Thread Number: 72477  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Miele PW6065 wiring diagram or schematic?
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Post# 957724   9/15/2017 at 23:22 by Circuspeanut (Portland ME)        

Greetings from a new member. I generally hang out in vintage stove and sewing machine forums, but have a new project and you appear to be the best-informed folks around on all things washing machine.

I've acquired a windfall (almost free) Miele PW6065 OS LP washing machine that's got an oddball electrical scheme for offshore use -- it's a 400V 3-phase 50Hz model. Never been used; it was living crated on someone's ship but never actually installed and the new buyer didn't want it, so put it on Craig's List. It's 2008 or 2009, he wasn't sure.

I'm sure I can resell it if absolutely necessary to some other boat owner, but I've always wanted a Little Giant and am THRILLED to luck into one and hoping to convert it for home use. I've got a 240V circuit on 30A breaker with a NEMA L6-30R receptacle ready to go and can add more or alter it as required. We have a gas dryer so no need for splitting receptacles.

So. I've entered into an email discussion with Miele USA Technical and they've been quite friendly, albeit possibly not inclined to help me convert it since this particular machine configuration is not UL listed for the US.

I'd be happy to have Miele rewire it, change out the motor, etc, but if they wind up refusing me for liability concerns, I've got a wicked genius old-school electrician who is happy to play with it, provided I figure out what the machine's internal specs are currently. SO: I need to find the wiring schematic for this particular machine.

I see three conversion issues: hertz, phase and voltage. The technical specs on the PW6065 OS LP state that it has an internal Electronic Frequency Unit -- would this not cover the 50/60 Hz issue? Does anyone out there know? From everything I've read, it seems many of these Mieles actually take both 50hz and 60hz, but aren't always labeled as such.

The single vs 3-phase current is a puzzler; it's my biggest worry, but the Miele USA guy actually appears not to be concerned about it. Does anyone know if this machine has a VFD that accepts single phase if necessary and turns it into 3-phase for the motor? Here's where a detailed schematic would really help. The available online documentation says simply that it's got a "Commutator-free 3–phase asynchronous motor MXT 30".

The voltage from 400V to 240V is, I believe, a fairly simple rewire with the understanding that the heating element/s won't work quite as quickly as intended.

I don't yet have the machine in hand, it's coming into port sometime next week (!), so I'll know more when I can get my hands on it and take a look under the hood. In the meantime, any insights, experience and in particular documentation someone might have on this machine would be most gratefully accepted. Thank you!

Ellen in Portland





Post# 957725 , Reply# 1   9/16/2017 at 00:43 by RichNZ (New Zealand)        

Lots of technical info here




CLICK HERE TO GO TO RichNZ's LINK


Post# 957727 , Reply# 2   9/16/2017 at 01:12 by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
Not sure the motor is the issue

ozzie908's profile picture
Most motors use DC as they are inverter motors meaning the machine has a transformer or other method of converting AC to DC so thats ok and usually that uses 1 phase the other 2 are for the heaters so disabling 1 heater should make it single phase use but if you look inside the machine there should be a schematic diagram usually tucked on top the soap drawer.
Good luck and keep us posted.

Austin


Post# 957736 , Reply# 3   9/16/2017 at 07:40 by iej (Ireland)        
Nothing oddball about it. It's just European standard.

There's nothing oddball about it. That's standard European 3 phase power and would be used to supply commercial / semi commercial and even some residential heavy power using devices all over Europe, Australia, NZ, almost all of Asia except Japan and in fact most of the world, other than North America, Japan and some parts of Latin America.

You should be able to get plenty of advice on how to convert it.

Bear in mind though, it may not be possible if any aspect of the machine is genuinely using 3 phase and not just treating it as multiple 230V + N circuits.

Normally, they just provide a bus bar that is inserted into the L1, L2 and L3 terminals to bridge them and then you're connecting just L: 230V N: 0V and the ground.

That's how my Miele hob (cook top) was supplied in Ireland for example. It would be highly unusual here to use 400V 3-phase in a residential kitchen, but it's common in continental Europe. So the devices are setup for either system.

In the case of a washing machine that's intended for light commercial use, I am not sure if conversion is possible. Looking at Miele's website here, those machines seem to be supplied as either single phase designed for connection to a normal outlet with a plug - 230V 13amp max. Or, as a 230V 25amp setup for use with an hardwired or industrial type CEEform plug.

Or, they come as 3-phase using 400V.

Looking at the details, the differences seem to be the heater. Also they come with either a pump or a dump valve. If your model has a dump valve, you'll have to setup appropriate drainage.

I'm not sure how Miele electronics would behave on 60Hz.

If there's a diagram for 230V connection it should be useable on a dedicated 32Amp (or 35Amp) circuit.

Please make very sure that you comply with grounding requirements.
In its native environment this machine would likely be connected via a three phase 32Amp RCD (GFCO) and would be very solidly grounded.

Also you need to ensure it has the correct over current protection (breakers) as per the installation instructions. If something shorts, you've a fire risk without it.

Electricial systems can operate and seem fine but be highly dangerous in a fault situation if they're not setup correctly.

---

If you happen to know where the machine was sold, perhaps browse the local Miele site / email them for the diagrams? Miele are generally pretty helpful with tech support.

However, i think they'll likely tell you not to install it other than as per the rating plate as you will definitely invalidate the warranty by doing so.




This post was last edited 09/16/2017 at 08:10
Post# 957741 , Reply# 4   9/16/2017 at 09:14 by iej (Ireland)        
Miele Ireland site

I would assume that this is the machine ?

www.miele.ie/professional/washin...

Or, a variant of it.


Post# 957744 , Reply# 5   9/16/2017 at 09:29 by circuspeanut (Portland ME)        
Miele Ireland model

hi lej:
Very close -- it's this exact one, I believe, on the UK site (can't find it on the Miele.ie site):

PW 6065 [EL LP OS - 3 AC 400V 50Hz 16A 4,2kW]


CLICK HERE TO GO TO circuspeanut's LINK


Post# 957750 , Reply# 6   9/16/2017 at 10:12 by circuspeanut (Portland ME)        
Not oddball, true!

hi lej,

Apologies for calling it "oddball." I should have said "non-standard variant" as Miele does. :)

That's swell news about the DC motor vis-a-vis heating elements, if it's applicable to this machine, thank you! Of course this is all pending actually having the machine in my hands and opening it up to see in person.

Clearly Miele USA is unhappy about supporting this conversion which would void any warranty and make them liable; however since I'm not the original owner and the machine is 9 years old albeit unused, it's very unlikely a warranty would apply in any case. They are stickers for the rules and likely won't allow me to have any of the internal wiring documentation, thus I'm a bit on my own.

I promise I won't make a move without my professional electrician carrying out and approving all the work. Our laundry is in an open, unfinished basement which makes it easier to run whatever new wiring will be necessary. We recently had to have the electric fully replaced in our 120-year-old house and there's lots of room on the new breaker panel for higher amperage protection. It's very well grounded as this is a historic wooden structure and we want to be safe.

(I would happily use 3-phase current with this washer but it's completely unavailable in my area outside of a few select industrial areas. Some new-construction residential suburbs in the US have it, particularly in the south, but I live in creaky old New England.)

Oh! Also, I've lived in Germany many years -- thus my love of all things Miele -- and am bilingual in case anybody has the info in German only, no problem.

--> You all have been most generous, thank you! In exchange for all your lovely help, I stand ready to walk anyone through completely rehabbing a 1949 O'Keefe & Merritt gas stove, from pilot tubes to thermostat to insulation. It's a beaut, allow me to show it off:


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Post# 957756 , Reply# 7   9/16/2017 at 11:35 by circuspeanut (Portland ME)        
Thank you thank you!!

Hi RichNZ:

I believe this is exactly what I've been looking for. You are a god among men. Many many thanks!

I will keep you posted with whatever I learn when I get the machine in my hands.


Post# 957766 , Reply# 8   9/16/2017 at 12:57 by iej (Ireland)        

I'm not sure the info on the Miele Ireland site is correct about the rating btw.

13amp amp single phase is usual here due to 13amp plugs.

However, three phase is usual 10 or 16amp per phase. I've never seen 13amp ratings for it before.


Post# 958433 , Reply# 9   9/21/2017 at 09:45 by bewitched (Italy)        

according to the pamphlet i have the pw6065 can be modified to 220v/50hz single phase. miele use to put schematics inside all its machines. these are inside small sealed packages and accessible just removing the top cover. mains frequency can usually be changed entering the service mode and choosing the right country and frequency.

Post# 958520 , Reply# 10   9/21/2017 at 21:54 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

askolover's profile picture

There are a few on ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Miele-PW6065-Lit...

 

I would love to have one of them myself at half the price of a new one that's set up properly for our voltage.  But if it could be switched, that's a whole 'nother ballgame!


Post# 958535 , Reply# 11   9/22/2017 at 00:40 by bewitched (Italy)        

Here are schematics for pw6065 220v 50hz single phase, 400v three phase and american standard 208v 60 hz

Post# 958536 , Reply# 12   9/22/2017 at 00:42 by bewitched (Italy)        



Post# 958537 , Reply# 13   9/22/2017 at 00:42 by bewitched (Italy)        



Post# 958548 , Reply# 14   9/22/2017 at 03:21 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

askolover's profile picture

It's been a while since I worked in electronics and electricity but it looks doable.


Post# 958641 , Reply# 15   9/22/2017 at 19:37 by aamassther (Hendersonville, NC )        

aamassther's profile picture
@bewitched, thanks for posting the electricals! I’m going to file these away with the service manuals.

Post# 959395 , Reply# 16   9/27/2017 at 08:40 by circuspeanut (Portland ME)        

hi Askolover,

Yes! That is (I'm pretty sure) the same model machine as the one I just bought. I emailed the auctioneer to see if I can find out what their history is -- definitely looks marine in origin, as is mine. If s/he has any information on the rewiring for domestic use, I'll pass it along here.

If this turns out well, these machines would be a nice benefit for those of us living in port towns. :)



Post# 959403 , Reply# 17   9/27/2017 at 09:52 by circuspeanut (Portland ME)        

hi bewitched,

THANK YOU! This is exactly what I was seeking. Do you happen to have the key to these diagrams also? (The labels for what number designates which part.) I speak German so it can be in German.

Thank you so very much, I will forward these to my electrician.


Post# 959492 , Reply# 18   9/27/2017 at 18:56 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Rating plate

launderess's profile picture
Can be seen in this auction listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Miele-PW-6101-We...





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