Thread Number: 70655  /  Tag: Refrigerators
1951 GE Fridge repair
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Post# 936147   5/3/2017 at 22:26 (2,546 days old) by TheFridgeKid (McKinney, Texas)        

Hi, i'm new here. i recently purchased a 1951 GE fridge for 133$ at auction. it needs to be rewired and repainted.how easy is rewiring one of these? i have some experience with wiring, can i do it myself? they had it plugged in at the auction house and it worked, but the cord is really rough. Also, its cooled with sulphur dioxide (scary lol) thanks - alex (pictures coming today or tomorrow)




Post# 936277 , Reply# 1   5/4/2017 at 13:18 (2,545 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)        

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I rewired a 1940 Gibson that I have. It was pretty easy, only thing I remember that wasn't straight forward, was the light switch. It seems that the wires were an integral part of the switch so I ended up splicing the new wire to a section of wire still attached to the switch.


Post# 936280 , Reply# 2   5/4/2017 at 13:26 (2,545 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

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Does the tag actually state that the refrigerant used is SO2?  1951 seems late for a GE to still be using that stuff.


Post# 936297 , Reply# 3   5/4/2017 at 14:47 (2,545 days old) by TheFridgeKid (McKinney, Texas)        
goatfarmer

Good to know, hope mine is that easy

Post# 936306 , Reply# 4   5/4/2017 at 15:32 (2,545 days old) by TheFridgeKid (McKinney, Texas)        
rp2813

yes it does, i'll take pictures soon. i'm not 100% sure that the fridge is from 1951 but that's what the tag seems to say

Post# 936323 , Reply# 5   5/4/2017 at 16:34 (2,545 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)        

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I was thinking the same thing, SO2 should have been gone by 51.


Post# 936325 , Reply# 6   5/4/2017 at 16:40 (2,545 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Maybe it's a '41 and not a '51.


Post# 936334 , Reply# 7   5/4/2017 at 17:16 (2,545 days old) by fridgenut (Cape Girardeau, MO)        
Welcome to the forum!

The other members are right. SO2 was phased out after WW2 by GE. Their latest model that I know of that used SO2 was made in 42. It's not that scary. They have been sealed up for almost 90 years in some cases. As long as you take care of them they won't gas you out. If you could tell me what model number it is and give us a few pictures it would greatly help. I've rewired several GE models pre and post war along with numerous other types. I can direct you to one of two guides that I've made on a refrigerator forum that I'm an admin on. Let me know if you have any other questions about it. I love this stuff!
And you will like it here. Good and helpful community this lot is.


Post# 936441 , Reply# 8   5/5/2017 at 00:13 (2,545 days old) by TheFridgeKid (McKinney, Texas)        
fridgenut

thank you so much for your help. my phone broke couple of hours ago (typing this on a laptop) so i cant get pictures of it until my sister takes pictures and sends them to me through e mail. the type number is BH7-41B. i just checked and its definetely sulphur dioxide. i have found pictures from the auction house though, here they are. tylergraceauctions.hibid.com/lot/...

Post# 936483 , Reply# 9   5/5/2017 at 08:16 (2,544 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

Nice fridge!    Am I imagining it, or is than an AC outlet in the upper left corner of the cabinet?  

 

Wonder if that might have been for some kind of 'defrost' heater accessory....  Then again, I have a wild imagination!    I have some older Canadian literature that covers GE fridges of this era - I'll be doing some digging on the weekend.  

 


Post# 936486 , Reply# 10   5/5/2017 at 08:49 (2,544 days old) by fridgenut (Cape Girardeau, MO)        
Fridge Kid

Yes, just as I thought. Your model came from 1941. The styling and the presence of a butter conditioner outlet confirms this. The butter conditioner was released around that time. This would have been about Top of the Line for 41 and for this size. Very lovely styling on these late flat top models. The imperial logo is fantastic. Looks like it is missing the bottom crisper drawers and the butter conditioner and tiny shelf up top (the tiny shelf is always gone). See if you can find that butter conditioner, it makes the fridge. It looks like the picture below.

Fun fact, the compressor, float valve, and to some extent the evaporator in this fridge come directly from the glorious CK monitor top refrigerator. If you are not familiar with this refrigerator, look at the picture of the unit with the weird circular thing on top below. Extremely reliable units, I have 2 flat tops similar to yours but with less features and styling and a CK. They all work flawlessly. Rewiring this fridge will take a little skill but it will be the easiest as far as accessibility is concerned. I've rewired two of these old flat tops and they were a pleasure to work on. Here is a guide that I made a while back: monitortop.freeforums.net/thread/...

Good luck with it and let me know if you have any questions. One thing that you will have to decide is whether you want to keep the original start relay or replace it with a solid state unit. If the fridge is working fine and you don't hear a "pop" when it starts up that sounds like an electrical spark, you should be ok to leave the original relay in there.

Oh, almost forgot. I believe that the control panel that has the numbers for selecting how cold the fridge gets has a backlight on this model. When you pull out the thermostat to put a new wire to it you will see if it has three wires or two wires. If it has three wires going to it, it has a light bulb inside that should light up when you open the door. I've never wired one of those but it should be straight forward. The light bulb on yours is probably burnt out.


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Post# 936562 , Reply# 11   5/5/2017 at 14:35 (2,544 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)        

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I think I have the same 'fridge in storage. It took me and 2 other guys to get it out of a basement, on one of the hottest days several years ago. I never plugged it in, the cord is bad. I'll have to go out there and look.


Post# 936568 , Reply# 12   5/5/2017 at 14:44 (2,544 days old) by fridgenut (Cape Girardeau, MO)        
Goatfarmer

Now that you have my handy guide you can go and rewire it lol! Honestly though these machines are straight forward enough that any semi - competent person can rewire them. You will need a soldering iron for the compressor terminals though. The hotter the better, at least a 40 watt iron.

And yes, they are thick. I don't doubt that it took 3 guys to get it out of a basement.


Post# 937010 , Reply# 13   5/7/2017 at 19:33 (2,542 days old) by TheFridgeKid (McKinney, Texas)        
thefridgenut

great! sorry that it took me a while to reply. busy weekend. it seems pretty easy to rewire, it hasnt been grounded. should i ground it? and yes, it has the light bulb. do you think 133$ is a decent price? thank you for your help. also, my sister sent these pictures:

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Post# 937013 , Reply# 14   5/7/2017 at 20:01 (2,542 days old) by speedqueen (Metro-Detroit)        

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No need to ground it but also no reason not to! Just take the third wire of the new cord and loosen some nut or screw somewhere and put the bare wire under it and tighten it down.

Post# 937030 , Reply# 15   5/7/2017 at 21:36 (2,542 days old) by fridgenut (Cape Girardeau, MO)        
Question about grounding...

Just like speed queen said, you can ground it but there is really no need to. All grounding does is prevent the whole thing from becoming live. As long as it is wired properly that will never happen. Very rarely do these compressors become grounded to the case. It looks very nice. You should be proud to own such a machine.

Post# 937040 , Reply# 16   5/7/2017 at 23:00 (2,542 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
I would definitely ground it.

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Should something fail and the unit is not grounded, it might lead to damage to very hard to replace components.

If something fails and the unit is grounded, there's a very good chance it will blow a fuse/circuit breaker before anything irreplaceable is damaged.

Just my two cents, for what they're worth.

 


Post# 937044 , Reply# 17   5/7/2017 at 23:19 (2,542 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Hmmm,

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Isn't one of the reasons for the longevity of these systems that no oil was required? SO2 is a very good lubricant for carbon steel. Not so good for copper/brass if memory serves.

It's non-flammable (like water, it's a product of combustion) but yikes! The leak might not necessarily kill you (unless you've got asthma or other problems) but, yikes again - hard to think of anything which smells worse.

If one had to, R-12 is a one-to-one replacement from what I've read.

And, yes, dahlinks, we all know R-12 is 'off the market'. Sure it is.


Post# 937105 , Reply# 18   5/8/2017 at 12:04 (2,541 days old) by Travis ()        

R12 isn't an acceptable replacement for SO2.

It won't cool, it's too dense.

If the compressor grounds out, it's dead regardless of the unit being grounded.


Post# 937114 , Reply# 19   5/8/2017 at 13:11 (2,541 days old) by fridgenut (Cape Girardeau, MO)        
Questions about grounding...

The safest way to go about grounding an appliance is to ground it and plug it into a GFCI outlet. That way if the case ever were to become live the circuit would be cut off immediately, even for a small leak. I personally don't think there is much of a risk in leaving these appliances ungrounded but it is always good to be safe. Just don't do what one person on the fridge forum did and drill a hole through the condenser plate to ground it. That will release the dragons breath.

Speaking of SO2 systems, they do have oil in them. Plain old mineral oil just like R12 uses. In fact, this particular style of compressor has an automotive style oil pump which puts out 2 quarts of oil per minute! I believe the capacity of the sump is about 2 quarts as well. Lots of oil and lots of oil movement along with a very robust and balanced design are the keys to the longevity of these compressors.
Travis is right, R12 won't work. It is too dense and will put too much of a strain on the compressor. Some of these units were modified by GE to use R12 by destroking the piston travel to lessen the burden. That is where the confusion comes in. R152a which is commonly found in some brands of air duster seems to work great as a replacement. One of the forum members has had good luck with it.


Post# 937141 , Reply# 20   5/8/2017 at 16:28 (2,541 days old) by TheFridgeKid (McKinney, Texas)        
fridgenut

ok, this sounds pretty staightforward. what should i do about repainting it, i want to keep it as original as possible. i hear people say that they originally had porcelain finishes? where can i get mine a porcelain finish? is it expensive to repaint? thank you so much for your help

Post# 937159 , Reply# 21   5/8/2017 at 17:36 (2,541 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)        

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I doubt that one has a porcelain finish on the outside. I've painted quite a few with RustOLeum, thinned with acetone, and using a spray gun, and compressor.


Post# 937181 , Reply# 22   5/8/2017 at 18:06 (2,541 days old) by Travis ()        

Refrigerators came with either a porcelain finish or painted.  You don't get a porcelain finish unless you dismantle the whole fridge and have someone porcelain it.

 

It's cost prohibitive, so don't even ask.  Have a nice automotive paint put on and be happy.


Post# 937197 , Reply# 23   5/8/2017 at 19:47 (2,541 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Several notes

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Travis, I bow to your wisdom. Strange, though - why use oil when you have this wonderful lubricant as a refrigerant? Well, can't argue with the longevity of these refrigerators!

Some Frigidaire refrigerators were porcelain inside and out. Super heavy and super expensive.

I'd follow everyone's advice and just use a high-quality finish, after proper prep.


Post# 937199 , Reply# 24   5/8/2017 at 19:58 (2,541 days old) by Travis ()        

SO2 isn't a wonderful refrigerant as far as I know.

 

If it was, I would not have encountered many stalled DR series monitor tops that are filled with that noxious gas.  In fact, the oil conditioner in a DR machine is there to boil the so2 out of the mineral oil.


Post# 937217 , Reply# 25   5/8/2017 at 22:35 (2,541 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Diffently Ground It

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And if you do there is NO reason to use a GFI breaker, However if you do not want to ground it then differently use a GFI to protect you and anyone else that might ever touch the refrigerator.

 

Grounding an appliance does not protect appliance components from damage if a short occurs, we ground appliances to protect us from being electrocuted.


Post# 937307 , Reply# 26   5/9/2017 at 09:03 (2,540 days old) by fridgenut (Cape Girardeau, MO)        
Problems with SO2

The reason why Travis said that he has encountered many stalled DRs (the earliest widely available monitor top) is due to problems with SO2 if you don't prepare the system properly. It is a really dirty refrigerant. Over time it can create hard black gunk which gums up parts. I've had later model flat tops even succumb to parts getting crud in them but you can almost always coax them back. The DRs aren't so easy. My DR1 from 31 had a restricted float valve, a common problem for that series. I was able to loosen the crud by putting a heat gun on the line. Fortunately refrigerant started to flow. Not all owners are this lucky. Usually once you get them going they stay well unless you let them sit for years. Another issue is that any tiny amount of moisture in the system will form harmful acids when it reacts with the SO2. They just didn't have anything better at first to use and later on GE didn't want to pay Frigidaire to use R12. Eventually they gave in at the mid 40s though.

Post# 937310 , Reply# 27   5/9/2017 at 09:16 (2,540 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
There's no question

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That R12 was an enormously better refrigerant that SO2 for multiple reasons.

Just - it's not 'dirty'. The problems arise, from what I've read, from the system having moisture in it (yes, that's quite an acid you get) or materials which are subject to damage by it (it dissolves copper and redeposits it, again, from what I've read).

But 'dirty'? Nah, just not ideal in some ways. In others, though - I'm not ready to say it's a bad refrigerant. Then again, I'm not convinced that Dichlorodifluoromethane in hermetically sealed systems was a bad idea. In cars, yes. In sealed home units? A solution could have been found.


Post# 937311 , Reply# 28   5/9/2017 at 09:18 (2,540 days old) by fridgenut (Cape Girardeau, MO)        
Oh, and to answer the fridge kid...

As the others have stated, yours is not porcelain, it is a painted cabinet. Porcelain doesn't yellow. If you want to go the cheap route I would use thinned rustoleum appliance epoxy and a sprayer as others have suggested. If you want a perfect finish you will have to pony up the money and take it to an auto body shop and have it coated in auto paint. If you want to go real cheap you can just use the rustoleum spray cans of their appliance epoxy. It will be far from perfect but will look better than it currently is. You just have to take your time and mask everything off and sand down the current paint.

Post# 937368 , Reply# 29   5/9/2017 at 14:10 (2,540 days old) by Travis ()        

Keven,

 

I think the reason so2 is considered a dirty refrigerant is that it wasn't as pure as those that followed.  It does tend to block the the orifice in the float after 80 something years with a hard black substance.

 

Of course, these units have cotton insulated motor windings that can shed a bit.  The strings that tie the windings together deteriorate and allow the windings to vibrate which may be why they abrade and fail.

 

The GE compressors use a glass-metal terminal that I have never had issues with.  The only times I have had a leak on them is due to human abuse of the lines leading to the evaporator or the evaporator itself.  On the other hand, the Westinghouse compressors use a rubber seal that gets hard and lets go.

 

After experiencing just 2 lbs of so2 in my house, I have become a tad bit more respectful of it.  I am not suggesting anyone be afraid, you just better be respectful of the lines.


Post# 937373 , Reply# 30   5/9/2017 at 14:44 (2,540 days old) by fridgenut (Cape Girardeau, MO)        
Keven

Don't get me wrong, I like SO2 powered fridges. They gurgle and spurt and make so many neat noises. If it wasn't for the fact that it smells horrible and can be corrosive as you mentioned it would be a fantastic refrigerant that would most likely still be in use since it is not a large greenhouse gas and isn't an ozone problem child. The compressors are nice and quiet because of the low head pressures too. Kind of like R12 vs. R134a, the old 12 units had less head pressure and therefore sounded much quieter. I think that you are on to something in saying that R12 could have been used for longer in sealed units since they rarely ever leak out compared to cars. I think that one forgotten CFC refrigerant that should have lasted longer was R114 which was exclusively used by Frigidaire. I've got two fridges that are equipped with it. They stopped using it by the 50s. When the fridge is under normal load in normal room temperature, the high side is right around 0 psi! Talk about low pressure! In fact, one of the units that I have that has this refrigerant started to leak oil around the electrical terminal of the meter miser rotary compressor. As Travis mentioned, Westinghouse had rubber seals for the terminals and Frigidaire, at least back then, was no different. The later meter misers switched to a much better metal glass seal. I was able to save the unit by stopping it in the nick of time and I only lost a little oil and barely any refrigerant. Try that on a modern system with high pressures even when the system is off! Because of the low, low pressures that R114 works at I was able to plug up the terminal with a special add on rubber seal kit and it hardly lost any oil or refrigerant. Normally after an episode like that you would loose everything and would have to fill it back up once it is plugged up. She purrs along just as quiet and efficient as ever, it only uses 110 watts for a 9 cubic foot fridge! People complain about the old fridges having these CFC refrigerants but they don't understand that they rarely leak out of a sealed system and when they do it is a tiny amount. Heck, you had to try to make this R114 leak out!

Fun fact, R114 is still used to this day in the Navy in their large centrifugal chillers. The reason? It works at about 0 psi on the high side as I mentioned so it rarely leaks out and if it is exposed to moisture it will rarely take in moisture laden air.



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