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Thread Number: 73692
/ Tag: Other Home Products or Autos
Dutch-o-rama, advertising in the Netherlands |
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Post# 973199 12/12/2017 at 09:10 (2,318 days old) by foraloysius  (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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I have a lot of Dutch newspaper ads from the fifties, sixties and seventies. I'm going to share some of them here now and then.
I'll start off with an ad of a twintub, it's a DRU (Diepenbrock and Reigers in Ulft), one of the earliest companies in the Netherlands, founded in 1754. This was my mother's first washing machine that my parents bought in 1955 when they married. Twintubs weren't very popular in the Netherlands although they were widely available. In the early years many people found them too expensive, in later years they got tough competion from fully automatic washing machines that became very popular in the sixties here. This twintub has an agitator and the option to rinse in the spinner with a rinse column, that sprayed rinsing water all over the laundry. As said, my parents bought this washing machine in 1955, the ad is from 1963, so it was on the market for a rather long period. My parents replaced it in 1965 with a Candy frontloader.
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Post# 973201 , Reply# 1 12/12/2017 at 09:38 (2,318 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Google translating lol  | ||
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Post# 973207 , Reply# 2 12/12/2017 at 10:16 (2,318 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 973217 , Reply# 3 12/12/2017 at 11:17 (2,318 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Here's an ad from 1953. There were lots of different wringer washers on the market. In the Duomatic thread we established that at some point there were over 100 washing machine manufacturers in the Netherlands. That is quite a lot if you consider that around that time there were just a bit more than 10 million people living in this country. That's one factory on 100,000 people! But apparently that wasn't enough, we imported a lot of brands too. The Wasco and the Hoover were on the cheaper side, the Prefect the cheapest in this ad with an electric wringer. The somewhat more expensive Servis, probably with a bigger capacity. And then there was the Thor. 1075.- guilders was quite a lot of money. And if you wanted the dishwasher option you had to pay 310 guilders more. That could buy you an automatic washing machine already back then.
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Post# 973228 , Reply# 4 12/12/2017 at 12:44 (2,318 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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The first automatic washing machine was a Bendix that was imported in 1947 and installed in Rotterdam. I found an ad from 1950. Ofcourse these were expensive, but in the ad it says it is cheaper than a maid or a laundry service. The distributor for the province Limburg was a dry cleaning shop. They organised a demonstration week.
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Post# 973230 , Reply# 5 12/12/2017 at 12:54 (2,318 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Westinghouse appeared here on the market too. Here's an ad from 1957. It uses the patented Westinghouse "agi-tumble" wash method.
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Post# 973231 , Reply# 6 12/12/2017 at 12:58 (2,318 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Skip was one of the first low sudsing detergents on the market here. They used a Westinghouse frontloader in this ad from the early 60's. The price is steep with 1385 guilders, although the ad says the price shouldn't be a problem.
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Post# 973232 , Reply# 7 12/12/2017 at 13:02 (2,318 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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The Westinghouse Spacemate appeared here too. It was available with a built in heater, but it was over 300 guilders extra. That amount of money could buy you a simple wringer washer!
Other American brands were available on the Dutch market too. General Electric toploaders were rather popular, I knew several people who grew up with one.
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Post# 973234 , Reply# 8 12/12/2017 at 13:08 (2,318 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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The British Acme was active on the Dutch market too. Their appliances were rather expensive compared to other brands. With a heater and an extra lid you had to put down 1000 guilders. It must have been one of the most expensive twintubs on the market. This ad is from 1961.
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Post# 973236 , Reply# 9 12/12/2017 at 13:15 (2,318 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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One of the reasons the twintubs didn't attract many customers was the appearance of the AEG Turnamat on the Dutch market. It was an H-axis twintub, with a drum like a frontloader, but with the opening on top. It washed and rinsed automatically (with lots of water!). The only thing you had to do was spin the laundry afterwards. It was just a bit more than the Acme twintub, but you had less hassle with handling the laundry, which was very positively recieved by the Dutch customers. In no time the AEG Turnamat became very popular and soon the priced dropped because of that. This ad is from 1961, just like the Acme ad.
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Post# 973237 , Reply# 10 12/12/2017 at 13:22 (2,318 days old) by joeekaitis (Rialto, California, USA) |
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As the owner of a Subaru Impreza with a Lineartronic CVT . . | ||
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Post# 973238 , Reply# 11 12/12/2017 at 13:24 (2,318 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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And then came Candy! Candy plaid an important part on the Dutch market when they introduced an affordable frontloader. Here are three ads. The first is from 1962, the Candy still costs 995 guilders. Two years later the price had dropped to 698 guilders. And then in 1966, it was 598 guilders, in four years the price had dropped with 40%. The competition on the Dutch market had started and that helped with the sales figures. Soon the automatic washing machine was widely accepted, a bit earlier than in a lot of other European countries. There were many players on the Dutch market, amazing that a small country had so many competitors on it's white goods market.
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Post# 973256 , Reply# 12 12/12/2017 at 15:31 (2,318 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City) |
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Louis... | ||
| Post# 973257 , Reply# 13 12/12/2017 at 15:54 (2,318 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan) | ||
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Yes, most interesting Louis! Like Holiday "candy" too. I learned of American appliances and vehicles in Holland at first from the Dutch 1980 film Spetter's. Couldn't believe I saw a 1969 Impala in it. HBO, Cinemax, and Showtime in those days showed many foreign films. | ||
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Post# 973312 , Reply# 14 12/12/2017 at 20:49 (2,318 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Funny you never see the Dutch here getting their knickers in a knot over this stereotype , at least not yet LOL
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| Post# 973317 , Reply# 15 12/12/2017 at 20:56 (2,318 days old) by IowaBear (Cedar Rapids, IA) | ||
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| Post# 973356 , Reply# 16 12/13/2017 at 00:50 (2,317 days old) by mieleforever (SOUTH AFRICA) | ||
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Hi Louis, Ons kry steeds "Skip" hier in Suid Adrika. I suppose you could interpret that. Currently we have Skip, Omo in our house. Skip is still the more expensive brand around here but is really good. I love your advertisements. Keep them comming. Groete, | ||
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Post# 973382 , Reply# 17 12/13/2017 at 03:05 (2,317 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Post# 973393 , Reply# 18 12/13/2017 at 04:21 (2,317 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Thank you guys, it's a pleasure to share them with you. And thank you Louis for the inspiration for the title of the thread.
Pete, When Dutch can earn money with stereotypes, we are not complaining. lol Skip disappeared here from the market a long time ago, just like Radion that was a detergent from that time too. My grandmother started using Radion in her first automatic, a Zanussi, but it was suds galore! Spetters is not my favourite Paul Verhoeven film. Turks Fruit also gives a good impression of the Verhoeven's view on life and Dutch society. Here's an ad for you Joe. It looks like there are no DAF commercials on Youtube, couldn't find them. This DAF ad is from 1961. "Shifting is old fashioned: Drive variomatically your time ahead". And: "Every year five million Americans pay 700 guilders extra for an automatic transmission in their car. But you can save on that because the DAF is fully automatic without a cent extra". The price for the basic model (including heating!!) is 4130 guilders, so about the same price as four automatic washing machines...
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Post# 973399 , Reply# 19 12/13/2017 at 05:17 (2,317 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Siwa was one of the Dutch manufacturers. They made automatic frontloaders later, well into the seventies IIRC. Not sure if they made them all themselves, perhaps the later models were relabeled. This one however is an authentic Siwa, made in the NL. The Siwa Grandluxe has a rinse system, I don't see anything in the ad though how that would work. 598 guilders wasn't bad. But a heater was 50 guilders extra and an extra lid 35. This is an agitator machine. A pulsator machine was 100 guilders less. Under the picture of the agitator it says: With the safe forward and backward laundry mover. According to this ad (from 1960) the price was low because it was totally Dutch made, so no high import taxes.
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Post# 973400 , Reply# 20 12/13/2017 at 05:22 (2,317 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Here's a 1963 Siwa ad with a more modern looking twintub. "Everything you have to know about twintubs". It mentions the safe agitator again and a handy control panel. It has a rinse-spin system and the capacity of the washtub and the spindryer are both 3 kg. The push buttons remind me a bit of the Candy Bimatic.
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| Post# 973425 , Reply# 21 12/13/2017 at 08:52 (2,317 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Post# 973439 , Reply# 22 12/13/2017 at 10:15 (2,317 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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I came across a lot of ads for the AEG Agilux. When I look at all the ads, I get the impression Agitators were preferred over Pulsators. This ad is from 1961.
"Experienced housewives say: A stainless steel tub is the most important requirement. Washing is done at the left, rinsing and spinning at the right". The price with heater and autorinse is 995 guilders. Without autorinse 895. It was an expensive piece of washing equipment. The machine you see on the left is the Agilux S with the autorinse feature. On the right the Agilux without that feature.
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Post# 973442 , Reply# 23 12/13/2017 at 10:20 (2,317 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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This ad is also from 1961. It shows the automatic Turnamat next to the semi-automatic Agilux.
Turnamat: 1398.- Agilux: 895.- Agilux S: 995.-
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Post# 973445 , Reply# 24 12/13/2017 at 10:26 (2,317 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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This company is bringing the prices down in 1962. You can have a Turnamat for just a bit more than the price of an Agilux a year before. Automatic washing gets affordable for the middle class. The Lavamat (a fully automatic frontloader) is way more expensive than the Turnamat.
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Post# 973453 , Reply# 25 12/13/2017 at 10:52 (2,317 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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Post# 973487 , Reply# 26 12/13/2017 at 14:58 (2,317 days old) by joeekaitis (Rialto, California, USA) |
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Oh, and I've always been a Norelco man . . .
Got a few Philishave ads?
Seems every Christmas is rumored to be the last Christmas for the Norelco brand in the USA ever since Philishave became Philips in the rest of the world. For now it's PHILIPS NORELCO in all-caps with NORELCO set in larger type on the shavers. Gotta hang onto it, apparently. Remember how well that whole metric system conversion thing went back in the 1970s and '80s.
And, hello, what's this at norelco.ca? CLICK HERE TO GO TO joeekaitis's LINK This post was last edited 12/13/2017 at 15:32 | ||
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Post# 973488 , Reply# 27 12/13/2017 at 15:07 (2,317 days old) by joeekaitis (Rialto, California, USA) |
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This post has been removed by the member who posted it. | ||
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Post# 973492 , Reply# 28 12/13/2017 at 16:23 (2,317 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Norelco ca doesn't appear to have anything to do with Philips. It's a crane building company in Canada. The Norelco name was never used in Canada by Philips,, everything was Philips, ,the razors were Philishave, not Norelco's as in the US.. Perhaps it had something to do with the Norelco name already being used by someone else,, for example that crane company. Interestintly, up until maybe the 80s, many Hamilton Beach appliances were badged as Philips in Canada.
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Post# 973587 , Reply# 29 12/14/2017 at 06:41 (2,316 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Here's the background of the Norelco name. Philips never intended to use the Norelco name in Canada I think.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norelco... | ||
| Post# 973613 , Reply# 30 12/14/2017 at 09:30 (2,316 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.) | ||
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I'm loving those old adverts too! Regarding the twintubs being less popular in the Netherlands... when that happened the manufacturers probably said: "I know - Lets dump them on the Brits!" And we got deluged by 'em! Lol Good stuff. | ||
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Post# 973617 , Reply# 31 12/14/2017 at 09:48 (2,316 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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"Lets dump them on the Brits!" | ||
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Post# 973622 , Reply# 32 12/14/2017 at 10:08 (2,316 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Talk about Stokvis. Stokvis was a trade company founded in 1849. Their trade was a wide variety of products. For their white goods they bought their products from Van der Heem & Bloemsma, a company that made radio's, tv's and appliances. AFAIK Stokvis never made such products themselves. In the UK these products were sold under the Stokvis name. In the NL they were sold as Erres, after the initials of the founder R.S. Stokvis. In 1966 Philips bought up the electrical Van der Heem & Bloemsma, from that year of Erres were relabeled Philips products. Van der Heem & Bloemsma focused on beauty products from then on, which were sold under the Indola label.
This is an ad from 1961. It shows a wringer washer, a spin dryer and a twintub and hand wringers. Erres never made an electric wringer AFAIK. In my early youth most people who had a single tub or wringer washer also had a spin dryer. The twintub is not a TOL model, that one had four dials on the front.
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Post# 973645 , Reply# 34 12/14/2017 at 12:23 (2,316 days old) by Joeekaitis (Rialto, California, USA) |
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Wonderful ads . . . | ||
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Post# 973668 , Reply# 35 12/14/2017 at 15:59 (2,316 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Stokvis | ||
| Post# 973721 , Reply# 36 12/15/2017 at 03:44 (2,315 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) | ||
Louis, you say GE Toploaders were popular in the Netherlands.
Did you actually have fully automatic toploaders on the market ? I always assumed that we only had a couple of wringer washers with agitators and maybe the odd wash-rinse only automatic, but I thought there was never a fully automatic (wash-rinse-spin) agitator toploader in Germany. So I`m quite surprised to learn our neighbors in the Netherlands had these. The cheaper pulsator type was the most widespread system here before tumble washers took over. Also interesting to see you had the Bendix and Westinghouse washers apparently unaltered. I seem to remember from old ads on the German washer forum we had those too, but I think the ads said they were modified to suit German houswifes` expectations. Not sure if they offered boilwashes or a dual wash action or both to suit those expectations. My memory is blurry and unfortunately the washer forum with the daily picture doesn`t exist anymore. Obviously they weren`t a huge success and vanished soon after introduction from the market. | ||
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Post# 973742 , Reply# 37 12/15/2017 at 07:06 (2,315 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Yes, Stefan, we had all kind of American washing machines on the market. I said rather popular, because they were still very pricy after all. But not so that only the very wealthy could afford them. Here's a thread about a washer that our neighbours had.
www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/T... He was a busdriver and she was a housewife. They didn't have a handmixer, a fridge or a car, but they invested in an automatic washer before anything else, probably because they had 7 children. I'm not sure if the Bendix or Westinghouse weren't unaltered. After all, the Westinghouse in Reply #7 was offered with an optional heater. Here's another Bendix, advertised in 1953. "You only have to give three orders by adjusting the three dials, quantity and time depending on the type of laundry".
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Post# 973746 , Reply# 38 12/15/2017 at 07:13 (2,315 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 973770 , Reply# 39 12/15/2017 at 10:29 (2,315 days old) by joeekaitis (Rialto, California, USA) |
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Het zou geen kerst zijn zonder Philishave!*
*It Wouldn't Be Christmas Without Philishave!
(according to Google Translate, but we all know how terribly wrong that can be) | ||
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Post# 973776 , Reply# 40 12/15/2017 at 11:02 (2,315 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 973812 , Reply# 41 12/15/2017 at 14:29 (2,315 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Talk about Philips. They appeared to have made a vacuum coffee maker.
"The new Philips coffee filter". "Water in the caraf, coffee in the glass bowl. After the brewing your coffee is kept at the right drinking temperature. Your eighth cup is just as good and fresh as the first. Coffee experts are enthousiastic about the new Philips coffee filter". The coffee is made at 95 degrees Celcius, so 205 Fahrenheit. The coffee is not boiled so the full aroma is retained. This ad is from 1965. I had never seen this ad before, nor have I ever come across this coffee maker.
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Post# 973818 , Reply# 42 12/15/2017 at 14:51 (2,315 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Here's another DAF ad, this one is from 1966. This was the year of the introduction of the Daf 44. It had an aircooled 2 cylinder boxermotor (850cc).
"Do you like it to have to shift every moment? Ofcourse not! That's why DAF has the Variomatic". The Daffodil (32) has a smaller motor, 746cc. A year later the Daf 33 was introduced, almost similar to the Daffodil. Both motors had 30 HP. In 1966 all electric systems were still 6 Volts, later DAF changed to 12 Volts.
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Post# 973821 , Reply# 43 12/15/2017 at 15:11 (2,315 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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De Gruyter was a bit of an upscale grocery store. They had a lot of housebrand products, which were considered high quality. One of their most sold products was coffee, they had a variety of beans in containers and grinders under them.
In the Netherlands in the sixties the country was still divided in "zuilen" or pillars you could say, every church had it's own schools, sport clubs etc. People also often shopped at shops of their own faith. De Gruyter was catholic by origin so originally mainly catholics shopped there. In the sixties this started to change. De Gruyter missed the switch to the modern supermarket, they stayed an old fashioned grocery store for too long. They had a stamp system and one of the items you could save for was a Braun standmixer. This is the KM31 that was later redesigned into the KM32. 168 guilders or less with the equivalent in stamps was not a bad price for the complete machine with all the shown attachments.
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Post# 973871 , Reply# 44 12/15/2017 at 19:20 (2,315 days old) by joeekaitis (Rialto, California, USA) |
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Kodak zegt: "Open eerst mij!"*
*Kodak says: "Open Me First!"
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Post# 973908 , Reply# 45 12/15/2017 at 23:58 (2,315 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City) |
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Post# 973920 , Reply# 46 12/16/2017 at 02:11 (2,314 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Thank you Louis, my favorites are washers too!
And thank you Joe. I had never seen that Kodak ad, it must be from the 70's or so. We never had anything Kodak, my father preferred Agfa camera's and our film projector was an Eumig. IIRC my father found Agfa gave more natural colors than Kodak. And good riddens for Fuji when that came on the market here. lol | ||
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Post# 973941 , Reply# 47 12/16/2017 at 07:13 (2,314 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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I didn't post anything about dishwashers yet, so here we go.
Dishwashers remained rather unpopular in the Netherlands for a long time. Some neighbours had them, my mother refused to have one though. The most sold dishwasher in the Netherlands was Bosch for many years. But other brands were available like this ad from 1966 shows. Most dishwashers were freestanding, so with sidepanels and a top, but no casters. I don't know a great deal about them, but IIRC the KitchenAid was made in France. This is a a freestanding frontloader. It's a very expensive machine. According to the text it has a filter and 25 different models were available, only one mentioned further. The machine keeps itself clean. Cycle: R-R-W-W-R-R-D. The Westinghouse was available as freestanding model and in two built in versions. Cycle: R-W-R-W-R-R-D. The advertised General Electric is also a freestanding frontloader, but there is also a built-in version. A water softener is 200 guilders extra. This machine has a chopper. Cycle: R-R-W-R-R-D. The AEG is a portable toploader. Cycle: R-R-W-R-R. A dry cycle is not mentioned in the ad. A friend of mine grew up with this dishwasher. He always liked that it was a toploader. His mother wasn't very tall, so she wasn't too fond of it.
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Post# 973943 , Reply# 48 12/16/2017 at 07:46 (2,314 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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It looks like the Bosch dishwashers came onto the market in 1969. At least I couldn't find any ads from before that year. Not sure though, Bosch (or better the importcompany Willem van Rijn) was rather frugal with advertising. They let their dealers do the promotion rather than themselves. Here's a small ad from 1969 in which the three models are mentioned. The BOL is the Tophit with 2 cycles, the MOL is the SA12 with three cycles and the TOL the Topaas with 4 cycles. 150 guilders off on all models.
The ad is a bit bijou as Hyacinth would say. ;-)
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Post# 973945 , Reply# 49 12/16/2017 at 08:10 (2,314 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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More Philishave, 1966
"Now fantastic deep shaving with the new Philishave appliances (and just as soft as in the old days)".
The circles in the shaveheads were redesigned which gives a smoother result without damage to the skin. New is the Europlug (a small plug with only two pins. Before Philishaves had a bigger Schuko plug IIRC). The TOL model has an extendable trimmer.
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Post# 974021 , Reply# 50 12/16/2017 at 13:19 (2,314 days old) by joeekaitis (Rialto, California, USA) |
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Geef het geschenk van leren!*
*Give the Gift of Learning!
Oh, and, here in the States we had Norelco Electronic Educational Kits.
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Post# 974047 , Reply# 51 12/16/2017 at 15:20 (2,314 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 974068 , Reply# 52 12/16/2017 at 16:20 (2,314 days old) by joeekaitis (Rialto, California, USA) |
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Meer Philishave! Meer!*
*More Philishave! More!
(in Hollish**)
**While we were vacationing in Mexico years ago, I was listening to the English-language North American service of Radio Netherlands on a shortwave radio. My younger sister asked "Where's that coming from?"
"Holland."
"Oh. Why aren't they speaking Hollish?" | ||
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Post# 974083 , Reply# 53 12/16/2017 at 17:38 (2,314 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA) |
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I must have a Daf! After the Yugo and Citroen 2CV this is a luxury car. | ||
| Post# 974227 , Reply# 57 12/17/2017 at 10:56 (2,313 days old) by iej (.... ) | ||
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Fairy Snow - major change of positioning! That's interesting they Fairy washing powder was marketed as a heavy duty detergent back in those days. It's effectively a baby care product now. The dialogue is awful - is that meant to be a US accent?! Sounds about as American as fish and chips! | ||
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Post# 974265 , Reply# 59 12/17/2017 at 15:01 (2,313 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Philishave,
Should we start a separate thread? Daf/Volvo, Volvo bought Daf around 1975 IIRC. The Daf 66 became the Volvo 66 and the design for a new Daf, the 77 was the basis for the later Volvo 343. These cars were built by VDL Nedcar. When the production of the 340 series was discontinued, Nedcar changed to other cars among them the first generation Smart forfour and several Mitsubishi models. Nowadays Nedcar makes the BMW X1, the Mini and the Mini Countryman. Leeuwarden: Most people in Leeuwarden don't speak Frisian, originally the most language in Leeuwarden was City-Frisian, a dialect between Dutch and Frisian. I'm going to move to Leeuwarden somewhere in the new year btw. | ||
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Post# 974373 , Reply# 60 12/18/2017 at 01:35 (2,312 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City) |
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Not exactly a DAF... | ||
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Post# 974388 , Reply# 62 12/18/2017 at 06:25 (2,312 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Ah yes, Spyker! That's something different than DAF. Spyker built the world's first six cylinder AFAIK in 1903. They also built the first four wheel drive and were the first to use brakes on all four wheels. They had quite a reputation, in England they were called the Rolls Royce from the continent. Unfortunately the company went bankrupt a few times, the last time in the 1920's.
AFAIK, Philips only made twintubs with agitators, but I have to admit I have been surprised before by all the products they have made. The machine you are describing sounds more like a Rolls twintub or so. | ||
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Post# 974389 , Reply# 63 12/18/2017 at 06:31 (2,312 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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More Philips, this time vacuum cleaners. The "draaitop" (turn top) was very popular in the NL with the hose that could turn 360 degrees. "Ja, zo is er maar één!" = Yes, there is only one like it according to this ad from 1966.
The hand held vac was also available with a an electric brush.
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Post# 974393 , Reply# 64 12/18/2017 at 06:48 (2,312 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Around that time my mother needed a new vacuum. A cousin of her, who sold vacuums etc. came over with the Philips and a Holland Electro Toppy. She tested them both and chose the HE.
This ad is from 1960. "A huge progress on the terrain of vacuums." I'm sure it looks familiar to vacuum collectors. It had a 500 Watts motor, IIRC the Philips had less, around 400. It came with a cloth bag and with paper bags. It also came with a "Drakaflex" cord, with a sort of rubbery cover.
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Post# 974402 , Reply# 65 12/18/2017 at 07:36 (2,312 days old) by joeekaitis (Rialto, California, USA) |
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"Philishave, Should we start a separate thread?" | ||
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Post# 974404 , Reply# 66 12/18/2017 at 07:44 (2,312 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Holland Electro
The HE machine is very closely based on the US Lewyt design and must have continued for many years after Lewyt was nothing but a memory, I have an HE machine in my collection and I would have said it is much newer than the 1960s - I would have said late 1980s if not later.
I remember the Philips 360 design being launched here in the 1970s and finally managed to acquire one a couple of months ago. And the a very pleasant surprise last week when I went to collect a cleaner for a friend and the ebay seller gave me some paper bags for this cleaner for free, these would be quite rare here :) I also have a much later version of the hand/stick cleaner too :) | ||
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Post# 974413 , Reply# 67 12/18/2017 at 09:08 (2,312 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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| Post# 974425 , Reply# 68 12/18/2017 at 09:56 (2,312 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.) | ||
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Polaroid As advertised by Richard Briers and Felicity Kendal for Christmas 1979. Cashback offer ends 31st Jan 1980. CLICK HERE TO GO TO Rolls_rapide's LINK | ||
| Post# 974426 , Reply# 69 12/18/2017 at 10:04 (2,312 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) | ||
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Iej, my grandmother had a jet-washer too. Almost identical to reply no. 29 in this old thread. Wasn`t a Philips but you never know. I could imagine joint ventures of washing machine manufacturers existed even back in the 1950s.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO mrboilwash's LINK | ||
| Post# 974428 , Reply# 70 12/18/2017 at 10:10 (2,312 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California) | ||
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we had a phillips canister in Nijmegen. They had some dogs that shed a lot (Chows) so there was always vacuuming. | ||
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Post# 974432 , Reply# 71 12/18/2017 at 10:41 (2,312 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Philips 1969
Philips has sold many different models through the years. Here are three special models advertised.
"A knowledgeable buying couple only needs half a word" "A washing machine with the name Philips on it, that's always a good choice". At the left is the Philips CC1000, washing and spinning in one drum with no less than (Philips technique) 1000rpm. In the middle the Philips Compact, for the best used 40 x 60 cm space (a Philips surprise) for your bathroom or kitchen. BTW, both toploaders are H-axis machines. And at the left the Philips Incli-matic, with a slanted drum (Philips invention) for better washing and better loading.
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Post# 974567 , Reply# 72 12/19/2017 at 05:31 (2,311 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Philips CC1000
As featureed in the last advert, the Philips CC1000 was a very handsome machine indeed - actually manufactured in the UK in Halifax. The production dates are noted on the front as 1969 until 1972. As Louis notes above it is an H Axis machine with the drum mounted from side to side rather than front to back which is the more usual arrangement.
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Post# 974568 , Reply# 73 12/19/2017 at 05:57 (2,311 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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The name CC1000 was somewhat confusing for me because the first Slimstar, the HN3156 was marketed as a CC1000 too. I remember the latter better from ads in a woman magazine my mother subsribed to. Here's a clip from an ad and the full ad. This ad is from around 1975.
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Post# 974570 , Reply# 74 12/19/2017 at 06:03 (2,311 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Ignis 1963
Ignis had already a toploader on the market with the drum mounted from side to side (Diomede posted several threads here about these toploaders).
"Ignis brings joy to the family" Notice the endorsement of Dixan at the bottom of the thread. My mother used that, I still remember the smell.
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Post# 974615 , Reply# 75 12/19/2017 at 12:50 (2,311 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Ignis
Looks like the Ignis was sold here as a Stokvis - it was an expensive machine here, the second most expensive of this test
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Post# 974616 , Reply# 76 12/19/2017 at 12:56 (2,311 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Radio Modern
The Erres AWD526 looks like a Philips - even the model number sounds like Philips.
On the other hand the Philips AWB001 does not look like any Philips I have ever seen, or is it a dryer? The Slimstar is a great machine (I would love one!) and they are built like tanks - again made in Halifax - I remember seeing these on sale when my mother bought her first machine in 1975, Mum bought a Zanussi in the end. We had teh DL 22 here as well, I think it spun at around 380 I am really enjoying this thread Louis :) | ||
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Post# 974622 , Reply# 77 12/19/2017 at 13:57 (2,311 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Radio Modern
Yes, the Erres is a Philips. In the 1960's Philips slowly took over Erres-Stokvis and Ruton. So the Erres and Ruton models disappeared slowly from the market and were replaced by Philips made machines.
The AWB001 was a BOL Philips machine. Often there were two cheap models without variatronic spin. Here's a picture from 1975.
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Post# 974623 , Reply# 78 12/19/2017 at 14:02 (2,311 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Zanussi DL22 | ||
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Post# 974626 , Reply# 79 12/19/2017 at 14:14 (2,311 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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More Erres, 1970
This is from the time most Erres products were already Philips made, but at the bottom you still see some typical Erres products like the H-axis twintubs. The Erres Tombolux is a relabeled Philips CC1000 ofcourse.
This ad is an introduction for the new frontloaders at that time. "Erres introduces the wash computers". These machines had an "electronic brain that organises everything so fully automatic that they are nothing less than wash-computers". Ofcourse these machines are relabeled Philips Inclimatic machines.
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Post# 974711 , Reply# 80 12/20/2017 at 06:32 (2,310 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Douwe Egberts 1970
Douwe Egberts was the number 1 leader on the Dutch coffee market. On each pack of 250 grams of coffee there was a 10 points stamp. You could save for coffee cups, some silver items and for this then new Technivorm Douwe Egberts coffee maker. Moccamasters as they are named nowadays were only available through Douwe Egberts in the Netherlands. We were about the last country where you can now just buy them in a store instead of having to save points and pay some extra money. The needed 4000 points had a value of 40 guilders, which makes the price 75 guilders in total. Unlike later models, these came with a cone shape filter and a round filter. I guess that was to let the Dutch consumer getting used to the cone shape filter. The button under the water tank was for selecting normal for the round filter or fast for the cone shape filter. There is no on/off button yet.
"Douwe Egberts makes it easy to make a good cup of coffee".
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Post# 974733 , Reply# 81 12/20/2017 at 09:08 (2,310 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Before Douwe Egberts sold Technivorm Moccamasters they used the Wigomat for their loyal customer program. According to Wikipedia this was the world's first automatic drip coffee maker, designed and patented in 1954. The ad is from 1966. The Wigomat was still available in 125 Volts, by that time not many areas had that anymore, although in some areas 220 Volts was achieved by using two conductors so you got 220 Volts on the outlets.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigomat...
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Post# 974771 , Reply# 82 12/20/2017 at 15:16 (2,310 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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AEG
Thanks for posting the video of the AEG/Zanussi - I believe my aunt had one of those machine is the early 1970s - it replaced and English Electric front loader from around 1960 when she was married. That same aunt had an AEG Favorit dishwasher and vacuum cleaner - the latter two I have acquired into the collection, but this washer remains elusive. I had my fingers crossed when Mike told me that he had tracked down an BOL AEG/Zanussi that it might be such a machine but it turned out to be one from the early 1980s - although still a Zanussi - this time based on the 218 with 800 spin. The DL22 was also sold here for a while as a Hotpoint although it had a very different facia.
Well made? Well maybe, maybe not. The Zanussi my mother bought in 1975 (model DL6) had to have the outer tub replaced on 1975 when it rusted through and when the bearings went the following year that was that. The Zanussi which replaced it (218T) wash still working 18 years later and indeed could still be working somewhere in north Wales. The later AEG/Zanussi shown below Al
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Post# 974828 , Reply# 83 12/21/2017 at 04:24 (2,309 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Opel
Here's an ad from 1966 that introduces the Opel Rekord Caravan as the stationcar was named. The Opel Rekord C had been introduced in August 1966. The stationcar was new for 1967, at least here in the Netherlands. At that time Opel was the best selling car brand in the Netherlands.
"All the perfection of the new Opel Rekord with: even more space, more possibilities". New on this model C were also larger wheel base, bigger track width, a new rear axle with new suspension system, powerbrakes, disc brakes on the front wheels etc. The basic motor was 1.5 litre. The biggest was a 2.2 litre six cylinder, but I do't know if the latter was available on the Caravan. There were also a 1.7 and a 1.9 litre engine available. Automatic transmission was available on some models, from the start with a 2 speed Powerglide, in 1968 a 3 speed GM automatic transmission came available. Most cars were sold with a 4 speed stick shift transmission.
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Post# 975192 , Reply# 84 12/23/2017 at 16:23 (2,307 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Philips 1979
"This complete Philips washing machine is only 40 cm narrow". (40 cm = 15 3⁄4 inches)
This washing machine was presented as the solution for people with little space. It was only 56 cm deep and 85 cm high (not including the control panel). I'm not sure but I think this was the first 40cm wide toploader. Before taht Philips had the Philips Slimstar that was 45 cm wide. There was however a downside. Philips toploaders up to then had a spinspeed of 1000rpm (both the CC1000 and the Slimstar). This TOL model however did only 750rpm. The last TOL model of this series, the AWB119PH did 850rpm. That is the model I bought in 1982. Special about this machine was the spinspeed control that regulated the spin everywhere between 120 - 750rpm. There were also a temperature control 0-95 degrees Celcius, a 2 kg or half load button and an economy button. IIRC when the 2 kg button was selected, the machine gave two low water level rinses of the in total 5 rinses.
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Post# 975195 , Reply# 85 12/23/2017 at 16:35 (2,307 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Polaroid 1968
"Press the button and ten seconds later you see the photo. And you can believe it or not but with the same Polaroid camera you have a beautiful colour photo in 60 seconds".
I don't know in what year these were introduced in the Netherlands, but IIRC the first models only made b/w pictures.
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Post# 975197 , Reply# 86 12/23/2017 at 16:47 (2,307 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Rondomatic 1963
This is the presentation of the new Rondomatic fully automatic washing machine.
"One push of the finger... a complete wash programme" This machine had 11 fully automatic programmes for 2 kg and 4-5 kg laundry. Automatic dispenser, both inner and outer drum made of stainless steel, all ways of washing are possible with programmes for synthetics and wool. It had double wash technology (meaning prewash and mainwash). It could be switched between 2.25, 2.9 and 4.2 Kw for all possible electrical installations.
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Post# 975199 , Reply# 87 12/23/2017 at 16:53 (2,307 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Olympia 1962
"For father's business letters, for mother's private correspondence, for homework of teenangers and twens there is now the SPLENDID portable typewriter by Olympia. Especially designed for private use, easy manageable, handy in size, very strong and for a popular price: 250 guilders including a hardtop cover. Now your own Olympia for 250 guilders!"
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Post# 975234 , Reply# 88 12/23/2017 at 20:08 (2,307 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA) |
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Post# 975240 , Reply# 89 12/23/2017 at 20:44 (2,307 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 975443 , Reply# 90 12/25/2017 at 10:42 (2,305 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Miele 1966
"Discover how frugal a Miele is".
"A Miele washing machine is not a cheap machine. But a Miele is frugal because a Miele thinks. It thinks while it washes. It will never use more water than necessary. That will save money. It will never use more power than necessary. That will save money too. And above that: A Miele washes carefully. It washes everything thoroughly clean but treats all fibres with velvet gloves. That saves your laundry. And will save you even more money. Do the calculations... The sale price of a Miele divided over 20 years. Because then your Miele will still wash as clean and as careful as now. There is only one conclusion... A Miele is the cheapest, frugal solid machine there is!" "Miele, there is no better!"
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Post# 975444 , Reply# 91 12/25/2017 at 10:43 (2,305 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Miele 1966
"New! Miele (bone) dryer. (thanks for everything good old laundryline)"
"No dryingproblems anymore. Forget about the showers on laundry day. The time is over that you didn't know where to hang your laundry. There is now the new dryer. A beautiful machine, in terms of performance similar to the Miele washing machine. It will fit right next to it. It will make your laundry iron dry or bone-bone-bone dry in no time. Ideal for permanent press fabrics. Capacity 4kg of laundry. Heating times adjustable to the sort of laundry. Price F798.- (exl. tearing down the laundry line)" "Miele, there is no better!"
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Post# 975469 , Reply# 92 12/25/2017 at 19:25 (2,305 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Post# 975482 , Reply# 93 12/25/2017 at 21:34 (2,305 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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 I am always interested in how similar the Dutch language is to English. Many of the words sound similar, despite the quite different spelling rules (or lack thereof in English). This makes sense since the Angles who helped found England came from the Netherlands area. Of course, the grammar rules in Dutch are probably different as well.
But still, it's a brother language.
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Post# 975484 , Reply# 94 12/25/2017 at 22:08 (2,305 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Post# 975494 , Reply# 95 12/26/2017 at 01:34 (2,304 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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For example, and maybe Louis can help me out here, with my nearly nonexistent knowledge of German or Dutch...
For the 1963 Siwa ad, it says in Dutch, "Alles wat u van Wascombinaties hoeft te weten"...
My literal guessing of each word...
Alles - All (it's in the German anthem) Wat - What (sounds same) U - You (sounds same) Van - Of (as in Van Gogh, of Gogh) Wascombinaties - Twin Tub (or wash combo) Hoeft - Have (?) Te - To (?) Weten - Know (?)
The last three I guessed from Louis' translation...
The word order is interesting, and would not make sense in English, but I guess that's a hint of Germanic grammar, no?
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Post# 975502 , Reply# 96 12/26/2017 at 03:16 (2,304 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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The translation is right. English and Dutch and also German and Frisian and even Jiddish belong to the West-Germanic language family. So it shouldn't be too difficult to read. Our pronounciation is rather different though (think about the "g" throat sound).
The word order in German would be different too: "Alles was Sie über Waschbüffets wissen müssen". te/to would be zu in German, but that doesn't get used in that sentence. BTW, most people who are learning Dutch are finding it hard to learn. | ||
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Post# 975594 , Reply# 97 12/26/2017 at 13:42 (2,304 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Why would Dutch be more difficult to learn than, say, German? Of course I don't think German would be easy, but I understand that the rules, once learned, might make it easier.
I would think English is even more difficult to speak "properly", because the rules tend to be arbitrary, as well as the spelling and pronunciation. I think it's probably more difficult in English to express complex matters, than in German or Dutch, because we rely so much on a simple word order to determine which is the verb, object, etc. Is Dutch more idiomatic than German? | ||
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Post# 975600 , Reply# 98 12/26/2017 at 15:27 (2,304 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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I didn't say Dutch was more difficult to learn that German. Both languages are rather difficult to learn by asylum seekers from Africa and Asia. IIRC there was some kind of research with the outcome that English and Spanish were easier to learn for them.
I'm not a linguist and find it hard to judge how another language is compared to my own. For instance I think we in Dutch rely more on a simple word more than in English, the opposite of what you are thinking. Perhaps it's a matter of what language we are most familiar with. | ||
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Post# 975610 , Reply# 99 12/26/2017 at 16:05 (2,304 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Olga mattress 1968
"The new Olga electric mattress".
There is now the completely safe heated mattress on which you sleep lovely light and warm. The Olga electric mattress. You can regulate the heat yourself from cold to warm in nine settings, just like you want. For pleasant heat that comes from below". This ad tells about the possibility to win a safari eastern Africa. In the ad the "Kema Keur" is mentioned, it's a seal for an electric safety standard. BTW, the regulator for the heating is the same as that of Philips electric blankets, so there must be a connection.
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Post# 975630 , Reply# 100 12/26/2017 at 20:33 (2,304 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Louis,
Ah, I see. So both German and Dutch are difficult ;-). I didn't mean that in English we rely on simple words. Rather, that our grammar rules are so loose that we must rely on the sequence of words in a sentence to determine if a word is a noun, verb, object, or subject. I think (not really sure) in German and probably Dutch that there are modifiers for words to indicate if they are subject or object, so the order in which words are spoken may not be as important as in English. For example, in English we say, "I am taking her to the park". We cannot say "I her am taking the park to" as is perhaps possible (again perhaps, I'm in way over my head here) in some other more structured languages where the listener knows which words are subjects, objects or verbs from how the words are modified. The idea being that German is a more precise language - which makes it more difficult to learn, but perhaps makes it easier to be clear about what one is trying to communicate. Does that make any sense? Maybe I just need to study German. I've learned a little French, Spanish and even Mandarin, but for some reason, even though my degree is in a science, I avoided German. | ||
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Post# 975669 , Reply# 101 12/27/2017 at 02:16 (2,303 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Actually same with Dutch. "Ik neem haar mee naar het park" is the only right order. People who learn Dutch and are used to a different order sometimes say: "Ik haar meenemen naar het park", which sound pretty awkward to us.
Dutch is a difficult language to learn because of our sounds, like the throat g and unusual combinations of letters like schr, sch and ui. Also our unusual use of verbs like when there is a spot on the table we say: Er zit een vlek op de tafel which literally translates to: There sits a spot on the table. Further a book lies on the table and a vase stands on the table. There are also two prepositions for the word the. De for male and female words, Het for neutral words. Using those right is even hard for some Dutch. Ofcourse in German it's even more difficult. There is a lot more to say about this, but I will just finish with the translation of Why learning Dutch isn't easy: "Waarom Nederlands leren niet gemakkelijk is". ;-) | ||
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Post# 975671 , Reply# 102 12/27/2017 at 02:21 (2,303 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 975674 , Reply# 103 12/27/2017 at 02:43 (2,303 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Louis,
Have you ever read Mark Twain's essay on the German language? It's classic. I did some digging, and found this version: www.cs.utah.edu/~gback/aw... Also: drive.google.com/file/d/0B4xHZbr... And: www.lsa.umich.edu/german/hmr/101/... The last claims that Twain could actually write and speak excellent German, despite his humorous take on its ... idiosyncrasies... This led me to an investigation of the phenomena of inflection and declension, which I confess I never really knew about before (other than using them naturally as I speak). I confess I was never much of a fan of learning the science of English grammar - it all seemed superfluous to me, since I knew how to speak reasonably well as a child. But I think when learning a foreign language like German or even Latin, it may be advantageous, if not downright necessary, to understand the various grammatical concepts that set these languages apart. I also learned that Mandarin doesn't mess with inflection/declension, which made it relatively easy to learn, except of course for the required pitch changes which are hard for my Western ear to detect, let alone duplicate. When I was vacationing in Guatemala in the 70's, I ran across a couple of young women from Germany (we would call them, "Euros", LOL). I struck up a conversation with them, they taught me a couple of German words, and declared that I appeared to be capable of speaking German since I could duplicate the guttural sounds typical of it. I was so pleased with their judgement that I decided I had already accomplished so much with the language there was no need to learn any more of it ;-) I have since changed my mind. A good treatise on inflection: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflection... | ||
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Post# 975676 , Reply# 104 12/27/2017 at 05:02 (2,303 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN) |
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Post# 975677 , Reply# 105 12/27/2017 at 05:13 (2,303 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Same for a Korean trying to learn Dutch! LOL
Mark Twain is funny, but not always right. For instance there is a difference between Sie and sie. He missed that one. In German it's important to use caps where it's mandatory, otherwise the whole meaning of a sentence can change. Dutch is mainly an analytical language, although there are some exceptions. Enough about language for now, back to Dutch ads. | ||
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Post# 975749 , Reply# 106 12/27/2017 at 13:20 (2,303 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 975753 , Reply# 107 12/27/2017 at 13:40 (2,303 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 975813 , Reply# 108 12/27/2017 at 21:06 (2,303 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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| Post# 975851 , Reply# 109 12/28/2017 at 09:09 (2,302 days old) by keymatic (London / UK) | ||
Thread 61 & 69:
Hi James & Stefan, The washing machine you are referring to could be a machine from the late 50's produced by Parkinson - this machine had no actual agitator or pulsator - it moved the water by a strong pump and the special designed tub whirled the clothes around. I have only heard of 1 or 2 other machines that use jet water action to move the clothes instead of using agitation. Cheers Keith
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Post# 975870 , Reply# 110 12/28/2017 at 11:03 (2,302 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Interesting.
Although I wonder if the gentleness achieved by the water jet cleaning action is a bit negated by the relative harshness of the wringer dryer. And also perhaps the machine might not perform optimally with the higher sudsing soaps and detergents of the day. It's sort of an HE action machine way ahead of its time. | ||
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Post# 975871 , Reply# 111 12/28/2017 at 11:05 (2,302 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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I have some old San Francisco newspapers from the 1960's. I'll see if they have some washer ads (I recall that they do) and see if I can scan and upload them here.
I do recall one newspaper has a special feature on... LBJ's latest set of... boots... interesting that they thought those were newsworthy. | ||
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