Thread Number: 71978
/ Tag: Detergents and Additives
The EU-ban of phosphates in DW detergent - I didn't even notice |
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Post# 952128 , Reply# 1   8/8/2017 at 09:20 (2,451 days old) by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin)   |   | |
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Do you have soft water? Or a whole-house water softener? Or do you add salt to the dishwasher's water softener, which all Euro dishwashers have?
If the answer to any of those questions is "yes" then you should be pretty much immune to a large extent and shouldn't really notice too much difference. I personally haven't noticed any difference.
However phosphates make a massive difference to my parents-in-law. They have extremely hard water and they don't have a whole-house water softener because my mother-in-law had one in the 1960s and didn't like washing her hair with soft water!! I've tried telling her that you can set it to blend in a little hard water to avoid the slippery feel, but anyway.... the water softener in their dishwasher seems to be broken and their dishwasher is now using extremely hard unsoftened tap water. I have tested the hardness. It was never a problem when the detergent contained phosphates, but now that they have been removed, the dishwasher was leaving a build up of calcium both in the machine and on the dishes. Plates and glasses actually had clearly visible patches of calcium. The dishes still came clean but looked terrible. I gave them a bag of STPP and they add a teaspoon to each load. The results are outstanding once again. |
Post# 952135 , Reply# 3   8/8/2017 at 10:12 (2,451 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))   |   | |
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The thing is: Any DW in the EU that I know of that has been build in the past 30 years or so has a water softner. Still, we had 15+% phosphates in DW detergent. |
Post# 952159 , Reply# 4   8/8/2017 at 11:49 (2,451 days old) by donprohel (I live in Munich - Germany, but I am Italian)   |   | |
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Dishwashers use softened water only in the last rinse, water for wash and rinses (apart the last) is not softened. Hence, the water softener does not make any difference as far as the detergent and washing performance are concerned |
Post# 952175 , Reply# 5   8/8/2017 at 13:21 (2,451 days old) by iej (.... )   |   | |
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It's called laziness and multi action tablets with "salt function" I'm using Sun Expert 3 in 1 at the moment which is totally phosphate free. Works absolutely perfectly.. |
Post# 952178 , Reply# 6   8/8/2017 at 14:07 (2,451 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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We replaced our Kenmore dishwasher from 2004, then I discovered on a YouTube video By JayKay18 one day, in "Detergent Day Part 23" awhile back. JayKay18 mentioned why dishwashers and washing machines don't clean anymore, it is due to the fact they took phosphates out of laundry detergent, and dishwasher detergent. looking back, it was not the dishwasher, it was the fact they took the phosphates out. The only way you are going to get your dishes and laundry clean, is to buy the high-end laundry detergent, and dishwasher detergent.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO Maytag85's LINK |
Post# 952180 , Reply# 7   8/8/2017 at 14:19 (2,451 days old) by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin)   |   | |
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Post# 952190 , Reply# 9   8/8/2017 at 15:10 (2,451 days old) by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin)   |   | |
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Post# 952192 , Reply# 10   8/8/2017 at 15:28 (2,451 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)   |   | |
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How long does a load of salt last in your machine? |
Post# 952196 , Reply# 11   8/8/2017 at 16:08 (2,451 days old) by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin)   |   | |
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Well, where I live the water is very hard. So my apartment building has a "community" water softener that removes most of the hardness, leaving the water slightly hard. Therefore I do add salt to the dishwasher but set to its lowest level. My machine's softener only has 4 settings: off, 1, 2 and 3. So I have it set to 1. I haven't kept an exact record, but I would say it regenerates around once every 8 cycles or so. I guess the "add salt" light comes on every 40 cycles or so. Again, that's approximate. When I do fill up the container, I guess I add somewhere between 500 g and 1 kg of salt. So basically, it doesn't consume very much salt really. I buy a box of Finish salt weighing 4 kg and it lasts for months and months. I have tested the water in the dishwasher (when not contaminated by food or detergent etc.) and it is very soft. My machine is a model specific to Spain and Portugal. It always operates both spray arms simultaneously, unlike many other BSH machines. It's about 10 years old. |
Post# 952241 , Reply# 13   8/8/2017 at 20:37 (2,450 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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we have very hard water here in Lexington and I don't have a water softener. Finish Powerball works great..Just bought some yesterday at Costco and they are now individually wrapped in this clear plastic and it says "no need to unwrap"...I had to call them to make sure this was the case because that clear plastic is hard plastic....but they say it's made to throw in the dishwasher.
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Post# 952347 , Reply# 14   8/9/2017 at 14:56 (2,450 days old) by iej (.... )   |   | |
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I was just wondering if this is also available in the UK? Sun Expert (made in France) Pretty decent detergent.
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Post# 952587 , Reply# 16   8/11/2017 at 10:15 (2,448 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)   |   | |
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It appears that 'Sun' is not supposed to be an official brand in Ireland either. It's odd the way Unilever has retreated from certain markets. |
Post# 952633 , Reply# 17   8/11/2017 at 21:14 (2,447 days old) by iej (.... )   |   | |
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It definitely is an official brand here as they run media adverts for it. I think their website is just inaccurate. |
Post# 955634 , Reply# 18   9/1/2017 at 17:13 (2,426 days old) by iej (.... )   |   | |
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Definitely seems to be a very official brand. It's in most stores in Ireland. I just bought an 80 tab pack today and find it a really good detergent.
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Post# 955638 , Reply# 19   9/1/2017 at 17:53 (2,426 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 955708 , Reply# 20   9/2/2017 at 08:21 (2,426 days old) by iej (.... )   |   | |
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I found Fairy doesn’t work well in my Miele dishwasher as it’s far too high foaming. You can hear the machine gurgling as there’s nothing but foam in the sump. |
Post# 955711 , Reply# 21   9/2/2017 at 08:55 (2,426 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 955958 , Reply# 24   9/3/2017 at 18:15 (2,424 days old) by iej (.... )   |   | |
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They've launched two versions of Sun Expert Gel here now too. I thought it might be interesting to give it a try. It was in Tesco for €8.00 reduced from €12.00 RRP
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Post# 955960 , Reply# 25   9/3/2017 at 18:24 (2,424 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)   |   | |
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It looks like a rocket ship ready for blast off! "Active Oxygen Pearls" - does that mean there's bleaching agent in it? |
Post# 956027 , Reply# 26   9/4/2017 at 07:05 (2,424 days old) by DishwasherRules (Italy)   |   | |
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@Rolls_rapid: Yes, Sun expert gel's pearls are made of a bleaching agent and it's the only gel detergent to clean tea and other bleachable stains completely (Finish classic gel, which was the only dishwasher detergent still available to contain some chlorine, changed to a non-chlorine formulation at some point at the end of 2016). I gave it a try but it makes way too much foam in my Miele G562 and I passed it to my mom, who has a more recent Miele dishwasher and loved it so much that she's been using only that ever since. You mentioned you used Sun professional powder - I'm tempted to try it, did you get any good result in your machine?
BTW, I live in a hard-water area in Nothern Italy and refill the salt tank in my machine whenever needed, I use Pril phosphate-free tablets (the Italian name for Somat) and a phosphate-free, supermarket-brand powdered detergent made by McBride that my G562 seems to enjoy much better than tablets, and I always get excellent results! |
Post# 956046 , Reply# 28   9/4/2017 at 09:13 (2,424 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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