Thread Number: 72750
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
2018 Speed Queen topload models |
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Post# 961239   10/7/2017 at 22:12 (2,386 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 961242 , Reply# 1   10/7/2017 at 22:41 (2,386 days old) by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )   |   | |
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It is going to have a lid lock, that locks only during spin. It’s likely going to have a bldc motor instead of a traditional split phase motor. |
Post# 961272 , Reply# 2   10/8/2017 at 01:49 (2,386 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 961275 , Reply# 3   10/8/2017 at 02:40 (2,386 days old) by agiflow2 ()   |   | |
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It's a shame that there will be a lid lock. Personal responsibility must be out of style completely nowadays.SMH |
Post# 961285 , Reply# 4   10/8/2017 at 05:12 (2,385 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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Glad both my sister and I have 2017 sets! Employed the couldn't-be-easier lid switch hack on both washers. Wonder if the 2018s will have a neutral drain, as do SQ's in other parts of the globe?
3) Timed bleach and fabric softener dispensers. Bleach should be added the last 4 minutes of the wash portion of a cycle; not during the soak/prewash or at the start of the cycle. Those stain-eating enzymes in today's detergent need time to work before bleach is introduced. Currently, you can't use fabric softener if you choose soak/prewash options because it will be dispensed into the main wash water. Likewise, softener is wasted if you choose an automatic 2nd rinse, because it would have been dispensed during the first rinse.
Was impressed that SQ added cycle flexibility and other cycle-oriented features to their series 9 machines a couple of years ago. Unfortunately, they didn't add the infrastructure (so to speak) to support those features. This post was last edited 10/08/2017 at 06:00 |
Post# 961305 , Reply# 6   10/8/2017 at 07:58 (2,385 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 961307 , Reply# 7   10/8/2017 at 07:59 (2,385 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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Eugene....
I get the detergent dispenser concept, wanting them on all machines as well.... but for times when there is not one, when adding the prewash/soak to a cycle, you are to add double the detergent at the start.... this was very effective during the belt drive years of Whirlpool's 'SuperWash'...although this only offered a short soak and a partial drain, then refilled for the main wash.... even my 1985 FilterFlo with the 'Extra Cleaning Cycle' recommends the high concentration of detergent, only one main wash for this, but two complete spin sprays and rinses follow to remove all the detergent.... |
Post# 961310 , Reply# 8   10/8/2017 at 08:51 (2,385 days old) by mtn1584 (USA)   |   | |
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Will they still fill to the top of the tub with water and have water level selections? |
Post# 961319 , Reply# 9   10/8/2017 at 09:35 (2,385 days old) by agiflow2 ()   |   | |
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Didn't the original F&P based cabrio washers use the motor to slow the tub down ? |
Post# 961322 , Reply# 10   10/8/2017 at 09:44 (2,385 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Eugene, I have a possible solution to the detergent dispensing issue with using soak/prewash and then programmed to go into the main wash. Maytag offered a solution back in the day when they first offered this feature. What about using the FS dispenser as dispenser for liquid detergent for the main wash? Although I'm not sure the FS cup could be removed for easy cleaning as was the case for Maytags.
I think John has already stated the new 2018 models will also do a neutral drain like is done in other parts of the globe. |
Post# 961325 , Reply# 11   10/8/2017 at 10:00 (2,385 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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We are going to service training on these in the next two weeks and will report back what we learn.
I am hoping for neutral drain as we are running quit a few service calls on the current TL machines with out of balance and machine walking complaints when users use too much water for the load being washed and the load goes out of balance, this was always a big part of the vibration complaints we got with MT DC machines.
I do hope they do not go to a lid lock, consumers do not like lid locks.
I would like to see in the new TL washers, dual action agitators, neutral drain and slightly bigger holes in the bottom of the wash basket, Porcelain tops on W&Ds on high end models, and better dispensers for bleach and detergent and maybe detergent as Eugene mentioned.
Overall it will be interesting, I have said for years that I would never have any interest in owning a current SQ TL washer, it is simply too crude, it is better than a MTDC washer in several important aspects, but the class act is a SQ FL washer, the FL SQ has over twice the life expectancy and just does a much better job.
If the MT DC washer was still in production and offered a 5 year full warranty it would cost every bit of $1000.00
John L. |
Post# 961333 , Reply# 14   10/8/2017 at 11:05 (2,385 days old) by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )   |   | |
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Short of getting the board wet, the speed queen control boards are nearly indestructible. Their rear main bearings are very robust, so they fail very infrequently. When it does fail, it’s a pretty easy repair. |
Post# 961361 , Reply# 16   10/8/2017 at 17:15 (2,385 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)   |   | |
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Bigger holes on the bottom.... for what? to extract LESS water during the spin? Gosh, I thought Speed Queen designers had much more technical knowledge than I have... |
Post# 961372 , Reply# 19   10/8/2017 at 18:26 (2,385 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)   |   | |
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For sand yes... i mean, the bottom... but the lower part of the walls is better to use "slots" or curved cones. |
Post# 961376 , Reply# 20   10/8/2017 at 19:16 (2,385 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Bigger holes in the bottom of the tub diffidently improve performance in terms of getting rid of heavy sediment, but can be a mixed blessing as things like bobby pins can get through if they are too large.
When GE came out with the replacement for the FF washers they had huge holes in the bottom of the plastic wash basket, and compared to the FF spin drain [ and grit&lint redepositing machines ] these new neutral drain GE washers were a huge improvement, customers loved the fact they finally had lint and streak free clothing [ GE service manuals are full of comments about the problems they had with lint and streaking complaints they had with FF washers ] GE redesigned the hole pattern in their wash baskets in the late 60s to try and cope with this problem [ they ELIMINATED most of the holes the lower half of the basket side wall ] .
The dual action was the biggest improvement in conventional agitator washers in the history of agitator washers, they improved capacity, they improved turn over and best of all reduced clothing wear and damage. It goes without saying that the Load-Sensor agitator in DC MT washers was by far the best and most effective agitator MT ever put in an automatic washer.
Note; Pumkina I will be glad to answer some of your good questions if you put a name in your profile and a year you were born.
John L. |
Post# 961378 , Reply# 21   10/8/2017 at 19:38 (2,385 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)   |   | |
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Post# 961408 , Reply# 23   10/8/2017 at 23:10 (2,385 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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My understanding is that these will no longer be allowed to deep fill, so a dual action agi will not work. From all that I have heard is that these will be some type of impeller.
I don't know what agitators SQ uses in their commercial machines, but Id imagine that a DA agi would be much more trouble prone in a commercial environment where overloading is the norm. @Combo: The very first GEs after the FF did not have full sized holes in the tub, at least the large capacity machines. It was not until a few years latter they put giant holes at the bottom of the basket. |
Post# 961439 , Reply# 24   10/9/2017 at 05:01 (2,384 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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I thought I read in Speed Queen's FAQ section that only the Normal Eco cycle would not provide a complete fill beginning in 2018. My 2017 Series 9 fills completely for the wash in all cycles, including Normal Eco (albeit that cycle has, for all intents and purposes, a cold fill no matter what temp is selected by the user).
The current agitator does a fine job, but rollover is hampered significantly by the indexing of the tub. Mine indexes nearly a quarter-turn on a full load. The load immediately rolls over much more efficiently when I grab the tub to prevent indexing. Some here claim this happens while the tub brake is being 'broken in', but over two month later, mine is still indexing like crazy. In fact, it indexes as much as a 1970s Westinghouse, which was designed to do so. The AWN542 I had a few years ago indexed a bit less than one-eighth of a turn, which was not enough to negatively affect rollover. |
Post# 961451 , Reply# 25   10/9/2017 at 06:40 (2,384 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Chet, I really dough that SQ TL washers will go to an impeller, But who knows, want to make a bet ?
I am not certain when GE went to the very large holes in the bottom of the plastic wash tub, but I have one [ super capacity dual action agitator ] now in the shop that we are restoring for the museum that has them, I guess you are correct if you think they did not have them at first, why don't you try to find out when they made this change and why? I never remember seeing an early one with small holes and we were putting transmissions in the early T models left and right, GE was giving out transmissions to anyone that would install them for the first 7 years of washer ownership.
I know they reverted to smaller holes because of pump clogging problems because the large holes allowed too much heavy sediment to settle into the tub drain hose and clog the drain pump.
Duel action agitators greatly improve turn over of large loads and therefore allow more laundry to be washed and increase water efficiency, CRs even called them the biggest advance in top loading washers in over 25 years in the early 80s.
No I have never seen them in commercial TL washers because they are so effective that manufactures do not want to encourage overloading and they are one additional thing that can wear out. [ top load washers are pretty much dead in commercial use now anyway ]
I can and almost always wash 10-12 pairs of my work jeans [ size 32W 34-36 I ] in a WP SC DD washer, A SQ will barely turn over this load and when I have tried loads like this you can see that some of the jeans are visibly beat up from the agitator and a standard large capacity MT [ well I won't go there ]
John L. |
Post# 961465 , Reply# 26   10/9/2017 at 08:14 (2,384 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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What will the water usage be? I was under the impression that the 2018 regs basically force about the same water usage as a front loader- hence my bet on an impeller- but honestly its just a guess.
The models that I know have the same holes are 1998-1999 large cap machines. Its possible the small holes came latter (ie after 1997) but I am not sure. As the pumps on GE washers those were a joke, along with the rectangular drain tube. Saw maintenance moan and groan about slow pump out. The DA DD certainly holds more, thats for sure. In my current Queen I find myself running an extra load as apposed to my old Whirlpool built Maytag. FWIW one reason I left it behind was water leaking out during the delicate cycle. Often in the first drain the washer would shift directly into spin causing water to leak out onto the basement floor. |
Post# 961498 , Reply# 28   10/9/2017 at 12:02 (2,384 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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I believe this is the new agitator coming in 2018.
Malcolm
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Post# 961500 , Reply# 29   10/9/2017 at 12:22 (2,384 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Cool Malcolm, well it looks like the clunky old transmission is gone, I would guess that the machine will operate more like a GE hydro-wave now.
Anyone that wants one of the old style SQ TLers better get off your ass and buy it fast.
We were warned a few months ago that the current TL washers were going to be in short supply toward the end of the year.
John L. |
Post# 961502 , Reply# 30   10/9/2017 at 12:23 (2,384 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))   |   | |
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But apparently no dispensers. Appears these machine become more and more of a compromise. Don't think they'll get another redesign before a complete new machine base will be developed. |
Post# 961509 , Reply# 31   10/9/2017 at 12:54 (2,384 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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If the new agitator and current agitator would fit the same drive bell.
Might be able to swap the new for a wavy vane. I want to say that the mechanical timer model is gone at the end of the year, too. Yeah, it might be time to buy a 2017 model, if the changes are too dramatic. Watching and waiting at this point. Malcolm |
Post# 961519 , Reply# 32   10/9/2017 at 14:00 (2,384 days old) by agiflow2 ()   |   | |
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Man those fins are super shallow on the base, but am looking forward to the new machines in any case. Maybe Alliance will get the top load HE concept right from the start. This post was last edited 10/09/2017 at 16:23 |
Post# 961552 , Reply# 33   10/9/2017 at 16:46 (2,384 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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I am going to hedge my bet and say "Glad I got a 2017!" It may, indeed, be the last of the true vintage-style washers, for better or worse.
Having said that, I'm definitely curious as to what changes are afoot. Thanks for the photo of what may be the new agitator, Malcolm. John, we wait with baited breath for your return from the SQ service sessions. |
Post# 961574 , Reply# 36   10/9/2017 at 18:13 (2,384 days old) by agiflow2 ()   |   | |
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Post# 961599 , Reply# 37   10/9/2017 at 20:38 (2,384 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)   |   | |
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but I dream of Speed Queen really embracing top loader tradition, and bringing back the suds saver. I can even imagine the extra button on the touch panel: "Reuse Wash Water" or something like that.
While I dream the impossible dream, I might as well add the dream for old time colors. I'm so tired of current appliance colors, and yearn for, say, a bright, sunny yellow. |
Post# 961639 , Reply# 40   10/10/2017 at 01:20 (2,384 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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Post# 961663 , Reply# 41   10/10/2017 at 07:03 (2,383 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Barry, the new SQ TL washers will have neutral drain and will leave a lot less lint and crap in the clothing.
I don't know how anybody can look a a neutral drain TL perforated basket and think that all the dirty just drains THROUGH the clothing, LOOK at what is actually happening, the clothing is suspended in the water as the drain starts, the water level goes down slightly faster in the outer tub. 90% of the washer is leaving through the side holes of the wash basket carrying lint and dirt with it. { this system is not perfect, but far better than the alternative ]
Same washer spin drain: everything starts spinning, clothes are heavier that water, clothes get pushed to the sides of the wash basket from centrifugal force, over 1/2 of all dirty water is forced under pressure THROUGH your clean clothing forcing your CLEAN clothing to become a gaint lint and grit filter.
This phenomenon has been proved again and again, every manufacturer that ever built Spin Drain TL Perforated Basket machines had problems with lint redisposing and streaking of clean clothing, you can read in the service manuals and see the things they did to the design of the machines to try to minimize this affect. [ you can read the thread hear about the guy in Pennsylvania with his linting problems that they had when his WP built DD washer stopped neutral draining, and how he solved the problem ]
Fact; every TL washer manufacturer who had a machine that was capable of doing a ND DID SO, the only reason SD washers were ever built is because they were CHEAPER to build as they did not have to do another complicated function. [ every TL washer built World Wide will soon be Neutral Drain 98.9% are ND now ]
Hi John, Suds-Savers where the water was stored in a separate tub really worked very well and made a lot of sense.
First since you would almost always start with HOT water you want it to cool somewhat for the next load or two, and having the water sit in the laundry tub for 20 minutes or longer really let the heavy soil settle in the bottom of the sink [ anyone that has ever used a SS can tell you that you always end rinsing this soil down the drain between every load.
Also the better WP-KM SS washers that had the great Self-Cleaning lint filters trapped a lot of lint during the wash and rinse parts of the cycle and automatically pumped this lint down the rinse drain hose, so it did not SAVE the lint.
These are great improvements on using the water over and over in a WW, people that had these WP. KM, SS washers really loved them, which is part of the reason that WP-KM sold more than 90% of all the SS automatic washers ever sold. In the neighborhood I live in literally almost every house had a KM SS washer when I was a kid, and one neighbor after another was really upset when they eventually had to replace these washers and could not get another SS washer.
I think that most other manufactures only built and sold SS washers because Kenmore and Whirlpool forced them to because many customers wanted this feature.
When buying a new KM washer say in 1968, paying the $10 for the SS option saved enough money in the 8-12 years the washer was likley to last in a family of four essentially gave you a FREE AUTOMATIC washer compared to your poor neighbor with a Non-SS washer [ imagine if there was a $100 option on a new car in 1968 that saved enough money to pay you back the complete cost of owning the car, EVERYONE and their brother would have bought that $100 option. As with many thrifty educated people things like SS washers helped many consumers to become more wealthy than their neighbors.
John L. |
Post# 961698 , Reply# 42   10/10/2017 at 09:57 (2,383 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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We may have to agree to disagree here. In my experience its neutral drain washers that leave more fuzz and junk behind, though not by much. I've seen post FF GEs do neutral drains where all the stuff floating in the water just settles on the clothes rather than being flung out through the holes as the water rises up. The big benefit of neutral drain comes in the ability to cheapen a washer, which is why I think it caught on so much. You need a clutch or at least a beefier clutch, beefier driver system, along with a re-designed tub cap and overflow system. Ie, if a post FF GE spin drains water leaks out via the overflow tub. Same reason for ridding breaks and going lid-lock, its cheaper to remove parts and/or design them around less stress load.
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Post# 961711 , Reply# 43   10/10/2017 at 10:59 (2,383 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Chet
I would Like To see a GE FF do a neutral drain.
You are correct that a lid lock eliminates having a tub break and probably saves money building a machine although it often increases problems, the trash brands like WH and WCI started using lid locks early on.
I certainly do not agree with the rest of your analysis on spin drain vs Neutral Drain TL washer, and problem is you have no credibility as we don't have any idea if you have ever seen, worked on, or have any first hand knowledge about washing machines.
At this point it is up to you to prove your ideas as I have seen a few hundred real life examples to prove my points, including every major American manufacturer of TL washers putting this problem in print, and all of them trying to take steps to address consumer complaints about excessive linting related to trying to spin drain a washer full of water and clothing.
Maytag even put in their advertising how much cleaner your clothing will be when they were promoting their Norge-Tag washers compared their DC machines, because the way the NT spun and drained out the dirty water as it was not spun out though the clothing nearly as much.
One of my favorite signs here at work says,
I Would Agree With You, But Then We Would Both Be Wrong
John L. This post was last edited 10/10/2017 at 11:22 |
Post# 961717 , Reply# 45   10/10/2017 at 11:22 (2,383 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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Post# 961725 , Reply# 47   10/10/2017 at 12:01 (2,383 days old) by brucelucenta ()   |   | |
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Post# 961732 , Reply# 48   10/10/2017 at 12:30 (2,383 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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"As far as I understand dosen't any TL with typical reversing motor have a clutch? Simply because the motor is fixed speed by winding?"
There are many top-loaders without clutches. Excluding the past (Unimatic) in this convo, GE did away with their clutches in about 2005, and most new toploads have no clutch at all. In part this is due to neutral draining, and also in part due to PSC /VFD motors which do not need to hit 1720rmp (or which ever) in 1/4 a second to drop the centrifugal switch. "I certainly do not agree with the rest of your analysis on spin drain vs Neutral Drain TL washer, and problem is you have no credibility as we don't have any idea if you have ever seen, worked on, or have any first hand knowledge about washing machines." Easy way to distance yourself there. "At this point it is up to you to prove your ideas as I have seen a few hundred real life examples to prove my points, including every major American manufacturer of TL washers putting this problem in print, and all of them trying to take steps to address consumer complaints about excessive linting related to trying to spin drain a washer full of water and clothing." If the problem was so great, then why did so many washer continue to spin drain, some like Maytag even boasting it? I have no doubt this is what you have personally seen and it certainly is not an invalid observation or conclusion, but in my experience based on home use of many machines over many years I have achieved better results with spin draining. That is not to say everyone has experienced the same. |
Post# 961741 , Reply# 49   10/10/2017 at 12:58 (2,383 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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in case your wondering, a DualAction works very well in a Speed Queen...and will turn over a larger load with more ease, and gentler too!....
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Post# 961751 , Reply# 51   10/10/2017 at 14:06 (2,383 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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You are supporting my point to a degree, actually. Yes- you can't make a Queen that much cheaper without changing the platform. But when you do change the platform, said engineer does not have to take the stress from spin-draining into account. That saves cost in many areas.
Also in terms of getting a VFD to spin-drain, yes it can be done, but thats more logic in the control board that needs to be programmed and more that can go wrong. |
Post# 961755 , Reply# 52   10/10/2017 at 14:22 (2,383 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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why in the world would you have to adapt the transmission in a Speed Queen if you wanted to convert it to a neutral drain with a separate pump?....
since the Australian market has them.....meaning they have a neutral drain and use the same transmission.... seems they would be cutting/saving cost by building one machine for several markets.... new platform?....new timer?.....new transmission design? most likely the newer units will be all touch pad, adding one more program to a cycle isn't going to be all that much of a hassle... |
Post# 961764 , Reply# 54   10/10/2017 at 14:41 (2,383 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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better yet, check out the Australian machines.....
they already neutral drain, added to our US counterparts.... the main motor stops agitation, pump removes the water, and then the motor is energized and reverses, causing spin.... until we hear from JohnL, who knows Speed Queen inside and out, I don't see Alliance making a huge change all at once.... besides, I am sure they will perfect it more than the current manufacturers have done in the past..... |
Post# 961769 , Reply# 55   10/10/2017 at 15:07 (2,383 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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"why in the world would you have to adapt the transmission in a Speed Queen if you wanted to convert it to a neutral drain with a separate pump?...."
You do not- unless you are building a new design from the ground up for cost efficiency reasons. "new platform?....new timer?.....new transmission design?" I guess we have not considered GE, Whirlpool, Frigidaire... ie, DD to VMW. "until we hear from JohnL, who knows Speed Queen inside and out, I don't see Alliance making a huge change all at once...." I am referring to washers in general. A design that has to take spin-drain stress will always cost more than one that only has wet clothing to spin. "More logic in the board that could go wrong? Read up on ROM systems, my friend." And who programs said ROM? The programmer not only has to come up with the right sequence for agitation, distribution, ramp, out of balance, ect ect, but must also perfect a spin drain sequence. |
Post# 961782 , Reply# 57   10/10/2017 at 15:58 (2,383 days old) by pumpkina (California)   |   | |
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It's my understanding that a two piece agitator is more effective in cleaning clothes than a single piece agitator. If that's true, why does Speed Queen use a single piece agitator? |
Post# 961821 , Reply# 59   10/10/2017 at 20:09 (2,383 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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seems they might be going back to the solid vane....been there before
CLICK HERE TO GO TO Yogitunes's LINK
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Post# 961877 , Reply# 61   10/11/2017 at 02:38 (2,383 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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@Agiflow: I agree. Speed Queen knows what customers want. They knew what I wanted and then some. I have NOT used a BETTER washer outside of two vintage machines (Supersurgilator belt drive and 1970's Maytag Helical) and if they put a $2000 price tag on my machine I still would have bought it. In fact I am even musing with the idea of buying a TL SQ now for the feature. I have no doubt Speed Queen will make a serious effort despite the restricted water usage.
I agree that GE and Whirlpool have lost their way, but in all fairness part of that comes from energy regs. With restricted water use there is only so much you can do- you practically need to re-invent the top washer. Manufacturers wish they did not have to go that route. But going back to the agi- if thats it then I have a feeling SQ will use those veins to "stir" the clothes; intermittent pules in between stirring to roll them over, trying to mimick a front load but on a vertical scale. I have to admit thats very simple yet ingenious. In that case I can certainly see the need for a VFD. |
Post# 961878 , Reply# 62   10/11/2017 at 02:44 (2,383 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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And I forgot to address this:
"Lid locks are cheaper then brakes, yes. The only way to stop a 700rpm drum in seconds notice is a heavy duty break. Given that there is no use in opening the lid while the spinning is going (can't add laundry during a spin, can you), locking the lid while spinning is far more economical then the breaks." Only way? Then how did a Hydrowave brake without an actually brake assembly? I have a feeling people are selectively reading my posts :P |
Post# 961879 , Reply# 63   10/11/2017 at 03:09 (2,383 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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Post# 961885 , Reply# 64   10/11/2017 at 04:14 (2,383 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)   |   | |
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Not always a lid lock eliminates the tub brake... But it helps reducing the visits to the court. Millennials, millennials... argh! |
Post# 961895 , Reply# 65   10/11/2017 at 05:58 (2,382 days old) by MrAlex (London, UK)   |   | |
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Post# 961942 , Reply# 66   10/11/2017 at 12:12 (2,382 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)   |   | |
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No, when you have a collection of more than 3000 emails (in 1 year) with horrendous millennials questions... Like "do I really need to rinse the clothes?" |
Post# 961947 , Reply# 67   10/11/2017 at 12:42 (2,382 days old) by brucelucenta ()   |   | |
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It will be very interesting to see what kind of machine Speed Queen comes up with this year. |
Post# 961992 , Reply# 68   10/11/2017 at 15:28 (2,382 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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Post# 962000 , Reply# 69   10/11/2017 at 16:40 (2,382 days old) by agiflow2 ()   |   | |
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....and now back to our regularly scheduled program -2018 Speed Queen top load models. |
Post# 962016 , Reply# 70   10/11/2017 at 18:37 (2,382 days old) by washman (o)   |   | |
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Not me! |
Post# 962025 , Reply# 71   10/11/2017 at 19:25 (2,382 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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Post# 962029 , Reply# 72   10/11/2017 at 19:46 (2,382 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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The Millennials and Generation Z'ers I work with are bright, creative, enterprising, and work smarter rather than harder. Their priorities are sometimes as different from mine (born 1959) as my sister's (born 1947) were from our parents' (born 1914 and 1921). And that's as it should be. Any group that isn't different enough to spark the ire of the ones who came before them isn't doing its job.👍
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Post# 962045 , Reply# 74   10/11/2017 at 22:19 (2,382 days old) by speedqueen (Metro-Detroit)   |   | |
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As someone born in the year 2000 and who attends high school, I wholeheartedly agree with your comments.
My generation is a lump of lazy, inpatient, entitled, know-it-alls. Why do you think that shipping companies now feel the need to put their database online so that impatient people can stare at it, no matter how long one stares it the tracking data, the item isn't coming any sooner. I also remember seeing something about landlords coming for a 6 month inspection and finding half the light bulbs burnt out and not replaced because their millenial tennents don't know how to replace them or care to learn.(LEFTY Loosy, RIGHTY Tighty!!!) I think part of the problem lies in the lack of critical thinking taught by parents and educators as well as the fact that math and science now outweigh history as a component of schooling. Historical education teaches common sense and practical knowledge, math and science seldom do. People of my generation are often more swayed by emotion than logic and facts by comparison to previous generations. As I have mentioned many times, I am autistic, I'm rather proud of that fact because I look around myself and think, "That's supposed to be normal, thank God I'm not." While others in my generation cannot swap a light bulb, I am rebuilding a carburetor on a late 1960s Toro Power-Handle with Snowhound 20" attachment. By these standards, who really are the crazy ones? |
Post# 962057 , Reply# 75   10/12/2017 at 02:18 (2,382 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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If you're putting stickers on products that say "Do not spin dry dogs, cats, birds..." then your problem is the legal system. An element of stupidity has inhabited any group or generation you'd care to name. For every email you receive that bitches about having to cut two zip-ties, there are many you don't hear from who understand why the zip-ties need to be there.
Certainly we can find common ground in this: Disdain for the next generation has always existed.
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Post# 962058 , Reply# 76   10/12/2017 at 02:18 (2,382 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)   |   | |
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It won't surprise me at all if speed queen comes up with a washer that we (normal people with commonsense) will be desperate, crying and banging our heads on the wall. |
Post# 962060 , Reply# 78   10/12/2017 at 02:44 (2,382 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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Thomas: Appending meaningless, fancy names or features to products is not a 'nowadays' trend. One need only view the vintage ads in POD to see this has always been the case. The "bullshit factor" has existed since the advent of marketing; only the words have changed/evolved. Fifty years ago, manufacturers sought to increase sales by using words like 'scientific' or calling their product 'Lady Kenmore' or 'Flair Custom Imperial.' Today, the buzzwords are (surprise, surprise) 'Turbo' and 'iWhatever.'
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Post# 962062 , Reply# 79   10/12/2017 at 03:01 (2,382 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Could be, time will tell, but you have to remember there is only so much you can do around a concept designed around lots of water. I have a feeling in the least the longevity aspect will remain. I also hope Speed Queen makes their new machines more service friendly. In the current Speed Queens if you loose the transmission or bearings you basically have to scrap the whole machine. Its a nightmare to change out. But if SQ comes out with something like Whirlpool did, I can picture them winning over many dealers.
And yahhh, I do agree that a lot of machines on the market are nothing but a bunch of gimmicks, chimes and glossy appeal. But at the same time remember that their are plenty of folks buying basic Whirlpool washers who have the means to buy otherwise, so not everyone is falling for it like they used to. If Speed Queen plays this right, they could win A LOT of customers on many levels. The longevity aspect might actually force Whirlpool to do extended warranties or make more durable machines. And oh- Its just a wish, but if president Trump could visit Alliance in Ripon Wisconsin for being American made... :) Sales will absolutely sky rocket; with GE, Whirlpool and others making note. It might be a dream, but I long for the day when I can set foot on the Sears, JCPenney or Home Depot sales floor and purchase a one-knob wonder from any manufacturer that will last 30+ years, 5 year unlimited warranty, stainless steal wash basket & steel outer tub, all metal parts, easy service and no lid-lock. We can make laundry great again!!!!!!!!!!!! (A wish hoping to come true) |
Post# 962081 , Reply# 82   10/12/2017 at 07:15 (2,381 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 962130 , Reply# 85   10/12/2017 at 11:47 (2,381 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Is a great warranty on a home washer, and I give MT credit for responding to the heavy challenge that SQ is causing MT.
WP-MT should offer a standard 5 Y P&L warranty on ALL W&Ds costing over $800 if they really want to respond to SQs challenge.
I feel that is time for a major manufacturer like WP to launch a campaign emphasizing quality home appliances like WP did in the early 70s, doing so is the only way WP can stand up to the on slot of foreign appliances, WP has the infrastructure to do this.
More than anything else consumers want their major appliances to work and not need expensive early repairs and replacement.
John L. |
Post# 962131 , Reply# 86   10/12/2017 at 11:49 (2,381 days old) by Magic_Clean (Florida)   |   | |
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it is a 2 piece agitator on the 3.5 cu. ft. basket model.
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Post# 962141 , Reply# 89   10/12/2017 at 12:33 (2,381 days old) by Stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)   |   | |
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I saw a new SQ commercial TL machine in a nice gray color...if I find the pic I'll post it. Could it be, that depending on local conditions: water/user/settings/detergent/soil level omfg so many variables...that a person may prefer a spin drain to a neutral, or vice-versa? Hard tellin' not knowin'...but I do believe SQ is the favorite brand to chat about 'round here regardless. Craigslist ad copy: NEW....NEW....NEW (2) ONLY two months NEW Primus/ Speed Queen Top-Load washers. 3- year factory warranty. New beautiful Gray color. Simple user-friendly MDC board. Large-capacity coin boxes included. $800 each (My cost was $965). Installed July 2nd, 2017, removed August 25th. (Decided to install larger washers instead) This post was last edited 10/12/2017 at 12:56 |
Post# 962143 , Reply# 90   10/12/2017 at 12:46 (2,381 days old) by agiflow2 ()   |   | |
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On first look at the Maytag dryer I got nervous. I thought it looked Frigidaire by the door. |
Post# 962150 , Reply# 91   10/12/2017 at 13:46 (2,381 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 962158 , Reply# 92   10/12/2017 at 14:37 (2,381 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)   |   | |
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Post# 962197 , Reply# 94   10/12/2017 at 19:42 (2,381 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 962212 , Reply# 95   10/12/2017 at 21:18 (2,381 days old) by Stricklybojack (South Hams Devon UK)   |   | |
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Sorry I didn't make that clear. Is it possible a person knows what they like, maybe because of their particular set of washing circumstances...or not? Is a person ALOWED to pick the washer they prefer for good reason, bad reason no reason at all? Is there a best shade of blue...or a best song? I see one can argue about neutral vs spin....but also one can choose not to and not be wrong. |
Post# 962248 , Reply# 97   10/13/2017 at 04:07 (2,381 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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Post# 962250 , Reply# 98   10/13/2017 at 05:02 (2,380 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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"The only reason other washing machines did not have a neutral drain is because they were incapable of doing so with the pumps they used"
I am not necessarily saying the neutral drain folks are wrong, but can someone elaborate more on this? "NO WASHER MANUFACTURER WHOSE MACHINE COULD DO A NEUTRAL DRAIN DID NOT USE A NEUTRAL DRAIN, now or ever." Like the above, I am not saying you are wrong, but I (in my mind) don't understand this. Machines continued to spin-drain even after going to a perforated tub. |
Post# 962259 , Reply# 99   10/13/2017 at 07:52 (2,380 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Post# 962267 , Reply# 100   10/13/2017 at 08:27 (2,380 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)   |   | |
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Post# 962323 , Reply# 101   10/13/2017 at 16:55 (2,380 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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Reply 99: Well, well, Launderess. Our grey beauty is a water miser. I believe my Speed Queen uses around 24.6 gallons on the Normal Eco cycle at the Large load setting, which utilizes a spray rather than deep rinse. However, it also says the lid doesn't lock so fabric softener can be added. Maybe there is an optional fabric softener setting. Assuming that would trigger a deep rinse, I'd think the amount of water used would nearly double.
I certainly hope it doesn't fill to only a medium water level for both wash and rinse. I'm even more convinced there was something either the users or owner hated about these machines in order to scrap them after less than two months. |
Post# 962517 , Reply# 104   10/14/2017 at 15:25 (2,379 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 962529 , Reply# 105   10/14/2017 at 15:55 (2,379 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 962668 , Reply# 106   10/15/2017 at 09:07 (2,378 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 962672 , Reply# 107   10/15/2017 at 10:05 (2,378 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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And save some money, BUT they found out fast as customers returned the new machines and complained up a storm.
When you are the worlds largest washer builder with far more repeat customers than ANY other brand, they could not get away with selling an inferior poor performing product.
Interestingly Maytag had one of the lowest repeat sales rates of he big washer builders back in the 70s-80s. Of the hundreds of MT DC washers we hauled out of homes I have only ever had about 3 customers that wanted another MT washer, they were usually impressed with long they had lasted but they were always ready for something that was larger in capacity and performed better. [ And I never had a customer that wished they had kept the old MT after they got their new WP or SQ top load washer ]
We were taking back early DD washers and giving customers BD ND machines till WP came up with a very clever fix in 1985.
John L. |
Post# 962675 , Reply# 109   10/15/2017 at 10:26 (2,378 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 962684 , Reply# 110   10/15/2017 at 11:05 (2,378 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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@Combo: How would a customer know though that the Whirlpool they were about to purchase linted less? I think rather what pushed people to Whirlpool was the larger capacity, and this I have witnessed first hand several times at a local dealer 10 years ago when the DC were still in the back storage room.
I can't speak to what you have seen first hand, but the explanation I have received from a Maytag dealer and a service tech is that the reason Whirlpool went to N-D was due to clutches wearing out faster. (and something about the original DDs being designed around a small capacity machine) Second N-D for a DD is a misnomer. A large chunk of these machines spin drain as they age, and I have even used new machines were the first spin was S-D. The neutral drain mechanism was a joke to be honest. |
Post# 962689 , Reply# 112   10/15/2017 at 11:54 (2,378 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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I think what made the DDs so famous was two things:
1. The bulk of Whirlpool machines were sold under the Kenmore name. Sears knew how to sell, and they turned everything into gold under their name. Kenmore gave low price, high end features on low end models (ie today you can get sani-rinse on a BOL Kenmore, but outside of that you must go to at upper MOL), large capacity, warranty, service contracts, ect ect. Bottom line their was all the incentive in the world for people to buy Kenmore, and Whirlpool had all the incentive to build a machine that gave the most bang for the buck. 2. The GE and Maytag change over was a disaster: a. GE has always leaned toward builders and landlords, and in the 90s the Welch magic kicked in possessing everything with greed and an even bigger desire to appeal to the buider's grade market. A market GE won over in the 70s and 80s. As such the post FF washers were never really intended to be stellar or durable machines, rather appealing to a market that was never really intended for joe consumer. b. Maytag always had joe consumer in mind, but made a lot of mistakes. In an effort to compete with Whirlpool they copy-pasted several designs without actually improving them or simply coming up with their own. The end result was horrible reliability that destroyed their reputation. Personally DDs do shred, but only on the fast setting which is why Kenmore made sure low-fast was their "normal" cycle. |
Post# 962694 , Reply# 114   10/15/2017 at 12:23 (2,378 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 962710 , Reply# 116   10/15/2017 at 13:56 (2,378 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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I could agree- however I still think the SQ cleans better. Maybe I'm just biased- but there is something very seductive about Speed Queen washers. Thats not to say that I do not miss the old Kenmore line. It certainly had much to offer in many regards.
Before I forget- what Dual action agitators are capable of fitting in a Speed Queen? Will the transmission be safe? I just might give it a try. |
Post# 962743 , Reply# 118   10/15/2017 at 19:18 (2,378 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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Post# 962753 , Reply# 119   10/15/2017 at 20:40 (2,378 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 962786 , Reply# 120   10/15/2017 at 23:31 (2,378 days old) by peteski50 (New York)   |   | |
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Post# 963030 , Reply# 121   10/17/2017 at 16:43 (2,376 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)   |   | |
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Would a suds saver work with today's non phosphate detergent? I understand people's desire for top loaders,but I just cannot justify the amount of water being used and the impact to my water and sewer bill. |
Post# 963082 , Reply# 122   10/17/2017 at 21:46 (2,376 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 963111 , Reply# 123   10/18/2017 at 05:13 (2,375 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Patrick, I agree with you about how DD WP made washers are reminiscent of Frigidaires. When I went to buy my Lady Shredmore October 1986, Sears had the TOL ebony electronic control panel pair connected. Salesman turned it on so I could see how it washed. The rollover and how it sucked clothes down to the base immediately had me thinking, that looks just like a Unimatic washing. |
Post# 963123 , Reply# 125   10/18/2017 at 07:54 (2,375 days old) by mayken4now (Panama City, Florida)   |   | |
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Post# 963125 , Reply# 126   10/18/2017 at 08:22 (2,375 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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these energy saving conversationalist worry so much of how little water they can squeeze out, like water is not renewable.....yes, FLer conserve better for a lot of reasons compared to a TLer, but washing in drops of water is crazy....
now if they wanted to impress the world......put your brains together, and produce extreme fuel efficient gas engine that gets a true 50+ MPG.....and powerful to boot....and I don't mean one of these hybrids or little lunch box cars, full size vehicles, SUV's, and Truck's.... cars today are not getting any better mileage than cars of the 70's.....oh sure, 6, 8 maybe 12 MPG more than their predecessors, Puh-Leeze.....50 years later, and this is the best they can do? I just think the price of water is not as much a concern as the price for gas per gallon....YMMV |
Post# 963141 , Reply# 127   10/18/2017 at 10:26 (2,375 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 963180 , Reply# 128   10/18/2017 at 15:29 (2,375 days old) by speedqueen (Metro-Detroit)   |   | |
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And a load that small shouldn't cause any trouble for any machine with a reasonable suspension. Haven't had that trouble with either my SQ or MT. WP had another reason to go with neutral drain and that was their lesser suspension.
I'll admit that I don't own a belt drive whirlpool but you can see a lot of tub movement in them. Please, WP experts correct me if I'm wrong regarding their suspension. I do want to eventually ad one to my small collection, though. |
Post# 963182 , Reply# 129   10/18/2017 at 15:47 (2,375 days old) by agiflow2 ()   |   | |
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Its like full circle. WP went back to having the inner workings hanging off of the cabinet again on their current platform. |
Post# 963223 , Reply# 132   10/18/2017 at 19:45 (2,375 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )   |   | |
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Or Westinghouse FL, the water comes up about 1/4 of the way up the window, on the slant fronts the clothes are nearly submerged also. |
Post# 963231 , Reply# 134   10/18/2017 at 20:29 (2,375 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)   |   | |
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Well, I never had a "grease-ring" around a GE FF, SQ or Maytag agitator. And I've never seen a neutral-drain without them. I never had a lint issue with any of them either and even if I did the dryer would catch it, anyway.
I agree with Steve 100%. I have these machines lined up in the basement as well, including the first generation of perforated tub GE Filter-Flo and never once do I remember seeing any kind of lint deposited at the end of the cycle. Same goes for the Maytag 806 I had for several years. The only advantage to a neutral drain that I have found over the last 20 years has been better balancing with very small loads. The solid tubs however more than make up for that by the simple fact that the outer tub is completely segregated from the wash tub (with the exception of the overflow/recirculation machines) and it keeps any build-up of grime in the outer tub away from the clothes being washed. Twenty years of having these machines and I have not experienced most of the claimed issues stated in this thread. As for water conservation, I won't play golf in the desert or go skiing on man-made snow, problem solved :-). |
Post# 963244 , Reply# 137   10/18/2017 at 21:27 (2,375 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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of the machines I have, spin drain, neutral drain, FL, TL......the lint filter is just there for looks, removed while machine is in use, even most of the self-clean filters have been yanked out....
between sorting, cycle, water temp/level, detergent.....and proper washing techniques......dirt and lint will be held in suspension until the drain sequence of any type is done... but all in all, you can take the same machine, same load, same washing techniques...and each person will get different results... |
Post# 963262 , Reply# 139   10/18/2017 at 22:47 (2,375 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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The only ones that ever had water fill levels up on the glass were the early bolt down Bendix washers and the 55-63 WH compact 25" wide models. All the others including all combos the WL was always low enough to open the the door at any time during the cycle without spliage.
While total water use on early FL models was not much less than early TL automatics you have to keep in mind that they still saved a lot of hot water, detergent and other laundry additives because the wash fill was only 1/3 to 1/2 of what the wash fill was in a TL machine.
You could also wash more clothing in a 1959 and later full sized WH FL washer than about any other machine especially the solid tub and MT washers in these tests, so the total water usage figures don't tell the whole story.
John L. |
Post# 963323 , Reply# 141   10/19/2017 at 07:57 (2,374 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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They all changed into full dry mode within one minute, several also started heating up the load in the final spin cycles to speed things up, some also gave a final hot rinse if the wash temperature had had been set to hot.
The new SQ FL washers are not only the best built automatic washers ever sold for home use in the US [ IMEO ] And you can now adjust the water level with a simple switch setting on the main control board, you can turn up the WL about 2" in 1/2" increments.
John L. |
Post# 963437 , Reply# 143   10/19/2017 at 20:45 (2,374 days old) by agiflow2 ()   |   | |
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So combo52,..are we going to find out next week about the new Speed Queen models ? I can't wait to hear what you have to report. Really am very curious now . Trying to be optimistic here ! LOL. |
Post# 963456 , Reply# 144   10/19/2017 at 23:34 (2,374 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 963461 , Reply# 145   10/20/2017 at 00:42 (2,374 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 963472 , Reply# 146   10/20/2017 at 03:23 (2,374 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 963475 , Reply# 147   10/20/2017 at 04:30 (2,373 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 963488 , Reply# 149   10/20/2017 at 07:58 (2,373 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)   |   | |
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The solid tub Blackstones drained water from the bottom of the tub then spun water over the top during the spin so I guess it was a type of hybrid, too, but it did not start to spin with water remaining in the tub. |
Post# 963491 , Reply# 150   10/20/2017 at 08:15 (2,373 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )   |   | |
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Washers used more water because the actually rinsed your clothes, Take a load out of ANY of these new FL washers and put it in a tub of clean water and you will be amazed at the suds! |
Post# 963496 , Reply# 151   10/20/2017 at 09:48 (2,373 days old) by golittlesport (California)   |   | |
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Not sure how you draw your conclusion about modern FL rinsing, but I doubt you have tried your test with EVERY FL washer on the market today.
I have an LG FL that is an excellent rinser. Best performing machine of any FL or TL I have owned. Regular cycle has two spin spray rinses and up to four deep rinses with high speed spin between each one. Towel and Bulky cycles have higher water levels to boot. Based on my personal experience with FL washers, I have never had poor rinsing performance. Putting aside one's visual biases, it is possible to effectively rinse without the fabrics floating around in a large amount of water, just as one can effectively get clean clothes without seeing a mountain of suds. |
Post# 963507 , Reply# 153   10/20/2017 at 11:11 (2,373 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Generally do a superior job of both stain removal and cleaning in general, this is primarily due to having 3-6 times stronger detergent concentration in the wash cycle.
This coupled with generally longer wash periods and much better rinsing generally gives superior results that few that have actually had both type machines would ever contest. John L. |
Post# 963567 , Reply# 157   10/20/2017 at 21:28 (2,373 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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I think its time manufactures get serious about HE washers if they want consumers to get serious about HE washers. Having a heater allows for multi-stage detergent and sani washes. People can save by turning down their water heater, and you get REAL hot water instead of a lukewarm already cool wash. All front loaders should have an on board heater; period.
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Post# 963597 , Reply# 162   10/21/2017 at 04:45 (2,372 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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agiflow2: Correct me if I am wrong but does any washer maker other than Speed Queen offer a top loader where you can get straight hot tap water ?Fisher & Paykel's agitator toploader WA3927G1 runs full tap-hot for the Allergy cycle, and that cycle has two deep rinses. One can presumably fill a load on Allergy, then cancel and switch to another cycle. |
Post# 963670 , Reply# 165   10/21/2017 at 12:59 (2,372 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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first of all, standard FL machine in a laundromat uses more water per fill, and run shorter cycles--time is money-- than your standard home machine....
HE TLers, don't knock one until you own one.....I had/have a few of them.....if the wash water comes out filthy, and the last rinse is clear, plus the clothes are clean.....results no one can argue with, I don't care who you are.... you have to let the machine runs through it paces, even I was skeptical at first....but it truly does an exceptional job, like it or not.... many machines I noticed DUB down hot water.....the first question I ask is, what temp is your water heater set at?....dubbing down 120, yeah, your going to get a medium warm wash......now, dubbing down 180, even at a 20 degree drop, I have a true HOT wash.... water heaters in most machines are helpful, but even they wont raise the temp that high.....I was hoping for machines with a heater to get an actual boil wash.... probably one of the best things for any HE machine with a low water level, TL or FL, is a continuous sprinkler.....which even in the Kenmore Combo was shown to be most effective....the clothing constantly being saturated with a concentrate detergent lather..... |
Post# 963689 , Reply# 169   10/21/2017 at 16:00 (2,372 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 963696 , Reply# 171   10/21/2017 at 16:51 (2,372 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 963698 , Reply# 172   10/21/2017 at 16:58 (2,372 days old) by agiflow2 ()   |   | |
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Thanks for the correction John. Did the first DD oasis/cabrio washers use a lot more water ? I forget now whether they did or not. I know the agitator ones did. |
Post# 963722 , Reply# 173   10/21/2017 at 19:05 (2,372 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 963780 , Reply# 174   10/22/2017 at 00:23 (2,372 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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The idea was good, but something went wrong. I'll never forget the site when I walked onto the Sears floor one day in the early 2000s. The amount of returned Calypso washers could fill the mall the store was attached to. The Sears guys did not have nice things to say about them. Perhaps it was just something local or set of defective washers, but for what ever reasons consumers did not like them. But seeing today's impellers I think Calypso should be given another try. The Maytag TL and Calypso seem a lot more promising.
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Post# 963792 , Reply# 175   10/22/2017 at 00:35 (2,372 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )   |   | |
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Beat your clothes on a rock as wash them in some of this new stuff! |
Post# 963820 , Reply# 176   10/22/2017 at 05:49 (2,371 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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The primary problem with the Calypso is that people couldn't get a grasp on using it properly. WP did have some mechanical issues with it but they did several revisions on it through production. I have both a Calypso and a Neptune TL ... the Calypso beats the TL by far on certain kinds of loads, and rinses better. |
Post# 964265 , Reply# 178   10/25/2017 at 11:56 (2,368 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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there are a great number of machines that have a built in 'fail safe' if you will....when it comes to HOT and COLD altering....
many machines will throw an error code if... -both hoses are not connected... -hot is not on the hot side, and cold is not on the cold side....some will shut down, others will 'know' the hoses are flipped, and adjust temps to dub down the hot side, no matter which one its connected to.... some machines you can unplug the sensor, others you cannot....as it will affect temps... it is like they are one step ahead of us when trying to hack one of these......which I think are steps way to far for a washing machine.... I have machines with Auto-Temp-Control, where the idea was if the cold water was too cool, it would add hot to bring the temps up for proper activation of detergent and cleaning...those days are long gone.... |
Post# 964267 , Reply# 179   10/25/2017 at 13:05 (2,368 days old) by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND)   |   | |
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The rep didn't say anything either way about auto temp control, but he said there is an eco cycle that offers a spray rinse and a load detection.
The new machine is supposed to use a variable speed motor, there is a lid lock, and no braking system. All of the drive components are metal. All electro-mechanical controls. If you are not using ECO you can select a manual water level. The lid only locks during spin. They are saying the new system will move the water through the clothes, not move the clothes through the water. They are saying a 20% life increase on clothes washed in this new machine compared to the old one. Also, the price is going up 50 ish bucks and the top end machine will have a 7 year warranty. As far as the front loaders, the biggest change will be that they can be ordered with left or right hinged doors on the washers. And I did find out a few weeks ago the ECO cycles can be turned off on the digital front loaders and the water level can be increased by two inches. |
Post# 964268 , Reply# 180   10/25/2017 at 13:26 (2,368 days old) by agiflow2 ()   |   | |
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So, it kind of sounds like not much action going on in the tub then. smh. |
Post# 1170681 , Reply# 184   1/29/2023 at 22:30 (446 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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I believe Speed Queen is still making the perfect wash system along with the classic clean. |
Post# 1174348 , Reply# 185   3/11/2023 at 01:25 (406 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Post# 1174359 , Reply# 186   3/11/2023 at 06:09 (405 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Total BS, SQ TL Washers rinse great, I have never had a complaint from a customer of the 1000s of customers we have interacted with that own SQ TL washers.
Slight foam coming out the drain hose during final spin or a few suds bubbles in the rinse water do not mean the machine is not rinsing well, test your rinse water and you will find it is not slippery between your fingers and a glass of it is clear enough to drink.
Unless you have perfectly soft water the worst thing you can do to your washer or your laundry is to over rinse it, doing so just rinses minerals back into your laundry and you will have itchy clothing and mineral deposits will build up in the washer and ruin water seals in the pump and the main outer tub seal.
We have seen many washers destroyed by over rinsing loads of clothing.
John L. |
Post# 1174387 , Reply# 188   3/11/2023 at 10:46 (405 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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From experience and videos I’ve witnessed on YouTube, the modern Speed Queen’s have piss poor rinsing since the first spin is slow which doesn’t spin out enough of the soapy water resulting in poor rinsing.
“Total BS, SQ TL washers rinse great, I have never had a complaint from a customer of the 1000s of customers we have interacted with that own Speed Queen washers”. The customers of yours who have Speed Queen washers more than likely had HE machines before they got their Speed Queen which is why they are happy with them but don’t rinse very well in my book. It’s interesting reading through the archives and how you praised Whirlpool’s washers since they did a neutral drain and how you weren’t too fond of spin drain machines like Maytag since they supposedly would muck up under the agitator while Speed Queen’s do a spin drain and muck up under the agitator even worse from videos I’ve seen of Speed Queen washer repair. |
Post# 1174409 , Reply# 189   3/11/2023 at 14:05 (405 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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I am so sick and tired of the slow intermediate spin after wash and before rinse. I have always had top load washers that spun at high speeds through and through during the normal cycle. |
Post# 1174430 , Reply# 190   3/11/2023 at 17:42 (405 days old) by qsd-dan (West)   |   | |
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Post# 1174632 , Reply# 192   3/13/2023 at 17:00 (403 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)   |   | |
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