Thread Number: 72483
/ Tag: Modern Dishwashers
How much effort to maintain new dishwashers vs old? |
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Post# 957777   9/16/2017 at 15:26 (2,384 days old) by AmyofEscobar (oregon)   |   | |
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I have an inkling of an idea as to what advice I'll get on this issue, but I thought I'd ask!
Much frustration today as my vintage Kitchenaid has over filled now 3 times, and other ailments have assaulted it. The idea was to get a vintage dishwasher for ease of repair when things DO go wrong, but I'm beginning to rethink that idea. Let's take "energy efficiency" off the table here, and let's talk maintenance. I don't know which models are the beesknees right now, but how often are you guys repairing your modern machines? And for those of you with newer machines that are real troopers, how much did you pay initially? I simply can't fathom paying a grand for a dishwasher, and I can barely swallow my gulps thinking about half a grand. Also, are there any new machines with mechanical controls? (For those wondering about the vintage machine, there's another thread I've tasked my husband with reviving in case our issues are fixable. He was the op some months ago) |
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Post# 957779 , Reply# 1   9/16/2017 at 16:10 (2,384 days old) by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )   |   | |
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Buy a 10 year old kitchen aid dishwasher, pretty much once every 5 year repair. New dishwashers will go 5-10 years but are terrible performers |
Post# 957783 , Reply# 2   9/16/2017 at 16:43 (2,384 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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well, you can't exactly name that in an instant.....variable factors.....
Kitchen Aids do very well, vintage as well as modern ones......I got a TallTub KA, never used for 75.00 in stainless.....and found an exact spare on CL for Free.... Whirlpool/PowerClean and Kenmore/Ultrawash are great performers as well.....I bought this convertible one brand new in 1988, only needing a wash module in all this time, minimal cost with the help of JohnL.......and again, found an exact spare on CL for 25.00..... shop around like I did, you never know what will turn up.....but if you can find a unit inexpensive for now, and then keep an eye out for a spare/parts machine.....you should be good to go for a long time.... CLICK HERE TO GO TO Yogitunes's LINK |
Post# 957786 , Reply# 3   9/16/2017 at 17:04 (2,384 days old) by AmyofEscobar (oregon)   |   | |
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You mean like these?
www.facebook.com/marketpl... www.facebook.com/marketplace/ite... www.facebook.com/marketplace/ite... What about the control panels? How likely will they die on me? |
Post# 957788 , Reply# 5   9/16/2017 at 17:36 (2,384 days old) by dubguy (Dublin)   |   | |
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I have a Siemens (part of BSH - Bosch Siemens Hausgerate) dishwasher, approx 6/7 years old. Flawless service so far and spotlessly clean dishes every time. Very efficient also |
Post# 957791 , Reply# 6   9/16/2017 at 17:56 (2,384 days old) by brucelucenta ()   |   | |
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New appliances are "NEW" and old one's are "OLD". Why would ANYONE want an appliance that is over 10 years old as a daily driver is INSANE! |
Post# 957798 , Reply# 7   9/16/2017 at 18:47 (2,384 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 957800 , Reply# 8   9/16/2017 at 18:59 (2,384 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)   |   | |
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Got you beat Glenn. My Whirlpool gas stove, dishwasher and refrigerator are going on 23 years old and still work perfect. As does my 1984 Maytag washer and dryer. If one of them died, I will go back to the same appliance dealer and buy new. Not because I want to but am not messing with fixing little crap any more.
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Post# 957802 , Reply# 9   9/16/2017 at 19:08 (2,384 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 957833 , Reply# 10   9/16/2017 at 22:33 (2,384 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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To be honest, and since I put in about ten BOL a year and replace/repair them, you're going to get about five years to seven out of modern dishwashers.
The vintage are vastly more reliable. The BOL Amanas wash quite well and are very reliable compared to the higher end stuff - Whirlpool has learned how to make decent dishwashers. On a side note, except for the microwave, nothing in our kitchen was built after 1984 and the stove and refrigerator are in their fifties. |
Post# 957858 , Reply# 11   9/17/2017 at 10:44 (2,383 days old) by AmyofEscobar (oregon)   |   | |
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Panthera, 5 to 7 years for BOL dishwashers right? I can't believe every tier and brand has that lifespan. What about folks like Bosch and Miele?
Side note, the rusty clamp on my hose snapped off, which is why it had problems... THIS time. Whew. But damn it if I don't love having those dishes clean in a snappy 30 minutes. It is heaven to have some Hobart in your kitchen when u cook as much as I do. |
Post# 957862 , Reply# 12   9/17/2017 at 11:34 (2,383 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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As far as my experience goes, I've not really seen a big difference in maintenance and reliability among new or old appliances, from my sampling of family and friends.
All their dishwashers, and my family's, have gone on average, about 12 years, with maybe 1-2 small or moderate repairs. Dishwashers from the early 2000s REALLY took a bad hit when the phosphate formulations went away. That's when machines got more energy conscious, and the smaller passages and pumps, extra filters, etc, could not handle the build-up when the phosphates went away. That's when WP chassis machines, like the Point Voyager, really took a beating and started clogging, and having poor results in the top racks. My parents' older GE TT with the mesh screen on the floor, had constant screen clogging issues. So those took periodic cleaning. WP machines had their chopper screens clogging with gunk. But once the formulations finally got better, those problems seem all but gone now. And good performance is back on those older machines. The new NEW machines today are more manual filter-based. GE machines require regular filter cup cleaning every 2-8 weeks, depending on your usage. I clean the cup out on my PDT720 1-2x a month. WP's filter cup machines are far more easy to take care of, requiring filter cup cleaning only 1-2x a YEAR. Same with Bosch I believe. For Samsung, I've heard their regular maintenance is commonly low as well. However, my neighbors' Samsung dw had a drain pump die at 3yrs old, and the OEM part was NLA. So a repair man jerry rigged a Frigidaire drain pump on it for them. |
Post# 958147 , Reply# 15   9/19/2017 at 13:50 (2,381 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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My WP side x side fridge is 13 yrs old (2 small repairs)
WP range is 13 yo no repairs Over the hood WP microwave is 13 yrs old no repairs and it gets used A LOT Dishwasher is Maytag and 3.5 yrs old no repairs (knock on wood) WP washer/dryer are 12.5 yrs old (no repairs on dryer) Duet had board replaced it's 2nd yr. Water heater is 13 yrs old no repairs. I think it's A/O Smith or something like that My Trane all electric heat pump is a different story - the first 5 yrs of living here, I felt like something went wrong every year....first it was a capacitor, then the coolant was leaking and that was repaired, then the compressor died (it was under warranty for parts but not labor. (all of this happened having preventative maintenance done twice yearly. As soon as I stopped preventative maintenance and decided just to keep the filters clean, nothing has gone wrong with it in years. |
Post# 958184 , Reply# 19   9/19/2017 at 17:49 (2,381 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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It really depends on what your definition of "perform" is.
There are countless amounts of evidence in this forum of people with modern machines made after 2015, that clean dishes extremely well. They wash, they sanitize, they even dry. They DO take longer to do it. So if taking too much time; more than you like, is "not performing well." Well...your opinion is noted. But if you're quantifiably saying that modern machines cannot wash dishes as well, to a fully clean state, as a machine from 10-20 years ago, you are mistaken. |
Post# 958191 , Reply# 21   9/19/2017 at 18:24 (2,381 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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I regard a dishwasher which doesn't even last for 10 years as a piece of trash. So, no - most modern dishwashers do not perform. They're junk.
Now, a higher-end Bosch or a Miele or a vintage GE Potscrubber with the orbital arm are worth it. The rest? Whatever, dude. If you don't mind pre-scrubbing and post-scrubbing and waiting for hour after hour for the thing to splash two drops of water around and then think about it, sure, go for it.
I install a lot of BOL Amana dishwashers. They clean very well and last about as long in rental kitchens as high-end GE. It's pointless to spend money on KA, it's nothing but a rebadged Whirlpool.
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Post# 958194 , Reply# 22   9/19/2017 at 19:11 (2,381 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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I have a new BOL Whirlpool dishwasher and I love it! I only use the 1 hour cycle, that really is 60 mins. and I add the heated dry for an additional 20 mins., or a total of 80 mins. per load. I run full, mixed loads evry 2 or 3 days and the only things I rinse first are the cereal/salad bowls and pots and pans. Other wise every thing goes in the way it left the table, sans the big chunks.
And the dishes come out spotless and dry, except for items that don't drain well, the same as any other dishwasher. I really can't see the point of these high end dishwashers, except the exterior style I guess. Our last dishwasher was a MOL GE that only lasted just under 2 years before it was going to cost more to repair than replace. And it took almost 3 hours to complete a normal cycle with temp boost. The new Whirlpool gets plenty hot. I run the hot water at the sink until its hot before I press start and when the cycle is done those dishes very hot, the silverware can burn you. Oh, and it uses just over 7.87 gals of water for a 1 hour cycle, not that much extra. The Heavy cycle uses 7.4, and Normal 2.4 to 7.4, I don't think 2.4 gals would do a very good job. Anyway, thats my experience with new dishwashers. Eddie |
Post# 958198 , Reply# 23   9/19/2017 at 20:39 (2,381 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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Post# 958202 , Reply# 24   9/19/2017 at 21:06 (2,381 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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I know and they are great value for the money! No bells and whistles, not a lot to go wrong. Time will tell as to the longevity, but I have a feeling it will be a keeper for a while.
Eddie This post was last edited 09/19/2017 at 22:19 |
Post# 958204 , Reply# 25   9/19/2017 at 21:18 (2,381 days old) by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )   |   | |
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Do you have a model # for this Amana? |
Post# 958205 , Reply# 26   9/19/2017 at 21:23 (2,381 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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I don't know what the Amana model number is but the link below is for the Whirlpool that I have. I paid $279.00 on sale.
Eddie CLICK HERE TO GO TO ea56's LINK |
Post# 958207 , Reply# 28   9/19/2017 at 21:50 (2,381 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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Post# 958208 , Reply# 29   9/19/2017 at 21:50 (2,381 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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I have the portable version of Eddie's Whirlpool dishwasher and will attest it cleans well and is a no-nonsense machine. I tried both the Normal and Heavy cycles, but the 1-hr. cycle rocks. I'd say its weak point on the 1-hr. cycle is drying, even when using heated dry. The portable version is as loud as a riot---which I HATE---since the kitchen in my apartment is open to the living room. Maybe the built-in is a bit quieter due to being surrounded by cabinets.
Honestly, if the sound level was 45 db or less, I'd recommend it as a great budget-line machine. Aside: I'm still amazed there are two active Eugenes on this site. There are never two people named Eugene anywhere. Am I right, other Eugene? |
Post# 958213 , Reply# 32   9/19/2017 at 22:00 (2,381 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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Post# 958312 , Reply# 33   9/20/2017 at 13:34 (2,380 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
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I've had good luck with our Bosch dishwashers. My mom's one was purchased in 2006 and mine was made in 2010 - neither ever needed a repair (both are German-made). Because they heater is 230V, the cold fill gets up to temp quickly. A 158°F Pots & Pans double-wash, triple-rinse and dry cycle takes 90 minutes.
Am currently using a countertop Bosch model that has been in and out of storage since I got it in 1993. No repairs on that one either. |
Post# 966250 , Reply# 34   11/5/2017 at 18:25 (2,334 days old) by 48bencix (Sacramento CA)   |   | |
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The Whirlpool WDF330PAHW is available Brand New for $175 on Sacramento Craigslist. I am tempted, however I would like nylon racks. I suppose for the price I should not be pickey. CLICK HERE TO GO TO 48bencix's LINK on Sacramento Craigslist |
Post# 966331 , Reply# 36   11/6/2017 at 02:28 (2,334 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND)   |   | |
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I am in support of new dishwashers with filtration systems instead of chopper assemblies.
I'll get it out of the way, I will always recommend a Miele dishwasher over anything that is made. There are no ifs about it. I have yet to be disappointed by them. goo.gl/photos/McdPVWrhPmCv5U7d7... That being said... Depending on what your must haves are, a new dishwasher will be around that 1k-1500 price point. I would not own a 3 or 5 series Bosch. We have had over 70 repair calls on them just in 2017. If look at a German appliance and it does NOT say Made in Germany on it, DO NOT BUY IT. I also don't know that I would own a new Maytag with that crooked/tapered rack. We get a lot of complaints about loading things in the bottom rack. We've had to take two out because the owner's plates simply would not fit in the unit. That being said Maytag has put a powerdry option on one of their models, the 8979 that adds fan-assisted drying. I do like the Whirlpool WDTA50 dishwasher, it blends nicely with any package that I sell, regardless of the manufacture. The Kitchenaids with the Clean Water wash system are going to have a hybrid wash system between the point voyager and whatever they call the new filter system. I say that because it has the larger wash pump but a self cleaning mesh filter system that back flushes like a swimming pool filter. KitchenAid is also adding back fan-assisted drying. The only thing is I don't like how flimsy the tubs are on the new KitchenAids. For a $1k plus dishwasher, it shouldn't feel cheap. After rebuilding a Frigidaire dishwasher for my mom, and servicing a 7 year old Electrolux, I am really liking their designs. I will say that I probably wouldn't look at the units that have a plastic filter that has the wash arm support in part of the filter assembly. The way those units are designed, all of the debris is swept by the arms to the center of the tub and pushed directly into the wash pump intake. The new units that have the filters away from the wash arms clean much better. They also have inline heaters built into the motors or separate units in the lines. They also have a fan-assisted dry cycle. The new units with the better filters don't have exposed heat elements, so no real heated dry system, just a higher rinse temp. The Electrolux dishwashers have what seem to be some of the sturdiest racks I've ever seen in a dishwasher. IF I didn't have my Miele dishwashers, I would probably purchase an Electrolux dishwasher. I really like the way they are designed. They are heavy and feel solid. They are pretty impressive. I am not a fan of GE dishwashers. We either have a lot of control panels go out or everyone seems to snap the latch sensor arms off their dishwashers. LG dishwashers were a dud because we had a lot of failures early on and didn't have great support from the distributor. The distributor changed, but so did warranty processes and we ABSOLUTELY hate working with LG to get warranty claims through. Samsung... The water wall dishwashers are growing on me.... I don't like their dishwashers that aren't water wall and its mainly because they aren't built by Samsung. We sell a lot of Asko dishwashers in our other store, but thats because the lady that pushes them there has one and she thinks the same thing about them as I do Miele. As far as budget goes, if it was absolutely necessary to stay under the $500 limit, I would probably say go with a whirlpool/amana. You aren't going to find something better for less. To the longevity thing... That is all in a matter of how you take care of your appliances. If you check the filters regularly, use the hottest cycle often enough and don't OVER SOAP the machines, they should last a long time. They say cleaning power and cleanability is a trifecta, so is machine maintenance. Don't do something that will over tax the system on a regular basis, don't do something that will cause buildup of debris or detergent, and keep things hygienic (let things air out and clean parts and surfaces). |
Post# 966345 , Reply# 38   11/6/2017 at 07:02 (2,334 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )   |   | |
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My Custom 21 Kitchen Aid is done in a hour or less. |
Post# 966347 , Reply# 40   11/6/2017 at 07:15 (2,334 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )   |   | |
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Appliances, all my experiences with them have been bad!My NEW stereo is a 1965 GE,I play only vinyl, none of that new stuff for me, If I had a repair man close by there would be a round tube color tv in my living room....I could go on and on! |
Post# 966351 , Reply# 41   11/6/2017 at 07:39 (2,333 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )   |   | |
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Westinghouse toaster, and vacuumed with my 1964 Compact vacuum.....I'm REALLY insane! |
Post# 966390 , Reply# 43   11/6/2017 at 11:42 (2,333 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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this topic seems to be a loaded question of sorts.....
and a lot of factors to consider.... between one machine being better than another.... a normally great machine could be troublesome, while a lesser rated machine could really perform well... it also depends when picking an older or vintage machine, what condition is it in to start with.... granted a number of us have found some low use machines.....as well as ones still in the box, unused for decades... and whats your mechanical knowledge or background to maintain it yourself... |
Post# 966400 , Reply# 44   11/6/2017 at 12:40 (2,333 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 966415 , Reply# 45   11/6/2017 at 14:01 (2,333 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)   |   | |
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New appliances are "NEW" and old one's are "OLD". Why would ANYONE want an appliance that is over 10 years old as a daily driver is INSANE!
I wouldn't have seen that post had so many members not marked it as offensive, thank you all for doing that. As for you Bruce, thanks for insulting a large portion of the membership here. If it wasn't for many of us using 10 to 70 year old major appliances as daily drivers, this website you're spouting out on wouldn't even exist. Personally almost all my daily drivers are 50+ years old along, does that make me insane too? I do have a few token 21st century models, but that's mainly for the novelty and rarely use them. None of them are so much better in performance than the best of the vintage machines. You have the nerve to tell someone "Nope, wrong on all counts", when it's clear to most of us here that your "all counts" is nothing more than your opinion, not fact. You really lose us when you talk about vintage KitchenAid dishwashers being anything less than stellar in the performance department, those of us that use them daily know better. You may have had one bad experience, that was totally valid but that doesn't make it so for the rest of us. I've seen you post things that are clearly wrong, questionable or blown way out of proportion to make your point on machines I and many others are currently using. There is no proof in long ago memories, there is concrete proof in using the machine the evening before. |
Post# 966456 , Reply# 47   11/6/2017 at 18:52 (2,333 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND)   |   | |
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Post# 966458 , Reply# 48   11/6/2017 at 18:57 (2,333 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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Post# 971997 , Reply# 51   12/6/2017 at 17:39 (2,303 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )   |   | |
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I see, I was not the only person who got ticked off . Nobody will ever tell me that vintage Kitchen aid dishwashers suck and if they do will they can go to hell. I have had 5 or more and they all have been by far the best performing machines I have used. I have a 8 year old Smeg dishwasher and it has been good no problems at all and its Made in Italy. I also have a G.E. 1200 Pot-scrubber dishwasher that is probably around 24 years old. They both have these Orbital wash arms. The Smeg is set up like the Frigidare Orbit wash and the G.E. has two small arms attached to the end of the main arm with the tower and it washes like hell. That G.E. is rare I cant find parts for it at all hardly but when it works it is a hell of a machine..
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Post# 972021 , Reply# 52   12/6/2017 at 19:16 (2,303 days old) by washman (o)   |   | |
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I'm insane. I freely admit it. |
Post# 972033 , Reply# 53   12/6/2017 at 20:08 (2,303 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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We have had several KA, both the real Hobart and the, well, Whirlpool version. Our 15 (portable) does clean extraordinarily well and is all original. It, like all vintage KA dishwashers, demands considerable attention to detail in loading. I've figured out through the years how to load both racks such that everything comes out spotless - but I will not pretend for one second that it's fun or remotely like loading a RR Maytag or any Potscrubber or vintage Miele. In the remotest. As to the other KAs (the real ones, not the Whirlpools), yeah, well, OK, it's like this. Yes, they use very good components and great enamel. With the occasional exception of upside down dispensers (I'll never grasp that one if I live to be 400 years old) they were very well thought out. But - they still required enormous effort to load right in order to get things clean. Yes, if you did it right, they worked perfectly. But, please, guys and gals - don't pretend you have the freedom in just throwing things into one such as a Twenty-Eight Hundred offers. Even Consumer Reports, who automatically crowned KA Queen of everything, admitted that. Through clinched teeth. Nothing I've ever used matches an RR Maytag for flexibility, followed closely by a Potscrubber with multi-orbital arm (when a whirligig works, that, too). OK, so the whole durability thing. Here's where we get into discussions. I think it's perfectly fair for me, a dude who replaces appliances used in (now) over 100 rentals regularly to compare and contrast. The BOL AMANA which Whirlpool has had on the market for some time now just plain hold up as well as do the extra specially expensive BOSCH and the TOL Whirlpool stuff. The mechanical Hotpoint/GEs last forever, but their cleaning performance was castrated by the decision to shrink the water level below their designed capabilities (which were not adjusted.) Throw an extra 2 liters of hot water into the wash cycle of a new Potscrubber (yes, I know they don't call them that anymore, but they are) at the beginning of the cycle and, wow! It'll clean enormously better.
I loved my Mieles in Germany. They were outstanding. I love my Potscrubbers here because of two reasons: 1) I refuse, absolutely refuse to prerinse or prescrub. 2) You can just throw stuff in and it comes out clean without spending half an hour checking the photos (yes, I did) you made up showing the 'keep-out' zones and placements you need to get equally clean dishes out of a real KA.
As to Whirlpool - there's no questions about it, their design really and truly has reached the point where they work and work well. I'll never be a fan of them, but a dishwasher which can stand up in a rental for five to seven years is a good machine. |
Post# 972040 , Reply# 54   12/6/2017 at 20:42 (2,303 days old) by arris (Rochester New York)   |   | |
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I'd purchased a Kenmore elite dishwasher 5 yrs ago, to replace my 94 kenmore ultra wash dishwasher, I hated the new one.... took over an hr in pots and pans, dishes would not get clean, nothing was dry, I won't leave any appliance running when either not home or going to bed, I got a KDI-18 a few years ago, it's the BEST dishwasher I've ever had !!!! 20 minutes in the normal cycle everything is washed and CLEAN, another 30-40 everything is dry.... an added plus is I like the sound it makes when washing..... like that of sitting in the back section of a plane... great dishwasher !!!
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