Thread Number: 72640  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
I hate Brastemp, but...
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Post# 959772   9/29/2017 at 04:34 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

Being an Electrolux employee for "a few" years, it's easily understandable my feelings about Brastemp (Whirlpool in Brazil) is not mixed at all... I HATE everything that is Brastemp after Whirlpool bought the company.


However, i must admit i am impressed.

Miniwash drum with an agitator that "agitates" without moving the whole drum? I almost fainted when I saw that.

A few weeks ago I've already asked our partner company in Brazil to toss one of those Brastemps in one of the Nina or Mega containers. Yesterday i watched this video... I'm not only impressed. I'm shocked! They did it! WTF! They did it, yes, they did it!

2 drums, 2 loads, 2 different detergents, nothing mixing.... (well, brastemp alerts that some water from the mini drum may may end up spraying on the clothes in the main drum)










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Post# 959785 , Reply# 1   9/29/2017 at 07:15 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Everything old is new again! Was it Hotpoint that offered a similar two-tub / two loads at once machine--albeit briefly--for the US market back in the early 1970s?

As someone who often washes smallish loads, the two-tub design is attractive. Having said that, I have no storage for the removable tub in the laundry area, nor do I have two dryers to prevent the back-up that would occur, virtually negating the time-saving factor.

Still, I love the idea of such a washer. Thanks for sharing the video!


Post# 959788 , Reply# 2   9/29/2017 at 07:40 by henene4 (Germany)        
Nothing mixing

How about draining? As far as I see the top tub drains by spindrain through some holes which in turn goes onto the main load. Not good if you think you can use bleach in the top basket and (AFAIK) Brasil uses a lot of bleach for whites as they are cold wash only for the most part.

But yeah, the idea is interesting.


Post# 959814 , Reply# 3   9/29/2017 at 11:13 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

The water goes straight to the top gap (drum-tub)
Brastemp says "some" water may mix...


Post# 959826 , Reply# 4   9/29/2017 at 12:23 by henene4 (Germany)        
Oh

That is surprisingly smart.

Post# 959828 , Reply# 5   9/29/2017 at 12:41 by brucelucenta (tulsa, oklahoma)        

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Yes, you have to hand it to them. This is pretty ingenious of them even if something similar has been done before. I only have heard about the Hotpoint machine from Consumer Reports when they did a short write up about it in their issue on washers of that time. I have never actually seen a Hotpoint machine like the one they reported on, but do know they existed. Makes you wonder what kind of problems they encountered with them.

Post# 959833 , Reply# 6   9/29/2017 at 13:26 by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        
Nothing new under the lid.

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That commercial itself deserves an academy award for special effects. It's wonderful to watch and Natalie Kalmus herself would have approved.

 

There are bunches of threads on the Hotpoint Duo-Load that you can find via Searchilator.  In a nutshell, the water in the mini-basket was spun/drained up and out of the basket directly into the outer cabinet (porcelain-lined and functioning as an "outer tub") where it eventually mixed with the other water on the way down to the drain.  CU practically condemned  this machine for lots of reasons that had little to do with the Duo-Load feature and more to do with many basic flaws of the Hotpoint washing machine. I think that 1969 report has been posted here also.

 

It was another grand bell and whistle designed, unintentionally, to appeal to the man of the house who was still likely in charge of all the big purchases, rather than the little woman who couldn't have cared less about being able to launder two small loads at the same time. In my experience most women of my childhood had no problem rinsing out a few items in the bathroom sink. Assembling and disassembling some big complicated TOL washing machine wouldn't have a appealed to any of the laundresses that I was aware of back then.


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Post# 959839 , Reply# 7   9/29/2017 at 15:01 by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

It's rather curious to me that the ads for the Hotpoint version, they had the white load in the lower basket and the vivid red load in the upper basket, while the Brastemp version shows exactly the reverse.

Then again, the Hotpoint machine advertised washing two loads without mixing the solutions, and Brastemp warns about possible mixing.

Anyway, some quick observations: the video from the guy testing the machine mentions that the machine fills the upper basket until it overflows (I suppose that's how it senses it's full, when the level in the lower basket starts rising again), which means one probably needs to be careful with whatever load/detergent/bleach is used in the top basket doesn't ruin the load in the bottom basket.

If you look at the cutaway from the machine advertisement, you'll see that yes, the mini basket has holes on the top for draining, just like solid tubs usually do, and yes, it does seem to throw the water over the lower basket clothes guard, but the gap between the perforated basket and the outer tub is rather small, so I would not count on wash fluids not mixing or contaminating the load in the perforated basket.

There's a point where the guy testing the machine shows the mini basket (I confess I just skimmed the video, no way I'd watch 50+ minutes of a cycle that doesn't have clothes in it) -- the basket seems to be build just like the mini baskets for Hotpoint/GE, that is, it has a center post that goes over the agitator, the only difference is that it looks like someone put a bearing on the top, so there's a coupling with the main agitator that drives the mini-agitator, while the tub is suspended and driven by the outer perforated basket. I'm not sure why the complexity, it doesn't seem to give the user any advantage over the traditional mini-basket from GE, maybe it lets Brastemp/WP say it's "innovative" instead of "copy cat" or "all that's old is new again". We'll see when more tests show up.

It's hard to tell from just the control panel, but it looks like the machine is cold-fill only and does not let the user raise the temperature, translation, cold-wash only.

The way he talks about the machine, it doesn't appear to have a spray rinse, so it's either one or two deep rinses. If the machine is as big as they say (15 kg/33 lbs), that's an awful lot of water, and even the lowest level of water seems a tad too high, which means one can't just put a couple of pounds in the big tub and wash it. In fact, the machine seems designed to require the mini basket for such small loads (there's a setting for upper/both/lower basket). This is not too different from what GE did, although women quickly got tired of having to find a place to store the mini basket and having to install it and remove it.

Henrik mentioned the use of lots of bleach -- unless things changed dramatically since 1990's, they don't do that in Brazil. As far as I'm aware of, what changed since then is that they reintroduced controlled suds formulas (from 1970's or so until 1987/88 the only controlled suds formula was Unilever's Skip, which disappeared from the late 80's until 91/92 when OMO Maquina showed up) and more formulas now have enzymes (from 66-77 we had BioPresto, BioZyma and some other brand I spaced out; then from 77-88 or so, only BioPresto). Some of the formulas have oxygen-based bleach, but a lot of Brazilians don't like the idea that clothes may fade and they also don't like to buy more than one brand/formula. In any case, yes, many people do use chlorine bleach, but not nearly as much or as often as we in USA do, Brazilians are keenly aware that chlorine bleach shortens the lifespan of clothing. Yes, I know, many Americans claim it doesn't, but it's mostly because in America clothes are expected to last for 52 wash cycles, while in Brazil they are expected to last for years. One of the favorite things for them there is to sun bleach the clothes.

Given that "extra-large" (15 lbs) washers used to already take over 10 minutes to fill up in Brazil (unless you lived in an apartment building with good water pressure), I hope people in Brazil has grown extra patient to wait for a washer which probably takes over 100 liters (~26 gallons) to fill.

Incidentally, I dunno if this is well known in Brazil or not, but Whirlpool has owned enough stock/shares of Brastemp to control everything they did since at the very least the late 60's, and it was obvious to people who had visited or lived in USA that the designs they made in Brazil were stripped down versions of outdated stuff they made in US -- in fact, my suspicion is that when a factory got too old in US and they updated it to make new models, they'd export the old factory lock, stock and barrel to South America, which was always at least a model or two behind US. So, I'm not sure when WP "bought" Brastemp, maybe we're talking about a more complete takeover, like more than 55% of the stocks/shares?

Anyway, certainly a visually interesting washer, might be fun to play with, but not something I'd like to own.

Cheers,
   -- Paulo.


Post# 959858 , Reply# 8   9/29/2017 at 18:26 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Bonus points to Ken for spot-on Natalie Kalmus reference. 👏👏👍


Post# 960006 , Reply# 9   10/1/2017 at 05:40 by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

Just watched his second video doing 2 loads at the same time, jeans in lower basket and colored clothing in upper basket.

It's more obvious in this video that the machine uses overflow from the top basket to sense it's full and the guy mentions 2 stickers warning people not to use chlorine bleach on the upper basket.

Maybe this is a good or even ideal washer for many people, but I don't think I'm in that demographic -- either way I hope they have fun with it.


Post# 960016 , Reply# 10   10/1/2017 at 07:59 by GRWasher_expert (Athens)        

Can it wash in different temperature for each basket(for example hot wash on top, cold wash on bottom)?

Post# 960017 , Reply# 11   10/1/2017 at 08:23 by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Well,

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That was a magnificently beautiful ad. Portuguese, Brazilian or the regular flavour is maddening for me - I've got enough Latin and Italian and Spanish to almost but not quite get it without subtitles, and this ad was so well done I could nearly follow!

The colours!

 

A few things. One, I don't believe for one second that 'some mixing of fluids' doesn't mean: Anything which could bleed or cause bleaching better not be in the top basket.

 

Two - It's awful pretty in the ad, but I suspect most folks who have the storage space for two washers (and, basically, that upper basket takes up the space of a second washer) would just buy two washers and have all the advantages and none of the disadvantages.

 

Still - I'd like to see one in action.


Post# 960032 , Reply# 12   10/1/2017 at 12:50 by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        
You Go Eugene!

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I'm so glad somebody appreciated that!!!!


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Post# 960039 , Reply# 13   10/1/2017 at 13:58 by brucelucenta (tulsa, oklahoma)        

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This was a very interesting post. I would never have known who Natalie Kalmus was or that Brastemp had even made such a machine. I also had never seen the Hotpoint advertisement.

Post# 960141 , Reply# 14   10/2/2017 at 03:46 by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

I knew (of) her.  Reputation as bit of a pill.

 

Now, without googling, who was Crazy Legs Kalbfuss?  Not his genealogy, just his 'career'.


Post# 960147 , Reply# 15   10/2/2017 at 05:11 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Anyone who watched the TCM channel as obsessively as I did knows about Natalie Kalmus. Her name was in the credits of nearly every Technicolor film in the 1930s-40s, much as Douglas Shearer (brother of actress Norma Shearer) was credited as Recording Director in nearly every MGM-affiliated film of the same era--regardless of how much (or how little) he was actually involved with the recording of the film.

I have absolutely no idea who Crazy Legs Kalbfuss is and in the name of fair play, will not Google him.


Post# 960303 , Reply# 16   10/2/2017 at 21:25 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

In a couple of months I'll have all details about it...

Simple... the next container shipped from brazil will have 12 spin dryers less and 2 of those Brastemps.


Revvinkevin, i need to store two washers in your basement, may I? (I will think if I'll let you play with them LOL)


Post# 960354 , Reply# 17   10/3/2017 at 03:45 by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

Kalbfuss was too close to Kalmus not to ask.  A one-time character on Rocky & Bullwinkle. 





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