Thread Number: 71395  /  Tag: Detergents and Additives
New Persil launch "once in a decade break throuh"
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Post# 944683   6/22/2017 at 15:00 by golittlesport (California)        

Just read this on Google News...not a liquid, not a powder....lentil-shaped "power gems." Wonder if this will make it to the states?

CLICK HERE TO GO TO golittlesport's LINK





Post# 944689 , Reply# 1   6/22/2017 at 16:06 by nmassman44 (Boston North Shore Massachusetts)        

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Methinks that we won't see that here in the States since this is a Unilever Persil for the U.K. and not the Henkel Persil we have here in the States.

Post# 944710 , Reply# 2   6/22/2017 at 18:02 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Yuck!

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"... and new technology that allows fragrance molecules to cling to fabric throughout the wash."

I can imagine that the products will have an overpoweringly vile, cloying scent, which will linger to the point of distraction.


Post# 944711 , Reply# 3   6/22/2017 at 18:36 by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

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I still buy Universal Powder.

The Liquid Stinks in my own opinion. The liquid Persil smells like Perfumey crap Laundry detergent which I don't care for. I like the detergent to do it's job and leave my Laundry with barely a scent which is Fresh and Clean. Not like Woolworths.


Post# 944791 , Reply# 4   6/23/2017 at 02:23 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Just rubbished a few bottles of Tide liquid as could no longer abide the scents.

One was Tide with a "touch" of Downy in Clean Breeze scent. Did a load last week and noticed after line drying the scent still packed whiff. After folding noticed one's hands reeked of the same scent. Put on some clothing a few days later washed in same, and noticed later when changing that same scent was all over one's body skin. In short every thing that was touched by laundry washed in that Tide had scent rubbed off upon it.

That was it for me, so out the stuff went, along with bottle of "Colourguard" and something else which cannot recall. Happily these were gifted from trips to the laundromat so am not out good money.


Post# 944802 , Reply# 5   6/23/2017 at 06:03 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Interesting.  The 'power gems' look a bit like the Downy Unstoppables pellets. I used to use UK (Unilever) Persil bio powder.  It was a great cleaner and I liked the straightforward, fairly unobtrusive scent.  Eventually, the cost of importing it became prohibitive, considering Tide With Bleach Alternative was its match for cleaning at a fraction of the cost.  Tide, of course, doesn't rinse out as well in soft water.

 

Aside:  Bit the bullet and ordered a couple of jugs of Perwoll Dark Intensive from Amazon.  It's become very expensive, but it keeps blacks black through quite a few washes.  Had switched to the more economical/easily-found Woolite For Dark Colors, but found black clothes went dusty/grey quickly.


Post# 944820 , Reply# 6   6/23/2017 at 08:46 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
"washed in that Tide had scent rubbed off upon it"

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I found the same with P&G's Ariel Powder, and Unilever's Comfort fabric conditioner.

The Ariel got passed onto my mum. I had noticed that Comfort clogged the conditioner dispenser, and I honestly couldn't stand the smell - it was even absorbed into the plastics of the machine. So it (a small bottle) got flushed down the sink with plenty of water. And then the the drain stank of the persistent stench! Plastic drainpipes, vile.

I am wondering why exactly the fragrances are SO strong. Is it an attempt to cover up horrible chemical smells of modern formulations?

Frankly, I despair.


Post# 945378 , Reply# 7   6/26/2017 at 11:30 by AquaCycle (West Yorkshire, UK)        

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I'm currently awaiting delivery of this - it's Unilever's zero scent brand.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO AquaCycle's LINK


Post# 945380 , Reply# 8   6/26/2017 at 11:48 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Unilever's "Neutral 0%"

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Thanks for that!

Please do tell us how it performs.

Squinting at the enlarged pics on their website, the powder seems to have four enzymes: protease, lipase, amylase and mannanase. In other words, like Persil, but minus the stench.


Post# 946327 , Reply# 9   7/2/2017 at 08:49 by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

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Ingredients list is out now and confirms what I expected those Power Gems to be, they are more or less what they look like - Megaperls run over by a truck ;-)

CLICK HERE TO GO TO mrboilwash's LINK


Post# 946335 , Reply# 10   7/2/2017 at 09:21 by Gyrafoam (Roanoke, VA)        
Scented for what purpose?

I can understand the light scents of the detergents of old, however, in today's world clothing is rarely worn more than an hour or two before the kids throw it into the hamper---or floor. Adults just as bad. We all know people who use a towel only once. In the old days people wore clothing until it really did get dirty, and in those days a lot of people did not bathe more than a few times a week.

Adults work in offices now, not out in the fields and factories, for the most part. And under-arm deodorants are quite commonplace. Men commonly wear after-shave or cologne these days as much as women do (here in the US). And nearly everybody takes one shower a day (with their scented shampoo and soap).

Only thing I can think of is they are trying to mask the nasty odors coming from the front-load washers with the black algae and mold from chronic use of the "trailer" setting (Cold/Cold) or lack of ventilation, or both.

Kind of like the "washing-machine cleaner" they (detergent manufacturers) now market, making even more money off of their campaign of dumbing-down the public into buying their (so-called) "Cold-Water" Detergents. And, "helping" the manufacturers (they are in bed with), cope with the short-falls of their performance.

Nobody even needed, much less, thought of, a "washing-machine cleaner" back in the day, because most people had top-loaders, always used a HOT or Warm wash, regularly used Chlorine Bleach, and left the lid open so the machine could dry-out and not start to rust in between uses.

I think Laundress is right. All the heavy fragrances can be obnoxious.
The commercial phosphated detergent I buy has a nice light lemon fragrance much like the old FAB detergent did. It is easily rinsed out.
I completely understand why people are tired of all the heavy scents. I guess I won't be a new Persil customer.


Post# 946343 , Reply# 11   7/2/2017 at 10:16 by aamassther (Hendersonville, NC )        

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"Ingredients list is out now and confirms what I expected those Power Gems to be, they are more or less what they look like - Megaperls run over by a truck ;-) "

There's one key difference though, neither formula has any bleach. It looks chock full of OBA's, to me, precluding it from being useful on colours. Though it does have 4 enzymes. I'll probably still try to score some from Amazon if someone imports it, lol.


Post# 946346 , Reply# 12   7/2/2017 at 10:49 by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

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How could I only miss there`s no bleach in it ? I hang my head in shame ;-)

But still it is just a powder that has gone through an extruder in the manufacturing process. Just like Megaperls. Nothing new or groundbreaking about it, but they look nice and I`d like to try those Power Gems.


Post# 946349 , Reply# 13   7/2/2017 at 11:42 by iej (Ireland)        

I would actually reckon European guys wear a LOT more fragrances than their US counterparts. They shower just as much too.

The reason for the scents is nothing to do with masking bad odours or cleaning. Rather, it seems like a large % of consumers like these scents. I'm not a huge fan myself but, clearly someone is.



Post# 946367 , Reply# 14   7/2/2017 at 15:09 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
No Oxygen Bleach...?!

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Not much use for whites. And it's very likely that traditional powders will STILL perform better at cleaning.

It's almost as though they've repackaged a 'Colour' powder into those lentils, and called it 'Standard'.

I don't think they'll last long - they'll likely to be overpriced, and not seen to be good value.

Call me underwhelmed.


Post# 946371 , Reply# 15   7/2/2017 at 15:28 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
PowerGems Videos in link below...

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Video 1: They need to get rid of that childish woman's voiceover. That alone puts me off.

Video 2: Dose it like you would a liquid. I wonder how it would perform dosed via the dispenser drawer?


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Rolls_rapide's LINK


Post# 946474 , Reply# 16   7/3/2017 at 05:50 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Daily Fail Says

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Looks interesting enough one supposes:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...

Thing is P&G, Henkel, Unilever, et al all are facing the same issues; the laundry detergent market is mature and quite saturated. Worse consumers are finding out they don't need to spend on top shelf brand names when many others products will do the job just as well for less.

Of course we've seen this before, and anyone who has studied marketing and sales knows the drill.

Mature products like toothpaste, toilet tissue, washing powder, and a host of other things have pretty much reached the state of the art when it comes to innovation. That is they all pretty much do what they are supposed more or less, though some do it better than others. Enter this or that "new" feature that is supposed to make one product stand above the others.

It is amazing to one that there are shelves upon shelves of say toothpaste on shop shelves. They all do basically same thing and leaving aside taste and some other personal preferences there isn't that much difference between. Yet some cost $$$, others, $$ and still more just $.

Same thing with laundry detergents. When consumer testing groups in all countries round them up it is surprising that often the so called "bargain brands" do a respectable enough to quite good job.

In the past decade or so we've had tablets, ultra concentrated, mega perls, concentrated liquids, gels, various pods, packs or whatever; now we've got detergent that looks like bits of candy.

As for Unilever's claim there new product uses less chemicals that is hard to credit. That little list from link above made the Doomsday book look like a raffle ticket.


Post# 946475 , Reply# 17   7/3/2017 at 05:52 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
No Bleach...

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Think this new product may be Unilever's nod to the fact so much in terms of household textiles and personal apparel is colors and or cannot be routinely bleached with the activated systems of old found in most EU detergents.

Am not that worried as have no doubt that Unilever will release some sort of stain "booster" to go with this new detergent that is heavy on bleach.


Post# 946551 , Reply# 18   7/3/2017 at 14:24 by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

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I have speculated that one reason for heavy scents is to cover up the fact that the "energy saving cold wash" has limited effectiveness.

 

In any case, I have come to a point of hating scents. I moved to using unscented in summer when I dry outside so the only scent would be the fresh outdoor scent. But I've come to a point of using unscented during dryer season simply because I've gotten tired of the often overly strong scents.

 

I used a bottle of Wisk during last winter. I got it because A) I was curious given that some here really like it, and B) it was cheap that day. It was OK as a detergent--although I don't think it was the greatest I've ever used--but I really didn't like the scent. I was able to stand it on clothes, but that was that. I had a small supply of unscented still that I used for some loads like sheets. 


Post# 946566 , Reply# 19   7/3/2017 at 16:11 by dixan (Europe)        

"But still it is just a powder that has gone through an extruder in the manufacturing process. Just like Megaperls. Nothing new or groundbreaking about it, but they look nice and I`d like to try those Power Gems."

In fact, nothing like Megaperls. Completely different technology with minimum zeolite content. Megaperls are based on zeolites (about 40% or more) and this detergent contains less than 5%. Grounbreaking is the concentration: Powergems is more than two times more concentrated than the Megaperls.
Too bad Powergems doesn't contain oxygen bleach, but the price would be much higher.


Post# 946584 , Reply# 20   7/3/2017 at 19:00 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
While historically the use of strong scents/perfumes

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Was used to cover up appalling B.O., this was mainly from other eras when personal hygiene meant bathing was something that occurred infrequently or not at all.

Europeans bathe as much as anyone else in the world, and that hold canard about French or others roaming around with a pong is getting old.

Being as this may what many do not subscribe to is the idea of dousing themselves with chemicals meant to prevent perspiration. Sweat is a perfectly normal biological function meant to rid the body of wastes in addition to cooling. You wouldn't want to stop the process of voiding liquid or solid waste would you?

Got on a NYC bus several days ago. At the back was sitting a group of several African young men. Could tell they were from that continent by the patios being spoken amongst themselves. They were all clean, well dressed and so forth; but the entire bus had a pong you wouldn't believe. Rather put on in mind of what the Black Stars locker room must smell like....

This was one of the newer NYC buses that are quite large vehicles, really two buses joined together, and had only a small number of passengers. Worse it being summer all windows were closed and the AC was running. So that pong was recycled inside that closed container of a bus...

Living in a place with a vast and growing homeless population am well acquainted with the scent of those who have not bathed in weeks (or years....) versus that of simple "sweat".

Upshot of all this palaver is that powerfully scented laundry or other products have nothing to do with covering up body odor, but simply are a result of makers following what marketing research tells them consumers want.

First time went to France on one's own and went shopping at Ed's was quite bowled over in the laundry product section. Shelf after shelf full of detergents and whatever that packed a powerful smell. This was some time ago now and things really have only gotten worse IMHO.

Many Americans who have moved and or otherwise living in France have noticed same:

www.davidlebovitz.com/the-notsosw...

On this side of the pond the largest and fastest growing consumer demographic is Latino-Hispanic market. That group seems to prefer *very* strongly scented laundry and other cleaning products.


Post# 946629 , Reply# 21   7/4/2017 at 04:01 by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

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Yes, right a larger quantity of the zeolithes seems to be replaced with EDTA (Tetrasodium Etidronate). That means less insoluble stuff is used which is probably very desirable for most consumers. Considering how toxic the stuff is for humans and the environment Henkel`s slogan "Quality and Responsibility" appears in a new light for me now.
Where did you find the dosing instructions and the data of ingredients in percent ?
Using less than half of the product (by volume?) compared to existing super concentrated powders is indeed groundbreaking.

When I was the first time of my life in Paris riding the Metro I was flabbergasted at the amount of perfume or cologne everybody has put on. Most Parisians could easily fill an entire cabin with scent. As a perfume lover I could even tell who is wearing what sometimes. Always put a big smile on my face. I think it`s an adorable twist in French culture and I hope it will stay as it is.

Americans seem to have a week spot for dryer sheets instead of perfume or cologne. At least that`s my impression as an outsider. I like that too.
I hope there won`t be such an intolerant witch hunt again as we`ve had against smokers.



Post# 946639 , Reply# 22   7/4/2017 at 05:25 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Dryer sheets

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Took off in the USA because top loading automatics were the dominate type of washing machine. Unless your machine had a fabric softener dispenser (many did not), one had to either rush to machine in order to catch the rinse, or reset the washer for another cycle in order to use liquid fabric softener.

When Cling Free and Bounce were introduced their main marketing ploy was about convenience. Now Madame (or anyone else doing the wash) didn't have to deal with her washer's rinse cycle.

Not to be out done; number one liquid fabric softener at that time (Downy by P&G) countered dryer sheets with advertising saying that unlike those products that "softened here and there" (meaning wherever the sheet landed during tumble drying), Downy softened the entire load; "Downy goes wherever water goes...".

P&G did introduce a Donwy dryer sheet (have some in my stash), but it didn't last long IIRC.

As for "weak spot" regarding dryer sheets, I don't know...

Have seen persons use a scented detergent, add those "unstoppables" and then toss one, two or more dryer sheets into machine with same load.


Post# 946654 , Reply# 23   7/4/2017 at 08:19 by Aquarius1984 (Ripley, Derbyshire)        

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I've spent 3 days washing varied loads in these.

I dislike the lack of bleach. Persil confirmed on the phone these variants are not suitable for whites.

Low water using machines can cause the gems to stick on the door boot which I have found will happen. They suds up on towels a lot despite containing no soap. However they rinse out well bar the door boot issue.

Not worth the money over regular powder by any means. I've tried but I won't buy again in a hurry.

The fragrance is very subtle on washed loads, just a light fresh scent. Nothing over powering at all.


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Post# 946676 , Reply# 24   7/4/2017 at 11:43 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Thanks for the consumer test.

Are they suitable to dose via the powder drawer?


Post# 946677 , Reply# 25   7/4/2017 at 11:57 by Aquarius1984 (Ripley, Derbyshire)        

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Yes I've done two loads via the drawer today and no issues though I'm not investigating further than the drawer cavity. I'm not prepared to start pulling apart a 12 month old TOL machine just yet lololol. I'd say they flushed thru ok.

Post# 946699 , Reply# 26   7/4/2017 at 15:22 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Good testing!

It makes you wonder where exactly in the spectrum of detergents these PowerLentils are supposed to be positioned.

Not for Whites, because they have no bleach - yet the green (and blue, for that matter) packaging infers that they are a suitable replacement for standard powders.

You'd probably get out of these, equal performance to a liquid, or a Colour powder.

I'll wait until they have a rethink.


Post# 946708 , Reply# 27   7/4/2017 at 17:12 by dixan (Europe)        

Tetrasodium EDTA is not toxic, mrboilwash. Anyway, zeolites are not much better for the environment either. They are removed from the waste waters, but they are very expensive to reactivate, so there are mountains of used zeolites. Phosphates were processed to fertilizers in the past; zeolites are just waste. The main problem with zeolites is that they are not good for the laundry - they are insoluble and very abrasive. That's why most of the companies decreased drastically zeolite content in their powders. Substituted them with sodium sulphate and sodium carbonate - not much better. Today's washing machines use very little water - the future is for the powders with very small doses (compacted) and minimum insoluble ingredients and fillers.
Don't get me wrong - Megaperls was and still is great detergent, especially regarding the bleaching action and surfactant content. When first launched it was revolutionary, however this formula is obsolete and need to be revised. Henkel will reformulate or discontinue them.


Post# 946709 , Reply# 28   7/4/2017 at 17:13 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Previous comments not withstanding

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Since this new product is designed to go into wash tub mayhaps lack of bleaching agents is a way to avoid possibility of textile damage.

Mega-Perls were meant to go into the dispenser and thus (hopefully) dissolve before coming into contact with wash. This new product that goes into tub/on top of washing combined with today's low to piddling water use machines could pose problems if they contained bleach.


Post# 946715 , Reply# 29   7/4/2017 at 18:37 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
"...avoid possibility of textile damage."

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And by creating the product to be dispensed in that particular way, Unilever have perhaps made a rod for their own backs / painted themselves into a corner. They left out the bleach, but at what cost? Cleaning efficiency?

I for one, am not fond of some of the modern dosing devices with their sharp edges, clattering around in the drum. If I bought this product, I'd still dose via the drawer.

Maybe it is just me, but I fail to see what the problem is, that this product is the answer to. I see nothing revolutionary, like new enzymes, or cleaning 'accelerators', or fabric rejuvenators, or stain shields. Nothing stands out as new or inventive, that other products cannot already do.

Perhaps Persil PowerGems is just an exercise in design, in cahoots with University students? It really wouldn't surprise me.



Post# 946717 , Reply# 30   7/4/2017 at 18:47 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Well the "problem" such as it tis comes from consumers for various reasons still wanting powders, thus forcing detergent manufactures to find ways that will satisfy that demand but also those of others.

Here in the USA at least "big box" powders of old (which usually if not always had large amounts of fillers) have given way to various "ultra" or compact versions. These formulas not only save in terms of transportation, stocking and other associated costs, but consumers don't need and environment is better off without all those fillers.

In the 1990's detergent makers thought a return to the tablet format was the way to go. That didn't work out so well (again), and once again tabs were withdrawn from the market. So what next?

While liquid, gels or whatever fluid format seems to have edged out powders, not everyone is thrilled. IIRC it was the German consumer testing group that bemoaned the "polluting" aspects of some liquid/fluid detergents.

Yes, commercial laundry detergent powders still come in huge containers. However if you examine the recommended dosages often it is a few to several ounces/grams for 100lbs of wash. That is pretty powerful stuff.


Post# 946718 , Reply# 31   7/4/2017 at 18:49 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Dosing devices

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Well the cap from Ariel Excel gel detergents is useless in the Oko-Lavamat. The thing uses so little water in wash that it can take ages (if ever) for entire gel to be flushed out of that cap. For liquid products it is wonderful IMHO.

Post# 946727 , Reply# 32   7/4/2017 at 20:10 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
"...to be flushed out of that cap"

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That's what I liked about the Zanussi IZ machine. The pumped recirculating jet actually flushed dosing devices clear of detergent.

(I was using Lever's soft, pliable Radion ball, with P&G's Ariel liquid, at the time).


Post# 946731 , Reply# 33   7/4/2017 at 20:37 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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If one could open the machine and get our Lavamat's recirculation spray to aim inside cap and flush detergent out, would be right as rain. Sadly this isn't possible so am left with few options if want to use.

Sometimes will wait for machine to have filled with enough water but still not deactivated "Open Door" button, stop machine reach in and waggle the cap of detergent in water which has collected so far at bottom of tub. It is either this or take a bit of clothing or whatever and scoop product out.

Needless to say that Ariel gel in Alpine Fresh scent rarely sees use in the AEG. It is all too much bother..... *LOL*


Post# 946733 , Reply# 34   7/4/2017 at 20:52 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Hmm.

I'll tell you what I did, when I discovered Ariel liquid was not flushed clear from the dispenser drawer of my new machine. It is more viscous than store brands.

I had an old 1 litre detergent bottle, empty, with screw cap. I half filled it with Ariel, added cold water slowly to almost fill the bottle, replaced the cap, and rocked the bottle gently like a seesaw several times to mix the detergent, not to create foam.

The detergent is now easily dosed by the bottle cap, via the drawer, and behaves more like shop brands, easily flushed from the drawer.


Post# 946738 , Reply# 35   7/4/2017 at 22:50 by mamapinky (blairsville pa)        

Problem with adding water to the detergent is water will grow bacterias quickly. I'm not sure if there's enough preservatives in that detergent to also keep the water safe. Reason I know this is neighbor was not happy about her son using all the liquid bath soap so quickly so she removed half and added water..well son left and returned several weeks later and wasn't long before he ended up with some kinda skin infection that the doctor blames the water in the soap caused. This kid had no medical so mother paid out of pocket I'd say she didn't save anything adding water to that soap. Lol

Post# 946741 , Reply# 36   7/4/2017 at 23:20 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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In general unless going to be dispensed/used at once one should *NEVER* add tap water to dilute anything. Especially if it is to be left sitting.

All fluid products are made with preservatives to keep germ/mould and other nasty things at bay or count low enough not to cause harm. Tap water is NOT sterile and the use of it will introduce bacteria and all sorts into said product. Even in nursing/medicine when sterile water is introduced to make up a solution (under sterile conditions) the solution does not have an infinite "shelf life".

Even worse whatever is lurking in that tap water may find nice things to feast and grow upon in product it has been introduced.


Post# 946748 , Reply# 37   7/5/2017 at 01:11 by mrsalvo (New Braunfels Texas)        

"I am wondering why exactly the fragrances are SO strong. Is it an attempt to cover up horrible chemical smells of modern formulations?"

Rolls_Rapide, I think you hit the nail right on the head!! I think that is exactly why the scents are so strong. As stated in a thread a couple of months ago about visiting friends & relatives, one relative washed towels in cold water with All Free & Clear and using the same fabric softner, evidently lots of it. The towels reeked of a strong industrial chemical smell, overlaid with a distinctive moldy odor as well. The whole experience was...well, you can only imagine. I unscrewed a cap from All and it smelled strongly industrial, so much for free and clear.
My 2 cents.

Barry




Post# 946752 , Reply# 38   7/5/2017 at 02:20 by dixan (Europe)        

"Since this new product is designed to go into wash tub mayhaps lack of bleaching agents is a way to avoid possibility of textile damage."

Interesting logic but not quite correct in my oppinion. The product is not designed to go into wash tub; it have to put into the drum because obviously during tests there were problems with dissolving when put in the drawer. It was the same with the first versions of Ariel compact powder and Persil/Skip/OMO tablets - they sold these products with a net bags to be put in the drum. However Ariel compact powder and Persil/Skip/OMO tablets did contain oxygen bleach and didn't damage anything.
The lack of bleach in Powergems is maybe because they couldn't incorporate it in the formula with the same level of compactation and mainly - concentration, effectiveness and stability.
Henkel have product called Persil Power-Mix Caps - in one compartment of the cap there is liquid and in the other - powder. In Power-Mix Caps for whites the powder contained oxygen bleach in the first bathes. However the powder part was very unstable for some reason and from white was turning brown for several months. Now the formula don't contain bleach.
In the final, there is belief that "ultra" or compact powder is more concentrated because they remove part of the fillers. It's not that simple. Indeed, they decrease the filler level but the main is the granulation technology used in compact powders. Remove the fillers from a powder granulated in the traditional way and you will have a mess.


Post# 946753 , Reply# 39   7/5/2017 at 03:06 by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

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Dixan, I don`t like insolubles like zeolithes as well so I switched to liquids a long time ago. Don`t miss the bleach as I can still add some H2O2 based stain remover when really needed. Whether EDTA is toxic or not is disputable, but as a matter of fact most of it won`t be removed in waste water treatment. However biodergadability in the environment is a very slow process and for the worst part it`ll leach out heavy metals from sediments before it finally breaks down.

I agree that zeolithes are kind of obsolete and have a bunch of disadvantages like being abrasive, they increase the amount of useless sludge in waste water treatment and their remaining dust in clothes is another problem.
The fact that most powders decreased zeolithe content significantly stands only true for traditional big box powders but not for compact powders. According to our consumer testing group the main reason for this trend is the high costs of zeolites. It may also be worth mentioning that in the last test of powders compact Ariel for example did a brilliant job and the big box one failed compleately. All other compacts also did a better job than their traditional counterparts. This is probably not only the result of reduced amounts of zeolithes but still.

Laundress, we`ve been told a lot in the past by our consumer group and the Bundesumweltamt (Environmental Agency) regarding what detergents we should use in terms of pollution and some opinions seem to have changed.
They always preferred compacts over big box ones because traditional powders contain lots of salts like sodium sulfate as filler which may end up in ground water. Salt cannot be removed in waste water treatment and threatens our wells. I wonder why this isn`t a problem in the States where whole house water softeners are so commonplace.
Liquids have been demonized for years mainly because of their very high surfactant content But apparently formulars have changed now and in terms of pollution haven`t heard anything negative about them anymore.


Post# 946755 , Reply# 40   7/5/2017 at 04:03 by dixan (Europe)        

Unfortunately compact powders are available only in Germany and two-three other countries. It's normal to be better - they contain higher amounts of bleach and surfactants. The zeolite content in compact powders can't be decreased with the current granulation technology.

I know the results from the test you mention. It's strange how private label products are better than brands like Ariel or Persil. For example, the best traditional powder is Formil (Lidl own brand); Tandil compact (Aldi) is better than Megaperls. Good job, Dalli Werke!
The only compact powder we have here is Denkmit (DM drugstore; I think it's manufactured by Thurn Produkte... or Dalli, I'm nor sure). I really like it's whitening power. Lidl persist and don't import their Formil compact.


Post# 946760 , Reply# 41   7/5/2017 at 05:50 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
German Testing

launderess's profile picture
www.testberichte.de/a/waschmittel...


www.test.de/Colorwaschmittel-Ald...

It is amazing that for both color and universal detergents Aldi beats or is just as good as Persil. Interesting that Lenor detergents rank nearly always dead last.


Post# 946761 , Reply# 42   7/5/2017 at 05:56 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Have some German professional laundry detergent

launderess's profile picture
In my stash made by Kreussler chemie. It is for colors so contains no bleach, but also has nil Zeolites. Am here to tell you the stuff is very concentrated but does an excellent job on all sort of laundry from dress shirts to bed/table linens. It also is one of the most clean rinsing detergents one has in our stash.

Post# 946765 , Reply# 43   7/5/2017 at 06:54 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Ariel Test Results

rolls_rapide's profile picture
When Which? tested our detergents, they ranked Lidl's Formil, just ahead of Ariel for cleaning performance.

Ariel is sold here as a 'big box' powder, but there has been some form of compaction/concentration over the past few years.

The only liquid to get a decent result for keeping white articles bright, was Unilever's Persil.


Post# 946767 , Reply# 44   7/5/2017 at 07:06 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
"It's strange how private label products are better than brands like Ariel or Persil."

Think much depends upon where these private label products are sourced.

Dalli Werke and Kreussler Chemie aren't exactly poor companies producing cheap imitation products. IIRC one or both are where Miele turned for their private label laundry products.

Now that Henkel has firmly taken Dial into hand it will be interesting to see if serious competition arises against P&G. Ever since Tide came onto the scene P&G has been the dominate laundry product producer in the USA. Tide simply is the top dog to take on. However the past recession exposed chinks in that armor as people discovered they can get decent enough to acceptable washing from less expensive products.

Am not surprised Henkel killed off Wisk. Certain formulas of Wisk detergent ranked rather high in Consumer Reports testing in past, some coming quite near Tide.


Post# 946790 , Reply# 45   7/5/2017 at 10:05 by dixan (Europe)        

Launderess, I find it strange, because usually private label products are much cheaper than branded ones. Cheap means that some ingredients are missing or the quantity is lower. Take the bleaching system: for a good bleaching system you need certain ratio between persalt and activator. Activators are expensive, so cheap products don't contain activator or they contain very low amount of it. It means poor bleaching action. However, it's not the case with Dalli's products (the manufacturer of Formil, Tandil and many other home brands). Their powders contain great bleaching system, various sorts of enzymes, surfactants in good levels... Good for them!
Dalli is my favourite private label manufacturer - from shampoos, conditioners and creams to cleaning products and detergents, the quality is excellent and the prices are very nice. May I be excused by the guys in the UK, but McBride's products are horrible.


Post# 946794 , Reply# 46   7/5/2017 at 11:00 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
"McBride's products are horrible"

rolls_rapide's profile picture
Philistine! Non-believer! I am deeply shocked! LOL

I know exactly what you mean...

A few years ago, ALDI in the UK had Almat washing tablets sourced from Dalli Werke. They had five enzymes (protease, amylase, cellulase, lipase, mannanase). Quite a nice fragrance too, a sweet, peppery type smell.

The latest formulation is from McBride. Three enzymes (protease, amylase, lipase). The fragrance is different - it reminds me of the circular blue "Spring Bouquet" air-freshener fitted to Hoover Ltd's Turbopower cleaners. Not my favourite.

I've tried McBride's 'Clean & Fresh' powder. The fragrance was like Plasticine modelling material. One enzyme, protease. Minimal suds - but I don't know if that was because of a poor ratio of surfactants to fillers, or whether it was actually designed to be a lower foaming powder. I imagine the former.


Post# 946798 , Reply# 47   7/5/2017 at 11:47 by dixan (Europe)        

Aside from the smell, McBride formulations are bad. Not good quality at all. And this is the largest private label manufacturer in Europe... I wonder why.

Post# 947181 , Reply# 48   7/8/2017 at 14:49 by Michael (London /England)        
Quite impressed!

I saw the new Persil power gems for sale in Asda..£11.00 for a 19 wash bottle...I bought it and did a wash this morning..Minimum iron 40 in my Miele..a mixed wash of bedding, towels and tea towels..i, too put them in the drawer rather than the drum.
I wasn't too impressed with the smell when I took the washing out and thought it cleaned "ok".i hung it out and went to work. when I bought the washing in ,however...WOW everything was really bright which shocked me and the smell actually was nice, not overpowering, but fresh! I have a black wash to do tonight and am in two minds if I should use it for that!


Post# 947190 , Reply# 49   7/8/2017 at 15:56 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
"£11.00 for a 19 wash bottle"

rolls_rapide's profile picture
That price would really rankle with me. I wouldn't pay it.

Post# 947194 , Reply# 50   7/8/2017 at 17:08 by Aquarius1984 (Ripley, Derbyshire)        

aquarius1984's profile picture
Asda here have the 12 wash packs for £2.50. They're not worth that price tbh over the normal powder

Post# 947241 , Reply# 51   7/8/2017 at 23:35 by Michael (London /England)        
Sorry..my mistake

The bottle of power gems I bought was 30 wash...not 19 wash for £11.00. Still expensive, I know. I'm just doing a black wash with them, instead of using Surf black liquid...Hope it will be ok...

Post# 947259 , Reply# 52   7/9/2017 at 01:50 by Michael (London /England)        
Actually NOT impressed!

I've just hung out my black wash, washed in the new Persil on a dark wash 40. I normally wash in Surf black liquid with a scoop of vanish with no problem. I can be a messy pup and one of my t shirts had an oil based stain...well, it done nothing!..its back in the basket for next weeks wash!!
For the cost of this "premium" detergent, I would have expected it to wash as well as a liquid with vanish, so I won't be buying again...I will use it on the coloured bedding.


Post# 947316 , Reply# 53   7/9/2017 at 12:36 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Oil based stain

rolls_rapide's profile picture
I had an oil based stain too, splashes from cooking oil.

I washed the offending article once with Tesco Bio tablets (stain still present after drying).

Washed a second time with the same tablets - stain still there after drying.

Washed a third time, this time with Lidl's Formil Bio Powder. The stain is now gone completely.


Post# 947365 , Reply# 54   7/9/2017 at 16:58 by Michael (London /England)        
Interesting Rolls_rapide

I have never tried their bio powder. I tried the colour powder one once and it turned to stone in the drawer...it actually took the smooth surface of the plastic off so I never used again!Do you have any issues with the bio powder or is it worth trying?
Regards
Michael


Post# 947421 , Reply# 55   7/10/2017 at 03:34 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
"took the smooth surface off the plastic"

rolls_rapide's profile picture
That has happened with both my mum's and my sister's Bosch machines - and they use standard Ariel!

The smooth plastic becomes very, very rough, almost as though it is deteriorating. Not only the drawer, but the bottom of the soap box too - where the tidemark is left, as the dissolving powder has been sluiced away. Pretty weird. I think it must be to do with zeolite content.

I did notice a small blob of undissolved Lidl Formil in my machine, about the size of a grape seed. Nothing major, but I have heard of Aldi's powder clumping in the drawer.

I quite like Lidl's Formil, due to the reasonably subdued fragrance.

I can't abide Ariel after the items have dried - I'm absolutely sure they've got Frebreeze rubbish in there - even in the standard powder. It's vile.


Post# 947492 , Reply# 56   7/10/2017 at 15:59 by Michael (London /England)        
Totally agree

I, too cannot stand the STENCH of Ariel!Years ago, it had a pleasant fresh smell and was an excellent powder...now, if a customer comes in the shop,i can tell that awful smell straight away!

Post# 947686 , Reply# 57   7/11/2017 at 13:50 by dixan (Europe)        

Formil in the UK and the one here are the same. It's great detergent. The German version is somehow better. I've never had any residues in the drawer or on the clothes; it removes all the stains and it's cheap. I don't really like liquids, but I tried Formil superconcentrated liquid detergent and I have to say I'm impressed.
I wonder do you have any other detergent brands in Lidl? I mean, Lidl own brands, not Ariel, Persil, etc. We have Formil as TOL and also we have MaxiTrat and LEL as BOL.


Post# 947709 , Reply# 58   7/11/2017 at 15:26 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Lidl's own detergents

rolls_rapide's profile picture
No, my local Lidl only has "Formil" laundry detergents. I seem to vaguely remember years ago, the "Maxitrat" brand. I wonder if that was a 'special promotion' at the time?

Usually, these days, our 'specials' are the giant size packs of Formil 'Tropical' Powder or some such.

I noticed too, that Formil Bio tablets aren't carried (green box), but the Non-Bio tablets (blue box) are still in stock, as are the ones in the lilac box.


Post# 947858 , Reply# 59   7/12/2017 at 15:38 by Michael (London /England)        
Whites wash with the new Persil

I did a boil wash with the new Persil pearls...I have had to do it again using good old Persil bio powder...All the tea towels came out with the stains still in, in fact, I swear there was more stains than what they went in with!...lol...
Seriously though, a hygiene 95 wash with the powder has never let me down..i am sooo disappointed with these pearls, I think they will disappear soon,i cant be the only one let down


Post# 947864 , Reply# 60   7/12/2017 at 16:29 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Boil wash let you down

launderess's profile picture
Well it would, wouldn't it? These new Persil "perls" or whatever do not contain bleaching agents, so the increased temperature to hot or even boiling isn't going to get one very far. Since it seems the product relies mainly upon enzymes, surfactants and whatever else besides bleach to shift soils/stains, hotter water temps probably are of limited to nil use.

Have used non bleach containing enzyme based laundry products to soak badly soiled things. Usually after overnight soaking most stains are gone totally or at least shifted well enough. Often what remains are either traces or marks with heavily pigmented matter such as red wine, currants, berries, tea, etc.. For that one must use bleach, nothing else will do.


Post# 947866 , Reply# 61   7/12/2017 at 16:38 by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
IMHO Nothing beats Persil non bio powder

ozzie908's profile picture
In the whites wash ! Have tried a lot of products over the years but always go back to big box Persil. I believe the non bio has a higher bleach content which when washed higher than 50c temp makes every thing WHITE not bluey white like Daz or Ariel but proper white. I have a Miele W4449 which has a built in pump to dispense liquid detergent I have as yet to use it because according to the instructions I need a special container that sits on top of the washer .... Not happening as the dryer is there. So would anyone who may have or used to have a similar Miele to mine know if the pump is gravity fed or will it dispense from a tube in a bottle sat at the side ?
Thanking anyone who may know :)]
Austin


Post# 947868 , Reply# 62   7/12/2017 at 16:57 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
"Whites wash with the new Persil"

rolls_rapide's profile picture
That's definitely not good.

Maybe Unilever has jinxed itself by including the dreaded "Power" word on the label? The last time "Power" was used, it meant disintegrated clothes.

By all means, Unilever should make a super concentrated detergent - but please do so using all the technologies that have been proven to work. Don't neuter the product and pass it off as something else. Ill-conceived and poorly executed.

It still isn't in my local Tesco. Maybe some regions are a testing ground?


Post# 947883 , Reply# 63   7/12/2017 at 19:28 by liamy1 (-)        
It still isn't in my local Tesco. Maybe some regions ar

As far as I can tell, ONLY Asda or Morrisons are carrying them (mainly Asda) at the moment - searched ALL supermarkets since the announcement on the 23rd June.

I got 2 bottles today - they smell nice enough.

The marketing would certainly not have you believe that they don't contain Bleach (but most people wouldn't know/care).

Although, this could be a trend, as Daz took oxygen bleach out of their Powder a few months back.


Post# 947894 , Reply# 64   7/12/2017 at 20:30 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
"Daz took oxygen bleach out of their Powder..."

rolls_rapide's profile picture
Whaaat?! (I went and checked...)

You're right! The swines!

What's going on, some kind of cartel to get rid of sodium percarbonate?

I bought a box of 'Daz 65 Years', and I thought it was the usual stuff - I haven't used any of it yet.

On info-pg.com, standard 'Daz' had the bleach. I thought 'Daz 65' was the same formulation.

'Daz 65 Years' I now presume to be the same as 'Daz - Whites & Colours'. No bleach. Ingredients below.

DAZ WHITES & COLOURS:

Sodium Sulfate
Sodium Carbonate
Sodium Dodecylbenzenesulfonate
Sodium Silicate
Zeolite
Aqua
Sodium Acrylic Acid/MA Copolymer
Cellulose Gum
C14-15 Pareth-7
Citric Acid
Sodium Laureth Sulfate
Sodium Chloride
Co-polymer of PEG / Vinyl Acetate
PARFUM
Tetrasodium Etidronate
Hydrated Silica
PEG/PPG-10/2 Propylheptyl Ether
Disodium Distyrylbiphenyl Disulfonate
Brightener 15
Kaolin
Microcrystalline Cellulose
Silicone Compound
Titanium Dioxide
Sodium Polyacrylate
Sodium Starch Octenylsuccinate
Dextrin
Hexyl Cinnamal
Polyethylene Glycol
Limonene
Tripropylene Glycol
Polyvinyl Alcohol
Protease
Citronellol
Mannanase
Calcium Carbonate
Lipase
Colorant
Sodium Hydroxide
Magnesium Sulfate
Trideceth-n
Sucrose
Dichlorodimethylsilane Rx. with Silica
Zinc Phthalocyanine Sulphonate
Amylase


Post# 947898 , Reply# 65   7/12/2017 at 20:46 by liamy1 (-)        
Daz,

Yes, sorry :)

There was a big test campaign by P&G a few months ago when they "rejigged" Daz and made it for "whites&colours" (see link).

P&G obviously figured (people couldn't give a hoot), were getting fed up of needing different products for different wash loads, so they designed their line (powder/liquid/pods) as being "suitable" for all wash loads.

Unfortunately, as we are all well aware, there is ALWAYS going to be a compromise somewhere when using one product (to be fair to Daz, their booklet on SSM did acknowledge this - can't find booklet on the site, but it should be there).

So my guess is, they took the bleach out, upped the blue whitener and called it an all round detergent.

Of course, as we are all aware, if manufacturers had their way, powder would be gone, but they just can't make that break at the moment.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO liamy1's LINK


Post# 947902 , Reply# 66   7/12/2017 at 20:55 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
No oxygen bleach...

rolls_rapide's profile picture
... leads to the question, how is one supposed to keep the machine clean and free of mould if the bleach isn't present? And whites will become dingy too.

Post# 947903 , Reply# 67   7/12/2017 at 20:59 by liamy1 (-)        
... leads to the question, how is one supposed to keep the m

Too true.

Suppose it will keep Dettol/Dr Beckmann, Bosch, Samsung, Hotpoint (and so on) happy.

LOL.

And now Persil have done it too. Launch a new product, to combat the problems of low temp washes with liquids (this is how Powergems was positioned at launch) and then they take the Bleach out :/


Post# 947904 , Reply# 68   7/12/2017 at 21:04 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Oh well...

rolls_rapide's profile picture
...if this trend keeps going, it looks as if Lidl's Formil will soon have no competition in the cleaning of whites.

I didn't think it was possible, but P&G have dumbed down yet further, their bottom line powder. What's next, empty packets?


Post# 947905 , Reply# 69   7/12/2017 at 21:08 by liamy1 (-)        
What's next, empty packets?

Haha :)

Post# 947911 , Reply# 70   7/12/2017 at 22:20 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
P&G, Henkel, and many others sell various "booster" laundry products that are nothing more than oxygen bleach (with or without activators)and enzymes along with perhaps others things.

So if one's wash isn't coming clean with these bleach free versions of Persil, Daz or whatever, said companies will likely recommend/steer one in that direction.

Mind you this has been going on for some time now as liquids, gels and other fluid formats have edged out powdered laundry detergent. Again most it not all of those products do not contain bleach so....


Post# 947914 , Reply# 71   7/12/2017 at 22:53 by liamy1 (-)        
Boosters

Correct Laundress.

Our main and very long time one here in the UK is Vanish (made by Reckitt Benckizer, who interestingly, don't have any laundry "detergent" products on the UK market).

RB must dance with glee with what P&G and Unilever (our only branded detergent makers - as we have no Henkel laundry either) do to their formulas.

As I'm sure you already know, a few years back, Ariel launched a whole range of them (at least 8-10 products) of boosters, but they didn't stay on the market long. Think P&Gs mistake was giving it the same name as their TOL (and most prized brand in Europe (besides Pampers)). I know I remember thinking it was almost as if they were saying Ariel detergent wasn't good enough on its own.

Although I know the main intent was probably to aim it at non-Ariel detergent users.


Post# 947917 , Reply# 72   7/12/2017 at 23:03 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
P&G Sells Various Boosters Here Under The Tide Brand

launderess's profile picture
Have to say quite fancy some of them:

tide.com/en-us/shop/type/laundry...

www.amazon.com/Tide-Boost...

www.thespruce.com/tide-boost-sta...

www.amazon.com/Tide-Boost-Wash-B...

Like them for doing laundry where one wants an activated bleaching system (good for hot or just warm wash), and or soaking in cold water; but don't want to deal with all the fillers such as Zeolites in Tide or other detergent powders.

They are also good when using certain liquid detergents that are "free' of enzymes, dyes, etc.. such as Linen Wash. That stuff is good for cleaning linens but no so much at shifting stains, so....


Post# 947919 , Reply# 73   7/12/2017 at 23:49 by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        
More stains showing up *after* a boil wash

Well, that brings back memories, LOL!

I've seen that happening a lot when friends and family, who, BTW, claimed to be happy with their laundry routines and with how white their clothes were, for one reason or another put a load in the washer for a "boil" wash (95C/205F), or even just boiled a handful of small garments on the stovetop, usually to remove only one or two stains that were being stubborn.

Of course, I find out, because I'm usually the first person to get a call to ask what to do next and what "made new stains show up after the boil wash".

It doesn't take much to find another few pieces of cloth they have around that are "clean", even when you look at them, to show them what happened and make it happen again.

You look at say, a "white" kid's t-shirt and it looks fine. You bring it near a source of bright light, like a lamp or window and it looks fine, but when you look *thru* it so the light is not reflecting, but passing thru, and you may just see new stains show up and disappear depending on how the light reflects or passes thru the fabric.

What's going on?

Well, some manufacturers found out that when places like Consumers Reports and Which? etc test how well their laundry detergents clean, they do so "scientifically" by using a color spectrometer, of whatever fancy name they have, but the thing is that the machine gets easily confused when enough optical brighteners are involved.

In the early 90's for example, one of the cases that I've seen was a t-shirt that looked just fine, but when you made the light pass thru the fabric you could clearly see where a chocolate milk had been. The article had been washed with a product that had gotten Consumer Reports top pick. The detergent that we used that removed the stain by just washing it had been in second or third place for both "cleaning" and "whitening", because, although it actually *cleaned* much better than the first pick (probably had more enzymes and more than one detergent), it did not have as much optical brightener or a kind that did not glow as aggressively as the first product.

Because those stains are not fully removed, they bake on multiple cycles in the dryer, and when one boil washes the clothes, you remove most of the dirt around it and the old stains show again. You can repeat the process or use stain removers to get the old stains out.

BTW, that's usually the *other* thing I hear about -- when the articles are boiled on the stovetop for the first time and people are looking at the process, they also report that the water was disgustingly dirty, when all the articles had been previously washed and they were just trying to remove a few stains.

So, anyway, not saying that this is what happened to Michael, but it's what it reminded me of, given that boiling or washing clothes at temperatures higher than 60C/140F is not very common here in US, although as more and more washers start offering the option of a "sanitary" wash, we're beginning to see more of this happening.

Cheers,
   -- Paulo.


Post# 947923 , Reply# 74   7/13/2017 at 00:06 by liamy1 (-)        
Tide Boosters

Some of them seem to be like the Ariel "3d" stain pods we used to have.

Linked below the Ariel version(s) - sorry it's just an image search as they're not made now.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO liamy1's LINK


Post# 947924 , Reply# 75   7/13/2017 at 00:13 by liamy1 (-)        
Paulo

Yep, Ariel did a whole advertising campaign "close up clean" for that very thing.

Basically saying, they look clean, but are they really?










Post# 947995 , Reply# 76   7/13/2017 at 07:35 by spoodles (Cheshire, UK)        

They've actually made Daz into 2 separate products with one specifically for whites (with bleach) and the general use one without it. Whites & Colours is their new bleach-free product and Ultra Whites is basically the old one with a new name.





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Post# 948003 , Reply# 77   7/13/2017 at 08:15 by michael (London /England)        
All good with big box Persil bio

I re washed everything with Persil bio powder on cottons 60 with prewash...everythings spotless as i would expect..those gem pearls will keep for bedding...

Post# 948023 , Reply# 78   7/13/2017 at 09:27 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Ah! New Daz Ultra White!

rolls_rapide's profile picture
Thanks for that, I had no idea it was on the market too.

My view is:

(a) Two similar Daz products take up more shelf space in the supermarkets, and that space is already at a premium. I can't imagine they'd coexist for long.

(b) Similar styles of packs will surely cause confusion for some consumers, with some folk accidentally picking up the wrong one and wondering why their whites aren't dazzling, whilst others do the opposite and wonder why their coloureds are fading.

Why on Earth don't P&G just make a modular powder detergent - basically for coloured laundry, but with a user-added bleaching component for whites and stubborn stains?

Something like, say for example, an imagined packet of 'Daz Colour Preserver Powder' + a packet of 'Daz White Booster'. I think Ecover had a modular system of basic powder and separate bleach.

With decent authoritative advertising, P&G should be able to get the message across loud and clear.



Post# 948041 , Reply# 79   7/13/2017 at 13:03 by liamy1 (-)        
Thanks for that, I had no idea it was on the market too.

Me neither, I have seen that Daz Ultra White (but only Ocado are carrying it at present).

I just don't get it, Ariel and Persil have gradually been doing away with "colour care" detergents in POWDER format (to the point that only one box size is available (22/23 wash respectively - no 10 or 40/45 wash). This could be argued is because they want to push people to pods.

Now Daz want to come along and make a 2 powder format detergent.

If they're going to do that, instead of having a "whites&colours" and then an "ultra whites". Why don't they just have Daz "regular" and Daz "colour".

Mind, that has been done before, does anybody know how long Daz colour was around for last time?






Post# 948042 , Reply# 80   7/13/2017 at 13:17 by liamy1 (-)        
Sorry,

*To clarify. I have seen that Daz UW, but thought it was old stock. As the whole point of the test campaign on SuperSavvyMe was that consumers would need one product only.

(Yes there is a compromise, but the average Joe wouldn't be any wiser - I bet nearly all of the 6000 testers don't know there is no bleach in it, heck they probably don't know detergent had Bleach in it at all).

Manufacturers aren't that forthcoming with the workings of a detergent, and to be honest, as long as you buy their brand, they really don't care.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO liamy1's LINK


Post# 948062 , Reply# 81   7/13/2017 at 18:22 by spoodles (Cheshire, UK)        

liamy1 - You can now get Ariel Colour powder in 40 wash boxes. It seems to be one of a few new larger Ariel product sizes at Asda (along with 60 wash bottles of Colour liquid and 55 wash tubs of pods) but I guess it may turn up elsewhere in time too.







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Post# 948071 , Reply# 82   7/13/2017 at 20:18 by liamy1 (-)        
Spoodles...

Thanks for that, I was getting a bit fed up at the reducing colour powder sizes - as I always like the buy the bigger/biggest packs when buying.

As a Costco member (and Makro selling online member free), I use to get the 120-130 wash boxes, but they're just simply too big to store (and I got bored WAY before it was used up).


Post# 948621 , Reply# 83   7/17/2017 at 15:56 by Michael (London /England)        
Persil Powergems.. reduced price!

I was in Asda today and the 30 wash pack of powergems is reduced from £11.00 what I paid last week to £8.00. Personally, I wouldn't have them if they were giving them away..i can see them being a Which don't buy!
Big box Persil bio for me..no more gimmicks...well, at least till a new one comes along..lol





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