Thread Number: 73715  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Why its better not to have a transmission
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Post# 973600   12/14/2017 at 08:37 (215 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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While I personally believe Speed Queen should have used a mod shifter instead of an agitub, I thought I would make a case about why its better not to have a transmission in a washer. Here is a perfect example:

1. Overloading and misuse in a commercial (or any other) setting can wear down a gear case very fast.

2. In another thread it was asked why couldn't the transmission stayed in the for the 2018 normal eco. From the comments it sounds like a low water level killed this one from to much drag.

3. When the transmission does go bust, its the last thing you want to change out. Since its so difficult its often a good idea to change the tub seal and bearing as well if the machine is older, another nightmare all on to itself.

All in all there is not much that can go wrong with a steel shaft.

Post# 973636 , Reply# 1   12/14/2017 at 11:23 (215 days old) by wishwash (Illinois)        

From a reliability standpoint, you are right. To be honest the only thing that will probably need replacement on these machines during their service life is the drive belt, or if unlucky the drain pump. I'm sure that Speed Queen has included very durable motors and bearings on these machines.

Post# 973640 , Reply# 2   12/14/2017 at 11:56 (215 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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And perhaps the inverter, but I'd rather replace that then anything beyond a belt.

Post# 973642 , Reply# 3   12/14/2017 at 12:13 (215 days old) by rp2813 (The Big Blue Bubble)        

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While I'm not pleased with the performance of the 2018 design, it makes perfect sense for laundromats, where people tend to cram too much into a machine.  Even with a traditional TL, cleaning ability is compromised when the load is too dense, but at least with the agitub design the owner of the laundromat wouldn't be dealing with the situation pictured above.

Post# 973646 , Reply# 4   12/14/2017 at 12:27 (215 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Yup- and I think thats the main reason behind the agi tub IMO.

Post# 973648 , Reply# 5   12/14/2017 at 12:28 (215 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean 1986 YouTube. )        

maytag85's profile picture
Reversing a motor back and forth uses more electricity than having a motor that spins in one continuous direction.

Post# 973650 , Reply# 6   12/14/2017 at 13:13 (215 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Depends on the motor. The motors used in transmission top loads are actually quite inefficient, second to shaded pole motors; while the motors used in none transmission models are 3 phase VFDs. 3 phase motors are superior just by themselves, let alone a VFD which can provide just the right frequency and voltage for the speed and torque needed. Best example is a VFD front load washer at the end of a cycle- the motor is literally only a few degrees above room temperature where as a traditional split phase motor is hot enough to burn fingers if touched long enough.

Yes reversing that tub full of water takes energy, but driving gears is not far behind.

Post# 973651 , Reply# 7   12/14/2017 at 13:21 (215 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        

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"Reversing a motor back and forth uses more electricity than having a motor that spins in one continuous direction."

A transmission has considerable frictional losses inside it that would more then offset any energy used reversing a motor.

Besides the VAST majority of the energy used by a washer is heating the water. If you want to bring up energy savings, it is time to forget about toploaders...

Post# 973652 , Reply# 8   12/14/2017 at 13:30 (215 days old) by ryanm (New York)        

My 10 yr old SQ made strange noise and didn't spin well at all. The repair people from the place I bought it from came and told me I would need a new transmission, bearings etc. to fix the issue BUT they would NOT fix it for me, said it was 'too much work' and they didn't want to get involved in that sort of repair, so I had to pay 120 dollars for the diagnosis only!! I spoke to someone else who represents SQ and they told me it was not worth it to have the repair done because once you hear problems with that sort of stuff, usually other parts are compromised too such as the motor. It would cost more for the labor itself than the machine was worth, best to get a new machine. I can see now from this video why the repair people didn't want to do it, looks like rebuilding the entire machine! Never had a problem like this with any other brand I have owned. Thanks for sharing the video.

Post# 973654 , Reply# 9   12/14/2017 at 14:06 (215 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
too much work

chetlaham's profile picture
You have no clue lol. {I mean this in a nice, joking way :) } SQ toploaders have to be by far the most labor intensive washers ever built. Its just not worth the work unless you have many hours and lots of pay.

They are right though- but for 10 years I disagree- the other parts should still be good.You should be able to get another 10 years easy. Now if the machine was 25 years old then I would say something else will probably give right after the transmission.

BTW, You think that video was intensive? Lulz! Check out the seal and bearing part starting at 4:20:

Unless there are no good alternative washers, when my Queen blows its transmission it will sadly be going to the scrap yard. For starters I don't even have the tools.

Post# 973655 , Reply# 10   12/14/2017 at 14:07 (215 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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And oh, welcome, my pleasure. Thank you for watching :)

Post# 973660 , Reply# 11   12/14/2017 at 14:43 (215 days old) by washman (Butler, PA)        

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I like gears.

Post# 973686 , Reply# 12   12/14/2017 at 18:37 (215 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

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I like the repair kid. : )

Post# 973688 , Reply# 13   12/14/2017 at 18:53 (215 days old) by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Replacing Main Seal and Bearings and Transmissions In SQ TL

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I have long said that few of the current SQs will ever get fixed in the field [ do keep in mind that GE TL washers since 1995 are just as difficult to fix, and they break down far faster than these SQs ].


I have also long said if anyone out there wants a traditional TL washer, get a good 1985-around 2005 WP built DD washer, these machines are far better performers than any MT or SQ EVER built and are easy to repair, you can get a used WP built DD washer and replace the transmission, clutch, motor, water pump, timer and inlet valve and still not spend as much as you would on a new SQ TL washer.


John L.

Post# 973749 , Reply# 14   12/15/2017 at 07:35 (214 days old) by ryanm (New York)        

I wonder if the new Maytag with 2 water levels and traditional wash are built like the old WP and wonder how easy they are to fix. My salesman told me it is the only Maytag model he wants to sell (the new one for home use that is made off the commercial line). I watched the video of it on youtube and it seemed to be just like the old Whilpool models for the most part with the dual action agitator. Anyone know anything about them?

Post# 973775 , Reply# 15   12/15/2017 at 11:00 (214 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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It's the new (2010) VMW (Vertical Modular Washer) design, not the "old" belt-drive or direct-drive.

Post# 973781 , Reply# 16   12/15/2017 at 11:23 (214 days old) by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
As Glenn mentioned in reply #15

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These new WP built VMW washers are nothing like the old BD and DD machines.

Some of the new VMW washers actually do use the same agitator, but since there is no tub break to hold the wash basket still during agitation the wash action is much more anemic and you can't wash nearly as large a load as in the older design washers.

If you want a real washing machine either get a vintage WP machine or a Calypso or a new FL washer.

John L.

Post# 973789 , Reply# 17   12/15/2017 at 12:21 (214 days old) by wishwash (Illinois)        

I'm not 100% sure but my VMW's tub seems much larger than the direct drive ones. I find agitation is not much different than the old Lady Kenmores, albeit slower. It can definitely handle as much if not more than a direct drive without being overloaded.

Post# 973861 , Reply# 18   12/15/2017 at 18:26 (214 days old) by Imperial70 (******)        

Everyone is saying they don't like the wash action. I don't believe what I'm seeing. Not calling anyone a liar, but I think you have to try it for yourself. Don't be quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Post# 974496 , Reply# 19   12/18/2017 at 17:46 (211 days old) by wft2800 (Leatherhead, Surrey)        

I'm not sure why everyone thought the old SQ TL was so good anyway, they were just rebadged old Amanas, not that reliable from what I've read, and the wash rollover was pretty poor. The new thing should at least be a bit more reliable, and it doesn't seem to wash any worse. You need a FL to wash really well, but SQ's just aren't that good - too many reliability and customer service horror stories, and no heater is a deal-breaker.

Post# 974513 , Reply# 20   12/18/2017 at 18:46 (211 days old) by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
TL SQs Are NOT Rebadged Amanas

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The Amana washers were developed BY SQ and built by SQ till Goodman then Maytag got the name, and yes under Goodman and MT there were were some durability issues that the currant TL SQs never experienced over the last 10 years +.


Yes turn over would have been better with a dual-action agitator and they should have had one.


There very few performance or durability complaints on SQ TL washers built over the last 10+  years compared to ANY other brand of AW for home use.


John L.

Post# 974523 , Reply# 21   12/18/2017 at 19:56 (211 days old) by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        
Speed queen tub seal/ trans swap

Guys, I can do a speed queen tub seal in 45 minutes start to finish. Trans swap adds another 10 minutes tops.

Post# 974543 , Reply# 22   12/18/2017 at 23:24 (210 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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But isn't it the hardest job out of all other repairs?

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