Thread Number: 70010  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Maytag 8100 Front-Loader: Spin Problem
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Post# 929362   3/28/2017 at 04:48 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Well, not even three years in and the Maytag has its first problem. After a lengthy distribution tumble, it ramps up to what I'm guessing is 400-500 rpm for about 15 seconds, then drops back to a distribution tumble. Repeat for remainder of final spin.

Tried a 'spin only' with an empty tub and it does the same thing. The empty tub seems to bounce around quite a bit when it ramps up.

Has anyone experienced a similar problem with a Maytag or Whirlpool front-loader? Have any of our resident repairmen seen this issue out in the field?

After a few months of a trouble-free household, I'm in a 'nickel-and-dime-me-to-death' cycle. Garage door opener, furnace (albeit minor), and now washer issues in the past three weeks. Yeesh!




This post was last edited 03/28/2017 at 05:05



Post# 929363 , Reply# 1   3/28/2017 at 04:50 by brucelucenta (tulsa, oklahoma)        

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Sounds as though you might have a problem with the bearings. Can you move the tub move side to side when empty?

Post# 929364 , Reply# 2   3/28/2017 at 05:00 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Bruce--I've rarely ever just tried to move the tub by hand. If memory serves correctly, it moved very little. Just tried to move it manually and while it does move around, it doesn't hit against anything, even with fairly aggressive pushing. Made no unusual sound when I gave the tub a spin by hand.

There is no squealing or unusual sound when it's operating.

Update: Tried unplugging the machine for a minute; didn't help. Again, the empty tub seems to bounce around more than it should during the distribution tumble and ramp-up.




This post was last edited 03/28/2017 at 06:10
Post# 929366 , Reply# 3   3/28/2017 at 05:07 by henene4 (Germany)        

We had several reports of these problems on here. You are the third I can think of right now.

All machines seem to be in otherwise good condition (dampers, bearings, other cycle operation).


I have three suspects right now.
First would be dampers. The balancing rings on the tub can cause uneven spinning with the tub empty. However, not sure if and how the sensing algorythm is actually affected by that.
Next would be the balancing rings themselfes. Weren't some cases of leaking known on these on some toploaders?
And, last but not least, and in my opinion most likely, some capacitor on the MCU failing, causing improper sensing of motor load and thus making it think there is always an unbalanced load. Timeframe would seem about right for something like that.

Checking the bearings is a thirty second job, just check if the drum has play.
Google for how to read out the failure codes, check that, run a digniostics cycle.
If you want to replace parts through trial and error, first I'd go with the dampers and see if that helps.
If that dosen't help, you could check if you could score a working used MCU from some craigslist find.



Really sad these seem to have a certain point of failure, they seemed to be verry good performers otherwise.


Post# 929367 , Reply# 4   3/28/2017 at 05:08 by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Ball Bearings?

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Does this model use the ring of ball bearings for spin balancing?

Malcolm


Post# 929369 , Reply# 5   3/28/2017 at 05:17 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Doesn't seem to be any 'play' in the tub movement. No clunking sounds or feel of the tub being loose in its moorings. Again, have rarely tried to bounce the tub around by hand, but it does feel easier to move the tub/suspension than one remembers. Of course, this could be my imagination at work now that the machine isn't operating properly.

Ran another 'spin only'. After a few redistribution/ramp-up attempts, it is now spinning constantly, although at a greatly reduced speed. Recall that a load of towels once refused to balance properly and after about 30 minutes of trying, it simply spun at a reduced speed for the remainder of the final spin. I'm guessing the software is designed to do that in such cases.

Everything else appears to be operating normally---pump, etc. No error messages.

Malcolm-- Don't know the answer to your question.

Update: Doing my best to recall---accurately--when I last ran a 'spin only' with an empty tub. Probably a couple of months ago after a 'clean washer' cycle (which I only do about 3 times a year). I seem to remember the tub ramping up to full speed without any suspension-related movement whatsoever. No bouncing, as one would expect to see if washing a heavy load of towels. The empty tub test spins of this morning have all had a very noticeable amount tub/suspension movement during the initial tumble and especially during the ramp-up.




This post was last edited 03/28/2017 at 06:11
Post# 929371 , Reply# 6   3/28/2017 at 06:10 by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)        

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Have you tried to unplug the washer for a while and then try again?

Post# 929373 , Reply# 7   3/28/2017 at 06:17 by henene4 (Germany)        

If you turn the drum by hand, is there the whooshing sound related to the liquid in the balancing rings?

Post# 929377 , Reply# 8   3/28/2017 at 07:11 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Louis-- Yes; tried that twice, in fact.

Henrik-- Yes, I hear the whooshing sound it has always made when spinning the tub manually.

My first inclination would be that it's an electronics/board issue....except for all that bouncing of the suspension in the empty tub when it tumbles and especially upon ramp-up. That just doesn't strike me as being normal. There's little tolerance for suspension movement in this washer compared to the 2010 Frigidaire. I would guess that's due to a 4.5 cu. ft. tub being placed in a standard 27" width cabinet.


Post# 929379 , Reply# 9   3/28/2017 at 07:38 by coldspot66 (Plymouth, Mass)        

Could be a broken/disconnected shock absorber causing the outer tub to bounce.

Post# 929384 , Reply# 10   3/28/2017 at 08:58 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Maybe one of the upper suspension springs has broken?

Post# 929390 , Reply# 11   3/28/2017 at 09:55 by johnb300m (Chicago)        
YES!

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Fridge,
We're Maxima buddies and I'm having a similar situation with my 5100.
But I was afraid to say anything out of fear of the "YOU SHOULDA BOUGHT A SPEED QUEEN!" crowd.

Anyway:
That's what always amazed me about these machines!
When they would go into spin, everything would be amazingly balanced 99% of the time, even big heavy towels.
I've touted how amazing the balance was when it was brand new, and after the "awkward phase" of the basket swinging around in ramp-up, it would distribute out and there would be NO tub oscillation during the rest of the spin speeds. NONE. The basket was steady. Even at 1400 rpm with zero vibration.
I LOVED it. Even on my 2nd floor location.

However....
Several months ago there was "an incident."
I had a load of mixed shirts going, and it was in spin while I just watched TV.
Then all of a sudden I heard a loud rumbling coming from the Maxima.
It shut itself down and ended the cycle, likely because there was only 2min. left. But there were NO error codes.
After that "incident" the spins were never that smooth again.
It still operated almost great, but spins were now vibration prone and the tub would always oscillate slightly in spin. Never holding steady like it used to.
I for sure thought something broke.
So I initiated my Home Depot protection plan and had a [really great and knowledgeable] WP tech come out to look at it.
He looked at it and ran some test spins both empty and with wet towels.
However he refused to open it because it's a stacked unit (ughhhh, they need two people).
The tech said it vibrated a bit but it was all within normal parameters and there's nothing he found wrong with it.

Of course I got curious so I opened up the back on my own.
I inspected the struts (fronts were hard to see but they looked fine). However the rear right felt looser than the rear left, so I swapped their cylinders, and redistributed the grease on the friction pads.
That SEEMS to have every so SLIGHTLY alleviated it, but that won't last long.
But....What's curious is the area of spin it has the most oscillation and vibration is in the area where the struts are "free floating" anyway!
These struts allow about .75" of free play, whereas it's likely expected the ball bearing balance rings are supposed to smooth out the rest.
But they don't seem to be!
And I cannot notice any evidence of the balance rings being out of sorts.... I do not notice any bearing noise or basket movement out of round with the tub...

So....I've just been dealing with it. Dealing with longer spin times, and more vibration. It doesn't go into full tilt 1400rpm as much anymore, but it still will.
I'm just waiting for something to fully implode so HD will actually repair or replace it.


Post# 929404 , Reply# 12   3/28/2017 at 11:27 by RevvinKevin (Between Mickey Mouse & the Queen Mary (So. Cal.)        
I agree with John - coldspot66

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Check the suspension, specifically the shocks!   

 

If you have a broken shock, the tub assembly will move around a lot more than it should and the out of balance sensors won't allow it spin.  

 

I've had broken shocks (twice) on an older Frigidare FL that I have.  With only one good shock, the tub assembly moves around A LOT more, even during wash/rinse.  If the load was off balance at all, the tub assembly would bang in the cabinet as it ramped up to speed, then again as it slowed down.   This is an older model without any electronics, so no OOB sensors.

 

Again, check the shocks.

 

 

Kevin


Post# 929406 , Reply# 13   3/28/2017 at 11:49 by Stricklybojack (San Diego, CA)        

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.
The dampers on the Right Height GE I acquired are distressingly flimsy and simplistic considering the importance of the role they play. For the price ($18/ea) they should be made of metal like car shocks and employ something more consequential than an simple friction pad for resistance.




This post was last edited 03/28/2017 at 12:09
Post# 929412 , Reply# 14   3/28/2017 at 12:46 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Thanks so much for your input, everyone! I've been too busy to check the site since first posting this morning.

My hunch is a shock or spring is causing the problem due to the bouncing around of an empty tub as it tumbles and ramps up to spin. I do wash a lot of maximum capacity loads of huge bath sheets at 1400 rpm, so the machine gets a workout. Also a lot of queen-sized comforters.

Will let it limp along until next paycheck and then give the Maytag dealer here a call.


Post# 929413 , Reply# 15   3/28/2017 at 12:54 by Johnb300m (Chicago)        

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Good luck Frig!
I look forward to your findings.
Because I think my issues are related to yours :)


Post# 929436 , Reply# 16   3/28/2017 at 15:12 by washerdude (Canada )        
Had this EXACT issue (and remember posting about it too)

With my WFW72HEDW a year back. It would ramp up, then stop. The fix I found was strange but made sense. Unplug the machine and remove the top panel, locate the wire which comes out of the stator and plugs into the board, at both ends, firmly press in, along with all the other wires going into the board too. Its been a LONG time since this problem had originated and it has not returned since. Our duet is going on 2 years old.

It is NOT a problem with the bearings.

As far as the rumbling goes, it's normal, the rumbling we hear in our machines is the drain hose which is unattached to anything vibrating against the panel during an off balance spin.

Keep in mind, when quick wash is selected, the machine will stop earlier during the final spin if an off balance load is present. This being a quick cycle, it stopping at an earlier stage helps it ramp down quicker due to the low RPM's.

Hope this helps! If not, I don't know what I did with my WP Duet, its been fine ever since and no parts needed replacing.


Post# 929438 , Reply# 17   3/28/2017 at 15:18 by washerdude (Canada )        

"I do wash a lot of maximum capacity loads of huge bath sheets at 1400 rpm"

Funny, we also spin majority of our loads at max speed which is 1200 rpm on our unit.


Post# 929439 , Reply# 18   3/28/2017 at 15:20 by washerdude (Canada )        
My Issue

www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/T...

(Seems well over a year since we've been having this issue)


Post# 929474 , Reply# 19   3/28/2017 at 20:12 by whirlykenmore78 (Prior Lake MN (GMT-0700 CDT.))        
Frig and John:

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I am sorry to hear of your machines failing so soon. I really expected more from Whirlpool's high end washer line. I would thing either a failed sensor or broken suspension component could be causing the problem.
I hope you can get this resolved and WP's warranty is good enough to cover it. If my machine was doing this at a young age I would expect that Alliance fix it under warranty as they guarantee the machine for 5 years.
WK78


Post# 929485 , Reply# 20   3/28/2017 at 21:13 by washerdude (Canada )        
Another thing I do want to point out

The empty tub bouncing around that much is also normal, because it's empty there's absolutely no weight inside the tub to help counter the movement. It thrashing around this much is purely the balancing rings distributing. Usually I find you really can't determine the balance on the spin right at the thrashing point, because for us there have been loads where the tub moves around so violently it comes close to hitting the glass (and has on a few), but when it reaches its full spin its 100% stable and there are no vibrations. I almost always find that the way the tub moves around during the start is 100% random and never is the same empty or loaded. There have been times where it just ramps up without even shaking at the start.

I remember for us this problem took place just over a year of ownership, and when this was happening I was really fed up Whirlpool's electronics because I assumed almost straight away it was the main board going bad...that board costs a little over $300, and just for the board, not including labor. Plus to add, we never got warranty. I was ready to chuck the WP appliance and just get an LG because at that point I was giving up with their units. It was only until after playing around with the wires it immediately started behaving like normal. I guess this makes sense, our washer got only a "Good" rating for vibration, and it being on the second floor of a wood framed house only adds to the vibrations which probably managed to loosen the wires slightly overtime, that or all of our machines are lemons.

Once I was trying to wash our king size duvet, and the spin between the rinses, just skipped because it was taking so long to balance. One time we washed a queen size duvet and on the final spin it managed to reach 800-900 RPM and it immediately cut off and went into redistributing. Strange because all the times we've washed comforters it ramps up easily without redistributing in the middle of the spin and its almost fully balanced too.

It's hard to see, but would you say your washers tub thrashes around this much?






Post# 929521 , Reply# 21   3/29/2017 at 07:19 by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Oh NO

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Frigilux and John. I'm not glad to hear this since this is going to be my next washer - A maxima or Duet.

My Duet experiences something similar. It's 12 yrs old now but this started like 4 or 5 years ago. It's always the first spin after the wash before the first rinse, and it does NOT always do this. It varies. What happens is sometimes the spin doesn't reach full interim spin speed, which I think is medium. It will reach like half that (still an ok spin speed) and I it's always so random when it happens, no matter the cycle choice or load size (I almost always select max spin speed. It's never any of the other spins, just the first. So I've learned to live with the randomness of it, but it has not always done this the first few years.

I hope you get this figured out.


Post# 929544 , Reply# 22   3/29/2017 at 10:10 by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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Thanks folks.
The insight has been enlightening.
AND SORRY FOR HIJACKING FRIG'S THREAD! :)

I'm not so sure mine is a motor problem. I'm guessing more suspension?
I wonder if Frig's could be more motor related if he's seeing more auto-balance issues but nothing too physical in the suspension?

Mine will struggle in all spins sometimes but seemingly only from balance and the tub thrashing about. But once it redistributes once, or 4 times...it becomes happy enough and proceeds. But it's still quite bouncy!

Washerdude, thanks, that video was very helpful in revealing the speeds and behaviors in certain ranges. To answer your question, yes, my machine will thrash about in the very early stages of ramp-up. It's never hit the glass yet, haha! But it comes close.
However the difference is when it was new, up till a few months ago, it would TOTALLY smooth out to where there was NO discernible tub oscillation in spin, whether it was an empty basket, or full of undies or even jeans.

Now here's the perplexing part. The amount of vibration and oscillation I now have, seems to be out of scope with where the dampers are even engaged.

www.suspa.com/us/products/dampers...

As you see in the link above. The dampers these WP MT series machines have, use a damper with a "free floating" zone where they do not even engage for about 3/4" of travel. That's where I'm getting the most shaking.

However, last night I played with it more, and pushed on it with my hands in various directions, and I noticed, by feel, some slight discrepancies.
In the picture attached, you'll notice in areas where I pressed upon, it seems like the front left quadrant seemed more "bouncy" and less resistant than the other quadrants. It also seemed kinda bouncy when angling it forward, more than aft.
As you see, pushing and pulling it front and back seemed rather easy, but I cannot tell if that's how it's supposed to be or not.

I have a hunch that there's an issue with that front left damper, but my units are stacked, and I'm not sure I can get the front panel off.
PLUS, i'm still under 3yr Home Depot warranty, and I don't want to void it.
Hence why I've been living with this and hoping it gets worse. Ha!
As earlier stated, the onset was quite sudden, in an "incident" so I'm thinking something in that free floating damper mechanism failed, or maybe the tub mount itself cracked in that front left area? I just cannot see it to confirm.

As for MarkWP, I'd still say don't fret :)
I still like my Maxima! And if Home Depot eventually replaces it in a year? I'd get another one! The performance is awesome.
And honestly? There's complaints all around on all machines out there, even the legendary speed queens!
I'd still say take the gamble, and if you like the newer WP machines, go for it. If you like something else at the time? Go for it.


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Post# 929554 , Reply# 23   3/29/2017 at 11:41 by logixx (Germany)        

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Here's another video of a Duet. It's interesting how much the tub bounces compared to the simple design of the German-made unit.






Post# 929587 , Reply# 24   3/29/2017 at 17:06 by appnut (TX)        

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My  nearly 5.5 y/o Duet has some spin attitude at times.  It will ramp up and spin for maybe 30 seconds or a minute and then stop and redistribute.  And sometimes it seems to have a really difficult time balancing.  Other times it will take off spinning and shake significantly and keep on going--just seems to smooth out as it gets faster. I've not used ex high speed as a general rule for probably a year or more thanks to Andrew.  I use high for towels, sheets,  as Eugene puts it "personal whites", as well as sweats or jersey t-shirts & shorts around the house.  All my casual wear/work clothes are spun on medium and my compression stockings on ex-lo.    I just don't see a significant added "return" using ex high vs. high for those designated loads.  The difference in drying time is negligible. 


Post# 929610 , Reply# 25   3/29/2017 at 19:36 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Just washed a small load of whites on the Normal cycle. The final spin began doing the ramp-up/tumble malfunction. After a few minutes it began spinning at around 400-500 rpm. The countdown held at 11 minutes for about five minutes. Then it beeped twice and I thought maybe it was flashing an error code. Nope. Went back into the family room to watch TV. A few minutes later, I heard it gradually ramp up to what I assume was near full speed---maybe 1000 rpm.

I wonder what the deal with the two beeps was and if it had anything to do with the machine eventually spinning near full speed? Weird.

Update: Tried a spin only (empty tub) and it ramped up to what sounded like the usual 1400 the last couple of minutes in the cycle (which is the normal protocol). Won't wash again 'til Sunday or Monday. Will be interested to see if it behaves normally with a full load.





This post was last edited 03/29/2017 at 19:56
Post# 930285 , Reply# 26   4/3/2017 at 04:58 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Returned last night from five days of road warrior out-of-state gigging. Washed four loads overnight and it is spinning at 1400 once again with only one symptom of a problem: A chattering sound during spin which goes away as the rpm's crank up over 1000.

Were I a betting man, I'd say it's one of the shock absorbers.

The $64,000 Question: Why did the washer refuse to spin at full speed last week (symptoms explained above). What were the two beeps about? Did the washer's software adjust itself to the new conditions over a few loads?





Post# 931752 , Reply# 27   4/11/2017 at 00:52 by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Any updates

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on this frigilux?

Post# 931767 , Reply# 28   4/11/2017 at 04:48 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Have washed about 10 loads since the last post. There is some "chattering" as the machine ramps up to speed. Most spun normally, save for two that refused to go faster than about 400-500 rpm. Again, the machine beeped twice mid-cycle (in the interval of a major third for the musicians out there) and then it behaved normally for a few loads.

Money is tight at the moment, so I'm letting it do its thing for another month or so. Then I'll call the dealer/repairman.



Post# 931776 , Reply# 29   4/11/2017 at 07:21 by logixx (Germany)        

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Maybe you should record a few cycles and see what actually causes the beeping - maybe it's even a temporary power failure. Your Maytag does have the tub light that remains on until you turn it off, right?

Post# 931857 , Reply# 30   4/11/2017 at 18:07 by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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So, I don't know if this is related at all, but my mother-in-law's Whirlpool Cabrio 8500 seems to behave in a similar fashion sometimes...and it's a top loader. It seems that no matter how level the machine is, or what size load it's washing, it seems to periodically decide that it doesn't want to go into full speed spin, and sticks around the 500 rpm level and tacks on a few more minutes to the cycle. If I'm not mistaken, your machine and John's are of the same generation as this Cabrio, and from what I've read, these new machines now have accelerometers built into the logic board that will "adapt" to its surroundings and will also force the machine to lower the spin speeds if it senses that a full speed spin might vibrate or cause excess noise.

For her machine in particular, I've tweaked the leveling feet to the point that I can't get the washer more level even if I tried. All four feet are firmly planted to the floor (which is tile on concrete slab), and the basket is dead center in the opening, yet at certain points in the spin, the body will vibrate just enough that it looks like the machine might start walking, yet the feet are still planted down. For some reason, they are now using these large plastic leveling feet that seem designed to give slightly. I'm not sure if this is a penny pinching decision or if it is supposed to help reduce vibration on less stable flooring, but in any case, I'm not a fan. I'd much rather have the solid metal locking bolt feet that are on my BravosXL, because my machine doesn't so much as vibrate even with heavy loads.

From what I can tell, the feet on the front loader Duet/Maxima are still traditional locking bolts like mine; could the machine be at all off-level, even slightly? Enough that it could cause the basket to vibrate outside of its thresholds and cause the logic board to force slow spins?


Post# 931863 , Reply# 31   4/11/2017 at 18:21 by washerdude (Canada )        
Just a theory:

Could this be the machine telling you that the tub is hitting the cabinets side panels during the spin cycle and is prompting the user to stop the unit? Never once, did our washer beep when it had this issue, nothing even came up in diagnostics despite it even doing the exact same thing in the diagnostic cycle.

Post# 931992 , Reply# 32   4/12/2017 at 11:09 by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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Very interesting insight, guys.

In my situation I have not experienced any "beeps" during cycle.
That seems to be a deeper issue in the software I would gather.

My vibration issues seem to be more intermittent lately, since I swapped dampers in the rear, but still apparent.
Andrew's correct, that these new machines all have accelerometers in the control panel, the motor controller, or both.
Some loads create different vibrations and harmonics, based on solid or wood floors.
Mine are on 2nd story wood floors, which does have a little give.
There's also a dryer stacked on top, which could be affecting movements/vibration.
The fact that my units are stacked, makes it very difficult to level the legs. I was able to make small adjustments when I had the rear panel off, weeks ago. It "seems" pretty stable but with the wood floor, it may never be perfect.

I'm more curious about Frig's beeps!
I wonder if there's a control issue, maybe along with one or more "weakened" but not "bad" dampers?

That Duet video was very interesting!
I must state that when my Maxima was brand new, in full spin, there was even LESS tub movement than that. I'm saying, almost none!
That WP vid certainly shows some oscillation on spin, but it's minimal.
That's what my machine will do now, or maybe a tad more, after "the incident."


Post# 932081 , Reply# 33   4/12/2017 at 20:07 by appnut (TX)        

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As mentioned in a post above, there's a guy on YouTube (Dean's Washer Videos) who moved from Australia to Canada.  He had an LG in Australia and decided on purchasing comparable WP about 3 or 4 years ago.  I vaguely remember him making a comment after one of his new LG washer videos when asked what happened to the WP.  First they just liked the LG better.  But he also began experiencing the situation where it wouldn't spin above medium.  He got it fixed, but I think he said there's a software issue with this series of WPs.  The replacement LG was procured summer of 2015 or 2016. 


Post# 932425 , Reply# 34   4/14/2017 at 18:46 by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
A software issue?

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So you think that might be the problem of these 2 machines having spin issues? If so, I wonder if it's been corrected by WP?

Post# 932449 , Reply# 35   4/14/2017 at 20:14 by washerdude (Canada )        
Another Possible Fix?

Ironically enough, its the exact same model as mine. Apparently replacing the stater fixed the problem. However I have not replaced anything but mess around with the wires and somehow it managed to work. The link below has a similar problem but their unit managed to reach 1200rpm then immediately stop. This seems to be a rare issue only on some models, I really can't find anything still as of this date about this issue.

www.applianceblog.com/mai...



Post# 932574 , Reply# 36   4/15/2017 at 18:26 by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Ahhh

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What does a stater do? I looked and it looks like a relatively expensive part.

Post# 932580 , Reply# 37   4/15/2017 at 18:49 by washerdude (Canada )        
OOPS!

Meant the stator motor LOL! Not sure how the stator has anything to do with the problem considering WP units don't even use a hall sensor... It seems as if its mearly just a stator style motor mounted to the back of the tub with nothing else, which could point to another indication of software issues. What is beginning to worry me now is if messing around with the wires really didn't fix it, is the problem just laying low for now?

Post# 932582 , Reply# 38   4/15/2017 at 18:54 by washerdude (Canada )        
Prices

The price of the stator is a little alarming...
www.whirlpoolparts.com/Pa...


Post# 932803 , Reply# 39   4/16/2017 at 19:14 by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
@ washerdude

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There are two alarming things about that link you posted:

A) the price
B) the fact that it's OUT OF STOCK!


Post# 932826 , Reply# 40   4/16/2017 at 21:40 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Mark,

The stator is the non-moving part of the drum drive motor. It generates a magnetic field (forward and reverse) to turn the rotor, drive shaft, and drum.

The online parts source I've been using lists it at $198 and claims in-stock.


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Post# 932831 , Reply# 41   4/16/2017 at 22:27 by henene4 (Germany)        
Hmmm

As far as I know these are driven 3-phase... So some imperfections in the stator could cause the MCU to get wrong readings in terms of power draw, making it belife there is a OOB situation...

It could be one of those "multiple slight issues, but non causing a fault alone" situations:
-aging dampers
-bug in MCU software (calibration drifting out of sync, and the beeps might be recalibration signals or such).
-loose connections
-slight irregularities in the motor itself
-enviroment (fluctuations in the power grid, maybe stray radio signals, such random stuff)

I guess actually troubleshooting this without a fixed constant to work off of will be more a guessing game then help.



On another note: Someone mentioned these don't use hall sensors. How do they monitor speed then? Some feedback winding in the stator, or are they just taking the frequency they drive the motor with as ensured speed, basicly keeping a tumbling speed without any feedback about it?

Latter could be another possibility: The MCU registering any parameters that might suggest something wrong with the motor...
Does anyone have a service manual for one of those Duets or clones with the DD motor?


Post# 932886 , Reply# 42   4/17/2017 at 09:08 by washerdude (Canada )        
@henene4

Yep there are no hall sensors on WP based units. Seems you can only see them on Samsung and LG units. My assumption is that speed control and direction are heavily controlled by the CCU. I remember on the older generation of DD WP FL's, they actually used two control boards. A motor control board, and a main control board. After the first or second generations, the second board was ditched and it now seems to be fully controlled by the main board.

Not sure if this has anything to do with it, but I noticed on certain heavier loads on my washer, the tub sometimes spins the opposite direction it intended to and it causes a clunk, then a slight buzz followed by a pause and then spins the proper direction. On Deans videos of his LG, i have never heard that, maybe this is because of more accurate feedback thanks to the hall sensor?

Whirlpool is generally good about fixing issues and bugs like these without causing a huge scene *Cough Samsung Cough*, and often the issues are no longer present in the newer versions of the machines. It makes me wonder now, could this be a reason why Whirlpool updated their previous line of DD FL's? I wonder if its fixed on the present models.






Post# 938949 , Reply# 43   5/17/2017 at 07:17 by hvtech42 (New England)        
Service bulletin

I just checked, and Whirlpool has a service pointer out for this issue on this model. Their solution is to replace the main board, which differs from the above fixes of reconnecting the stator motor and replacing the stator. I notice they only listed a limited serial range (40th week of 2015 thru 36th week of 2016 manufacture dates). There are also a lot of direct drive front load models missing from the list.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO hvtech42's LINK


Post# 939736 , Reply# 44   5/22/2017 at 05:56 by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Well

mark_wpduet's profile picture
I'm glad they are aware of it and updating it. I was worried since my next washer is going to be either a Duet or Maytag.

Frigilux - You haven't posted about this in forever.


Post# 940147 , Reply# 45   5/24/2017 at 23:43 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Haven't had it looked at, yet. It appears to be reaching the proper spin speed, so I'm reluctant to bring in a service guy at this point.

Post# 940314 , Reply# 46   5/26/2017 at 09:29 by johnb300m (Chicago)        
another incident

johnb300m's profile picture
So I had another incident last night, washing a medium load of jeans in my 5100.
5 pairs so it was about 2/3 full.
Done this many times before.

But when it got to the point of the final 2 minutes of the spin, where it ramps all the way up to 1400rpm briefly, things went awry.

As it ramped up to 1400, the noise and vibration became excessive enough to shake my whole 2nd floor, and the machine promptly ended the spin cycle.
Nothing was so bad where the stacked unit did not shift at all in place. But it was still excessively loud and prompted a shut-down.
Thinking something might've just shifted on that ramp-up, I ran the jeans again through a separate "Drain/Spin" cycle.
SAME outcome.
Regular spin ramp ups seemed fine. Even the high speed right before full ramp up seemed ok.
Just when things went full tilt to 1400 did it go all crazy.

I still cannot discern if there's anything truly wrong in the suspension.
There's still excessive horizontal oscillation in the suspension during spins.
But it's been rather well behaved recently. Until last night.

I tried several times, really hard, to hold the tub steady, and put upward force on the steel basket to sense play.
I'm just not sure.
I DID feel a very slight "click" as I pressed upward on the basket.
I don't know if that's normal, or if that's the sign of a loose seated bearing, or a weakness in the spider.......

I may have to induce it again, and record it on video, for a future repair call.


Post# 940335 , Reply# 47   5/26/2017 at 13:29 by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
John -

mark_wpduet's profile picture
I forgot you too basically have the same machine as Frigilux - I want to keep an eye on this post to see if the mystery ever gets solved.

Post# 940345 , Reply# 48   5/26/2017 at 14:39 by washerdude (Canada )        
Jeans and FL's

Washing jeans in my WP Duet clone have never been consistent when it comes to the spin cycle, washing yes, but not spin. A couple weeks back we did a load of 5 pairs of jeans and at the second spin, everything seemed balanced and there was little tub movement, until it began ramping up. The tub went completely out of tilt and began hitting the door so hard to the point the door began shaking and the ENTIRE machine began shifting like an off balance top loader, I did stop it nonetheless, I just find it strange how the CCU thinks that this is fine...

Anyways.

Here's something a little off about my washer after all. When you look at the tub directly across, the tub DOES NOT look perfectly on center at all. It seems to dip down towards the front left. I should note, when I grab the tub and swing it against the cabinet towards the left, it seems VERY easy to do, but when I try to do the same on right, it takes some force and effort to make the tub hit the right side of the cabinet.



Post# 940387 , Reply# 49   5/26/2017 at 19:10 by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

Well, my jeans cycle default spin is medium and if that's what Whirlpool thinks it's best to be, I won't up it.  And I don't have problems.


Post# 940616 , Reply# 50   5/28/2017 at 06:02 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Don't see how spinning a load of jeans at 1400 rpm could be any more difficult for the machine than doing the same with a BobLoad of bath towels. I spin everything but dress shirts/pants at 1400---even comforters.

Haven't owned a pair of jeans for years, so the Maytag 8100 has never washed any.





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