Melvin when he was a kitten.  We called him pre-wash because he liked to sit in or on the dishwasher and lick the plates while you were loading.  


This was also my previous dishwasher.  

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Post# 923268 , Reply# 30   2/22/2017 at 23:31 by Johnb300m (Chicago)        

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I second the motion that darlings take the hashing out of belief systems to Dirty Laundry.

My post was attempting to show the vast variability still out there among modern machines and how their scorn is somewhat undeserved. There's a LOT of hard working people out there that try to make those things function well, and people who assembled them and might be proud of them.

That's the wonderful thing about machines; they don't care about belief systems.
They run on mechanics and pre-programmed algorithms devised by engineers who conducted science processes. All under the direction of physical law.

@Mark WP,
Haha! Thanks! ;)

Post# 923275 , Reply# 31   2/23/2017 at 03:26 by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)        

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"As far as the European thing, I find it pretty hilarious that the Europeans want the American goods and the Americans think the European stuff is the best. It's all really a Matter of preference."

Uh uh!

I think that is more an exception than a rule. In general Americans think American appliances are better and Europeans prefer European appliances.

Personally I like all appliances, I browse on lots of websites all around the world to see what kind of appliances they have. But most of us stick to what we have and what we know. Our memories are mostly of appliances of our own continent too. And memories is what drives our participation in this website.


Post# 923296 , Reply# 32   2/23/2017 at 07:41 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
"American vs. European goods"

Its different, it's unique to my homelands products. Braun products were popular in the states in the 80's and 90's. Like a Mercedes Benz once was in America, or a Chevrolet or Cadillac was in Europe.
How about an Opel Diplomat in the states? I never saw one. It's V8 engine was in fact a Chevrolet 327.
I saw a 1977 Chevrolet Caprice driving in Berlin though.
Then alas, since the Opel Kadette and sport Manta, the Opel Omega was sold here in the 90's, as a Cadillac Catera.
The 70's Mercury Capri was also popular here, built in Cologne.
If someone in America has a Thermador, Viking, or Wolf, they have upscale status, but having a Miele, or an Asko product says it better.

Post# 923299 , Reply# 33   2/23/2017 at 07:45 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        

the lady in the back seat isn't in a Chevy either. Look at the head restraint, and you can tell it is neither a vintage 70's USA Ford Granada ESS or Mercury Monarch version by the wide curve above the quarter window in the roof line to the sail panel.

Post# 923307 , Reply# 34   2/23/2017 at 08:08 by steved (Guilderland, New York)        
My 2 cents....

I have to agree with JohnB300m, I like my modern dishwasher too. Weight and water/energy consumption do not equal quality. I own a 2011 Frigidaire MOL unit that I pimped up with the 3-way wash arm, top spray arm and nylon racks, and can count on one hand the times I was disappointed with the results. Now granted, I don't pack it to the gills as I run it every other day. I generally don't do pots and pans and I'm not a pre-rinser. The thing is, we can have a houseful and it all fits in the dishwasher. Since its not a portable and I don't monitor its every click, I don't really care if it takes two hours to run as long as the load comes out clean. Plus you have to factor in that my husband and family have to work with it as well. Truthfully, I replaced the WP built KitchenAid that was in our house with this unit as this one serves our needs better. Now are there "allowances" that need to be made? Sure. But folks I do regular maintainence on my $25,000 car without giving it a second thought. Why not on a $400 dishwasher?

Post# 923339 , Reply# 35   2/23/2017 at 10:51 by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)        

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Yes Mike, there are exceptions. At the moment Vitamix blenders are becoming popular here although very expensive. But the general rule is different. Snobbery with expensive appliances not included btw. It makes sense too. It's easier to get an appliance repaired that didn't come from across the big pond. I had a bad experience with a Cuisinart recently. No parts available anymore in this country although the same model is still sold new in the USA.

The lady in the back seat is in a Mercedes W114/W115.

Back from the car into the kitchen now, back to dishwasher maintenance.

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