Thread Number: 73450  /  Tag: Twin-Tub Washers
1961 Duo-Matic Twin Tub
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Post# 969885   11/25/2017 at 14:02 by triumphdolomite (Staffs(UK))        

Thanks to a couple of tip offs from Darren and Al last weekend I've had a trip to Cambridge today to collect a Duo-Matic twinny. I have to say I don't really know a lot about Duo-Matic except I think they were the predecessors to the Rolls family of twin tubs. I do have to say that it seems to be of better build quality than the Rolls, it's certainly a lot heavier. Differences I've noticed so far are:-
Washdeck is a heavy enamel, washer and spinner are both direct drive, both pumps also direct drive from the other end of the motor, no 'suds jet' on the wash side, there should be two separate emptying hoses but the wash side has broken away. Does anyone know how this worked, did it just hang over the side of the wash tub to recirculate the water or did it have a stopper in the end you just removed to empty. It does still have what I think is its rinse hose, although it's way beyond redemption, this only fits the hole in the spinner lid but by the very small hole in the adapter it might take a while to deliver enough water for rinsing. Only managed to take a few pictures before the camera battery gave up, I'll see if I can get some more done when I've tidied it up a bit. Finally I noticed as I put it into the car that the old girl celebrated her 56th birthday nearly three weeks ago, marked on the bottom is 6/11/61 which I'm guessing must either have been the build date or someone marked it when they purchased it.
Ian


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Post# 969888 , Reply# 1   11/25/2017 at 14:12 by johnrk (BP TX)        
Congratulations!

I've always wanted a twin tub, actually have thought about buying a Danby over the past few years. We never sold those in the volume that you did in GB.

Post# 971672 , Reply# 2   12/5/2017 at 07:53 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Rolls "Duo-matic" twin-tub, 1963.

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The Science Museum dates it as 1963, as shown in the link. Indeed, it is described as a "Rolls Duo-matic" by the Science Museum.

I like the look of it. The Rolls Rapide was obviously a cheaper version.

Do you suppose that the Duomatic was possibly the imported, re-badged version, before John Bloom of Rolls Razor cottoned on to making the machines here?

Anyway, it's fabulous that you got your mitts on it! Well done.

Image courtesy and copyright of Science Museum / Science & Society Picture Library.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Rolls_rapide's LINK


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Post# 971676 , Reply# 3   12/5/2017 at 08:02 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Look at this!

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The rinse hose...!

The photo below shows the wash tub. Inside is the rinse hose.

Notice that the rinse hose apparently has a cream-coloured plastic tube protruding from it. I presume, attached to the small hole in photo #5 of Ian's pics.

Image courtesy and copyright of Science Museum / Science & Society Picture Library.


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Post# 971691 , Reply# 4   12/5/2017 at 10:06 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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In "Critique of Entrepreneurship: People and Policy
By Peter Armstrong", he states that:

"..Bloom hired private detectives who traced the machines from Schroutens' factory to the Duomatic warehouse..."

It appears Duomatic was a competitor to Rolls. Indeed this info might prove useful:

"In Autumn 1962, when Rolls were selling 2,500 machines per week, Duomatic were selling 700 - still imported from Holland."

And not long after Rolls collapsed, "Duomatic itself folded shortly afterwards."


Post# 971693 , Reply# 5   12/5/2017 at 10:30 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Rolls apparently started with the Rolls 'Electromatic' machine. Then a name change to 'Starmatic'. But the first Starmatics had imported motors with a wiring defect and were blowing up in kitchens.

The first successful model was the Rolls 66.


Post# 971697 , Reply# 6   12/5/2017 at 10:52 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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It appears that Bloom tried and failed to negotiate supplies of the automatic marketed by Duomatic.

I suppose it must have been this one... apparently dated 1964, according to the newspaper.

Courtesy of the Shropshire Star newspaper.


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Post# 971705 , Reply# 7   12/5/2017 at 11:32 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Here is an advert for the Duomatic 'Triumph' twintub, in TV-Times magazine from May 1963.

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Post# 971706 , Reply# 8   12/5/2017 at 11:37 by matchboxpaul (Just north of Derby, U.K)        

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Thanks for sharing the image of the Duomatic Automaster - never seen one of the those before.

Would appear that, if Bloom failed to negotiate with the builders of Duomatic's automatic, he then popped over to Italy and had words with REX-Zanussi!

The result was the Rolls Robot ....


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Post# 971707 , Reply# 9   12/5/2017 at 11:48 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Courtesy of Al (Vacbear58)

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Post# 971715 , Reply# 10   12/5/2017 at 12:20 by triumphdolomite (Staffs(UK))        
Thanks

For all the extra information. I'm guessing it must be quite an early machine if the Science museum think 1963 and the 1962 quote above says Duomatic were only selling 700 imported machines. The date written underneath is 1961, sadly the rating plate is only a sticker most of which is missing, you can see the remains in picture 4, so it doesn't say where it was made.
I've also found a tiny sticker on the front panel by the red light that says De Lux Model, I;m not sure what makes it more de lux than the popular in the advert above!
I presume the Automaster was an H axis machine also of Dutch manufacture.
Ian.


Post# 971718 , Reply# 11   12/5/2017 at 12:43 by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield & London UK)        
Duomatic

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Well what a load of interesting stuff has emerged about this machine :)

I had wondered if these were the original Dutch design that I thought the Rolls was derived from with Rolls taking out as much of the cost as possible - lighter guage metal, a constant re-circulating pump for the wash tub rather than a separate motor and perhaps smaller capacity.

I wonder how this machine, with its bottom pulsator, would have performed without the recirculation jet to keep the clothes under water - this has been noted as a problem with the AEG model although perhaps with a circular tub thsi might not have been so much of an issue.

I completely forgot I had that advertisment (and honestly I thought it was a Rolls) - I need to get a spreadsheet going of my literature.

I am staggered that the price of that automatic machine could have been so low, unless they were able to buy a bulk load of machines that were going to be replaced.


Post# 971725 , Reply# 12   12/5/2017 at 13:05 by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield & London UK)        
Which 1964

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In doing a bit of research my first point of call was Which, and the first reference I have to Duomatic is in 1964 - there may have been an earlier report which I do not have scanned.

In the table on Page 2 there Duomatic machine seems to be rather larger than the Rolls derived machines: Bylock (owned by Rolls at this time), Goblin, English Electric, and the two Rolls Models - with a curious diversity in sizes in each of those - I think there must be a mistake in the table as they all appear to be teh same price the Rolls in particular looks incorrect. This report came out more or less at the time that Rolls went bust. The washing capacity of the Duomatic is larger too

In reading the report it is also curious to note the variation in results between machines which appear, at least superficially, to be identical although it appears that the Bylock did not have the re-cirulation jet so the EE gets a very good rating and yet others do not. Shame there are not more pictures of the machines ....


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Post# 971758 , Reply# 13   12/5/2017 at 16:33 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
1963 Acme 'Conquest' Advert

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Courtesy of Clydesdale Electrical Stores, and Grace's Guide for retaining the advert!

And thanks, Al, for the vintage Which? data!


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Post# 971766 , Reply# 14   12/5/2017 at 16:52 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Mixed bag of Twin Tubs...

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Courtesy of a previous posting by Chestermikeuk...

AEG Lavalux Super,
Brunlec Twin Spin,
Hoover 65,
Acme Twin Speed,
Stokvis Twin Tub...

Most should match Al's Which? report.


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Post# 971770 , Reply# 15   12/5/2017 at 16:56 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
More...

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Again courtesy of Chestermikeuk...

Hotpoint Supermatic,
Easytwin,
GEC Space-Saver


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Post# 971777 , Reply# 16   12/5/2017 at 17:51 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
1960 Rolls Electromatic

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Courtesy of Pinterest

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Post# 971791 , Reply# 17   12/5/2017 at 18:51 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Rolls Starmatic

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Courtesy of Manchestervacs

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Post# 971792 , Reply# 18   12/5/2017 at 18:56 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Easitwin Twin Tub

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Again, courtesy of Manchestervacs.

I spelt Easitwin wrongly earlier above in the thread as 'Easytwin'


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Post# 971797 , Reply# 19   12/5/2017 at 19:40 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
1964 Rolls Concorde

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Courtesy P. Townsend, via Flickr

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Post# 971799 , Reply# 20   12/5/2017 at 19:52 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Reply #8

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Matchboxpaul:

I myself had no idea about the Duomatic 'Automaster', nor the Rolls 'Robot' until this thread today!

Thanks for the Rolls 'Robot' advert. I wonder if any were ever made or sold?


Post# 971865 , Reply# 21   12/6/2017 at 03:18 by keymatic (Surrey.U.K)        

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Dear All,

Great info coming out here...I did wonder what the Automaster looked like.

I found a pic in the archives of the "Concorde's" in action

Cheers
Keith


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Post# 971869 , Reply# 22   12/6/2017 at 05:49 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Am saying it again

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You want to sit down and weep thinking of British housewives being saddled with twin tubs/semi automatics for so long after the war.

Post# 971885 , Reply# 23   12/6/2017 at 07:00 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Duomatic 'Automaster'

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There appears to have been ANOTHER Duomatic 'Automaster'!

The machine in the advert posted above in Reply #6, apparently is a top loader.

Which? of November 1964 reports that the Duomatic 'Automaster' was no longer available by direct sale (Duomatic Organisation liquidated voluntarily).

However the similar Castor Queenmatic was available in the shops - and it was very similar to the Castor Unidry on test - minus the tumble drying feature.

Thus the front loading Duomatic 'Automaster' must have looked like this Castor Unidry...

Courtesy of Paulinroynton


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Post# 971888 , Reply# 24   12/6/2017 at 07:03 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Here is the text about the similarities.

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Post# 971892 , Reply# 25   12/6/2017 at 07:26 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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I am wondering if the front loading Duomatic 'Automaster' (Castor variant) was the one that John Bloom of Rolls had his eye on?

This might explain his Rolls 'Robot' front loader (Imperial Rex variant). Duomatic and Rolls seem to have been pretty much tit-for-tat copy-cats.

But where did the top-loading 'Automaster' come from? Was it an older model before the Castor variant?

Which? does say that the front loading version was on sale until Duomatic liquidated. So one presumes the top-loader was a prior dalliance in automatic washing.


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Post# 971895 , Reply# 26   12/6/2017 at 08:19 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Duomatic 'Triumph' Twin tub

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This is another advert for the 'Triumph', as in Reply #7.

This was advertised in some 1960s pop music magazine - hence the 'Top of the Pops' banner.

(Personally, I'm willing to bet that 'hip Sixties chicks' were wanting fully automatic machines!)

Courtesy of Flickr.


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Post# 971896 , Reply# 27   12/6/2017 at 08:21 by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield & London UK)        
Rolls Robot

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I think you are right on the money as regards the Imperial Rex (later Zanussi???) being "badged" to become the Rolls Robot, probably buying up a batch of them in rather the same way as whoever was the distributor or the Imperial branded machine.

I have the impression that Duomatic were operating in much the same way buying up batches of machines for sale of varying types - it makes me smile to see how Duomatic emphasise in their ads on how there are no gimmicks, no extras as opposed to Rolls who are offering all sorts of extras to induce the purchase.

I am hoping that Louis will have something to add to this thread as the the twintubs seem to come from Holland and an H Axis top loader seems almost certain to be European too. I did wonder if Duomatic was set up by a former Rolls employee to "play them at their own game"

As regards twin tubs Vs automatics it seems to me to be a combination of timing and manufacture. It seems to be that from about 1948 to 1973 the market UK washing machine market was driven by Hoover. Although it was a technically simple machine and indeed rather smaller capacity than competitors (Hotpoint, Servis and the new kid on the block at that time Ada) it was so heavily promoted (and on the reputation of Hoover cleaners too) taht it took the market by storm as it was also cheap (and bear in mind we had a punitative sales tax too) and would easily fit in a small British kitchens too - as the saying goes "its better than going down to a river and beating them on a rock". 10 years later Hoover do it again with the launch of the Hoovermatic - mature technology for them at the time - a premium priced machine that must have cost a great deal less to manufacture because it was still simpler than the competition. With a relaxing of credit restrictions again it took the market by storm and it was into this market place that John Bloom launched Rolls. Again the machines were very heavily promoted (and lets not forget Bloom's association with Charles Colston - the man who set up Hoover in the UK and made it a bigger company than its American owner) just as the Hoovers were with press advertising and product placement.

Aspirations were rising and it was no longer as acceptable for women to stand at a sink for hours and, even better, they did not have to wring the clotes either. One step up again. It took really about abother 15 years or so for the balance to tip in favour of FL automatics so that "Wash day? Just forget it" became the norm for the British housewife/consumer - and for a most of that time Hoover were still selling thousands of high margin twin tubs which were MUCH more profitable than automatics and it was in their interest to keep it that way, eevn though they did have a range of automatics too


Post# 971899 , Reply# 28   12/6/2017 at 08:40 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Duomatic Advert, 1962

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Courtesy of Retropia

Notice the reply coupon (just legible)... it lists the 'Popular' and 'De Luxe' models!


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Post# 971900 , Reply# 29   12/6/2017 at 08:47 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Acme 'Conquest', 1963

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Matches Reply #13

Again, courtesy of Retropia.


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Post# 971901 , Reply# 30   12/6/2017 at 08:53 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Duomatic Twintub

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Courtesy the Corby News

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Post# 971903 , Reply# 31   12/6/2017 at 08:59 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Rolls 'Super 66'

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Courtesy of Alamy.

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Post# 971905 , Reply# 32   12/6/2017 at 09:15 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Regarding Reply #4

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It is said in Peter Armstrong's publication that the way that Bloom (of Rolls), and Elvins (formerly of Rolls, latterly of Duomatic), and the Dutch Schrouten brothers went about things, it was like watching pantomime villains in action - the way they tripped over themselves.

So much spivvery and skulduggery going on between this lot, it's no wonder it was called the washing machine wars!


Post# 971907 , Reply# 33   12/6/2017 at 09:43 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

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At this moment I have little to contribute to this topic. In another thread I mentioned that it is possible that Rolls machines were made by the "Domestic Wasmachinefabriek" in Amerongen. There is hardly any information about that factory. However I found someone on Facebook who was once an employee at Domestic. He isn't very active on Facebook so I can only hope that he reads my message and shed some light on it.

As for the Automaster, I have no idea who made it. I will have a look through my old advertisements. Perhaps something similar was made in the NL.

BTW, in the eighties Castor was a cheap line of Zanussi products. I used one at a camping site near Venice.


Post# 971912 , Reply# 34   12/6/2017 at 09:59 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Automatics

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Indeed so. I remember my mum was liberated in 1980! It was fabulous. My gran was liberated in 1982.

Post# 971914 , Reply# 35   12/6/2017 at 10:00 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        
Dutch Schrouten brothers

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Or was the name Schouten?

Post# 971916 , Reply# 36   12/6/2017 at 10:08 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

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Never mind, I found the article. Schrouten indeed. Never heard of the name before.

Post# 972106 , Reply# 37   12/7/2017 at 08:12 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
For clarification purposes...

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The story so far...

Having basically imported virtually complete Schroutens' machines, with a tax-dodge by installing Hoover motors,


Peter Armstrong's book says:

"The intention now was for Rolls to assemble the machines, mainly from parts supplied by Schroutens, but using some made by themselves 'at a considerable saving'."

and:

"Bloom's account makes it quite clear that the parts to be manufactured by Rolls would be direct copies of those in the Schrouten machines."

thus:

"Schroutens' reaction was a clandestine approach to Elvins (Roll's sales director), inviting him to take charge of an operation to sell their machines direct to the public in the UK, under the name Duomatic. This would be in direct competition with Rolls Razor."

So, Duomatic Organisation was not connected to Rolls Electromatic, other than sharing the general design and some parts. They were in fact bitter rivals, Schroutens and Duomatic Organisation on one side, and Rolls Electromatic on the other.


Post# 972107 , Reply# 38   12/7/2017 at 08:25 by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield & London UK)        
Even more clarification

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I doubt very much that Hoover would have supplied motors to a very obvious competitor however their motors where supplied by Bylock - known mainly for making vacuum cleaners - a bit of UK terminology (often Hoover - Vacuum Cleaner) may have muddied the waters.

In fact Rolls took over Bylock in 1963 so of course it crashed when Rolls went down.

Al


Post# 972108 , Reply# 39   12/7/2017 at 08:41 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Re: the Hoover motors

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I thought that too, that Hoover were unlikely to do that. However, Hoover have supplied motors to other manufacturers - I once came across a factory with an industrial fan heater (steam pipe radiator type suspended from the ceiling). The fan blades were operated by a Hoover induction motor.

Anyway, the book says:

"The easiest way to qualify (for the Purchase Tax dodge), he decided, was to buy motors from Hoover and install them in otherwise complete machines. In this oblique manner, Bloom became a manufacturer."


Post# 972110 , Reply# 40   12/7/2017 at 08:45 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Hoover might have been willing to sell to an unknown company in 1960, but once they knew what he was up to, they might then reconsider their sales of parts.

Post# 972111 , Reply# 41   12/7/2017 at 08:50 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

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I have searched for Schrouten etc. especially in Dutch ofcourse. Nothing!

I have found only one ad for a Dutch made toploader, a Ruton. Ruton was later purchased by Philips. I'll post the picture here for the fun of it and also so we can establish there aren't any similarity between the Ruton and the Duomatic Automaster.



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Post# 972119 , Reply# 42   12/7/2017 at 09:24 by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield & London UK)        
Hoover motors

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Indeed Hoover did supply motors, occasionally you see adverts on ebay for them, but I doubt they would have supplied these - the ads generally show larger, industral style motors. When I am back home I will check to see if there is any indication when Bylock began the supply.

Are you reading this article on line or did you buy the book?

Louis, thank you for your research, interesting picture, when might this be from?

Now something occurs to me. It looks like the Automaster is an H Axis machine but the impression I have is that the tub is aligned from side to side rather than front to back. The first Philips top loaders that I know of also had the tub in this alignment (made in Halifax in what started out as the Ada factory) before changing to the more familiar front to back format. I wonder if Philips picked up some other company along the way? I have articles with Philips toploaders at least to 1968, there was a new model in 1969.

Just out of interest Louis have you any reference to Colston dishwashers or indeed any Colston appliances being sold in Holland?

Al


Post# 972120 , Reply# 43   12/7/2017 at 09:37 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Thanks Louis.

I got the impression that the top-loading Duomatic 'Automaster' was more of a tub-type machine - the way the woman in the Duomatic advert is attending to the machine. She doesn't look as though she is fighting sprung drum hatches.


Post# 972121 , Reply# 44   12/7/2017 at 09:40 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Reading it online...

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And Google Books' 'preview only' is a right royal pain! (pages edited out of my particular view).

Post# 972130 , Reply# 45   12/7/2017 at 11:30 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

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I agree, Google Books is a PITA!

The ad of the Ruton toploader is from December 24 1965.

Philips had quite a few series of toploaders. I think some models might have been manufactured at the same time. There was the CC1000 60cm wide line, the 45cm Slimstar (also named CC1000 in the NL), the 40cm Slimstar models (several generations) and the earlier 40cm (or a bit less?) toploaders with the glass lids. Etc. etc.

I think I have seen a few Colston ads, but I can't find them at the moment. I have quite a few ads that I have to sort out, the files only have a number now. When I have done that, the plan is to share them here.

Yes, the Duomatic Automaster could be a V-axis machine. But we don't know for sure, the drum could be low in the cabinet so that you can't see the hatches.


Post# 972140 , Reply# 46   12/7/2017 at 12:42 by keymatic3203 (Cardiff UK)        
Great thread

always interesting to find out something new about topics we've speculated over when discussing the history of appliance and manufacturers.

With regard to the automaster, I would have thought a no suspension, slow speed spin drum type would be the cheapest to build, thinking along the lines of the original indesit, only a thought mind.

Laundress, don't weep for all, I know that one programme on advertising said that heavy promotion kept women using twin tubs long after they were obsolete in other countries, but I can think of at least 10 first hand examples where the housewife had the choice of machines and still chose a twin tub. One I recall was back in the eighties, the husband bought a tol hoover automatic, was installed in the morning and by the afternoon it was sent back and exchanged for a twin tub, with washing for a large family, many women just preferred to put the effort in for an hour or so and clear the washing basket. I know you've said the similar, when you got your lovely Maytag wringer. On the other hand my grandmother held out in the 50's against both a wringer washer and a twin tub, rather waiting for something better, so in 1959 when the english electric liberator, ( westinghouse space mate) came out, she chose that, and several of her friend bought the same machine. But in my generation growing up in the 70's my mum and all my friends had automatics, the twin tubs were found with the previous generation. And many friends here in the uk can tell similar accounts.

I can't say for all english electric twin tubs, but I know from literature Mike has that the `twin star' at least, had a different wash tub and impellor than the Rolls/duomatic etc. It was a squared off tub with an angled base with an impellor more like a smaller diameter hoover pulsator, it was belt driven from a brush motor, similar to the one used for the spin dryers, so that accounts for the different wash ratings and the description of a `very vigorous wash action'.

Rolls. Al and Louis Keep the information coming, great to read.

Mathew




Post# 972151 , Reply# 47   12/7/2017 at 13:50 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        
Colston dishwashers

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Just a little sidestep. I found a few Colston dishwashers advertised.

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Post# 972156 , Reply# 48   12/7/2017 at 14:08 by triumphdolomite (Staffs(UK))        

I'm enjoying all this extra fascinating information coming out about the Duomatic, I'll see if I can have a look at the motors tomorrow to see if there is any identification on them to see if that helps.
Ian


Post# 972160 , Reply# 49   12/7/2017 at 14:30 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Al mentioned 'Ada'...

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...in Reply #27.

It appears to be an agitator washer.

Courtesy of Grace's Guide.


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Post# 972161 , Reply# 50   12/7/2017 at 14:36 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Ada Dishwasher

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Purely for reference purposes.

Courtesy of Grace's Guide.


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Post# 972171 , Reply# 51   12/7/2017 at 15:56 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
As per the book...

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It appears that Bloom first sourced his machines from the Dutch Klean Company; Bloom was operating as the Continental Washing Machine Company, at that time.

When Klean refused to make a cheaper machine for him, he went to Schroutens' who did.

Then a little later all the Rolls Electromatic manufacturing problems, and the Schroutens' Duomatic underhand double-dealing shenanigans kicked off.

(There's more intrigue in this story, than an episode of 'Versailles'!)


Post# 972307 , Reply# 52   12/8/2017 at 08:07 by triumphdolomite (Staffs(UK))        
Underneath

I've taken a few pics underneath this morning. There appears to be some 'interesting' wiring going on with the main connections being inside a sort of plastic cup as in the last picture.
The spin motor has very little identification on it, certainly no makers name. The wash motor however has a plate on saying it was made by Newman Industries of Yate, I had a quick google and it seems they were close by the Parnall works. Odd if Newmans were supplying washer motors at this time as my Parnall Spinwasher has a Ranco motor from Glasgow.
Sadly it doesn't seem to clear up much in the way of the Duomatic questions other than I would expect it to have been made in the UK as I can't imagine shipping Dutch built machines in without motors.
Ian


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Post# 972314 , Reply# 53   12/8/2017 at 08:32 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
shipping Dutch built machines without motors

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I can see why they might do exactly that.

Bloom himself cottoned on to the fact that that his Rolls company could avoid Purchase Tax by shipping in partly completed machines - and install Hoover's motors.

This way the tax payments could be legally delayed for a few months, rather than having to be paid immediately as with an imported fully operational machine.

I myself wondered if the top-loading Duomatic 'Automaster' was based on a Parnall Spinwasher...?


Post# 972315 , Reply# 54   12/8/2017 at 08:33 by keymatic3203 (Cardiff UK)        
Hi Rolls, just for interest

As you say the Ada was a agitator washer, but it doesn't have a gearbox like the Servis etc, it's a simple mechanism like the modern velo/norfrost twin tub, also found on their wringer washers, it's like a polyester/canvas strap on a sort of bow that rolls it back and forth, producing that short fast stroke.

I've been told this was a common repair on these machines back in the day.

Ian, do I make out that the spin motor on the duomatic reads 1400 rpm, so quite a low spin speed for a twin tub, but whilst always remembering, it was affordable and better than a wringer.

One question I've been meaning to look up, how does the price of one of these cheaper twin tubs compare to that of buying a wash boiler and a separate spin dryer. I just ask, as we've often questioned the wash performance, but if they are in the same price range, then would a heated rolls or duomatic, be a better deal than a more premium brand boiler and spin dryer, say burco and creda? as if so you would get a wash boiler, washing machine and pumped spindryer for a similar cost. As I say I should look it up.

Mathew


Post# 972318 , Reply# 55   12/8/2017 at 08:36 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
1964 Novum Twintub

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Looks like a Duomatic clone.

Courtesy of esbarchives.


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Post# 972322 , Reply# 56   12/8/2017 at 08:53 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Novum

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Sales blurb

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Post# 972328 , Reply# 57   12/8/2017 at 09:23 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
A legacy of the Duomatic Company...

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It appears that there were some shenanigans at Duomatic Ltd too.

The particular legal framework is commonly known as The Duomatic Principle - but it actually extends further back in time, to earlier cases.

Wikipaedia gives some info.

More at Swarb:

swarb.co.uk/in-re-duomatic-ltd-ch...

If you go to the swarb link, it mentions some key players - including the Mr Elvins formerly of Rolls Electromatic!




CLICK HERE TO GO TO Rolls_rapide's LINK


Post# 972346 , Reply# 58   12/8/2017 at 10:23 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Another 1960's Duomatic advert.

Courtesy of Alamy.


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Post# 972347 , Reply# 59   12/8/2017 at 10:23 by triumphdolomite (Staffs(UK))        
Mathew

Yes it does say 1400rpm so not that quick, but I guess it will pump out quite quickly running the pump at that speed. The wash motor picture didn't come out too clearly but I think that looks like it says 425rpm, I did think it was 1425rpm at first but after a thought sanity prevailed! LOL.
Ian


Post# 972348 , Reply# 60   12/8/2017 at 10:28 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Duomatic Motor

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Ian, in your photo #1, it shows the ratings plate. Notice that the "Duo-matic" name is slightly displaced - like a stuck-on label.

What does it say under this 'sticker'?


Post# 972353 , Reply# 61   12/8/2017 at 10:52 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Bloom's Crisis

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Dated Monday, July 20th 1964.

Courtesy of littlereddog and of course the Daily Mirror.

You might find it a tad clearer following the link, and clicking on their magnification.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Rolls_rapide's LINK


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Post# 972355 , Reply# 62   12/8/2017 at 10:59 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
And two days prior...

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Courtesy of littlereddog and Daily Mirror.


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Post# 972358 , Reply# 63   12/8/2017 at 11:08 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Link

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Here's the link I missed out for the 18th July paper.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Rolls_rapide's LINK


Post# 972398 , Reply# 64   12/8/2017 at 15:54 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Rolls Automatic...

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Courtesy of: "The Quistclose Trust: Critical Essays" edited by William Swadling.

It appears that the Rolls 'Robot' automatic never made it to the doorstep of the housewife.

I had wondered if the Rolls 'Robot' advert (posted further up this thread), if it was even a real product. I had considered that it might have been a gimmick published by Rolls, in order to deflect interest away from Duomatic's 'Automaster'.



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Post# 972519 , Reply# 65   12/9/2017 at 07:10 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Referencing Thread Number: 28764

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And Gary's (aka 'electron1100')'s Burco '21', Al ('vacbear58') included a Which? Report from October 1967.

There is a make of twin-tub called: Latham 'HJL-707 Mk V'.

A footnote says: "Sold mainly in London and Home Counties - also sold elsewhere as Anglia, Collier, Crown, DES, Duomatic, Kerstar, Osprey, Reliance, Twinmaster and Winsten."


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Post# 972525 , Reply# 66   12/9/2017 at 07:44 by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan)        

Could someone make a quick summary of exactly what happened-the chronology and situation is kind of scattered over this thread? From what I can gather, Hoover was the class-act in the twin-tub space; then two low-end competitors came out and did each other in (with a direct-selling model), leaving Hoover relatively unscathed. Or, is there a link to a business-school case or something? It sounds a little like Mad Man Muntz and television in the US in the mid to late 50s.


Post# 972529 , Reply# 67   12/9/2017 at 08:25 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Hoover was the market leader in the 1950s, and was joined by AEI-Hotpoint. They were the two big players.

Rolls Razor/Rolls Electromatic then launched cheap machines around 1960, countered by Duomatic Organisation.

Snapshot #2 below, the text starts off "The major manufacturers, Hoover and Hotpoint... "

Courtesy of The Quistclose Trust: Critical Essays.
Available via Google Books, but Google's preview is a complete pain (pages edited out of certain views).


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Post# 972531 , Reply# 68   12/9/2017 at 08:30 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Apparently Which? criticised a competitor machine in April 1964...

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Post# 972612 , Reply# 69   12/9/2017 at 16:05 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
The criticised competitor machine...

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Would appear to be Duomatic.

Al's Which? 1964 (Reply #12, photo #5) says that the Duomatic machine was badly designed and constructed, failed 15 of the British Standard requirements, and failed the earth leakage safety test.


Post# 972848 , Reply# 70   12/10/2017 at 15:55 by keymatic3203 (Cardiff UK)        
Rolls Robot

Hi Rolls rapide

I did meet a lady who had a rolls robot. I was collecting a Parnall dryer some years back now, from somewhere near Reading. I met both the owner and her daughter and when we got talking about why I was interested in the dryer, they told me about their first washing machine, does rolls robot mean anything? well of course I knew a version of the story that Rolls went under trying to launch an automatic, but this was long before I'd known anymore. Obviously asking more, she was looking into what washing machine to buy (bearing in mind she already had the dryer, it was the 50's model, so would presume looking to replace a wringer type). The rolls man came, but said the company had gone into liquidation, he had a few of the robots on the van he was selling off cheap for cash with no guarantee, so she thought the price was worth taking the chance on. So in what numbers, probably very few, but they did exist.

Apparently they had good service out of it, before her husband cut the cabinet up to build a boat, like you would lol. She laughed and said at their golden wedding, she'd been married to him for 30 years and that boat for 20.

Always good to hear these real life stories.

Mathew


Post# 972852 , Reply# 71   12/10/2017 at 16:09 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Wow!

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Mathew, thanks!

The husband vandalised a good machine? Tut tut!

So a few did make it to market, but in very limited numbers.
It's good to know that you can't believe everything you read (regarding the official accounts of the case).


Post# 972882 , Reply# 72   12/10/2017 at 19:44 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Duomatic brief history

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Courtesy of "Company Law in Context: Text and Materials" by David Kershaw.

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Post# 972976 , Reply# 73   12/11/2017 at 10:23 by Alanlondon (London)        
Some more literature

Fascinating read here, really enjoying it. Thought I'd add some bits and pieces I have, one leaflet I saw you have as well Keith on the other post. I have a parts book (40 pages, so have been selective). And then finally the Colston Concorde, the last guise of this machine I believe. Cheers Alan

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Post# 972978 , Reply# 74   12/11/2017 at 10:28 by Alanlondon (London)        
Few more pages...



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Post# 972982 , Reply# 75   12/11/2017 at 10:40 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Alanlondon

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Thanks for the brochures. My gran must have had the Rolls 'Rapide de luxe' because it definitely had the oval red heater lamp upon the control panel.

And you're perfectly correct, it is a fascinating read, finding all the separate bits of info dotted about all over the place. Some of the information supplied by some of the more official sources of the period have proven not to be correct (eg the Rolls 'Robot') - supposedly none had appeared - but Mathew says he met a woman who had that very automatic!


Post# 972985 , Reply# 76   12/11/2017 at 10:55 by keymatic3203 (Cardiff UK)        
Thanks Alan

for more great reading. I'm familiar with the rapide de luxe as I have both the book and machine, but have whilst knowing about the autorinse, never read about it before.

I had always assumed it was just in essense a spin timer, with a jet flowing over the spin dryer. Can you or anyone else confirm whether it had a valve that controlled the water flow and switched off after rinsing or as I presume the operator would have to turn the tap off when the timer got to the end of the rinse time, therefore not being quite the autorinse it may be sold as. I know a parts wholesale I knew well, worked on rolls and subsequently tallent machines in the late 60's and said a lot of people spent a lot more money just to get a water jet, but couldn't remember, but doubted it actually switched the water on and off.

I suppose this in today's terms would be classic up selling.

Mathew


Post# 972992 , Reply# 77   12/11/2017 at 11:42 by Alanlondon (London)        
Auto rinse

Hi Keith, I've looked in the service manual and can see a wiring diagram that hints that there perhaps was a valve for this auto rinse, but then on the exploded views there's no sight of such an arrangement...so bit of a mystery?

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Post# 972994 , Reply# 78   12/11/2017 at 11:48 by Alanlondon (London)        
Yes I think there was a valve!

Just looked again at the picture and you can see it connected to the tap!

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Post# 972999 , Reply# 79   12/11/2017 at 11:56 by keymatic3203 (Cardiff UK)        
Thanks

again, this is great to see, I agree that tap connection looks more robust than the usual rubber funnel shape hose ends.

Now for an exploded view to see the jet arrangement. lol oh just great to have these questions answered.


Post# 973024 , Reply# 80   12/11/2017 at 14:57 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Autorinse

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The photo in Reply #78 shows a mixer tap with a substantial tap adapter (i.e. to keep the hose on the end of the tap).

Reply #77 shows the wiring diagram where the valve is electrical - thus it must be situated in the machine.

The question is: is the Autorinse function like the Hoovermatic type, where the water level gets to a certain height and is spun out automatically - until the user turns off the tap?

Or is it more like an automatic washing machine valve, which switches the flow on and off? This might explain the beefier tap adapter.

Mysteries everywhere...! Lol




Post# 973052 , Reply# 81   12/11/2017 at 15:50 by triumphdolomite (Staffs(UK))        
Rolls

I think it is as Mathew said earlier that the control is a timed operation. The wiring diagram doesn't seem to show a pressure switch, like a Hoovermatic, so I'm guessing the timer switches the valve and water runs into the spinner, it then switches the water off and spins out. The things I'm not too sure about is the difference between 'full cycle' and 'rinse spin', whether the spin motor is running throughout the whole cycle and how many times it would do this.
What I do find interesting is in Alan's reply 73 picture 11 shows the price comparison with the fully automatic machines.
I certainly didn't expect the purchase of the Duomatic to provoke such a wealth of information. It'll be interesting to see what else surfaces.
Ian


Post# 973067 , Reply# 82   12/11/2017 at 17:30 by optima (Cumbria England)        
Duo-Matic

optima's profile picture
Really enjoying this post. Colston Twin Tubs have always hit the spot for me. Gorgeous looking & performing Machines.

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Post# 973155 , Reply# 83   12/12/2017 at 03:07 by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield & London UK)        
The gift that keeps on giving .....

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What a lot of interesting information coming out of this thread ....

I derive a different understanding of how the auto rinse worked as I dont think it had a water valve at all. There appear to be two controls - one for heat and wash time. I think the other is just a simple timer albiet with a valve (which is shown in the diagram in reply 77) which controls the OUTLET water supply rather than the inlet.

Consider the close up of the control in reply 73 picture 4 and the words on picture five. I think the time simply cycled the spinner on an off with a manual control (i.e. turning the tap on and off) to control in water inlet - after all this was basically the mechanism used in the Hoovermatic and HP Supermatic although in these the cycling of the spinner was controlled by a pressure pot.

Going from the longest to shortest:
Full Cycle
Spin Rinse
Spin Dry
Suds

So I reckon the operation is as follows:
When clothes are first loaded in the spinner close the lid and turn switch to suds. As the spinner starts the water valve is activated to send the sunds to the re-circulation flume in the was tub
Having done this, move the switch to Full Cycle and turn the water on. The water valve sends the waste water to the emptying hose and the spinner cycles off and on for several intervals. I think Spin Rinse is the end of this cycle so perhaps one rinse and spin cycle (for handwashed items for example). At the end of this segment the water is manually switched off and the spin proceeds for several minutes - Spin Dry. It is not clear if the cycle would stop at the end of Spin Dry or proceed through the suds section - even if the water valve was sending the spun water back to the wash tub it would only be a dribble at this point. So, not quite as automatic as it was made out to be, but then it was the same on all the twin tubs of this style.

Thats my take on it anyway.

There are actualy quite a few Rolls machines knocking around one way or another but the Colston Coronet (the successor machine which would have been in production for may 13 or 14 years) remains elusive - I cannot recall seeing even one on ebay over the years I have been looking. I have NIB examples of both the Colston single tub washer and spinner in the collection as well as another washer which has been used. A third went to Ian some months back. I have seen an example of the last Ariston iteration of the twin tub machine which by my recollection was somewhat larger (certainly taller) machine - more of the scale of a Supertwin although there was no indication that the washing capacity was any larger.

The price comparisons are complete bollocks as in most cases the machines are much more advanced or fully featured and in several they are fully or semi automatic machines so not comporable at all.

Al



Post# 973167 , Reply# 84   12/12/2017 at 04:36 by keymatic (Surrey.U.K)        

keymatic's profile picture
Hi Al,

Sounds like a good thinking plan of how it could possibly work, some of these things were very gimmicky at the time, and 9 times out of 10 was just easier to spray rinse the load in the spinner.

There were many variations on the "Rolls" concept / design, including the Frigidaire Mastertwin.

Cheers
Keith


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Post# 973177 , Reply# 85   12/12/2017 at 05:40 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Keith

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I actually never realised that the Frigidaire Mastertwin was a Rolls copy. I do like the pale blue wash tub interior.

Post# 973179 , Reply# 86   12/12/2017 at 05:59 by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield & London UK)        
Pale Blue

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As I remember it the Colston Coronet had the same colour tub (my brother bought one for his wife in 1975 - it was something like £66 - I remember telling him he should have asked me first (naturally!!) as I would have pushed him towards an Indesit L5 which was around £75 and as much as they could have afforded) and the knobs look similar to the Coronet too although in a different position. As Keith says, there were a great many different versions of these machines although towards the end of the 1960s they seem to die out leaving just the Colston - this may just be an early sign of the decline in popularity of twin tub machines

Post# 973193 , Reply# 87   12/12/2017 at 08:50 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
It's quite amazing how the twin tub machines took Britain by storm. The variety and competition between the manufacturers is unbelievable - each criticising others' wash actions, giving away free gifts - or not, in the case of Duomatic Ltd!

The housewife definitely benefitted from these machines - it got her out of the cold wash-house, and away from the copper boiler, into the warmer more comfortable kitchen, where she could multitask.


Post# 973221 , Reply# 88   12/12/2017 at 11:52 by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
Keith your thread # 84

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Frigidaire twin tub does your model have a self rinsing feature and a separate hose to fill the spinner?

Its a lovely looking machine :)

Austin


Post# 973223 , Reply# 89   12/12/2017 at 11:57 by keymatic3203 (Cardiff UK)        
mastertwin

If I remember correctly, from Keith's thread, the master twin had the rolls type wash tub and the Frigidaire spin dryer.

I agree it was a time of great competition in a growing market for a product that would transform the lives of the housewife like no other. Some may look down on twin tubs, yes Automatics were a dream again, but when compared to lighting coal fire under the copper and mangles in the yard, the demand is easy to understand. I suppose the only similar example I can think of is the mobile phone, started as a luxury for a few, then what seems like in retrospect everyone having one within a year or so.

Mathew


Post# 973227 , Reply# 90   12/12/2017 at 12:39 by keymatic3203 (Cardiff UK)        
My take on the

autorinse cycle. Al your suggestion sound a good solution, but a bit complicated for such a basic machine, I humbly suggest, now if Parnall ever made a twin tub, I think you'd be onto something.

I'm going to suggest the rinse/spin cycle timer is along the lines of a basic clockwork tumble dryer timer, so the motor would be the motor and the heater would be the electric water valve. So replace the 120mins timer with a 12min agitator timer, both cheap off the shelf products, but combine the dryer switching with the washer clockwork timer, ok so maybe actual timings vary but you get the idea.

So transfer the wash into the spinner, hose over wash tub, turn timer to suds, spins for a minute or so and switches off.

Drain hose over the sink and cold tap would be on from when the machine was set up. Turn the timer to full cycle to give the maximum rinse, here I suspect you just get a longer spray rinse until the timer cycles through to spin dry when the water stops and the spinning continues until the timer return to the start or off position.

I would love to be proved wrong and there to be more to it, like a series of saturations and spins, but as Kieth has said, things were made to be gimmicky back then. Just look at how they turned a 4min timer into a variable fabric control, so adding lables like full cycle and suds etc made a simple spin timer
into so much more.

And yes, I agree again keith, just using a hose may well have been more effective, though with the inverted cone shape of the centrmatic spin dryer, with most holes around the base, it is a good spin drum for sprayrinsing.

Can someone find one so we can be sure lol

Mathew


Post# 973241 , Reply# 91   12/12/2017 at 13:40 by triumphdolomite (Staffs(UK))        
My Take

On this was something similar to Mathew but I thought that full cycle might have been a timed fill with no spin followed by spin/spray rinsing at the Rinse Spin position, but perhaps I'm hoping for a bit much for my extra 10 guineas!

A thought did come to me this morning, I wonder if the Colston Autoplus resurrected this rinsing system?
Ian

p.s. Al, did you notice the hand wringer option on the Colston Cadet, that we were talking about a while ago, in the second picture of reply 82?


Post# 973250 , Reply# 92   12/12/2017 at 14:35 by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield & London UK)        
Autorinse

vacbear58's profile picture
Mathew

If Parnall ever made a twin tub they would have combined a mechanical valve with the timer, why have a simple solution when a complicated one will do :)

Oh well I suppose we will have to wait until a machine or a set of instructions comes along to find out :) Of course we could always make our own autorinse version .....


Post# 973255 , Reply# 93   12/12/2017 at 15:18 by optima (Cumbria England)        
Autoplus

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I'm certain i can remember the Colston Autoplus having 3 control dials. The 1st for wash timing, 2nd for water heating control & the 3rd possibly a spin timer.

Post# 973260 , Reply# 94   12/12/2017 at 16:03 by optima (Cumbria England)        
Autoplus

optima's profile picture
It definitely did not have a Auto Rinse function. Just a mechanical shut off spin timer.

Post# 973415 , Reply# 95   12/13/2017 at 07:48 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
The Rolls 'Concorde' appears to have been the next model after the 'Rapide', 'Rapide De Luxe', and the 'Auto-Rinse'.

Did the 'Concorde De Luxe' have an autorinse feature?

Or was the autorinse feature a one-trick-pony, never to be seen again?


Post# 973446 , Reply# 96   12/13/2017 at 10:31 by keymatic3203 (Cardiff UK)        
rolls concorde

I would doubt the concorde had the auto rinse, for one if it did, it would have been trumpeted in the adverts and on the machine. Also if the rinse/spin dial of the autorinse was a timer, then the concorde only having one dial which has to be the wash timer, could not have the autorinse feature, the 3 buttons can only be for the spin, heater and spin and heater.

And of course if by the concorde in 64, was the push to put resources into the automatic machine, or perhaps the autorinse didn't sell that well. Also by the time your spending 69gns you're on the way to affording a larger capacity machine from a premium brand.

By the way, been a long time since we had a UK thread run to so many replies and sharing so much new information. Thanks all,

Mathew


Post# 973464 , Reply# 97   12/13/2017 at 13:01 by Alanlondon (London)        
Last few things...

When I took apart one of these twin tubs when I was about 10 I seem to remember (to my surprise) that the spinner tub wasn't water tight, you couldn't fill it up like you could with my Mum's Hoover twin tub to rinse (if my memory serves me right?). When you put the wet clothes in the spinner you needed to set it going and let the pump kick in before you added any water to the top for rinsing, otherwise the small reservoir would overflow on to the floor. I'm not sure how the autorinse works, but on that basis (if they were all the same) it would be the water switching off and on and not the spinner - perhaps?

To finish off the pictures I've also attached the Colston, Colston Ariston to then Ariston Colston brochures of these machines.

Thanks everyone, really a good read.

Alan





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Post# 973595 , Reply# 98   12/14/2017 at 08:06 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Reply #52... photo #1

rolls_rapide's profile picture
@ Ian ('triumphdolomite'):

The photo of the Newman motor appears to show the 'Duo-matic' name as a sticker, slightly askew...

Is there a name under this sticker?

I ask because donkeys years ago, I had a 'Boots' brand calculator, as in 'Boots' the Chemist. Under the Boots ratings plate (a stuck on label) was a Casio ratings plate - and I think the Casio one was actually stamped into the plastic casing.

Just curious...!


Post# 973635 , Reply# 99   12/14/2017 at 11:19 by keymatic3203 (Cardiff UK)        
More marketing talk

I see Alan in your colston ariston brochure, the automatics, LB range features the `Exclusive hydrostop action' to prevent creasing, would this be Rinse hold lol as featured on most automatics since the 60's. Mind can't be critical being a hoover fan, with Creaseguard lol.

Plus the LB616 and LB515 have the spin dry action that prevents creasing, is that the pulsed spin as we know of from the XD90 etc washer dryers. The basic LB413 I assume has a slow enough spin speed not to trouble fabrics with creasing, 400rpm I think.

These look good honest washers, it's just the gimmicky sales phrases like those mentioned earlier in the thread about the 60's machines that amused me.

Mathew


Post# 973659 , Reply# 100   12/14/2017 at 14:38 by triumphdolomite (Staffs(UK))        

Rolls
I saw the Duomatic name on the motor but hadn't thought of it being a sticker until you mentioned it. When I get a minute I'll tip it over again and have a look, I'm guessing it will probably be a blank space left specially to put the sticker into.
Regards
Ian.


Post# 973687 , Reply# 101   12/14/2017 at 18:53 by optima (Cumbria England)        
LB 515

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The Colston LB 515 comes across as having the final spin sequence close to the classic Ti Creda "Rhythm spin" 800 but with no mention of the actual top spin speed though.

Post# 973788 , Reply# 102   12/15/2017 at 12:09 by Paulc (Edinburgh, Scotland)        
I’m assuming

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The LB515 had a 500spin and the LB616 had a 600 spin seein as the later LB520 has a 500 spin, the 420 was a 400spin and the LB820 was an 800spin machine.

Thanks for posting that brochure Alan.


Post# 973949 , Reply# 103   12/16/2017 at 08:20 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Reply #97, photo #6

rolls_rapide's profile picture
The Ariston LB620 with its square filter access door, looks quite like a Zanussi.

I like the look of these machines, especially the square filter door ones.

With such low spin speeds (400/500rpm), its no wonder Colston/Aristons went on, and on, and on... But surely they couldn't have been that popular in Britain? One would have to have a spin dryer to dry laundry in reasonable time.

Alongside other factors such as plumbing-in, this might also explain why some UK housewives held onto their twintub machines for longer than the rest of Europe - because of better water extraction. I remember when my mum decided on the Hoover A3110 Electronic automatic, the 1100rpm spin was one of the factors that persuaded her to get that machine. She just would not entertain a poor spin efficiency.


Post# 973994 , Reply# 104   12/16/2017 at 11:30 by keymatic3203 (Cardiff UK)        
Rolls

I think your right about spin performance, at least for those who couldn't afford to buy and run a tumble dryer, and back in the 70's most couldn't, mum always said so long as she had a spin dryer she could cope without a washing machine, that's only cope mind not be without if they could afford one. So yes in small kitchens/houses with no central heating, during wet spells drying the wash was a greater issue than washing it. I don't know about anyone else around the country, but the launderettes in our area didn't exactly encourage drying only customers.

Digressing again, I remember when we first moved into our house, 1999,no heating, not yet plumbed in the hoover 1100, so had a few months with the hoovermatic, it was when launderettes started to get quieter, so they then encourage drying customers, I went in after my hour with the twin tub, accosted by the woman running the place, do those need spinning?, I practically did a Catherine Tate's Derek, `how very dare you' lol they most certainly do not,lol.

So yes at this stage those bottom of the line machines may have proved a false economy in the UK.

Mathew


Post# 974090 , Reply# 105   12/16/2017 at 18:12 by gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Au)        
Alanlondon

Interesting about the spinners not being water tight.

We had Lightburn twin tubs here in Australia, they had the same thing. The wash tub was fibreglass, the spin outer tub was galvanized sheetmetal and didn't seal to the spinner shaft. The floor of the spin can had a hole in the centre with a collar about 4 inches high, the spin shaft came up through the collar but there was a fair clearance, enough that the spinner could vibrate a bit without the shaft hitting the collar. It was important to keep the pump running during spin so that the water level didn't rise up over the collar, as water would then run inside the collar and over the motor. The motor had a shield to stop water getting inside but it would still have been messy.

There was only a single pump, driven by the wash motor, so you had to have the wash paddle swinging back and forth during spin, even if there were no clothes in the wash tub. It sounds barbaric today but they were a highly regarded machine, they had a strong wash action with a big paddle that swung left - right in the wash tub, could get anything clean. And the spinner was amazing, a huge induction motor that went from 0 to 2800 rpm in about a second, full or empty. You could hear the water blast against the sides of the outer spin drum.

The spinner brake was just a leather belt that tightened around a wheel on the spin shaft when you opened the lid. It still took several seconds to wind down from spin. When I was in primary school a girl I knew put her arm inside the spinner as it was coasting down, intending to slow it sooner. It broke her arm.

They were very reliable, though if you didn't thoroughly rinse out the spinner after use, the sheetmetal would rust through. I repaired one with fibreglass a few years ago.


Post# 974187 , Reply# 106   12/17/2017 at 07:09 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Gizmo

rolls_rapide's profile picture
Thank you for the concise explanation.

I had been wondering what 'Alanlondon' meant about the spinner compartment not being sealed. I had wrongly presumed that there was a problem with the seal between the 'spin tub outer' and the top deck.

It never occurred to me for one moment that there would be a gaping hole with a paltry collar - and proper operation of the system being reliant upon the pump working properly. You certainly couldn't do a Hoover type 'spinarinse' in it.


Post# 974264 , Reply# 107   12/17/2017 at 14:53 by anthony (uk)        
there was

anthony's profile picture
an English electric version of that frigidaire twintub it was mechanicaly identical .Also the little round fridgidaire spin dryer was not water tight .it had a rubber collar about 2 inches high consequently if you poured too much water into it it would come pouring out the bottom.can anyone tell me what the lever on the front of the ADA tt was for ? the reason i ask is i once saw a TT that had a similar lever all it did was move the one and only motor from the washer to the spinner

Post# 974283 , Reply# 108   12/17/2017 at 16:48 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
The Spectator Magazine

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14th Dec 1962...

Midway through the page, a small article about the washing machine wars.

(Possibly best read by dragging the original magnification about, because the supplied scan has irritating scanning errors).


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Rolls_rapide's LINK


Post# 974297 , Reply# 109   12/17/2017 at 17:40 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
The Spectator Magazine

rolls_rapide's profile picture
12th June 1964...

Mentions Bloom's Bulgarian holidays - which appeared not to be quite as advertised - nothing new there then!


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Rolls_rapide's LINK


Post# 974563 , Reply# 110   12/19/2017 at 03:41 by hoovermatic (UK)        
Lever on the front of the ADA

It's connected to the pump. IIRC to the left was 'wash & spin' and the right was 'empty tub'

Post# 974564 , Reply# 111   12/19/2017 at 04:57 by keymatic (Surrey.U.K)        

keymatic's profile picture
Hi Anthony,

As Paul said the lever on the front of the Ada-Matic also like the AEG Lavalux, this was a valve, this allowed water to flow into a two-way port diverter from either the wash tub or spinner, then one exit to the pump. It was an economical solution without having to have separate pumps.


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Post# 974565 , Reply# 112   12/19/2017 at 05:23 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
The later Agilux had a smaller lever on the control panel. I guess that had the same function.



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Post# 974848 , Reply# 113   12/21/2017 at 08:44 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Rolls twin tub

rolls_rapide's profile picture
This photo of Milestones Museum is courtesy of TripAdvisor

Notice that the 'Rolls' mark is rather ornate on this machine! When did that happen? I was only ever aware of the block lettering.


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Post# 974961 , Reply# 114   12/22/2017 at 02:26 by keymatic (Surrey.U.K)        

keymatic's profile picture
Austin,
With reference to your question in Thread 88# - the Frigidaire doesn't have an auto-rinse feature and rinsing is done by filler hose into the spinner.

Thread 113#
That "Rolls" logo is very swirly - I think it would have been an earlier design as the later logo was as you say more block style and always in the left-hand corner.

I had some information come through the other day, EMELEC ? just a Rolls re-branded under the East Midlands Electricity Board.

Cheers
Keith


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Post# 974979 , Reply# 115   12/22/2017 at 08:20 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
EMELEC

rolls_rapide's profile picture
Thanks for that.

It looks like the Rolls 'Concorde' in Reply #19, but with squarer lids hinged at the rear, rather than diagonally.



Post# 975316 , Reply# 116   12/24/2017 at 13:17 by anthony (uk)        
thanks

anthony's profile picture
Keymatic and hoovermatic thats certainly satisfied my curiosity about the ADAs lever .They are all interesting machines regardless of how good or bad they were

Post# 976602 , Reply# 117   1/2/2018 at 15:37 by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield & London UK)        
More Duomatic

vacbear58's profile picture
Over the holidays I got a bundle of magazines & brochures which included copies of "Practical Householder" and "Do It Yourself" both from August 1964. Both included a variation of the Automaster advert shown above. The first picture is the whole ad, the second one is an enlargement of teh text to hopefully make it easier to read.

Interestingly both of these magazines would have been directed at men rather than women.

It may be that this machine was a means to entice folks up to the more expensive (but lower manufacturing cost twin tub) or even the more expensive automatic model. This would almost have been a last gasp for Duomatic as they went bust shortly afterwards.

The programming is very limited and it is curious to see Synthetics (aka Permament Press or as we know it Minimum Iron) be in theory a shorter programme than wollens and I suspect the spin drying to be both slow speed and short duration. I think also that it must be a top loading, H axis machine - there have been some front loaders produced with more or less that footprint.


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Post# 976606 , Reply# 118   1/2/2018 at 16:30 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
Thanks for the clearer adverts Al.

The adverts were probably in blokes' magazines because of:
(a) Hire Purchase Terms & Conditions - the husband only being eligible to sign a contract;
(b) the 'latest technology' has historically appealed to blokes, hence advertising to them directly;
and dare I say (c) as a nice present to surprise the overworked wife with!

I've been wondering if this 'Automaster' actually ever existed? Perhaps it was a prime example of the 'switch-selling techniques' where folk are enticed in at a lower price, and then pressured to take the dearer model? Along the lines of: "Oh dear! We've had such a high demand for that model, that we're sold out. However, we have this slightly dearer model..."


Post# 980880 , Reply# 119   2/1/2018 at 17:18 by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield & London UK)        
Morphy Richards

vacbear58's profile picture
And just when we all thought this thread had come to close, this turns up.

This is a page from what is described as a trade catalogue which has just been listed on ebay. The seller says 1964 but it is more likely 1965 or 1966 as the Keymatic is listed as the 3226 although the picture shows the earlier 3224. Anyhow, the item of interest is yet another variation of the Rolls machine - now manufactured by Tallent since the demise of Rolls. I had never known of Morphy Richards ever marketing a washing machine although they had been manufacturing spin driers for several years at this point

Al


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Post# 980887 , Reply# 120   2/1/2018 at 18:05 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Laundryettes Not Allowing Or Even Wanting Drying Only

launderess's profile picture
Was fairly common back in the day all over, and maybe still goes on far as one knows.

Laundromats depending upon several factors either made their money on washers, or the dryers. Sometimes things balanced out, but in many cases someone who washed things elsewhere (at home), then lugging their wet wash to use laundryette dryers was discouraged. Many places even put up signs saying "no drying only".

Other reason was how the place was planned out; that is ratio of washers to dryers. Many laundromats saw those who washed and dried as true customers (see above), and didn't think they should have to wait for a dryer while someone else who didn't do their washing at the place was hogging one.


Post# 980935 , Reply# 121   2/2/2018 at 03:39 by keymatic (Surrey.U.K)        

keymatic's profile picture
Hi Al,

I saw that page of washers and the Morphy Richards thing also caught my eye, I have seen in Home magazines of the time that Morphy Richards were listed as selling a twin tub similar to the Rolls machine, there were quiet a few companies that adopted the "Rolls" principal:
Frigidaire
Goblin
Pye
Burco
Electricity boards own brands
Cheers
Keith





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