Thread Number: 70990  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Bosch Nexxt 700?
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Post# 939842   5/23/2017 at 07:28 by washingpowder (NYC)        

It's time to uprgate from my Electrolux EIFLS60, and it seems like very few machines fit my needs speaking of options and design.
The Electrolux is a brilliant washer, but it has a couple of flaws that make it somewhat complicated to use.

Example, warm water setting doesn't mix hot and cold before entering the drum-the machine fills with hot and then adds enough cold to make it warm. Meaning more delicate or dark clothing tumbles in hot, concentrated solution for the first 2 minutes.

Delicate cycle isn't all that delicate, wouldn't trust it with silk or woolens.

There's no way to only 'boost' the temperature with the heater - you either have a true profile wash or choose Sanitize.

It's rather finicky about spinning, and can take forever to balance a load.

This is where Bosch Nexxt seems to shine.
It has 3 delicate settings, including Hand Wash. It mixes warm water rather than alternate. It has the ability to 'boost' the temperature, and it seems to be a very well designed product.

Has anyone used those? There's limited information available why Bosch decided to ditch their full size models like Nexxt.





Post# 939847 , Reply# 1   5/23/2017 at 07:57 by henene4 (Germany)        

You mean a used Next, right? They had several buggs if I remeber correctly. But never looked much into them.

You could look into the new E-Lux lineup. Their mixing technology should avoid the hot-fill issue, and you could ask that new guy on YT to check the delicates cycle.







Post# 939890 , Reply# 2   5/23/2017 at 14:29 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Woollens & Silk

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Looking at pictures of your Electrolux EIFLS60, and 'henene4's' link...

Do American machines not have any cycles for "Woollens / Silk / Handwash"?

European ones do, and the "Wool" programme is even gentler than "Delicates".


Post# 939899 , Reply# 3   5/23/2017 at 16:08 by washingpowder (NYC)        

Henene, the Delicate is the same deal; was really excited about Elux rolling out the new machines but not much has really been changed.

Rolls, until FL became popular in the '90s, only premium top loaders offered anything more than Perm Press, Normal, Heavy Duty and 'Delicate'. I guess taking special care items to the cleaners was more of a thing.
Then Neptunes, Calypsos, Duets etc came and they featured fancy delicate cycles but slowly they were replaced by redundant nonsense that 'attracts': my Elux has Pet Beds, Stuffed Animals, Active Wear, etc etc but only one and pretty harsh Delicate. When washing sweater and such one would have to stop the machine and reset to drain, fill, rinse and spin manually, to avoid the cycle going through and damaging items. I'd live with it but the thing started to malfunction (beeping for no reason, not running the motor-unplugging would help but for how long?)

On my way to pick up a Nexxt 700 hoping it's in good condition. Saw videos of violent shaking but shocks for those are ridiculously cheap to replace.


Post# 939902 , Reply# 4   5/23/2017 at 16:21 by henene4 (Germany)        

Keep us posted, as far as I understand they had a simmilar life cycle as the Mieles had and are thus somewhat rare-ish.

Post# 939937 , Reply# 5   5/23/2017 at 20:00 by washingpowder (NYC)        

It's in, installed and humming a load of blankets. Perm press cycle, hot. (True hot on a Perm Press...!) Display said 'heating'!
Guess it takes temperature accuracy very seriously.

Very gently used, not a scratch! And Lord, it's whisper quiet. It's so funny now, since Elux boasted 'second floor guarantee' promising to run smooth anywhere - this Bosch warns about flooring and suggests only concrete is appropriate - while the spin is so quiet I wasn't aware it spun.

Looks slightly smaller, especially due to huge Archie paddles, but that can be a good thing. The Elux had issues turning over a small or buoyant load.

I'm happy. About to run a load of hand-washables.

Now, to sell the Elux..


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Post# 939950 , Reply# 6   5/23/2017 at 20:46 by cuffs054 (GA)        

How funny! Your Electro sounds just like my new Maytag TL. Same issues. Today I went and looked at the last of the SQ TL with mechanical timer and the new GE bol. I've put an ad in local paper for the Tags, can't wait to get something that fills up and maybe washes in hotter water.


Post# 939952 , Reply# 7   5/23/2017 at 20:49 by washingpowder (NYC)        

Well, how about a used Nexxt from Bosch then? *LOL*

Post# 939981 , Reply# 8   5/24/2017 at 00:26 by rp2813 (The Big Blue Bubble)        

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We considered a Nexxt set when we bought our last pair.  We went with Frigidaire/E-lux Affinities, but if I had it to over again, I'd get the Nexxt.  The Affinity doesn't pre-mix and will usually do the entire fill with plain "auto temp" cold water when set for warm, and I absolutely hate it for that.  Hate-it!

 

Keep posting your impressions!


Post# 940014 , Reply# 9   5/24/2017 at 07:45 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Bosch Nexxt Washers & dryers

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The washers were pretty good, the dryers were among the worst performing dryers I ever saw based on feed back from 1/2 dozen customers that had them. I saw three of these Bosch washers on the trash pile two weeks ago, and none of them looked like they faired well.

 

Bosch discontinued full sized machines quite a few years ago, good luck getting parts or service for them now or in the near future, I would keep the FD as a backup.


Post# 940058 , Reply# 10   5/24/2017 at 15:53 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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IIRC there was something about Nexxt washers and premature bearing failure. Am not sure how widespread the issue was however.

Bosch also was dragged into court in a class action regarding "defective" designed washers due to mold and "foul odors". Again think the larger machines were part of this and BSH simply settled (eventually) while not admitting their product had any issues.

BSH never gave an official reason as to why the 27" washers and dryers were discontinued. Some point to early models having top mounted controls which prevented stacking causing low sales. Others blame competition from Asian manufacturers making it difficult for Bosch to sell units at a price they could make money on.

However one thing both Bosch and Miele had in common with their "uber" sized units; both are European manufacturers that designed and produced these large machines primarily for one market, North America. As such that is putting a lot of faith in terms of sales into one basket.

IIRC Bosch and or Miele may have sold their large 27" units in some European markets, but don't think the things caught on.

applianceadvisor.com/bosch-exit-f...


Post# 940059 , Reply# 11   5/24/2017 at 16:02 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Manual

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Post# 940064 , Reply# 12   5/24/2017 at 17:10 by logixx (Germany)        

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I've never seen the larger Miele laundry appliances outside of North America. Bosch did sell both the Logixx 10 (ten kilo capacity) washer and dryer in parts of Europe. The washer, I think, kept its weak American heater and became cold-fill only, while the dryer was limited to 3500 watts. Neither caught on - the dryer probably even less than the washer. Every washer that was wider then 24 inches suffered the same faith eventually. :-(

Post# 940070 , Reply# 13   5/24/2017 at 17:45 by henene4 (Germany)        

I think the Bosch had a standard 2kW heater (adapted for the 230V market), but as you with your Duet clone might know, Alex, that can make some longer heating times anyways.

The dryers were vented, and thus had a smaller market per se here in Germany.

I have read about bearing and even drum failures on those. Clothes being shredded, etc.


In Europe, after the first Bauknecht Big (early generation Duet clone) was launched, the Bosch came with 2 different versions of their uber size machine (first 9 then 10 kg), then 2 generations of Duet clones again, and now we have a LG 15kg 27" machine. With a puny 2kW heater and cold fill only.

Only the Bosch ever had a matching size dryer. What I would give for a 27" condenser\HP dryer!


Post# 940071 , Reply# 14   5/24/2017 at 17:48 by super32 (Blackstone Massachusetts)        
Currently

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We currently have a 10+ yr old original Platinum edition Nexxt. The platinum was basically the top of the line in a silver color. Its been running and has never missed a beat. The machine you have is a few years newer. Also from the looks of your controls, it looks like yours is pretty much the same as ours but a different color.


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This post was last edited 05/24/2017 at 18:04
Post# 940092 , Reply# 15   5/24/2017 at 20:10 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Yes, think you are correct

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Only Bosch tried to sell their uber sized washers and dryers in Europe. Miele didn't, and they still paid a heavy price. All that R&D went into those large washers and dryers, only to have Miele pull the plug after a few years.

Was actually looking forward to the Nexxt washers when first models were launched. But those machines did not have a separate "Rinse" or "Spin" cycles which for us was a deal breaker.

Whirlpool unlike Maytag did well with its first "jumbo" front loader because they did their homework. Having Bauknecht under the Whirlpool corporate wings gave them access to a wealth of information on how to build quality H-axis washing machines. Well at least those that didn't suffer the problems Maytag had with early Neptune washers.

IIRC early Duet large washers and dryers were built in Germany at Bauknecht factories: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bauknecht_...(company)


Post# 940129 , Reply# 16   5/24/2017 at 22:38 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        

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We found a pair of the 27" Miele washer and gas dryer on the optional pedestals even about a year ago. The washer had a broken spider after just 6 years of use. I probably should have tried to fix it , but just recycled them instead.

 

All Whirlpool Duet Dryers sold in the US were built in Marion Ohio.


Post# 940169 , Reply# 17   5/25/2017 at 05:37 by logixx (Germany)        

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Only the washers were made in Germany, the dryers were always made in America. I was an intern at the factory (the R&D department) while the production was running.

The factory was demolished a few years ago.


Post# 940173 , Reply# 18   5/25/2017 at 05:56 by logixx (Germany)        
Henrik

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I just looked and the heater is indeed 230V, 1300 Watts. :(

Post# 940177 , Reply# 19   5/25/2017 at 07:12 by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)        

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Yes, the heaters were indeed only 1300 Watts, even on this side of the pond. When I saw that I wondered how on earth you could do a 95*C wash in that thing. I bet it took ages!

Post# 940192 , Reply# 20   5/25/2017 at 09:01 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
1300 to maybe a bit above 1400 watts

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Is about the max that can be pulled from a 120v/15amp using the so called "80% rule", which IIRC only applies to continuous loads, but am sure someone will come along and correct.

Now you guys on the other side of pond understand also why those portable compact dryers by Hoover, Maytag, Whirlpool and others max out at about that wattage range. Have hair dryers that have more powerful heating elements (1650 watts).

IIRC Bosch's small/compact washer were and still are 208v/240v.

www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin...


Post# 940207 , Reply# 21   5/25/2017 at 10:55 by henene4 (Germany)        
1300W for the EU market

What the f? I mean, they had to adapt the heater to make it 1300W at 240V, so there is literally 0 reason not to make it 2kW...

Post# 940219 , Reply# 22   5/25/2017 at 12:50 by logixx (Germany)        
Bosch 10 kg

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Post# 940220 , Reply# 23   5/25/2017 at 12:54 by logixx (Germany)        
Bauknecht 11 kg

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Post# 940257 , Reply# 24   5/25/2017 at 20:17 by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Hi Henrik

The Neptune were the same here, I replaced the heater on mine and it was 1300 watts as well. It was hot and cold fill and if you forced it to cold fill only, the heater would time out before it reached the target temp.

The Neptune had a transformer on the bottom to make it 240v compatible, nothing else inside changed. Maybe the Bosch is the same.

Cheers

Nathan


Post# 940268 , Reply# 25   5/25/2017 at 21:21 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
"heater would time out before it reached the target temp

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Read somewhere, maybe a British consumer appliance testing group that many modern washers sold in UK at least do not reach set temperature of 60c.

www.which.co.uk/news/2013/08/wash...

My older Miele had what they called "cycle guarantee" or some such; meaning (IIRC) that one gets full washing time regardless of how long it takes to heat water. But that is not exactly true. Armed with 2600watts of heating power (at 208/240v) the timer gives a certain period of time for water to reach proper temperature. However since the thermostat is not run through timer there is no "hold". That is if the heating portion of cycle times out, timer will advance regardless.

This being said however the heater will still remain on until desired temp is reached. If that cuts into wash time, then so be it.

The Oko-Lavamat is an odd beast to one. It seems to have ten minutes allotted for heating portion of cycles. At least that is the amount of time washer will subtract from a cycle that finishes sooner than it should because water temperature was reached in less time the programmed. Being a cold fill machine this can and does happen if tap water even when set to "cold" is warm (such as during summer). Or when one cheats by setting taps to "warm" or even "hot" water.

For instance if wanting to do a boil wash after pre-soaking a badly soiled load, don't need the slow heating of the machine, and or energy use of taking in cold tap water. Especially during the winter months when the boilers are on full fire to make steam for heating as well as hot water.

Strangely enough my old 18" portable dishwasher (Kenmore brand, but WCI/Frigidaire) *did* hold the timer until thermostat would reach desired temp. Learned this when after starting a load and going off to take a nap. About nearly two hours later woke up and the DW was still washing. Turns out the boilers had switched off and thus there wasn't hot water. So machine had filled with tap cold water.....


Post# 940286 , Reply# 26   5/26/2017 at 00:12 by logixx (Germany)        
Not reaching 60°C

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That only applies to the one dedicated Eco cycle. Our consumer magazine measures the temp of both the Cotton cycle with and without Eco and most washers reach or exceed 60°C without Eco.

Post# 940341 , Reply# 27   5/26/2017 at 13:56 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
"Which?" and Leicester University

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As Launderess says, here is a link to University of Leicester:

A PDF type download, two pages.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Rolls_rapide's LINK


Post# 940368 , Reply# 28   5/26/2017 at 17:29 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Great read!

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And I thank you!

What one appreciates about our older Miele washer is that if thermostat senses temperature drops during cycle the heaters are switched on to bring it back. This will happen even if the cycle is nearly over.

Suppose some might consider this wasteful of energy, but if one selects 60c that that is what one wants for a wash. More so want it for more than just several minutes.

I mean what is the point of doing a hot or even boil wash if the temperature won't even reach much less remain at that level.


Post# 940389 , Reply# 29   5/26/2017 at 19:17 by logixx (Germany)        

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I was just looking at the last washer test by our consumer magazine from November 2016. They tested the Eco Cotton cycle verus the standard one and took temperature readings during the wash cycle (like they have been doing for a few years now).

Cotton Eco 60°C / Cotton standard 60°C

_Front loaders_
AEG 27 / 56
Beko 53/ 63
Grundig 54 / 63
Gorenje 49 / 69
Hanseatic 34 / 60

_Top loaders_
Bauknecht 40 / 60
Miele 49 / 58
Whirlpool 43 / 49
AEG 51 / 62

So most washers did heat to the selected temp, provided the proper cycle was chosen. For an extended temp hold, most washers offer Hygiene cycles that also use extra water. The Miele front loader with its steam heating system got the water underneath the drum boiling, but the laundry reached 60°C during both Cotton cycles. Bosch's front loader also heated the water to 60°C on the Eco cycle, but then added extra cold water (presumably to saturate the load) so that the remainder of the main wash was done in much cooler water. Their regular Cotton cycle heated to 63°C.


Post# 940390 , Reply# 30   5/26/2017 at 19:24 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
You're very welcome!

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When I was researching washing machines a few months ago, I came across the Which? article about washing machines not achieving temperature.

Speaking of temperatures, apparently my Panasonic's "Autocare/Econavi" sensor programme selects the temperature itself, between 30 deg C and 43 deg C. It seems to depend on the detergent sensed by the optics: powders seem to get the 43 deg C treatment; liquids less so.

I've been observing what the machine does on the sensor programme with different loads. A smallish load of polycotton sheets got the pretty standard "1h 18mins".

The next load, run immediately after the first, was a pair of jeans, Craghopper trousers, a few t-shirts, several pairs of underpants. And the load was calculated to take... 2hrs 45mins! (I just about fell through the floor...!)

Needless to say, I thought that a tad too long for such a small, relatively clean load, so I let it wash for about half an hour, then cancelled the programme and set it to the Cottons rinse & spin @1600 rpm. It must have been in perfect balance, because the jeans have never felt drier - I was most impressed.

Similarly, today I washed (on sensor prog again, with a crushed detergent tablet): a white bath towel, a hand towel, a white cotton t-shirt, and a couple of pairs of socks. The machine started at "1hr 18" then switched to "1hr 32". Near the end of the wash phase, I touched the door glass, and it definitely felt hotter than 40 deg C.

However, the interim spins did not take place, due to out-of-balance detection. Instead, simple 'fill-tumble-drain' rinses were done. The final spin was aborted umpteen times by the machine. Eventually, after twenty minutes of trying, it reset the spin programme itself, and span very noisily for a few seconds to get most of the water out. More tumbles, then FINALLY ramped to the sensor programme's maximum of 1400 rpm.

Spin cycles seems to take up to 30 minutes, if out of balance. Running the machine empty on the same programme, reveals that the spin timer hops and skips down quite rapidly: 11 mins turns out to be more like 8mins.

The joys of modern technology!





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