Thread Number: 71204  /  Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
My 'Lady' has betrayed me!!
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Post# 942436   6/8/2017 at 08:24 (186 days old) by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

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Specifically, its my '65 Lady Kenmore washer that is the daily driver in St-Lib... 

 

Here's what happened at the end of a normal wash cycle today:  the machine had drained and then went into spin.  I heard the washer start to vibrate as it usually does, then suddenly it went quiet.  I opened the lid to observe the spin (remembering to hold down the lid switch) but nothing happened.  I removed the 'equivalent to a GE Combo spun' clothes and tried to rock the tub by hand.  Nothing.  

 

However, I could make the washer agitate by carefully positioning the timer at the Forbidden Suds Return position of the dial.  Nice hack when you need to test agitation on these older Whirlpool/Inglis/Kenmore washers.

 

And it looked OK.

 








Post# 942438 , Reply# 1   6/8/2017 at 08:26 (186 days old) by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

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However, on further attempts to spin, nothing happens.  I can't tell if the spin solenoid kicked in or not, but oddly enough, the machine is trying to agitate.... 

 





Post# 942441 , Reply# 2   6/8/2017 at 08:34 (186 days old) by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        
Problem brainstorming....

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Now, as we all know I just LOVE to jump to conclusions about what the root cause of a problem is...  I am trying to step back on this one and take careful note of the symptoms:

 

- Not spinning (DUH...LOL)

- Tub cannot be easily turned by hand

- No odd smells or signs of burning belt that might point to a locked transmission

 

Further observation:

- After an attempted to spin, a gurgling sound can be heard in the tub and some water seems bubble up from the tub bottom.

 

So, I have a couple of potential causes, but I wanted to run them by the experts here...  

- Belt (I am pretty sure I replaced it when I overhauled the machine).  Can a WP drive belt slip?

- Bad spin solenoid on the wig-wag (Or perhaps just a bad connection)

- Spin shaft lock up or bearing problem (however, bearings were redone back in 2013

- A pump issue - I am not sure if a locked/stalled/clogged pump could impact on the machine kicking into spin but I'm not going to dismiss it

 

I'm not sure I'll be able to take the Lady apart today.  Any thoughts or suggestions are always welcome - I love this machine and I just HAVE to have a turquoise set in St-Lib (yes, I have the '59 Frigidaires, but I think I'd kill that washer PDQ under frequent use!)


Post# 942443 , Reply# 3   6/8/2017 at 08:50 (186 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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The wigwag?

Post# 942445 , Reply# 4   6/8/2017 at 08:59 (186 days old) by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

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Thanks Bob!  It could be a cam bar that has slipped, given that the machine was shaking.  

 

I am rearranging my errands today to get the groceries done now so that I can tinker with the Lady later today.  Retirement rocks... LOL

 


Post# 942468 , Reply# 5   6/8/2017 at 11:23 (186 days old) by RevvinKevin (Between Mickey Mouse & the Queen Mary (So. Cal.)        
Solenoid or plunger-thingy

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Paul, this issue happened on a friends WP belt drive a some years back.  Both wigwag solenoids worked fine, but the plunger-thingy for the spin solenoid (on the left) was bent/broken.  In his case it would engage the spin, but not disengage it.

 

I hope this helps.

Kevin





Post# 942470 , Reply# 6   6/8/2017 at 11:31 (186 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
maybe you should put as a temp replacement?

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hello turqoise dude maybe until you have time to fix repair your turquoise lady kenmore washer you should put as a temp replacement your inglis washer pictured here in an exemple or your whilrpool washer this way it would give you time to do a good maitnance tune up on your lady kenmore washer as well just a suggestion here

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Post# 942484 , Reply# 7   6/8/2017 at 13:30 (186 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
HI, PAUL

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Pop the hood and see if the lid switch has come undone. That was the issue with my 65 which I love more than my luggage as Launderess would say, and which I own all because of your inspiration. Dead without it, I feel your pain.


Upon delivery, she wowld not spin, and then when I popped the hood and saw that lid switch was loose and laying the wrong way, I made it so that the machine would spin with the lid open, as I am a lid free guy.

Hope that is the case with your baby--all that regular shaking on spin you mentioned gave me the idea. Good luck, good friend--and SOON!


Post# 942506 , Reply# 8   6/8/2017 at 16:18 (186 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Paul, better not let hubby catch you molesting a Lady up her skirt!!


Post# 942507 , Reply# 9   6/8/2017 at 16:28 (186 days old) by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        
Thank you for the input, everyone!

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I started with the lid switch, but also checked timer connections, then observed the solenoids as the machine was in agitate and spin modes.  It turns out the cam bar is not engaging to spin, possibly because the cam bar lever is no longer firmly attached to the solenoid plunger.   However, I'm not going to be doing any further work on this until Monday.  I'd like to pull the washer out of the darned bathroom to have a wee bit more room to work with it, too. 

 

And Pierre André has proved the point I've been trying to make with Hubby.... We NEED a spare washer and dryer set in St-Lib!  The Inglis set would be good candidates, as would the '56 Whirlpool Imperials, for sure!!

 

Darn, I'll have to haul some laundry to Ogden to do on the weekend... The '51 GE has been getting lonely since the Speed Queen arrived, so... LOL 

 


Post# 942572 , Reply# 10   6/8/2017 at 22:28 (186 days old) by barcoboy (Canada)        

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There might be multiple problems here. If the spin cam bar is not moving at all, it could be a problem with the solenoid itself or it is not getting power due to a broken wire or something other reason. But the machine shouldn't be trying to agitate at this point... it should be in neutral... so either the agitate cam bar is not fully moving to the neutral position, or there might be a transmission problem. Unless that is normal behavior for a '65 transmission when in neutral with no resistance on the agitator.

If you're able, shoot a video of the wig-wag when the machine is trying to shift into both agitate and spin.

And if you want, you can always bring the machine down the road to me in Waterville! :-)


Post# 942596 , Reply# 11   6/9/2017 at 01:48 (185 days old) by Combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Tub hard to turn, agitator trying to spin

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It sounds like you either got something stuck between the tubs or the tub bearings are locking up.

Call me after you really get a look at it if you can't figure it out, I'm hiding out in London at the moment.


Post# 942627 , Reply# 12   6/9/2017 at 08:46 (185 days old) by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

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barcoboy:  the machine, unfortunately, is at the other house in St-Liboire...  A total pain because it's in the bathroom, too

 

I'll be pulling the Lady out of the bathroom next week (possibly into the guest bedroom, temporarily) so I'll have more room to work.  I'm also going to examine the Whirlpool and Inglis machines down in Ogden to see how the cam bars behave on working machines.  And I'll go digging in the parts store there - I have at least 1 complete Whirlpool belt drive transmission plus a couple of wig wags.  I'm going to try some more tests on the solenoids on the Lady K next week - still hoping it's not a bearing issue...

 

John, I'll definitely post about what I find - I'll wait until you are back from London to bug you.... (Say hi to Al for me, if you see him!!).  I happen to have a spare bearing kit but I don't have the extractor/installation tool.  I should be able to borrow one from a fellow in Stanstead, though. 

 

What is throwing me at the moment is that the washer sounds like it is kicking into spin normally and then there is no other noise (no shrieks, groans, squeaks, wails, or other 'complaints').    My thought for the day is 'could the spin shaft have snapped or separated'....

 

Oh and guess who is NOT impressed with the current situation and whose first pronouncement on the matter was "We're getting a new washer"....  No points if you guessed Canyon.   

 

Now I am wondering if perhaps I shouldn't be hauling another washer back from Ogden next week...  The Blackstone got exiled into the garage, so.... LOL 

 


Post# 942710 , Reply# 13   6/9/2017 at 18:35 (185 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

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Oh you poor Dear... So many choices... LOL

Love you sweetie. What about the ABC ???


Post# 942725 , Reply# 14   6/9/2017 at 19:23 (185 days old) by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

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Yes! That ABC needs to be shown off,Eddie!

 

OK, so I checked the 66 Inglis, the 56 Whirlpool and even the 51 Kenmore and with all three, I can turn the tub quite easily by hand.  Something very bad seems to have happened to m'Lady...  

 

Think I should bring my tub wrench back to St-Lib??


Post# 942852 , Reply# 15   6/10/2017 at 11:08 (184 days old) by bendixmark (Winchester Mass)        
Spin

Hey Paul,i love that washer ,one of my favorites.Check for voltage to the solenoid by reversing the red and yellow wires on the wigwag.if you place the machine in spin and it now agitates instead you know you have voltage to solenoid.Next put the wires back and check to see if the red wire has a break in it by pulling on it.Next check to see if the rivet in the spin cambar follower is broken.Next check to see if the solenoid is engaging into spin and should pull out forward toward the back of the machine.When this happens the brake drum with the springs on it should drop down one eighteenth of an inch from the baseplate bottom and the basket should turn freely by hand.Dont know which lidswitch you have but if it is the mercury one lift the hood up and try it then.If the solenoid engages and the cambar is pulling out something is binding.hope this helps,Mark

Post# 943066 , Reply# 16   6/11/2017 at 18:46 (183 days old) by potatochips (Nova Scotia)        

In a weird way I'm glad this happened to you as the SAME thing has happened to me too. I finally have time to fix it now! I'll text you Paul and hopefully we can find a fix in short order.

Post# 943193 , Reply# 17   6/12/2017 at 15:27 (182 days old) by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        
Trial by Kenmore - Day 4

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So on the weekend, I probably should have pulled out one of my other Whirlpool-type machines to observe exactly what happens when spin kicks in, but I contented myself with messing around with the transmission from the '67 Whirlpool that was the parts donor for much of the Inglis restoration.   I observed what should happen during a spin by simply holding the spin solenoid plunger up so that the cam bar guide would 'hook' onto the spin cam bar.  I observed the cam bar would pull back and hook into the basket shaft and the drive disc started to turn.  

 

Today when I got back to St-Lib, I redid tests on the lid switch and the solenoids for both agitate and spin - all tested OK.  I tried to manually lift the spin cam bar guide up to see if I could engage a simulated spin as I rotated the drive pulley, I got the spin cam bar to move forward however I noticed that it was very difficult to turn the pulley (and I do admit I am a wealking; a 7-year old could probably turn it, but I couldn't) I tried to keep the cam bar guide up until I got the cam bar to move back.  Once this happened, I noticed the drive pulley was much easier to turn.  

 

I can only think that there is something binding or sticking with the basket drive or perhaps the tub is stuck or jammed somehow.   

 

John L, please let me know when you get back from London.  I don't want to bother you while you are getting over jet lag!!   My gut feeling is telling me to try taking the tub out.  I'll likely have to do that if the transmission needs work anyway...  

 

In the meantime, ssshh, don't tell Hubby but I think I will be getting a 'newer' washer as a backup. I have 1, perhaps 18 opportunities and I think I should act on them... LOL 


Post# 943206 , Reply# 18   6/12/2017 at 16:19 (182 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
wonder whitch washer you will be sneeking in lol

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i wonder what washers you will be sneeking in lol

Post# 943452 , Reply# 19   6/14/2017 at 15:49 (180 days old) by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        
So much for plan 'B'....

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More like 'Plan 9 From Outer Space'  LOL 

So, not to deviate too much from topic, I had the chance to nab this Frigidaire 1-18 from Phil so I grabbed it.  It will need some work too...  but this will be a whole new adventure with corresponding thread...

In the meantime, I am thinking that I should probably try releasing the Lady K tub nut and perhaps drop out the transmission. I am still dithering a bit however...

 


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Post# 943494 , Reply# 20   6/14/2017 at 20:19 (180 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

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Did you remove the front panel from the 1-18?

Now that we know the 1-18 is a leaker...

Let me know how your new Liberator dishwasher performs (with a name like that name, it should feel at home in St-Lib!).

I did test this one and it didn't leak! But it didn't do much to clean my dishes and I had a hard time loading the lower rack properly.

Maybe I just couldn't figure how to load it correctly... I am not too experienced with impeller dishwashers!





Post# 943614 , Reply# 21   6/15/2017 at 15:15 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

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So, back to Dr. Frankenstein's bathroom in St-Lib....

 

I had a good whine to John Lefever today and he suggested I should remove the tub cover at least to see if anything had gotten jammed in there.  I was convinced I'd wind up removing the tub too... 


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Post# 943615 , Reply# 22   6/15/2017 at 15:23 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

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I'll be jiggered.... I got the Lady to spin again!!

 




 

So while this is wonderful news, I can't help but ask myself "Why?".  It seems odd that a machine would just stop spinning in the midst of the final rinse spin, then I thought of something...  John had said it was pretty unlikely that an article of clothing could get between the tubs (actually that must be near impossible with a Whirlpool-designed washer from what I could see); I can't help but wonder if the culprit might be dog hair...  That overgrowed pup of ours sheds like the Abominbal Snowman in Fort Lauderdale and our clothes are always well-coated.  Never mind what Canyon's blankets are like when I toss them into the Lady for a refresh.  

Is it possible that there was a dog hair clog??  I've seen dishwasher pump impellers get clogged with human hair (don't want to imagine the "How?"...)   Could the dog hair residue from the wash/rinse water have caused this problem?? 

 

In the meantime, I'm reassembling the Lady and will try a full tub drain and spin.  

 


Post# 943623 , Reply# 23   6/15/2017 at 16:18 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

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I was anxious to try a water test...  It's all good!   Hmmm, I may be getting good at this repair stuff...  One week and I didn't start any fires OR cause any power outages... LOL 

 





Post# 943641 , Reply# 24   6/15/2017 at 19:39 by wiskybill (Canton, Ohio)        
No worries Paul...

the lights only flickered a little here.

I knew you must be OK!

Bill



Post# 943647 , Reply# 25   6/15/2017 at 21:01 by chaskelljr2 (Washington, D. C.)        
And She Spins Again....

Looks like someone's got their 1965 Lady back.
Congratulations on the repair.
What was causing it not to spin if you don't mind me asking?

--Charles--


Post# 943673 , Reply# 26   6/15/2017 at 22:46 by barcoboy (Canada)        

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...but why is it still trying to agitate in neutral? Even at full speed spin, if you look at the blur of the bottom fins of the agitator in the last video, you can see them "moving" back and forth slightly, which means the spin speed of the agitator is not staying constant, but varying slightly.

Is this normal for this vintage of machine? I've never seen other videos where this happens, except for one video where the tub was spinning while the machine was agitating half full of water, right after the guy had changed the drive belt (assuming it was due to incorrectly re-installing/re-aligning the transmission).


Post# 943704 , Reply# 27   6/16/2017 at 05:25 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Slight Agitation During Neutral Drain And Spin

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This can be considered completely normal, remember the agitator gear is always turning back and forth on the agitator shaft when ever the motor is running.

 

Some machines do it more than others, but I have seen brand new washers do this and ones that are nearly worn out.

 

John L.


Post# 943709 , Reply# 28   6/16/2017 at 06:32 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        
Simultaneous agitate & spin

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barcoboy - the Lady Kenmore has always seemed to have some agitator movement while spinning - come to think of it the Inglis and the '51 Kenmore agitators 'twitch' a little while draining.  I'll now have to hook the '56 Whirlpool up again to see what it does... LOL 

 

Charles - I still am not sure why the tub froze up on me.  My gut feeling is telling me that I may need to redo the bearings...  I'll keep an eye on it for sure. 

 

John, could the grease in the bearings have dried up on me?? 


Post# 943727 , Reply# 29   6/16/2017 at 08:27 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        
Yay!

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Small-load wash test this morning was a success.  What exactly happened last week is still a mystery; not sure if I am happy or not about no longer needing to haul laundry down to Ogden. Life is tough...


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Post# 952307 , Reply# 30   8/9/2017 at 09:46 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        
Well now....

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So The Lovely Lady of St-Liboire has been running normally for nearly 2 months since the June spin hissy fit but today, after washing a bedspread, the poor dear went out of balance on the rinse spin, then as the spin came to an end, locked up on me again.   

 

I'm puzzled as to what did this a second time.  I have a gut feeling the tub brake is 'sticking' somehow; I am not ruling out bearings but darn it, I redid them just 5 years ago (unless I did a really, really bad job of it...).  

 

Is there something I am missing or overlooking??  Should I start picking a replacement washer for St-Lib??  LOL

(There is a rebuilt '56 Whirlpool washer with matching dryer that is currently sitting idle in Ogden...) 


Post# 952317 , Reply# 31   8/9/2017 at 11:34 by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

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Go for the '56 set.

Then take your time a figure out what is wrong with the '65.

I always loved that console and style.


Post# 952354 , Reply# 32   8/9/2017 at 15:49 by Maytag85 (25 miles from Idywild, 25 miles from Temecula. )        
Awsome Terquiose Kenmore!

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I love vintage appliances! They simply last forever, and are simple, compared to the appliances of today! I have a Lady Kenmore Portable Washer and Dryer I bought earlier this summer for $45.00 of of Craigslist. I did not spin or agitate when I tested it out, had a bad transmission? No. All I had to do was to add oil, and it began to agitate and spin again. One day I did a load of laundry in the Lady Kenmore Portable, and it still had water in the tub, and I was confused. Turns out the water pump went out The plastic pulley that screws in the water pump spindle stripped, and was free-spinning on the water pump spindle. I got a new water pump for the Lady Kenmore Portable, and installed it, but when I did a load of laundry in it, it began to leak water from the side of the tub, and the air dome is cracked:(, but at least it is fixable. I also need a new timer motor for the dryer, you can turn on the dryer, but you have remember to turn it off.

Post# 952371 , Reply# 33   8/9/2017 at 17:40 by rpms (ontario canada)        

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Why don't you use the Dominion?


Post# 952373 , Reply# 34   8/9/2017 at 17:55 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

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Trouble is, the Lady is at the house in St-Lib where I have an 'appliance restraining order' from having more than 1 washer and dryer.  That will change... I am already in violation with a 1-18 that needs some TLC in the garage, so a couple more won't matter, right?  LOL 


Post# 954369 , Reply# 35   8/24/2017 at 15:07 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        
Lady Kenmore is still in the operating theatre....

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In other words, I have taken over the upstairs guest bedroom in St-Lib to work on the non-spinning Lady Kenmore washer (no visitors until further notice, please)....

 

OK, so I was stumped by how this washer spun again for a short time, then quit.  Unlike last time, I was unable to somehow trip the brake mechanism to get the tub to spin again.  My theories were a badly damaged or broken plunger on the spin cam bar, a stuck or damaged basket drive, or...a bad transmission.  

 

I figured I had to drop the transmission out in all cases, so I managed to move the Lady K from the bathroom into the bedroom and take her apart.   This took me two days... I managed to hurt myself really badly tipping the machine on Tuesday.  I need an assistant, daggnabit... LOL 

 

The good news is that the transmission seems OK and I was able to make the spin cam bar plunger engage as it is supposed to.  

 

However....


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Post# 954371 , Reply# 36   8/24/2017 at 15:13 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

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When I pulled out the transmission, the basket drive mechanism remained very convincingly in place...  

 

Further, I could not budge that basket drive pulley.  My guess is that when I did the re-bearing job, I did not seal or grease something properly and the subsequent abuse caused the basket drive tube to seize.  I repeatedly kept saying a word that rhymes with 'duck' this afternoon.  A lot...  

 

I'll probably wind up replacing the basket drive tube (and I am guessing I'll need to redo the bearings...) but in the meantime, I am drawing a blank as to how remove the drive tube.  I recall that Robert's '57 Lady K transmission had to be pounded out, taking drive tube and bearings with it, but I am wondering if this tube could somehow be salvaged if I can drive out carefully. 

 

Any thoughts or suggestions? 


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Post# 954379 , Reply# 37   8/24/2017 at 16:55 by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Hey Paul - hope you are having a great summer besides this!

Mine was really stuck too when I replaced the bearings. What I ended up doing was removing the tranny from the basket drive and standing the machine upright. Then I got a socket the size of the spin tube and banged it out with a hammer. It didn't want to budge at all but finally gave in and to my surprise the bearings came out with it. Needless to say the spin tube was toast.

At the time, Gordon mentioned that twisting it out while you pull usually works but my spin tube was so rusted and fused to the bearings I'm not sure it would have budged. But yours should be in better shape so I would try that.

When you replaced the bearings 5 years ago did you fill the upper chamber with turbine oil before you put the top seal in place?


CLICK HERE TO GO TO 114jwh's LINK


Post# 954380 , Reply# 38   8/24/2017 at 17:08 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

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I thought I put in 'enough' oil, but I'm going to guess I didn't...  I'll be letting the spin tube marinate in PB Blaster as soon as I can get some more, then I'll try Gordon's twist and pull technique.  

 

The good news is I found a new bearing kit among my parts hoard in Ogden - like anyone will be surprised at that...  

 

SO, who thinks I should bring the Blackstone to St-Lib as my 'backup' washer?  LOL 


Post# 954384 , Reply# 39   8/24/2017 at 17:22 by potatochips (Nova Scotia)        

That time I texted you with the same issue back in May, twisting while pulling the basket drive out worked. I don't know why the spin tube would seize as I filled all areas with the correct oil as per the shop manuals recommendation!?

Post# 954387 , Reply# 40   8/24/2017 at 17:24 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

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I think I messed up on the oil...  I know I was way more attentive when I did the Inglis! 


Post# 956301 , Reply# 41   9/5/2017 at 16:56 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        
An update on m'Lady's condition....

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Last Thursday, before I vanished down to Ogden for the long weekend, Phil came over to visit.  With his help, we got the danged basket drive tube out of the Lady Kenmore washer.     Getting old and weak sucks - I am grateful to have a friend like Phil!! 


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Post# 956303 , Reply# 42   9/5/2017 at 17:07 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

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The good news - we didn't pound the bearings out along with the drive tube.  

 

Having a fresh pair of eyes helped here - Phil noted the scarring on the upper section of the tube.  

 

I did not document the re-bearing process of this washer when I did it, so I cannot be sure that the tube was not already scarred or discoloured when I re-installed it.  

 

But what really caught Phil's eye was the 'ring o rust' on the center post.  Funnily enough, it looks like it is about the same height as the discolouration on the basket drive tube...   I am going to guess that this is where the sticking occured causing the lack of spin.  However, I recall that the Inglis tube had a dark spot on it at about the same height.

 

So, I have to wonder why this happened.   Is it possible there is some sort of a leak in the center post that got into the bearing and the drive tube?     I'm going to give it a good cleaning tomorrow and I have some POR15 if needed.  

 

Now the $64,000 question - is the bearing still OK?  I will guess that I did not lubricate it properly...  Also, I am thinking I should replace the basket drive tube - or can I just clean up the old one?  

 

At least I know the LK can be repaired now.  And I am starting to miss having at least 1 working washer in St-Lib.... LOL 


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Post# 956306 , Reply# 43   9/5/2017 at 17:17 by Maytag85 (25 miles from Idywild, 25 miles from Temecula. )        

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That is a very nice Lady Kenmore! I have a Lady Kenmore portable belt drive washer and dryer. My lady Kenmore portable dryer betrayed me too! All I need is a timer wich should arrive soon, and I need to order new casters for the Lady Kenmore portable washer and dryer.

Post# 958618 , Reply# 44   9/22/2017 at 17:06 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        
A further update on M'Lady's condition....

turquoisedude's profile picture

Good news first!  I got a new spin tube assembly  (with drive pulley and brake yoke - bonus!!) and a new set of bearings.

Thanks John!!

 

 


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Post# 958619 , Reply# 45   9/22/2017 at 17:07 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

More good news, I rounded up the bearing installation tool.


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Post# 958620 , Reply# 46   9/22/2017 at 17:12 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        
Wait for it....

turquoisedude's profile picture

However... I don't have the bearing extractor tool.  I know a service technician  in Stanstead who had one - he says he can't find it (and I believe him - his shop makes the expression "a dog's breakfast" sound neat and tidy).

 

Ffffffffffiddlesticks.

 

The search continues. Until then the laundry is being done in Ogden.  Impromtu wash-in this weekend anyone??


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Post# 958624 , Reply# 47   9/22/2017 at 17:46 by potatochips (Nova Scotia)        

I have an extractor, Paul! Would you like to borrow it?

Post# 958628 , Reply# 48   9/22/2017 at 18:44 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

OMG!  Yes, please Kevin!!  


Post# 958635 , Reply# 49   9/22/2017 at 19:13 by potatochips (Nova Scotia)        

Sure thing Paul, I get home from work on Monday and I'll send it away!

Post# 958887 , Reply# 50   9/24/2017 at 11:22 by bendixmark (Winchester Mass)        
bearing

Hey Paul,Looking at your bearing I don't see anything wrong with it.I think you have an alignment problem there either that or something is hanging up.I have done hundreds of bearing jobs the bearings don't cause the machine not to spin at all in general.When they fail they get worn and have play. Thank you again for posting that boltdown westy its on its way.

Post# 959310 , Reply# 51   9/26/2017 at 17:16 by bendixmark (Winchester Mass)        
No spin

I would also check to make sure the clutch shaft on the transmission is lubricated and is dropping properly when the camber pulls out.If you replace the centerpost bearings I would use the larger mandrel for the top bearing for the lower depth so you can put in 2 seals.When it comes to removing a stuck basket drive shaft get some plumbers emery cloth in a roll and emery cloth the tpop of the shaft where that rust ridge is and then spray wd 40 in.The shaft should be much easier to remove after doing this I have done it many times.

Post# 959461 , Reply# 52   9/27/2017 at 15:58 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

Mark, the upper bearing was scored leading me to believe that I made 2 big boo-boos: not replacing the spin tube and likely not applying enough lubricant...

But some good news at last: I picked up the bearing extractor tool from a fellow who's father used to be in the appliance business! Better still I am probably going to be able to buy those tools at some point!!

 

So next week, Lady K will be under the knife.  

Lastly, I recall that the bearing installation process requires turbine oil and grease. I cannot for the life of me recall what kind of grease it was.... 


Post# 960395 , Reply# 53   10/3/2017 at 10:10 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

Lady K is resting after this morning's bearing extraction procedure.  It was a success...

 

And for once, take note of this,  I made the decision to replace BOTH bearings as I had the means to do so, even though the lower bearing did not seem to be so bad. 

 

It's not a good picture, but look at how badly scored the upper bearing was!  Lesson learned about not replacing the spin tube when one rebuilds a belt-drive Whirlpool/Kenmore/Inglis washer....  

 

New bearings should be in shortly.  


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Post# 960416 , Reply# 54   10/3/2017 at 13:12 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

Lady K is out of surgery and has regained her bearings....  

 

I figured while the tub is out, it would be wise to clean up the center post and give it a coat of POR15.  While that's drying, I'll see if I can muster up the strength to at least get the new spin tube and brake assembly onto the gearcase (thank you again, John!!!).  

 

I just may be doing laundry in St-Lib again this week - good timing, too. Hubby arrives back from a conference in Japan tonight.  


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Post# 960558 , Reply# 55   10/4/2017 at 11:40 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        
Oooookay......

turquoisedude's profile picture

So I got the washer reassembled yesterday and when I tried it today....wait for it.... the dang-blasted thing wouldn't spin.

 

I have run into this before (about 3 times with the Inglis....) - so I tried previous 'remedies'. I made sure the clutch yoke spring was in the right place, made sure the drive belt was sufficiently tensioned, and loosened the gearcase mounts ever so slightly to realign the spin tube.  None of the above seemed to do it. 

 

I took the entire gearcase out to make sure it was seated correctly.  That resulted in a weak, stuttery spin that is shown in the video attached:

 





Post# 960559 , Reply# 56   10/4/2017 at 11:49 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

It seems as if something is just not 'catching' as evidenced by the video taken of the basket drive slipping...  

 

So, the $64,000 question is 'why'...  Something that is bugging me is the fibre plate (shown on a newer basket drive assembly here but not the drive installed in the machine).   The old basket drive brake plate was securely riveted to the brake plate (and forgive me, I am presuming the fibre disc is a brake) and I seem to hear something turning with a very slight scraping noise when I try to engage spin.   Other observation, the basket drive pulley got fairly warm during the brief attempts I've made to get the washer to spin.  

 

What could be going wrong here?  Is some kind of adjustment to the brake assembly needed?  

 

Should I bring the Blackstone back from Ogden so I have a working washer for the winter months??


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Post# 960563 , Reply# 57   10/4/2017 at 12:14 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
I recall that the upper brake lining design was originally riveted to the drum, later changed to "float" for braking effect on both surfaces.


Post# 960680 , Reply# 58   10/5/2017 at 00:17 by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Hey Paul

Did you check the tee-bearing? If I recall, my old tee-bearing (the bronze type) fit too snugly when I replaced my spin tube. I had to lightly sand the inside of the spin tube with a dremel until it just fit without binding. It only took a couple passes with the dremel.

I also recall that if you have the white one it has a steel ball that holds it in place and sometimes there are issues with it (the steel ball) falling out.


Post# 960681 , Reply# 59   10/5/2017 at 00:45 by bigalsf (Salt Lake City)        

Hi Paul,  just a thought, have you checked the clearance of the clutch lining and the pulley?  When the machine is not in spin the clearance should be 1/16'' .  If the clearance is too high the yoke will not drop down far enough for the pulley to engage the clutch lining.  It is adjusted with the nut next to the yoke spring (adjust in small increments to get the right clearance).

 

DADoes is correct, Whirlpool removed the rivets in the early 60's, allowing the brake lining to float and improve braking  performance.

 

The other thought I had was to check the spring clip on the opposite side of the yoke.  Sometimes this clip can sit in the wrong position on the locating shaft.  If it is not positioned properly it will also affect the movement of the yoke downward.  

 

Hope this helps.  It's such a nice looking machine, I hope you can get it running soon.  :)

 

Good luck!


Post# 960712 , Reply# 60   10/5/2017 at 07:31 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

James,  I remember seeing the sanding down of the tee-bearing on another restoration (by John when I got my '56 Whirlpool Imperial) but in that case, we had swapped transmissions and I think we just replaced the spin tube.  With the Lady K, I got the complete basket drive assembly, so I wasn't sure that I'd need to do this.

 

Alan, I had been reviewing the Whirlpool/Kenmore service literature I have and I wondered if the basket clutch shaft needed some adjustment - I am just not sure how I'm going to get a ruler in there to measure the clearance.... LOL 

 

So after groceries, I'll take another look-see.   

 

Thanks for the suggestions!!!

 

 

 

 


Post# 960739 , Reply# 61   10/5/2017 at 10:03 by swestoyz (Waterloo, Iowa)        

swestoyz's profile picture
Great suggestions on checking the T bearing, as well as the clutch to pulley clearance. The sounds from the video suggest that the clutch continues to slip just enough to not fully grab on the spin pulley.

Another thought I had was to check which spin cam bar you have installed. When Whirlpool went to the smaller clutch around 1970 for the quick brake, the springs were stiffened as well, causing issues for the earlier non-hardened cam bars. The instruction sheet I have for a few NOS replacement basket drives come with a replacement hardened cam bar in case the basket drive is used on a pre-1970 machine.

Ben


Post# 960746 , Reply# 62   10/5/2017 at 11:37 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        
D'OH!

turquoisedude's profile picture

Ben, I think you've hit the nail on the head.... The basket drive 'kit' included a new cam bar, but me, being me, thought, "Well mine ain't broke..."  It probably won't hurt to swap it.    I didn't have an instruction sheet with my basket drive kit - darn it.  

 

So guess who's pulling the Lady's gearcase out (again) this afternoon?   LOL 


Post# 960755 , Reply# 63   10/5/2017 at 12:23 by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

I took a picture of the instructions for the new basket drive kit I had when I did my rebuild. I ended up just replacing the spin tube on the old basket drive and kept the kit as a spare but thought the instructions would help someone down the road.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO 114jwh's LINK


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Post# 960757 , Reply# 64   10/5/2017 at 12:32 by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

If you are taking the gearcase out anyway, check the t-bearing just in case. The bearing sits inside the spintube so even if you are replacing the whole basket drive, you still have a new spin tube.

Good Luck Paul! Hope the 2nd time is the charm :)


Post# 960768 , Reply# 65   10/5/2017 at 13:13 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

Thanks James! Since everything is out again I'll check it again.

 

I am pretty much convinced the new spin cam bar is going to do it... note the 'bump' in the middle of the new bar. I feel confident that this will raise the yoke assembly sufficiently to 'grab' the new style basket drive.   I just hope I can securely attach the new rivet to the spin plunger!

 

So, one really does learn something new every day.  Lessons learned here: when a part comes with 'accesories', install them and when in doubt -ask questions!

 

Now, who's still betting on the Blackstone  (and there is a 1-18 wild card...)?


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Post# 960771 , Reply# 66   10/5/2017 at 13:17 by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
my guess

pierreandreply4's profile picture
My guess would be the 1 18 lol

Post# 960840 , Reply# 67   10/5/2017 at 18:46 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
1965 LKM Washer Spin Problems

combo52's profile picture

Hi Paul, the bump in the middle only helps the cam bar stay in either the spin or neutral position, it does not contact the clutch control shaft.

 

It is not the tee bearing that needs sanding etc, do be sure the TB is properly supported on the agitator shaft, there are three different styles of TBs I don't know which yours has.

 

Did you try inserting the new spin Tube in the bearings once you got the bearings installed in the center-post?, it should insert easily and turn easily as well as move in and out.

 

If you like call me before you reassemble the machine so you don't have to do it a third time.

 

John L.


Post# 960890 , Reply# 68   10/6/2017 at 06:48 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

John,  I'll be calling you this weekend for sure!  

 

The good news - the spin tube did turn freely in the new bearings and pops out easily (3 times now.... LOL)

 

My dilemma now is that I cut off the spin cam plunger rivet to be able to change the cam bar (and full disclosure - I swear that the clutch yoke assembly moves higher with the new spin cam bar) - there was a new rivet included with the cam bar, but I'm up the creek as to how to attach the new rivet.

 

I'll load the Blackstone into the station wagon, nonetheless.... LOL 

 


Post# 960899 , Reply# 69   10/6/2017 at 08:22 by bigalsf (Salt Lake City)        
Not a rivet

It's just a tension clip/fastener you push onto the replacement cotter pin.  A small nut driver can be used to push it onto the pin.  It's pretty tight going on so it will hold and not vibrate off.    


Post# 960901 , Reply# 70   10/6/2017 at 08:56 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

Yes,  John said there should have been one with the new rivet, however I must have lost it when I opened the package with that in.  

 

Thinking somehow I can substitute a screw or bolt.... 

 


Post# 960908 , Reply# 71   10/6/2017 at 09:58 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        

combo52's profile picture
you can use the largest cotter pin that will fit through the hole , BUT cotter pins may break over time, if you can find a tiny push on clip for the pin you have it would be better, as this is a hardened pin.

Post# 961301 , Reply# 72   10/8/2017 at 07:27 by bendixmark (Winchester Mass)        
poor spin

From what I have seen I would say that is mis-aligned.Remove the braces,back the transmission bolts out 9 turns,stand the machine up and tighten them each 3 turns at a time.The machine must be standing up.If you reinstalled the transmission the first time with the machine on its face you will have alignment problems.After the bolts are tight try the spin then.The drive pad clearance must be one sixteenth of an inch(whats our clearance Clarence?)The boltdown westy you posted that I bought came yesterday and wow is it beautiful.Thanks so mush again.

Post# 962153 , Reply# 73   10/12/2017 at 14:08 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        
An update....

turquoisedude's profile picture

Or "the further suffering of the Lady"...

 

The good news - found a 'speed nut' that worked with the new cam bar rivet.  If anyone runs into this issue, it is a 1/8-inch diameter.


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Post# 962154 , Reply# 74   10/12/2017 at 14:19 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        
But would it spin....

turquoisedude's profile picture

Short answer.... not quite.

 

Upon reinstallation of the tub, and after the new cam bar rivet was secured, I did get the washer to spin.  However, it was noisy as hell and the belt looked like it was getting chewed up.  Not good.  

 

I found the tub was binding when I tried to turn it by hand.  Well, as Mark described above, I tried loosening the gearcase mounts to re-align the spin tube and agitator shaft (standard Whirlpool procedure).  I also slackened the belt slightly.  This resulted in no spin.  

 

After I convinced Canyon I was not speaking in tongues,  I tried further loosening of the gearcase mounting bolts, as suggested in the Whirlpool doctrine.  Well, I got the basket turning a little easier.  Spin was slllloooooowwww however.  

 

The last thing I tried this afternoon was to adjust the nut on the basket clutch shaft.  The machine seemed to be running a lot quieter but the tub started to spin, then spun out....  

 

One thing I did notice was that when I did the initial noisy spin test, when I shut the machine off the tub came to a screeching halt, which it never, ever did before.  

 

I am guessing there is some further adjustment needed here - my gut feeling is saying basket clutch shaft nut but if there is something I am overlooking, please do let me know.   I am at the point where A: I'd like the guest bedroom back, B: I'd like the Kenmore working again, and C: I really, really need some kind of a functioning washer in St-Lib.    

 

Rant over.... carry on... 


Post# 962157 , Reply# 75   10/12/2017 at 14:33 by Stricklybojack (San Diego, CA)        

stricklybojack's profile picture
.
Could the problem be electrical?


Post# 962159 , Reply# 76   10/12/2017 at 14:50 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

I don't think so, but ya never know....  I haven't observed any trouble with the motor during agitation (like overheating or shorting).  The wig-wag has tested fine and I have seen the cam plungers for spin and agitation pull up.   

 

I have to get back to Ogden tomorrow, but when I get back, I think I'd better dive into that 1-18 in the garage!!

 


Post# 962175 , Reply# 77   10/12/2017 at 16:50 by bendixmark (Winchester Mass)        
no spin

I still think you have an alignment problem.I am assuming you have the braces off.I would pull the transmission,double check you have nothing binding.The basket shaft should move freely in and out of the centerpost.check the t bearing that it fits smoothly into the bottom of the basket shaft.Re install the transmission and tighten the bolts only finger tight then stand the machine up and tighten the bolts 3 turns at a time until tight.The clutch pad clearance must be way off to affect spin performance but double check anyway.Make sure the upper centerpost seal is completely seated otherwise the basket collar will drag on it.Try spin again.

Post# 962201 , Reply# 78   10/12/2017 at 19:52 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Slow Spinning 65 LKM Washer

combo52's profile picture

Hi Paul,  Mark may have identified the poor spin problem, in your post #54 the top spin tube seal is too high and may be binding on the basket drive block.

 

I may be coming in that direction in the next few weeks, We may have to fix this washer when I get there.

 

John L.


Post# 962230 , Reply# 79   10/12/2017 at 23:03 by potatochips (Nova Scotia)        

Hey Paul, I used the old spin tube seal to seat the two new spin tube seals I had to install on my machine. From post 53 it looks like your machine uses a single upper seal, and I think this upper seal is supposed to seat with its upper most lip being about 1-2mm above the centre post.

Post# 962254 , Reply# 80   10/13/2017 at 07:04 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        
I concur

turquoisedude's profile picture

That something somewhere is not sitting correctly - it makes sense that the bearing is a likely cause of the spin issues.

 

However, I really want a working washer in the house in St-Lib (where I don't have the choice of 9 mostly-working vintage washers like I do in Ogden!) so I think the Lady is going into 'dry dock' for a spell.   

 

John, if you do come visit, please let me know - I'd welcome your assistance at this point.  I think I may be getting too old and weak for this washer restoration stuff alone!! 

 

And full disclosure, why I need a working washer so badly in St-Lib:  as of November, I'm entering into a foray into the world of antiques, vintage and collectible items - as a potential store co-owner!   But more on that later.

In the meantime, I've got to take a run at a WC8 Frigidaire washer sitting in the garage in St-Lib next week.   

 

 




This post was last edited 10/13/2017 at 06:57
Post# 962902 , Reply# 81   10/16/2017 at 16:31 by bendixmark (Winchester Mass)        
poor spin

One surefire way to know if you have an alignment problem is try turning the agitator shaft with the agitator installed.There should be no drag at all it should turn freely you should be able to spin it with your hands.If it feels stiff or does not spin along with the basket during spin then you know for sure you have an alignment problem.

Post# 971546 , Reply# 82   12/4/2017 at 18:38 by StrongEnough78 (California)        

strongenough78's profile picture
Hey Turquoisedude, any update on this? Were you able to get her running?

Post# 971551 , Reply# 83   12/4/2017 at 19:13 by turquoisedude (Ogden & St-Liboire (where??), QC, Canada)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

No, I decided to take a break back in October - we were about to leave on vacation and a certain Hubby was voicing concerns about the two non-working vintage washers in the St-Lib house so I moved the '66 Blackstone in to fill in for the Lady K.  (Full disclosure, a 1978 Frigidaire Crown 1-18 is the other vintage washer giving me grief at this house)

 

I am going to get my sorry behind in gear on this after the Christmas season, though.  I've gotten a lot of great advice as to what could be wrong and I am confident I'll get my turquoise Lady back into service again!  If not, John Lefever will be getting a plane ticket in the New Year.... LOL    


Post# 971753 , Reply# 84   12/5/2017 at 16:23 by StrongEnough78 (California)        

strongenough78's profile picture
Well I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. Let us know how it goes!




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