Thread Number: 70368  /  Tag: Detergents and Additives
Detergents for both TL&FL.
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Post# 932830   4/16/2017 at 22:12 by twinniefan (Sydney Australia)        

twinniefan's profile picture
This has been puzzling me for a little while now, seeing as most of the detergents nowadays are formulated for both top loaders and front loaders, unlike previously, have all detergents now really just been changed to front load formula anyway?, and if this is the case, would they still be effective in top loaders without the various foaming agents.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any means, however are the detergent manufacturers expecting the end of top load washers in the future, or have consumers basically told them they don't like searching for their respective brand.
Years and years ago here in OZ,if you owned a front loader, it was Omomatic or nothing, then we had various brand using the term Matic for the FL version, i.e. Surfmatic Spreematic etc, now just buy any you like for both.
Is this the case with overseas brands as well?





Post# 932835 , Reply# 1   4/16/2017 at 23:33 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Most P&G detergents

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Here such as Tide "HE" are now supposed to be for *all* such machines; H-axis and top loading. However the dosages seem a bit high for my Miele or AEG Oko-Lavamat, so use less than recommended amounts.

When it comes to European detergents in my stash (Persil, Ariel, Saint Croix, etc...) find can use a bit less than given amount in most instances because of our very soft water.

Still it always pays to match dosage to soil loads.


Post# 932836 , Reply# 2   4/16/2017 at 23:40 by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

Steve,

Years ago, supposedly one could just use 1/3 to 1/2 of a TL dose in a FL.

The idea is that the *concentration* of detergent in water is the same, and as long as you still have enough detergent to remove the dirt from the clothes, it would work. Also, that the TL was wasting detergent, if you want to look at it from that particular angle.

Once FL started using less and less water (and became High Efficiency), it seems that things changed a bit. Detergent manufacturers started insisting that HE detergents contain the full dose that a TL would use, but not only there is less suds (suds do not clean, just tell you how much detergent there is in the water), but they increased the amount of things like color transfer inhibitors. When HE detergents were introduced, at least here in America, they told people to use the same scoop for either machine, the difference was you would see no suds.

Nowadays a lot of brands here still make two versions, but more and more the top of the line detergent brands seem to be unifying around the dual purpose (HE/regular) formulas.

Whether or not regular machines will or are expected to disappear, people seem to begin to believe that suds do not help any in cleaning and can make it a pain in the rear to rinse.

I have switched to HE detergents a few years ago, and my favorite so far is Rosalie's Zero Suds. If I use a regular detergent and it even begins to produce excess suds, I'm quick with a generous dose of anti-sudsing agents and I haven't regretted it yet.

Good luck,
   -- Paulo.


Post# 932837 , Reply# 3   4/16/2017 at 23:45 by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

Launderess:

Yes, I've noticed that the dosages for say, Tide HE Turbo seem a bit high.

P&G addresses that in their movies about Tide HE Turbo in their website. They claim that the FL dosage is higher because they tend to hold way more clothes than a "regular size" TL, and demonstrate that by dropping the load from a TL inside a FL drum and it's obvious it's about half the load for the FL.

However, I do believe that the traditional 5-6 kg load from Euro machines is about half of the size of the new FL loads too, so, yes, using less and dosing for the soil level does pay, it's what I do too.

Cheers,
   -- Paulo.


Post# 932856 , Reply# 4   4/17/2017 at 01:28 by Twinniefan (Sydney Australia)        
TL detergent in FL

twinniefan's profile picture
Hi guys
Paulo, Yes that's quite true about using a lower dose of TL detergent in a FL, however, I remember Lever&kitchen, (Unilever now), warning that this wasn't really good as less powder would result in dingy whites, faded colours etc.
This was really just a plug to convince consumers to buy Omomatic, so they had a captive audience, although the market share of FL!'s in Australia then would have been pretty small.
Given I'm now the owner of a fairly new FL it's much and muchly for me now, in fact my biggest gripe with detergents now are the sickeningly sweet fragrances most of them have, especially Fab and Surf.
Actually I wish Henkel would ditch Fab and go back to mass production of Spree.
I loved Spree because performance wise it was similar to Surf and Fsb anyway, but each variation had a single, simple fragrance not a damn potpourri.
The fresh linen one was my favourite with Summer Breeze next followed by lemon.
Cheers guys.


Post# 932863 , Reply# 5   4/17/2017 at 02:19 by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

Steve,

Like many here, when the new HE detergents appeared in the 90's, I thought they were just pulling the wool over our eyes, and I just used less detergent in my FL machines, used to work OK.

Then I found an inexpensive source for German Persil (Henkel) and changed my mind about full doses that did not oversuds. A few years ago, when Gain started selling their HE version, I had a box of regular Gain and decided to experiment. It does appear that half a dose of Gain did not clean near as well in my FL as a full dose of HE. Being a bit on the cautious side, I tried half a dose of Gain HE and it seemed to clean about the same as half a dose of the regular one, although with less suds. Then I tried a full dose of regular gain in the FL, and put some anti-sudsing agent when the detergent started to build too much suds. Ah-ha! About the same performance, so at the very least it seems that manufacturers were not lying completely.

Since then, if I want to buy a detergent that is not HE (my washers are all FL now except for a twin-tub), I keep an eye on the machine and put the anti-sudsing agent if necessary. You could try that if they still sell regular versions that you like. It's a bit hit-and-miss, because most of the antisudsing agents work well to suppress suds during the wash, but once the spin cycle kicks in, it may still oversuds. And the HE versions do work well.

But it's another alternative for you if you do hate the scents they have.

Supermarkets around here carry at the very least the Rug Doctor anti-sudsing agent, for use in carpet shampooing machines (in the solution recovery tank).

Cheers,
   -- Paulo.


Post# 932869 , Reply# 6   4/17/2017 at 05:01 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
No longer bother with non-HE detergents for my Miele or AEG

launderess's profile picture
Especially some of the vintage things in my stash. Found they simply created too much forth and or were difficult to rinse. Simply use such things for washing in tubs or (when I get it up and running) the Maytag wringer.

It is so amazing when using European detergents even the vintage Persil 59 in my stash how clean rinsing they are; by the second or third rinse waters are clear. The gel and liquids can leave a bit of froth in final rinse water, but that is the surfactants for you then.






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