Thread Number: 72601
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
kenmore direct drive lint |
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Post# 959139 , Reply# 1   9/25/2017 at 22:08 (2,375 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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well this is a loaded question, and no rhyme or reason as to why one person/machine will get one set of results, and another will not...
lets stick with the basics, and your choice to execute them.... any machine with a lint filter, no matter if its a self clean, manual clean, or just plain removed....doesn't affect anything....mine are just there for looks, and removed when using the machine... people have been line and/or machine drying for years.... linting usually comes from: overloading not enough detergent excessive wash time excessive wash speed not separating lint givers from lint receivers and usually falls to, the more you agitate, the more lint you are creating... washing something like towels, yeah, your going to get lint......the next load could be darks, and you may have a residue of lint from the past load transferring to another.... and there may be a far chance, since you switched out the tub, but that the agitator may have a jagged/rough edge or two, causing items to snag, creating linting... I goofed a few times in forgetting, in a TLer, you have separate all loads, in a FLer, I can mix loads, no issues..... my mother will leave Kleenex in her pockets.....in a TLer, it is shredded all over the load......in a FLer, it comes back out as one full piece.... your mileage may vary.... |
Post# 959229 , Reply# 2   9/26/2017 at 09:42 (2,375 days old) by philcobendixduo (San Jose)   |   | |
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I have the exact same issue with lint but ONLY when the "neutral drain" fails and the washer "spin drains".
This usually happens during the "gentle" cycle and/or with loads that are very light in weight. I don't know if the collected lint is somehow discharged into the tub during "spin drain" or if the action of the water swirling around as it "spin drains" causes lint to be dislodged from the outer tub. Whatever the case, I then find the finished load has a lot of lint etc. and I then have to either dry it in the dryer or, after line drying, use a lint roller on the items after they are dry. |
Post# 959242 , Reply# 3   9/26/2017 at 11:08 (2,375 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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Post# 959302 , Reply# 4   9/26/2017 at 16:27 (2,374 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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Post# 959311 , Reply# 5   9/26/2017 at 17:22 (2,374 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 959341 , Reply# 6   9/26/2017 at 20:57 (2,374 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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The problem is the lack of a neutral drain, as we all know or should by now a neutral drain is superior for getting dirt in lint out of clothing rather than spinning it back into the clothing.
We get several service calls like this every year and we have to replace the transmission to get it to neutral drain again because of the complaints of excessive linting. As all of us appliance collectors know Whirlpool orignly built this washer with a spin and drain system and was forced to redesign it with the neutral drain because of complaints of linting. All spin drain washers with preforted baskets have had trouble with excessive lifting including GE filter flow Maytag dependable cares and Frigidaire 1-18s. Usually people that line dry clothing notice this more often. John L |
Post# 959346 , Reply# 8   9/26/2017 at 22:12 (2,374 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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The problem is the lack of a neutral drain, as we all know or should by now a neutral drain is superior for getting dirt in lint out of clothing rather than spinning it back into the clothing.
We get several service calls like this every year and we have to replace the transmission to get it to neutral drain again because of the complaints of excessive linting. As all of us appliance collectors know Whirlpool orignly built this washer with a spin and drain system and was forced to redesign it with the neutral drain because of complaints of linting. All spin drain washers with preforted baskets have had trouble with excessive lifting including GE filter flow Maytag dependable cares and Frigidaire 1-18s. Usually people that line dry clothing notice this more often. John L |
Post# 959400 , Reply# 9   9/27/2017 at 09:34 (2,374 days old) by pumpkina (California)   |   | |
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Thanks, John L. What year and starting with what model did Whirlpool convert from spin and dry to neutral drain? Also, is there an easy way to determine if a particular unit has neutral drain? |
Post# 959404 , Reply# 10   9/27/2017 at 10:14 (2,374 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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All Whirlpool top load washers ever built did a neutral drain before attempting to spin with the exception of the first direct drives from late 1981 through sometime in 1984 before they realized they could not get away with taking the shortcut but most other manufactures had managed to get away with.
Even Speed Queen today makes neutral dream washers for markets like Australia where many people use line drying. The next generation of Speed Queen top load washers in the United states will also do a neutral drain. John L. |
Post# 959465 , Reply# 12   9/27/2017 at 16:18 (2,373 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)   |   | |
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My parents had a maytag top loader that always did a spin drain for the wash and rinses. Why was lint not a problem in that machine? |
Post# 959493 , Reply# 13   9/27/2017 at 18:56 (2,373 days old) by mhorn (mount bethel pa)   |   | |
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thanks for all the good advise, no substitute for experience, special thanks to john l. do you suggest i take trans apart and find issue try to fix with a kit,, or throw in complete trans,,, and also should i change the clutch lining,,, thanks |
Post# 959528 , Reply# 14   9/28/2017 at 04:43 (2,373 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 959536 , Reply# 15   9/28/2017 at 06:30 (2,373 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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Louis beat me to it, but he is right, if there isn't a problem, don't go looking for it!...
you can also take the same machine, same load, but two different operators, and still end up with different results... way too many variables to conclude what may or may not cause lint for one, and not for another... |
Post# 959554 , Reply# 16   9/28/2017 at 08:05 (2,373 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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Has to do with the existence and location of a lint filter.
Maytag's filter is either in the barrel of the agitator, or a flat screen embedded in the wash tub. Lint on the screen under the tub would be less likely to cling during the pause and start of spin. Also, the spin torque with a full tub of water may play into it. Maytag's belt slippage keeps the tub slow when full where a WP DD clutch is a little more grab and go. In the WP design, the filter fingers would hold onto the lint during neutral drain. Casting it away during spin for flushing down the drain. Spinning those fingers in a full tub of water would certainly cast that lint back into the load. Malcolm |
Post# 959577 , Reply# 17   9/28/2017 at 10:13 (2,373 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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Post# 959616 , Reply# 18   9/28/2017 at 14:14 (2,372 days old) by brucelucenta ()   |   | |
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I think you are right on the money! |
Post# 959644 , Reply# 19   9/28/2017 at 15:41 (2,372 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)   |   | |
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MRB's explanation makes sense |
Post# 959650 , Reply# 20   9/28/2017 at 15:53 (2,372 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Actually I'm not so sure about that. The filter is under the drum right? When the machine starts spinning fast like supposed, it would mean the water moves outward, especially in the inner basket. If the lint would be redeposited on the laundry, the lint would have to get back through the tiny holes in the wash basket while there are centrifugal forces moving the water outward through those same holes. That doesn't make sense to me.
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Post# 959665 , Reply# 21   9/28/2017 at 16:54 (2,372 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 959667 , Reply# 22   9/28/2017 at 16:57 (2,372 days old) by brucelucenta ()   |   | |
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You are plenty smart and can articulate that well too. |
Post# 959736 , Reply# 23   9/28/2017 at 20:34 (2,372 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 959753 , Reply# 24   9/28/2017 at 22:30 (2,372 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 959937 , Reply# 25   9/30/2017 at 16:23 (2,370 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Honestly, I don't think its the neutral drain but the ultra fast, short strokes which are the root cause of it. I remember over and over being lectured by Sears employees to never buy a single speed Kenmore because it will "chew up" clothes. Sears made sure the normal cycle never dropped a single high speed agitation sequence. In fact at one point in time even Whirlpool badged machines would switch to slow speed about half way to 2/3 through the normal cycles.
At first I never believed Kenmore relabeling the delicate cycle to normal (only thinking it was marketing 'hey, we have a heavy duty cycle others do not') but having used the Heavy Duty cycle thinking I could outsmart Sears and a Whirlpool which did fast on the normal cycle; I can confidently say that Whirlpool machines have to the the roughest by far on the market. Slow speed IS normal speed for a DD. Also for some reason new VMW Whirlpool agitator washers will pulse the agitator while filling. Maytag DC on the other hand had extremely delicate agitation on high speed and relied more on water movement. Simply put the machines were not as rough and thus less linting. New Speed Queens will most likely neutral drain because the design forces a separate pump- that and Id imagine spin draining would cause the items to bunch up on one side. |
Post# 959938 , Reply# 26   9/30/2017 at 16:26 (2,370 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 959965 , Reply# 27   9/30/2017 at 20:04 (2,370 days old) by CleanteamofNY ((Monroe, New York)   |   | |
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There is logic to the DD linting problems. The holes at the bottom of the tub near the agitator allowing wash/rinse water to be recirculated back into the inner tub with the loose lint being dislodged off the filter during the spin/drain cycle.
As the load is spun, the water pressure at the base of the tub is increasing while the tub is picking up speed, this is forcing water to backwash the lint filter and as the water level getting lower during pump out, lint is being reintroduced back onto the load from the holes at the bottom of the tub.
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Post# 960113 , Reply# 28   10/1/2017 at 21:23 (2,369 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Larry, the lint will not come off the lint filter and go up through the bottom basket holes for several reasons
1 this washer does not have a basket mounted filter.
2 the spinning water is being thrown out the side and bottom holes.
3 the amount of lint collected by these basket mounted filters is almost as insignificant as what is collected on a MT washers lint filter.
John L. |
Post# 960852 , Reply# 29   10/5/2017 at 19:56 (2,365 days old) by CleanteamofNY ((Monroe, New York)   |   | |
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