Thread Number: 73396  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Whirlpool vs Samsung, LG
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Post# 969350   11/22/2017 at 04:45 by Gyrafoam (Roanoke, VA)        

Looks like a battle brewing that is soon to come to light!
Here's a link to Fox Business:

www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/...





Post# 969398 , Reply# 1   11/22/2017 at 12:51 by speedqueen (Harrison Twp, Michigan)        
I'm happy!

With that tarriff, there is a chance that WP might boost quality a bit because they are not in a cut-every-corner price war w/ the Koreans.

Besides, free, unbalanced trade has killed so many US industries. Remember Zenith and RCA leading the TV and electronics industry? The last vestages of the Zenith brand are owned by LG and RCA is just a liscensing name. The govt. of the time let the Japanese and Koreans kill the US industry, they knew about dumping on part of the Japanese and for favorable relations in other negotiations, let the unthinkable happen. Also, I'm starting to think that consumers on a whole are stupid and cannot be bothered to think of long term quality and buying the best so you only have to buy once.

Without the government, RCA and Zenith went from leading the pack in 1975 to falling fast by 1985. They had to start cutting their own corners to price compete because few would pay for quality anymore. RIP Sarnoff Labs...


Post# 969426 , Reply# 2   11/22/2017 at 17:15 by Gyrafoam (Roanoke, VA)        

Oh, I know. The last Zenith TV I bought early in the 90's was stamped "Hencho en Mexico".

The "sheeple" have been dumbed-down and trained to pay more and expect less.


Post# 969442 , Reply# 3   11/22/2017 at 19:24 by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        

Lg really slapped most American appliance companies in the face. They make a superior product, that lasts longer, AND itís cheaper. Letís put aside for a moment the currency difference and labor.

Whirlpool has been riding on its own coat tails for years now. Their technology is behind lg by at least 5 years.

Lg came out with a dual evap fridge with a linear compressor and took the market by storm. Whirlpool slaps some pos version together and itís like they forgot how to braze back at the factory. Ge just said f it and slaps their badge on a Samsung unit. Frigidaire is such a disaster on so many levels that I can only hope they go out of business.

Anybody ever try and get warranty service on one of the 3 American companies? Ge is 3 weeks out.

I had a power surge at my house and it blew the board on my lg fridge. I called at 8 am Friday, the guy was out by Noon THAT DAY. It was fixed by noon Saturday. Thatís Service.

Instead of tariffs whirlpool should devote more of their resources to engineering and build a better product.


Post# 969449 , Reply# 4   11/22/2017 at 19:49 by henene4 (Germany)        
Seems just stupid

From an economic point of view, this will only worsen the situation. There will be basicly no competition on the market.
EVERYTHING will be Whirlpool.
It's like giving a treat to a dog that pooped in the house.
LG and Samsung found ways to make better and cheaper products that Americans like and can afford.
Whirlpool did... Nothing?
And for that, Whirlpool will get a benefit.

Thinking that Whirlpool will give its advantage on to the customer is just uneducated.
You think that Whirlpool will loose out on any revenue? They won't change a thing.
It's a companys dream: More revenue WITHOUT CHANGING A SINGLE THING.

Further, economicly speaking, this will worsen the consumers situation.
You see, the consumer is at the bottom of the pyramid of money flow.
A consumer works for a company and gets money from them.
The consumer then spends that money with other companys.
They keep some for them selfes and spend only part of it on their employees.
If a company would pay every employee exactly what his or her work was worth, the company wouldn't make revenue.
So - strictly speaking - no consumer will ever be abled to afford the goods or services they produce or provide.

Forcing Americans to buy American products thus is a longterm basicly impossibly workable system.




Post# 969453 , Reply# 5   11/22/2017 at 20:34 by agiflow2 ()        

Can't argue with you Lorainefurniture about building a better product.. but LG and Samsung are hardly superior to Whirlpool in any way.. sorry I am a fan of WP and have had and am having great service from their products.

I have a WP quiet wash dishwasher that is 27 years old last month..still a great dishwasher and just earlier in the year bought a new WP fridge to replace a 25 year old WP fridge... so far so good.

I think WP weak area is probably their ranges. They are literally tin cans in construction. Even Frigidaire ranges look and feel more substantial. Their pro ranges are well made it seems though. They should be for the prices they get for Kitchen aid and Jennair.


Post# 969455 , Reply# 6   11/22/2017 at 20:50 by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        
High failure rate LG linear compressors...

Apparently the LG linear compressors commonly fail after ~1 1/2 years of use-valves break up :)Have 10 year compressor warranty,but replacement labor only covers 1 year...The 2014 LG top load I junked this year had some design errors thatcaused it,s early demise...

Post# 969474 , Reply# 7   11/22/2017 at 23:25 by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        
Iím not saying lg is perfect

Iíve changed many linear lg compressors. In fact, I have 2 at my shop. I canít tell you how many wp fridges I scrapped due to system leaks. Overall their product is better than whirlpool/ge/Electrolux. The American people are agreeing (with their wallets) too.

I wish whirlpool would make another quality unit. I love my direct drive ka washer. Their dryers are fantastic. For literally a few dollars more during manufacturing they can make a product last 3x as long.


Post# 969479 , Reply# 8   11/23/2017 at 00:14 by henene4 (Germany)        
Wanting to make stuff last

There has been a trend since basicly the end of the war: Things get cheaper.

The first automatics cost one or even multiple entire monthly salarys of most people. 300 odd dolars back then, equal to several thousand dollars today.
Today, a washer and dryer set goes for just about what an average family has as disposable income in a month.
Same with TVs: In dollars, a TV today and back 50-70 years are between 300-1000$.
Back then however, that amount of money was worth several times what it is today.

So, you can say, the ration between how many months worth of money you spend and how long the average appliance lasts has stayed about equal.
And that is important to the manufacturer: Income/revenue has been about stable.

If a machine would last twice as long, the manufacturer would have to sell it for twice as before to keep an equal income per time.
And no manufacturer could say at twice the price suddenly.


Post# 969523 , Reply# 9   11/23/2017 at 09:43 by agiflow2 ()        

I'll bet it is more the millennials who are buying the LG and Samsung products. They have their cell phones...so why not their appliances. As far as LG being better than WP that is a joke. Agree to disagree.

Post# 969531 , Reply# 10   11/23/2017 at 10:22 by henene4 (Germany)        
Definition of better

Better in terms of more advanced: LG is sure ahead of WP.

Better in terms of results: Both equal.

Better in terms of machine construction: I'd say WP os slightly ahead.


Post# 969534 , Reply# 11   11/23/2017 at 10:34 by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        
nillenials and flashy LEDs sales draw...

LEDs pull in millenials like a 400w Mercury vapor lamp draws in clouds of moths :)I have a 21 YO nephew,so I have experienced this phenomenon first hand :)

Post# 969553 , Reply# 12   11/23/2017 at 12:51 by Whatsername (Boulder, CO)        

"millennials are idiots" - the generation that made a millionaire out of the creator of the pet rock

Post# 969563 , Reply# 13   11/23/2017 at 14:27 by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        

Sorry to burst your bubble but the pet rock fad was 1975.

Post# 969568 , Reply# 14   11/23/2017 at 15:20 by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        

Ya,pet rocks more a gen.jones thing :)for millenials it is smartphone apps and I-tunes cards(at least my nephew anyway :)GEN.x was video games,skateboards... :)Funny how marketers are hovering over millenials,but many don't want to buy anything tangible or own a car,home,ETC...

Post# 969570 , Reply# 15   11/23/2017 at 15:31 by agiflow2 ()        

henene4 when you say advanced... in what ways are LG more advanced?.. . I mean something that has been standardized or some flashy gimmick? Did they invent some industry wide standard on their appliances? What advanced engineering does LG have that Whirlpool doesnt? Serious question.

For example, you have seen from this very website that WP had FL combo washers nearly 60 years ago that were "High Efficiency" long before the term was even around and heaters to boot! Recirculation pumps that only recently LG and Samsung use. Though that was a long time back.

LG dryers are a direct knockoff of WP built dryers. I don't really see the advanced engineering. LG makes products that are more prone to an early date with a landfill.

Just my opinion though.


Post# 969575 , Reply# 16   11/23/2017 at 15:43 by henene4 (Germany)        
More advanced

1. Actual weight sensing. WP still just adjusts by absorbency AFAIK on their FLs. LG has been truely sensing for load weight since day 1 basicly.
2. Recirculation. Why dosen't WP have that? Easy to add, huge boost in performance.
3. Spray rinsing. Basicly only avaible on LG.
4. Wash patterns. Just tumbling works fine. Stuff like distribution tumbles take that a step further on the LG.
5. Keep in mind they made steam a thing.


Post# 969585 , Reply# 17   11/23/2017 at 17:46 by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
OK

mark_wpduet's profile picture
My house is definitely a Whirlpool house - And since moving into my new home in 2004, I've had incredibly good luck with my WP appliances. They are all still here working over 13 years later, with the exception of the dishwasher, which was replaced just over 9 years old. The only repair has been the Duet washer (2nd year) and the side x side fridge had one small repair and a new ice maker we installed. That's it.

Now, about LG being more advanced - it's just Whirlpool could ADD more common sense things to their Front load washers. (aside from load sensing technology)

1. drain pump access
2. recirculation pump
3. spray rinse
4. water plus (or something similar)

These are reasons that I've been considering and LG with TurboWash as my next FL (but I haven't fully decided yet) It may be a while because my Duet is still working great.


Post# 969597 , Reply# 18   11/23/2017 at 19:34 by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        
@ agiflow

Refrigerators are dual evaporator, was the linear compressor. Wp is just bringing this stuff to market as of a few years ago.

Their stoves are good looking, functional, and the temps are pretty precise. Performance is probably not any better than a wp product

Their dryers are a electronic version of the 27Ē wp dryer. Wp makes a fantastic dryer, lg just improved it a bit more.

Their washers are better in just about every conceivable way.


Post# 969601 , Reply# 19   11/23/2017 at 20:08 by agiflow2 ()        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.



Post# 969606 , Reply# 20   11/23/2017 at 20:34 by Gyrafoam (Roanoke, VA)        

Sadly, trying to compare anything built today with something built more than ten years ago is not comparing apples to apples no matter who manufactures it.

Post# 969610 , Reply# 21   11/23/2017 at 20:58 by agiflow2 ()        

True Steve. The newest major appliance I purchased was a top mount refrigerator from WP this past June.. don't know if I will get 25 years like I did on the old WP but this unit is nice for what it is and seems well made. I guess anything today is a crap shoot.

Post# 970713 , Reply# 22   11/29/2017 at 21:51 by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
The only thing Whirlpool gained dominating the market the way it did was putting drop-down doors on Myrag dryers, and perhaps the triple-action Surgilator in Maytag's washers....

Quite a reflection of the quality and reliability, if there is such a define in the way each brand used to build its appliances reliably, they are about equal in that you're getting a Maytag that will work and last as long as a newer a Whirlpool, but at least a Whirlpool saved Maytag from the decline of machines that were more like the Admiral lines that they bought and built like...



-- Dave


Post# 970767 , Reply# 23   11/30/2017 at 10:49 by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        
Whirlpool household

My family is a Whirlpool household as well! Our family of three uses all appliances HEAVILY. The only thing "needing" a part is the Duet. It wasn't spinning easily and the repairman threw in a new control board just in case (warranty). Our dishwasher could be more solid inside, and the microwave handle is falling apart after 8 years, but again hard use. Whirlpool is definitely our brand of choice since we can't afford Miele. I will never purchase a Samsung appliance. Too many people I know have had major issues and repairs early on. Ironically, my grandparents have a brand new LG fridge that is very nice but has the linear compressor. It replaced a horribly unreliable and poorly engineered Amana fridge.

Post# 970807 , Reply# 24   11/30/2017 at 15:25 by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
I don't know that the pricing between WP, GE, LG, or Samsung are all that different....in checking pricing from place to place, maybe a 25 to 50 dollar difference, and that could just be a sale, but nothing major in pricing to jump for joy.....

just like theres not much of a price difference from shopping Sears, Lowes, HomeDepot, HHGregg, etc.....

I will admit, Samsung dryers are super quiet.....

and LG FL washers seem to have a lot of leaking from around the dispenser drawers, and hence rusting around the front area....

may not be all, just the ones I have come across all seem to have the same issues...


Post# 970818 , Reply# 25   11/30/2017 at 16:40 by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT)        
opinion from one cheapskate BOL consumer ...

firedome's profile picture
we've been extremely satisfied with 2 WP BOL top freezer fridges we bought, one 7 yrs ago for camp and one 2 yrs ago for here. Also a WP BOL TL washer 7 yrs ago, not one problem with any of them. Actually the same goes for a BOL GE d/w bought 8 yrs ago and a GE BOL TL washer a couple years ago. Zero issues and decent enough performance from all of them. Considering they were as about as low priced as any appliancesmade, if one goes belly up there's not too much to complain about, really, but we're not expecting that to happen any time soon. That said given a choice for new we'll buy US made, however the next house will be primarily vintage US stuff... just for fun!

Post# 970831 , Reply# 26   11/30/2017 at 18:48 by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

I find LG front loaders aren't nearly as flexible as Whirlpool and Maytag front loaders.  Steam is only relegated to certain cycles with LG.  and steam is a way to force the heater to heat up the water and get the environment inside the tub hotter.  You can't get extra hot or steam on LG's towels cycle.  LG's Perm Press cycle doesn't offer steam or extra hot.  I use steam option and hot water on my wrinkle free white dress shirts, gets those collars clean.  With Whirlpool I can opt for extra hot as well as steam on Towels cycle.  And same temperature option on Delicates.  Even steam and extra hot on quick wash.  On comparable Maytag Maxima extra hot and steam on Wrinkle Free (comparable to Whirlpool's Delicate) as well as Bedding, which I imagine is similar to Whirlpoo's Towels.  I want to be able to get any water temperature I can select.  Cold Water cycles are totally useless as far as I'm concerned. 


Post# 970900 , Reply# 27   12/1/2017 at 08:33 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
"Tariff"

On what exactly? Whirlpool imports it's parts. LG's, (at least ranges) for the US market are assembled in Mexico also.
Remember what the Japanese auto industry, then the Korean's did to avoid a tariff or high dollar exchange rate? They built plants here.
No offense to you Richard, happened before you were born or just a tott.
Before the pan pacific trade deal we just exited, things were as they are. Before NAFTA, we had many plants in Mexico. NAFTA mainly included Canada, and replaced the auto-pact, which made one go there if one came here. Inglis made their own machines in Canada before, until the old belt drive wig wag design was phased out there, later than in the US.
The ceo's of FCA, Ford, GM, etc. met with vice president Pence this week to discuss the movement of NAFTA revisions proposed by Trump. Activity has been slow.
I don't buy into what politicians say about much. They don't own the companies.
They try to pose as servants in order to become masters though.
The golden rule is he with the gold rules, and always follow the money.
The system is designed so the companies compete rather fairly. They all optimize for lowest cost of design and production to compete in the marketplace.
They are not going to spend billions of dollars and a decade if not two to build parts plants stateside again.
The bulk of manufacturing is now in Asia. We were told by 1990 that was how it was going to go. That the US would be a technical and financial and service majority economy. We haven't put all eggs into that basket. As robotic technology further advances, they will further replace humans in factories. Humans maintain them, and the computers and electrical components that control them, at least for a time. Artificial intelligence may enter into that much later. My guess is that Asia and China will beat us, at least during this administration. That is far different from building towers and oil rigs. The Microsoft, Apple, and other tech geniuses don't seem to have much influence at this time with govt.
Think for a minute, do you actually think Tesla motors, etc. would get any subsidies to start up under this administration? While many say Tesla is a failure, they have advanced battery technology, and sell enough cars to make a profit now.
Just my educated opinion being from the motor city, and having had a large enough corporate career knowing the dynamics.
My dad knew the Whirlpool Clyde division dynamics well also. They had and have their efficiency experts.


Post# 970902 , Reply# 28   12/1/2017 at 08:45 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Another example;

Europe already has automated robotic pharmacies. Will this eventually displace pharmacy techs? I don't know, but it may indeed.

Post# 970915 , Reply# 29   12/1/2017 at 09:25 by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        
Pharmacy Techs

Ohio is requiring that all technicians are registered through the state and pay annual fees. Sooner or later they will be requiring that we are all state certified. This will reduce the workforce quite a bit considering all the dinosaurs and less mentally capable people who work in our pharmacies. Unfortunately, Insurances are starting to mandate using mail order as well. But that's another topic!!

Post# 970924 , Reply# 30   12/1/2017 at 09:59 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Ohio also

made dietician's be not only registered, but licensed, where as Michigan did not.
By 1996, Michigan clinical dietician's were mostly part time, per diem, and or had their perks and benefits slashed. Many were bachelor of science degreed.

Richard, back in the 80's some Sony, Sanyo, Sharp, etc. televisons were assembled in California.


Post# 971161 , Reply# 31   12/2/2017 at 16:02 by speedqueen (Harrison Twp, Michigan)        
...Assembled in California

That only furthers my point and proves that the last bits of protectionism created jobs here. When the tariffs fell and the slanted trade deals came, those manufacturers moved production back to their home countries or China.

When a forign manufacturer has factories here, we get jobs. When a US company outsources labor we still get the profits(US shareholders) and tax dollars. When a forign manufacturer sells goods here we get NOTHING but the overpriced, cheaply made goods.

As to my age, were any historians around during the Roman Empire? I suggest that they be discredited as well, based on the same logic. I'm one of the sore few of my generation that laments the replacement of documentaries with reality TV on The History Channel. Don't even get me started on "Ancient Aliens"!!!


Post# 971277 , Reply# 32   12/3/2017 at 12:29 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Yes Richard, perhaps

and there are and were other factors besides that, and always the lowest cost to produce.
As factories built through the 1960's had asbestos, and other hazardous materials used in manufacturing, along with very old plants, it was also cheaper to open new ones elsewhere. Even the land had to be remediated of toxins. These are called EPA superfund sites. Heard of Love Canal where Hooker Chemical was near Niagra Falls NY? Another in our own backyard was Carboloy carbide tool at 8 mile and Hoover.
California too saw many close, not only in the rust belt. As avaiation declined after WW2 there, some remained open until the push for cleaner air, water, and land impacted them. The Ford plant in Pico Rivera closed in 1981, which was in part due to that and slower sales of full size cars. So production was consolidated between Hapeville Ga., and Oakville Ontario for both the east and west coasts.
Maybe one reason California has so many high tech jobs today, and is one of the worlds largest economies is that two years of college is paid for by the state.
Even those in agriculture graduate from USC, and other univeristies.
Not very many want monotonous factory production work these days. I never did.
My grandfather used to ask us, do you want to be smart, or be garbage man in his native Italian accent. He was a steel mill foreman. My dad used to tell us also "if you don't use your head, you use your feet, or hands." Even garbage collectors do better today than most small factory workers.


Post# 971286 , Reply# 33   12/3/2017 at 13:39 by speedqueen (Harrison Twp, Michigan)        

My mother used to work at former Carboloy which was once a division of General Electric. She worked in the office starting in the late 1970s as a PBX switchboard operator and worked up to being an inside sales representative, which, at the time, was the most coveted position in the office as corporate paid for travel expenses and work was like a perennial vacation. By the time she left to become a stay at home mother in 1999 all perks of the job were gone and "College Educated" employees were being hired that knew nothing real about their job.

As to Hooker Chemical, an often forgotten bit of history is that Hooker actually sealed in the waste site better than most were at the time. They lined and capped Love Canal with thick walls of clay, a practice still used today. They also didn't even want to sell the property as they thought it was a liability to do so, but the city begged them and eventually they decided to sell for $1 but included a disclaimer telling what the site was and that all responsibility was to the new owner, the City of Niagara Falls. It was the city who drew up the property boundaries, sold some land to a developer, and put the school dead center of the dump. They destroyed the clay cap during construction and the rest as we shall say is history.

An interesting fact is that during longitudinal studies of the cancer rate at Love Canal they determined that there wasn't an elevated occurrence.


Post# 971295 , Reply# 34   12/3/2017 at 14:31 by johnrk (Houston)        
Washer Prices

Fortunately, whoever sells pdf's of ephemera on here has sold me the 1954 Cooper Supply Catalog, which appears to be a very comprehensive distributor of TV's, radios, and major appliances.

Looking in there at washers, the automatics that would compare to our machines today average $300, with GE's best at $350. Maytag isn't distributed by them, but every other major and minor brand appears to be there (except Sears and Wards, of course).

The exchange rate between 1954 and today is $ 1:8.98. So, basically all the major washers brands for automatics would be roughly $2700 in today's money. And remember, their salaries were lower than today's, even though the average annual income in this country hasn't gone up since 1973, in constant money.

So, if I paid a little under $900 for the SQ 432 that I bought a couple of months ago, dividing it by 9 would mean that it would've cost only $100 in 1954. One hundred Dollars then would only buy an off-brand, probably crappy wringer washer.

So what can we expect? If Whirlpool, SQ, GE, etc., could build and sell their machines for $2700 I expect we'd get a lot better and more durable machines. As my local appliance dealer told me when I bought that w/d pair, the margins for manufacturers of washers in particular has gotten so slim that they just aren't that interested in them any more. It's worth thinking about.


Post# 971371 , Reply# 35   12/3/2017 at 22:35 by speedqueen (Harrison Twp, Michigan)        
1954 Prices...

John, could you tell me what the price of my 1954 Bendix Duomatic(electric) was? Sorry to bother you with the request.

Thanks, in advance.
-Richard


Post# 971414 , Reply# 36   12/4/2017 at 06:41 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Richard;

My friend (not college degreed) worked at Carboloy from 1994 through 2005. Seco Tools of Sweden already owned it. He also worked in the office building as a c.a.d. designer. His boss, and several others died of cancer. By 2006, most of the staff and shop floor had been laid off. The Tennessee plant remained open. A few transferred there. None of the displaced qualified for retraining under the TRA act because their jobs weren't auto industry direct related, even though they supplied the cutting bits that made drive axles for the auto industry.
Back in the GE days, or before, the facility had a bank, and a pharmacy for workers he told me.





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