|
Thread Number: 70289
/ Tag: Modern Dryers
Whirlpool compact heatpump dryers |
[Down to Last] |  |
|
| Post# 932013 , Reply# 1 4/12/2017 at 14:05 (2,564 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
Surprised | ||
Post# 932050 , Reply# 2 4/12/2017 at 17:29 (2,563 days old) by appnut  (TX) |
||
 | ||
|
Post# 932116 , Reply# 3 4/12/2017 at 23:19 (2,563 days old) by warmsecondrinse (Fort Lee, NJ) |
||
|
I see just one slight problem for those in older buildings. The 240/208v requirement. In many older buildings, especially in the northeast only 120v is available and venting is not. It's a problem. Jim | ||
|
Post# 932121 , Reply# 4 4/13/2017 at 00:54 (2,563 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
Yes, that is correct
But much new construction (and there is *PLENTY* of it ) has the proper electrical requirements here in NYC. In fact many new rental or condo units have washing machines and dryers already installed, and often one or both run on 208v-240v power.
It is just the nature of the beast, especially when much new construction is rehabbing former office buildings and or commercial space into apartments. There are only a certain number of outside facing walls then, and thus you aren't going to be able to vent outdoors for everyone's dryer. Yet having a washing machine and dryer has become nearly standard requirement for those seeking to rent or buy in NYC, especially Manhattan or downtown Brooklyn. Were I paying a few to several million for an apartment you can bet it better have laundry equipment either installed or at least be able to accommodate with proper water, drain and electric connections. Up until now many of these dryers are usually condenser. One has written before about how some swear by such units here, or swear at them. It remains to be seen how these heat pump dryers will be received. The other trend here in NYC is that much new construction is going towards all electric apartments. That is induction for range top cooking, electric oven and or microwave along with some sort of PTAC for heating or cooling. For the latter buildings are also going with central AC and heating of various methods as well, but steam heating, once so common in NYC seems to be less and less installed in new construction. www.nytimes.com/2011/01/02/reales... www.apartments.com/45-st-marks-p... Going with all electric apartments allows landlords or property owners to skip the costs of installing gas lines. It also allows them in case of rentals not to have to worry about either installing individual meters or having gas included with the apartment lease. Of course the boom in "compact" (ok, European standard sized) front loading washing machines along with other equally similar top loaders means more and more New Yorkers are sneaking laundry equipment into their apartments, lease or building be darned. Those Whirlpool/Kenmore compact dryers that have been on sale for what seems like forever are nearly everywhere. | ||
|
Post# 932130 , Reply# 5 4/13/2017 at 03:43 (2,563 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
||
Flabbergasting that Whirlpool brings these on the market for 208-240 Volts. The European equivalent draws only 950 Watts.
www.whirlpool.co.uk/appliances-1/... They could have easily made this a popular dryer for people in older buildings as Jim described. And then the rating of 30 Amps. Jaw dropping! | ||
|
Post# 932135 , Reply# 6 4/13/2017 at 06:11 (2,563 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
||
|
That was one of the confusing things as well, they could run off 120V for sure. That's why I put so much hope into HP dryers for the US market. | ||
|
Post# 932138 , Reply# 7 4/13/2017 at 06:43 (2,563 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
||
 | ||
|
Post# 932140 , Reply# 8 4/13/2017 at 06:49 (2,563 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
||
|
I guess they just ported the design from the EU. And given this is just the MSRP, the price tag in the end I guess is about equal to the EU priceing. | ||
|
Post# 932142 , Reply# 9 4/13/2017 at 07:05 (2,563 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 932145 , Reply# 10 4/13/2017 at 07:14 (2,563 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
||
I'm surprised to see Whirlpool kept the Warm Rinse option on these.
View Full Size
| ||
|
Post# 932165 , Reply# 12 4/13/2017 at 09:11 (2,563 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
||
|
IIRC normal high voltage in the USA is 240V. 240V x 30 Amps would be 7200 Watts. Because the motor needs probably around 200 Watts, we are left with 7000 Watts power for the heatpump. Now I don't know much about heatmpumps, but just assume that the heatpump delivers twice the amount of heat as it consumes. That would mean the heat in this dryer would be 14000 Watts. I think that would be a bit too much for a compact dryer. Instant scorching!
I don't think the heatpump in the American Whirlpool compacts would be very different from the European equivalent. | ||
| Post# 932169 , Reply# 13 4/13/2017 at 10:05 (2,563 days old) by Pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada) | ||
 | ||
|
Post# 932175 , Reply# 14 4/13/2017 at 10:29 (2,563 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
||
|
I see it`s probably just a typo and the dryer might even run on a standard 120 V circuit at 950 Watts.
But who knows for sure ? It could just as well be a bigger heat pump let`s say 2000 Watts. That would make for a comparable heat output of conventional US dryers. Then it would of course require a little more juice than the standard 15 or 20 Amps 120 V wiring can handle so this might explain why they could have opted for those possibly already existing 30 Amps 240V dryer outlets. It`s just my silly speculation but one thing is certain: Americans don`t like endless cycle times. | ||
|
Post# 932228 , Reply# 16 4/13/2017 at 17:13 (2,562 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
Dryer's specs
Call for 120/240v power at 30 amps for the 4.3 cubic foot model (compact). In other words this "compact" dryer requires the same electric dryer connections as any full sized version sold in the USA.
www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin... Here is the Whirlpool "Duet" ventless dryer (one assumes just a standard condenser model), and it also has same power requirements: www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin... Blomberg also sells a "heat pump" dryer in the USA it seems, but cannot tell from the write up if it is such or just a condenser. www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin... Download Whirlpool's manual here: www.ajmadison.com/ajmadis... | ||
|
Post# 932235 , Reply# 17 4/13/2017 at 17:43 (2,562 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
Only way to settle this debate regarding power draw for heaters is for someone to in person have a peep at rating plate.
If there was a remote possibility these "compact" heat pump dryers could run on 120v only power, would assume WP would have done so. It certainly would have increased their sales as far more persons in urban and other situations have access to 120v power over 208v-240v. | ||
|
Post# 932236 , Reply# 18 4/13/2017 at 17:48 (2,562 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
||
|
The Blomberg is a heat pump dryer, rated at 208-240V and 5 amps.
Specs: www.blombergappliances.com/compac... | ||
|
Post# 932243 , Reply# 19 4/13/2017 at 18:26 (2,562 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
Not to drift too much off topic
But NYC landlords and developers are moving away from steam and perhaps centrally controlled heating (boilers) for a few good reasons.
First there is the chronic problem of keeping a steam heating plant in good order to prevent some tenants roasting while others complain they are "cold". Give everyone their own heating system and or ability to control and that solves one very large problem. This winter was rather mild but our building more often than not had the steam cranked up very high. This was due to several older to elderly persons who constantly complained they were "cold", and some even filed complaints with the city about "lack of heat". When inspectors arrived they only had to walk into the over heated building to see this was nonsense, but there you are then. One of the main reasons you are seeing less steam heating installed is the fact much new construction using glass curtain walls instead of full masonry of old. These steel and glass buildings are faster and cheaper to put up, but you cannot use steam heating as there isn't anywhere to run the pipes. Leave us not forget one of our own who does in fact work for WP was kind enough to share his observations and comments regarding HP dryer: www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/T... | ||
|
Post# 932266 , Reply# 20 4/13/2017 at 21:13 (2,562 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
Back on topic
Following is a pretty decent review along with comments on the WP heat pump dryers:
www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blog... Cannot find mention of it in owner's manual, but apparently it does seem that the WP dryers do allow for faster drying using a some sort of different method than heat pump. Another review stated on "quick" the dryer did a full load in about 45 minutes. That kind of speed simply cannot come from a pure condenser/heat pump drying system alone, especially one that handles large loads as the WP units. This tells one that there is some sort of resistance heating elements that can be used to crank up the heat where necessary. That would explain the 30amp requirements. Furthermore WP like most others hailing heat pump technology makes much noise about heated or cooled air not being vented out of the home. Well there are great periods of the year when neither the heating nor air conditioning systems are running for most of the USA. Today for instance here in NYC the boilers didn't come on and we certainly didn't run the AC, this was with outdoor temps in the low 60's (F). CLICK HERE TO GO TO Launderess's LINK | ||
|
Post# 932294 , Reply# 21 4/14/2017 at 04:05 (2,562 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 932506 , Reply# 23 4/15/2017 at 08:57 (2,561 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
"I'm surprised to see Whirlpool kept the Warm Rinse option on these"
In some parts of the USA tap cold water can be quite cold indeed, especially during the colder months of the year. For such instances you want or need "warm" water for rinsing. The SQ washing machines at local laundromat use a mixture of hot and cold water during the final rinse. That is hot water comes down through the fabric softener dispenser and cold on the other side. Am guessing this is to prevent FS from being a congealed mess and thus not dispense properly during cold weather. | ||
|
Post# 932508 , Reply# 24 4/15/2017 at 09:11 (2,561 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
So funktioniert der Miele Wärmepumpentrockner Miele
How the Miele heat pump dryer works:
What you notice at once is why these heat pump dryers are more maintenance intensive then the already so condenser dryers. In a normal condenser dryer one removes the "condenser" to clean. With a heat pump dryer since the thing is mated to a refrigerant system, that is not possible. Hence there needs to be a good number of filters in place to keep the condenser clean. | ||
|
Post# 932546 , Reply# 25 4/15/2017 at 14:42 (2,561 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
||
|
True about the warm rinse - but how many current US front loaders offer this option? LG and Whirlpool in Europe have it, so I was surprised to see that Whirlpool didn't remove this feature for the Americanized version.
That Miele video is pretty old. Back then, every filter was two-layered, meaning you had to clean up to six filters (periodically). Today's dryers have reduced the number of filters. | ||
|
Post# 932573 , Reply# 27 4/15/2017 at 18:23 (2,560 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
Read the owner's manual for Miele heat pump dryer
It only cautions not to place the thing in an area that is too warm/hot or cold.
As for being "worth it", well we must remember like other condenser dryers the answer isn't always cut and dry. Condenser/vent-less dryers are meant to provide a solution to a problem; how to have a tumble dryer where venting does not allow. When compared to vented a condenser dryer of any sort including heat pump will be slower on average. Yes, there are tons of various "savings" supposedly coming from energy use, reduced wear upon textiles, environment, and so forth, but there you are. Everything one has read so far on these heap pump dryers clearly says one would need to own the things for a very long time *and* do large amounts of laundry to make the them even remotely pay off. That is if you line dry most washing and only use any sort of dryer when weather is bad or need things in a hurry, then it could take ages before you've gotten your money back in whatever savings from these heat pump dryers. www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help/buyin... My AEG Oko-Lavamat can take one hour to almost three to do a load of washing. A full load of terry bath linen will dry in the AEG Oko-Lavatherm in about two hours or so (give or take). In the small Whilrpool compact same load would dry in about one and one half hours. Faster if one breaks up the load into two smaller batches. Heat pump dryers are taking condenser drying to the next level. That is they deal with the problems of such dryers very reliant upon the air/weather conditions surrounding in order to work properly. Condenser dryers are popular in northern Europe, and they would be wouldn't they? Temps are often cool to cold if not usually damp. As anyone in a more temperate climate such s South of France or even New York City during a good part of the year can tell you, a condenser dryer just won't work when weather is very warm to hot and humid. Only way around this is to create the same northern European environment; that is turn on the AC. | ||
|
Post# 932692 , Reply# 29 4/16/2017 at 06:21 (2,560 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
Our area is currently around
Nineteen cents per kWh:
www.bls.gov/regions/new-y... However your dryer usage is far greater than ours. If the Whirlpool is used every other week or two for one or maybe two loads that is saying something. As for the AEG Oko-Lavatherm it sees only a handful of action per year. Much of this is simply due to the climate/weather. NYC is simply too warm or even hot much of the year to make a condenser dryer work. Linens and shirts are ironed so that takes them out of the equation. Heavy and thick things like blankets while washed at home are taken round to the local launderette and bunged into their huge gas dryers. Some blankets are simply air dried over horses. | ||
|
Post# 932705 , Reply# 30 4/16/2017 at 10:37 (2,560 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
||
|
Cute | ||
|
Post# 932988 , Reply# 35 4/17/2017 at 18:41 (2,558 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
While yes, in general you don't want to open the doors of a condenser dryer while it is running a cycle more than necessary (read try not to at all); my AEG Lavatherm has no problems recovering, long as door isn't opened for too long. The problems with Equator likely would have more to do with using 120v power which means heating is going to be rather puny.
As for where condenser dryers are mostly sold/used; we've said; northern European countries or parts of such as UK, Scandinavia, Germany, France, Poland, etc... Any place where it is mostly cool or cold for large parts of the year. Though IIRC at least one country has banned all sales of condenser ventless dryers in favor of heat pump only. Vented or ventless will come down to what persons can install. However overall line/hang drying remains quite popular in Europe, especially in the southern/warmer areas. erikras.com/2011/04/12/domestic-... www.quora.com/Why-do-Amer... | ||
|
Post# 932990 , Reply# 36 4/17/2017 at 18:49 (2,558 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
| ||
|
Post# 933005 , Reply# 38 4/17/2017 at 19:53 (2,558 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
"8h cold air only cycle" | ||
|
Post# 933017 , Reply# 40 4/17/2017 at 20:25 (2,558 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
||
|
Well one could simply hang washing to dry, then bung it into the dryer with a damp towel for ten or so minutes, and still pretty much effects along with energy savings.
Perhaps it is just one, but never go to sleep or even out of the house leaving major electrical appliances running. The air conditioner is the one obvious exception. | ||
| Forum Index: |
| Other Forums: |
|
|
|
|
|
Comes to the Rescue!
