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Thread Number: 69784
/ Tag: Detergents and Additives
Making Persil |
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| Post# 927850 , Reply# 1 3/20/2017 at 02:39 (2,586 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
That's 
A thought provoking question.
In a standard powdered detergent, the builder can be as high as 40% of the total weight. With Persil.. Who knows So this is just a suggestion but as you experiment to reach a workable formula, measure your ingredients by weights. Start out with a total weight say 16 oz. Create your formula by weight and percentages of each ingredient, so that when you find what works, it can be produced to a large size exactly with no variation. HTH let us know how you do. Also, will you be doing this with a TL machine or FL? And what type of homemade soap? I may be able to help you with that. | ||
| Post# 928024 , Reply# 2 3/20/2017 at 22:46 (2,585 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
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I Didn't | ||
| Post# 929160 , Reply# 3 3/27/2017 at 02:55 (2,579 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
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What happend with this ? | ||
| Post# 929417 , Reply# 5 3/28/2017 at 13:23 (2,578 days old) by VacuumGuy99 (North Western PA) | ||
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I probably should have mentioned that the book I found lists chemicals in percentage not in volume so it's possible to make a container at a time and not have some crazy huge amount of premixed detergent laying around. | ||
Post# 929432 , Reply# 6 3/28/2017 at 14:52 (2,578 days old) by Launderess  (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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I think some preliminary comments on my part
would not be out of place....*LOL*
Sodium metasilicate was, and is still used in soap and even detergent washing powders for its excellent properties. www.chemistry.co.nz/deterg_inorga... However that being said had Henkel had access to steady and low cost supplies of STPP and or SHTP am sure like many later soap based laundry powders (mostly found in USA), they would have used those instead. Still some early water softening powders used both phosphates and silicates to get the best of both worlds so to speak. As for formulating your powder see pages 50-60: archive.org/stream/soapmakingman... | ||
| Post# 929507 , Reply# 7 3/29/2017 at 02:20 (2,577 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
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The
Two soap formulas ilistrated are distinctly different.
Formula II is a formula that would be best suited for skin. Formula III is a formula that would be best for laundry or household cleaning. The brine mentioned would be used to "prove" or "purify" the soap. Meaning that spent lye, glycerin, and any un saponified fats would be percipatated out. This was commonly done years ago to achieve a soap product that performed better for laundry or household cleaning than what one could make at home. The purification helped reduce soap scum, and rinsed easier than soap that had not been purified. | ||
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Post# 929535 , Reply# 8 3/29/2017 at 09:12 (2,577 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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making your own detergent has always been an insight to laundry.....
one question would be, which is cheaper, to make your own, or buy Persil?.... and one other concern, in using Industrial chemicals/detergents in a residential machine not always a good idea.....and only basing that one from working in a laundry once, Commercial machines were fine with this stuff, but residential TLers wore out pumps and seals quickly.... just be cautious.... | ||
| Post# 929562 , Reply# 9 3/29/2017 at 13:27 (2,577 days old) by VacuumGuy99 (North Western PA) | ||
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Thanks for the soap making guide laundress, yogitunes thanks for the heads up, I was going to be using the powder in a wringer so I'll definitely keep an eye out and make sure nothing gets damaged. | ||
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Post# 929623 , Reply# 10 3/29/2017 at 21:14 (2,576 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Commercial Laundry Products
In addition to containing some very powerful and nasty chemicals such as sodium hydroxide (lye), oxalic acid, and so forth also are dosed in minute amounts per pound of washing.
It is not uncommon to see titration levels of 2-4 ounces per 100lbs of washing. Average domestic washer holds only 11-18 pounds of washing; so just run the sums... As already mentioned nearly all these chemicals come with warnings against use in "home style" washing machines. There are products designed to work in institutional, OPL and other laundries with normally smaller capacity washing machines, but they are labeled as such. Also as per above post these chemicals will do a number on pumps, seals and perhaps other parts of a domestic washing machine. Most commercial washers do not have pumps, but simply drain valves. Where there are pumps (such as for soft mount machines) one would assume they are built to a different standard than domestic washers. Other issue with domestic washers versus commercial is the often total lack of programming controls. Many of these chemicals (oxalic acid is one) not only require hot water cycle, but several rinses in hot or very water to remove. Now back on topic: As have mentioned before soap even when used in water softened with precipitating water softeners such as TSP or sodium metasilicate, and a wringer isn't bad as many would think. This is because unlike automatic top loading washing machines that drain water down through the wash, when using a mangle/wringer (hand or power operated) one lifts laundry out of the mucky water. The mangle or wringer will then squeeze dirt, soils, soaps, etc... and most importantly hard water minerals and scum out of the wash and down back into the tub. | ||
| Post# 929661 , Reply# 11 3/30/2017 at 07:45 (2,576 days old) by vacuumguy99 (North Western PA) | ||
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I was looking at using recipe 13. I was going to try and figure out the amount needed for 5 loads of clothes just to try it and adjust the amount of plurafac surfactant to a useful amount of fels or the like.
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| Post# 929837 , Reply# 12 3/31/2017 at 02:13 (2,575 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
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Would | ||
| Post# 929914 , Reply# 13 3/31/2017 at 10:17 (2,575 days old) by vacuumguy99 (North Western PA) | ||
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Ya,I'm using fels in my formula.I'm going to need to get cmc and sodium silicate to make the formula in bulk but I'm going to work with the phosphates,soap,metasilicate and I'll probably work some percarbonate in there. I'll post the recipe(s) that I try and share my results. | ||
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Post# 929974 , Reply# 14 3/31/2017 at 17:20 (2,575 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Thing about commercial laundries
Which is why they use caustic chemicals is their throughput times are much faster.
Be it a tunnel, pocket, or whatever washing machine from start to finish a commercial laundry cycle runs about thirty-one to forty-five minutes tops. This will include perhaps one or two flushes/sluice cycles, pre-washes/soaks, main washes, bleaching, etc.... To remove protein and blood soils, commercial laundries today rely upon formulas not that much different than they did in the last century; moderate to high pH and high to very high water temps. Laundries in France, UK much of Europe and the USA were getting out blood with no more than soap and metasilicate. Bleaching was with perborate or oxalic acid. Ammonia also works in removing blood for the same reason; it is an alkaline gas suspended in water. With such short cycles commercial laundries today don't normally bother with enzymes. Contact time there is a minimum of 15 to 20 minutes to be effective. Of course they can program or run a longer cycle if needed, but that ties up a washer. | ||
| Post# 930060 , Reply# 16 4/1/2017 at 11:38 (2,574 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
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So | ||
| Post# 930085 , Reply# 17 4/1/2017 at 16:01 (2,574 days old) by vacuumguy99 (North Western PA) | ||
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Yep,per dose of the regular stuff comes out to 1/2 cup. This stuff works just about as well as I've had tide work so it definitely doesn't lack power | ||
| Post# 930114 , Reply# 18 4/1/2017 at 19:45 (2,573 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
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Keep us posted | ||
| Post# 931924 , Reply# 19 4/11/2017 at 22:40 (2,563 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
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Mark | ||
| Post# 935933 , Reply# 20 5/2/2017 at 23:23 (2,542 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
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? | ||
| Post# 939818 , Reply# 22 5/22/2017 at 23:36 (2,522 days old) by speedqueen (Metro-Detroit) | ||
 | ||
| Post# 939851 , Reply# 23 5/23/2017 at 08:59 (2,522 days old) by vacuumguy99 (North Western PA) | ||
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With the zoat soap this formula is very high sudsing and is best suited for a wringer washer. Some time towards the end of this week I'm going to experiment with other surfactants to make an auto washer version of this powder. | ||
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Post# 939901 , Reply# 24 5/23/2017 at 16:12 (2,522 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Froth and soap go togehter
Standard rule back in the day when soap was the queen of laundry rooms was to keep a layer between two to three inches deep (give or take) of "lively" suds. This was an indication that conditions were proper for good washing. That is there was enough soap to clean *and* keep much and hard water minerals in suspension.
The froth issue is why soaps had to go when using automatic washing machines and in particular front loading machines. Not only does excess froth impede cleaning and rinsing but it causes problems with spin cycles as well. Back in the days of doing wash by hand and or using semi-automatics such as wringers or even twin tubs all that froth wasn't such a huge issue. Largely because laundry was lifted out of sudsy water and either put through a mangle or into an extractor. | ||
| Post# 939911 , Reply# 25 5/23/2017 at 17:48 (2,522 days old) by stan (Napa CA) | ||
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Mark | ||
| Post# 987073 , Reply# 26 3/17/2018 at 23:27 (2,223 days old) by speedqueen (Metro-Detroit) | ||
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Just checking in... | ||
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