Thread Number: 72127  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
IFA 2017
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Post# 953800   8/21/2017 at 09:15 by henene4 (Germany)        

So, it's about time again.

AEG is launching their new ÖkoKombi washer dryers with the touch display found on the most TOL Series 9 machines.
Seems solid enough, looks ugly with the vent cover in the bottom middle IMHO.

Siemens is launching a new TOL line, simmilar to the avantgarde, however with a touch display.
The washer is 10kg with a 70l drum and a 7.5h label cycle. Nothing impressive TBH.
The dryer however features the new filtering concept. They removed ALL manual clean filters. Therefor, they reworked the SelfClean system to take ALL the filtering duty ad to flush the lint into a small cartridge in the bottom of the machine that you have to clean every 20 or so cycles. Sounds interesting.

One suspicious thing: They added a small checkbox in their online data for a reversing function, which however isn't used on any model out yet. Maybe they finally came back to their routes?

Feel free to add other things or discuss!

Post# 953802 , Reply# 1   8/21/2017 at 09:28 by MrAlex (London, UK)        

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I find it really interesting that AEG has a built-in water softener in the detergent drawer! Just fill with salt and go! :) 


Are you allowed to take pictures??

Post# 953809 , Reply# 2   8/21/2017 at 09:57 by henene4 (Germany)        

I'm not going ths year, probably next year though.

The water softner AFAIK isn't actually in the drawer, only the salt container. The ion exchanger resin tank is behind the drawer housing I think.

Post# 953811 , Reply# 3   8/21/2017 at 10:07 by MrAlex (London, UK)        

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Really nice looking machines! 

Post# 954230 , Reply# 4   8/23/2017 at 13:38 by washerguy02 (Manchester )        

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The touch displays on the new aeg okocombi washer dryers look futuristic and remind me of the current tol miele machines and the look of the touch display on the new tol siemens line kinda reminds me of the display on the samsung addwash and are will they have wifi technology like some other brands

Post# 955145 , Reply# 5   8/29/2017 at 07:09 by henene4 (Germany)        
Miel MChef Dialog oven

I think I'm confused for the first time in a long time when it comes to an oven.

Miele is presenting what they call the MChef Dialog oven, that claims to be abled to cook a fish in an ice block without melting the ice. Or beef in a wax shell without melting the wax... How???

Everything else sounds like it just would be a microwave combi oven: Quicker cooking and bakeing, more even results. Sensor systems.

But they claim the power level of that new technology is selected with a point level (so no wattage or percentage per se).
And that it heats food without melting the ice around it.
You can use that technology even while cooking on 2 levels which isn't possible with microwave combi ovens usually.

What is that witchcraft?

Edit: So they have 3 demo videos on the German website:

1. Beef in beeswax mantle:
- brown beef on high from all sides in a pan
- melt beeswax in water bath
- poke a hole through meet and pull a cord through it
- dip in melted wax, hang to dry, repeat until shell is about 3mm thick
- put in Dialog oven, attach to meat probe
- settings: Hot air + MChef, 30°C, no setting for "Gourmet Units", setting for "Intensity" on Low, core temp set to 54°C

2. Pulled pork
- dry rub, let sit for 48h
- put in oven safe roasting bag and wrap in oven safe roasting foil
- MChef + Hotair, 150°C, 1450 Gourmet units, Intensity low, about 2.5h.

3. Raspberry souffle
- make some raspberry souffle mass
- fill in small dishes
- put on backing tray WITHOUT WATER BATH
- MChef + Upper/Lower Heat, 180°C (I think), 40 Gourmet Units, Low Intensity, 14 minutes

All these were mad on manual modes.
MChef manages to heat the meat to 54°C without melting the wax even the slightest. And to make a souffle without any worry about moisture. Or a whole pork neck to juicy pulled pork in 2.5h.
It has 2 setting: Gourmet units from 20 to 2000 and Intensity with 3 settings (High, Medium, Low), which can be set independently. You DO NOT need to set a time.

Sounds so close to an incdredibly exactly managed inverter microwave with some different wave length and somehow perfectly even distribution. But that would still not explain the cooked fish in an ice block, which is an ACTUAL DEMONSTRATION AT THE IFA.
And it wouldn't explain the souffle. Or that you don't have to set a time.

I'm flabbergasted. What is that? I need to get my hands on the manual ASAP.

This post was last edited 08/29/2017 at 08:41
Post# 955179 , Reply# 6   8/29/2017 at 10:29 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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It must be some kind of focussed microwave/radio frequency.

I am highly suspicious of cooking only until the meat is pink. I equate it to undercooked/raw. No thanks.

Post# 955181 , Reply# 7   8/29/2017 at 10:35 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Only 54°C???

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I thought food had to be cooked until the temperature was at least 70°C, in order to kill pathogens?

Sounds like there might be room for consumer error and thus, by extension, food poisonings.

Post# 955190 , Reply# 8   8/29/2017 at 13:04 by henene4 (Germany)        

54°C is a reasonable temperature for a steak. I mean, that's filet, I wouldn't like my filet beyond well done.

And I thought about a focused microwave system as well, but that would contradict the possibility of cooking on 2 levels at once.

Post# 955193 , Reply# 9   8/29/2017 at 13:40 by MrAlex (London, UK)        

mralex's profile picture
Medium rare is always my choice for steak and fish is good around 60-65c

Post# 955202 , Reply# 10   8/29/2017 at 15:23 by Brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

It would be great if they finally have a modern microwave setup in their combination ovens. When we recently redid our kitchen I put in the Miele TOL oven and combi oven. The combi oven on microwave is like a microwave from the 80s. A huge magnetron that grinds on and off at low power, no moisture sensor and only cooking by weight. I raised the deficiency with them when I bought it and there response was to think of it as an oven first, microwave second. The problem is their standalone microwaves don't have much more functionality.

We ended up making room to install our existing Panasonic convection microwave as well, so we could keep the precise inverter cooking and the sensor functions.

If Miele now have a humidity sensor, welcome to 1990

This post was last edited 08/29/2017 at 16:16
Post# 955252 , Reply# 11   8/30/2017 at 06:11 by henene4 (Germany)        

So, first, it's beyond expensive. 8000€.

But the technology has been revealed.

1) It uses electromagnetic waves, but with a way lower frequecy in the german GSM band, so about 890-960MHz vs microwaves at 2.4GHz. This means that the door is opaque as well. And that frequency apparently penetrates way further into the food.

2) The system not only blindly puts energy in. The antennas both put out energy and check how much is absorbed, adapting to these conditions in milisecond intervalls. There are 2 antennas, both probably independently controlled. This allows to precisley monitor the energy that actually made it into the food.

3) Because it uses a spectrum of wavelengths, it apparently can adapt to thickness and kind of food as well as its quality\nature of food by checking which frequencys get absorbed and which pass right through.

The gourmet units apparently equal an approximate total energy output into the food (again, that takes into account how much energy dosen't make it into the food), while the intensity regulates the power output per time. Thus, you have multiple ways of controlling the cooking:
- Time plus intensity
- Gourmet Units and intensity
- Core Temp and intensity

Of course it has everything a TOL oven has to have with Miele (moisture control, easy to use UI etc.).
Launch will be at the begining of 2018.

Post# 955291 , Reply# 12   8/30/2017 at 10:38 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Ah, radio waves!

The idea is certainly interesting, but the price... Yikes!

I wonder if using the radio wave function alone, if it's capable of boiling water (like putting a cup of water in the microwave)?

Post# 955395 , Reply# 13   8/31/2017 at 06:20 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Radio Frequency Oven by Goji

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Have a look at this!


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Post# 955700 , Reply# 14   9/2/2017 at 06:57 by L86810 (Southend, UK)        
Candy Bianca

There’s a new video on the Candy YouTube channel of a new machine

Looks pretty modern.

Zoom function which completes most cycles in 59min
Voice control
WiFi/ App connectivity
Recirc jet and steam


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Post# 955720 , Reply# 15   9/2/2017 at 09:48 by henene4 (Germany)        
Samsung redid the Dyson Contrarotator

Post# 955724 , Reply# 16   9/2/2017 at 10:01 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Not the Dyson...

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...But a reinvention of the Hoover Keymatic!

Post# 955734 , Reply# 17   9/2/2017 at 10:28 by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)        

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Yes, more like the Keymatic. The Keymatic had wear and tear issues though, wonder how the Samsung will do in that aspect.

Post# 955739 , Reply# 18   9/2/2017 at 11:14 by MrAlex (London, UK)        

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I want them both!

Post# 955860 , Reply# 19   9/3/2017 at 07:24 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
IFA 2017

rolls_rapide's profile picture
I watched the Panasonic Press Call on Youtube, and thought the Japanese lady executive was supremely elegant and modest in her presentation.

I've been trying to watch the Samsung presentation - and I can't! Their idiot presenters make me want to 'punch their bloody lights out'!

With such statements as: "Before we created the Samsung Add-Wash, it was impossible to pause mid-cycle and add something". Rubbish! We've been doing that for yonks.

As an aside, I was reading up about the differences between OLED and QLED television technologies. OLED is apparently the newest, thinnest, most sophisticated technology, able to fire each pixel separately, so you could have bright whites alongside pitch blacks, giving good contrast ratio. Overall brightness is lower than QLED.

QLED still relies on previous technology backlighting, which means colours are brighter than OLED tvs, but if bright whites are displayed, blacks become shades of grey.

The suggested next step in tv technology would perhaps be to marry the two technologies together, to give the bright colours of QLED with the contrast ratios of OLED. Interesting stuff.

Post# 955874 , Reply# 20   9/3/2017 at 09:13 by MrAlex (London, UK)        

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I can’t even find the videos and I see myself as rather computer smart lol

Post# 955877 , Reply# 21   9/3/2017 at 09:45 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Post# 955878 , Reply# 22   9/3/2017 at 09:46 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Laundry is about 20 mins in.

Post# 955879 , Reply# 23   9/3/2017 at 09:50 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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And to temper my previous boundless enthusiasm for OLED tv technology, it appears that there have been instances of 'screen burn' or 'image retention' with OLED. Samsung mentions that in their presentation, that's why they're pushing QLED.

Post# 955925 , Reply# 24   9/3/2017 at 14:18 by MrAlex (London, UK)        

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Cheers! :)

Post# 956431 , Reply# 25   9/6/2017 at 16:13 by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Loewe has brought the OLED technology on the market.

Post# 956437 , Reply# 26   9/6/2017 at 16:58 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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£3,000 !!!

Well out of my price range. I'd be wanting a 20 Year Guarantee (new for old) at that price.

Post# 956483 , Reply# 27   9/7/2017 at 02:03 by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)        

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Our member nrones was at the IFA and made some videos.

Post# 956509 , Reply# 28   9/7/2017 at 09:38 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Videos....Thanks for posting!

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Video 1: Haier machines at 4 minutes in.

This seems to be another 'Keymatic wannabe'!

Look at the drum - there's a red line.
Look at the rear wall of the drum - another red line.

The rear wall of the drum seems to rotate at a slightly quicker speed than the drum itself!

Post# 956529 , Reply# 29   9/7/2017 at 12:40 by foraloysius (Groningen, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
One more:

Post# 956540 , Reply# 30   9/7/2017 at 14:10 by MrAlex (London, UK)        

mralex's profile picture
Sigh.. I want them all! lol.. It'll be hard choosing when I get a larger apartment.... I'm sure I'll end up getting more than my partner would allow and then hide them in storage lol

Post# 956591 , Reply# 31   9/8/2017 at 01:44 by paulinroyton (B)        
Very Interesting

Post# 956597 , Reply# 32   9/8/2017 at 05:55 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
I want that right now!

It reminds me of the Space Family Robinson's washing machine (Lost in Space tv series) which presents the articles neatly folded and beautifully clean.

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