Thread Number: 73991  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Woman Purchases Miele Washer - Claims It Shakes House
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Post# 977588   1/9/2018 at 06:51 (2,269 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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This you have to read to believe....

Woman purchases a Miele W1 washer with 1600 rpm spin. Installs it in a dodgy built house on suspended wood floor... So each time thing spins it "shakes her house...."

After several solutions (that do not work), she's onto Miele whinging that machine is defective. Miele (true to their German nature) reply "no it's not"; and further point out that both advertising/marketing material and owner's manual state clearly machine needs to be installed on firm flooring.

Finally after getting no where with MieleUK the woman gets the Guardian involved who in turn put the screws to Miele and get washer replaced with Her Indoors paying nothing out of pocket.

www.theguardian.com/money...





Post# 977594 , Reply# 1   1/9/2018 at 07:37 (2,269 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Miele (at least in Germany) is an incredibly helpfull company in terms of customer service, especially by todays standards.

However, they do stay true to one thing: If there is no fault relating to the machine, they say that verry directly.
That however dosen't mean they don't care about details: One german user had an early W1 machine that had vibration noises from the TwinDos door and the shipping rods as well as the W1-typical occasional spring noise. Then some software issues arose.
Miele first tried to fix the issues, couldn't, thus replaced the machine, and as that had some simmilar issues as well, they offered him a last-gen machine in exchange.

Same if an issue is user related: They will politley point the customer to what they are doing wrong.
Even though they don't have to (and don't always do), they often will cover the first service bill for a user caused issue while under warranty.
One of the typical cases of that were the hoses conecting the pump chamber to the dispenser drawer as pressure equalizing path that tended to clog when lots of low temps and liquid detergent were used.

For us, they once replaced a washer PCB at 2 1/2 years, covering the part and labor, us just covering the waytime.
Sadly didn't help long, but oh well.



On that lady:

Well, yeah, Miele washers are heavy, they vibrate, they aren't the quietst, smoothest operators.
However, they spin.

I see her going to the next store, buying some cheap machine, setting it up (incorrectly, again), and the getting upset cause the machine won't spin at all and if it does, it still shakes the entire house.

Then she will call that manufacturer, wait weeks for some contracted in repair guy to show up, only to look at the machine, run a test cycle, and then leaving the door with words along the lines of incorrect setup, user fault, of course invalid warranty, thus leaving a bill on her table.


Wondering which machine she had beforehand that did not shake her house...


Post# 977598 , Reply# 2   1/9/2018 at 08:55 (2,269 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        

About a year ago, I had previously read of someone who had a Miele in a flat, through some online reviews. Its vibrations permeated through the fabric of the building, even affecting/upsetting the neighbours.

If the machines are designed for concrete floors, then Miele should state that they are unsuitable for suspended wooden flooring.

On the other hand, is it beyond Miele's technical expertise to offer a different type of tub suspension, one better tuned to wooden flooring?


Post# 977599 , Reply# 3   1/9/2018 at 09:08 (2,269 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Following or something like it has appeared in every Miele washer installation directions one has seen. This goes back to the w700 and 1065/1070 series.

Installation site
A concrete floor is the most suitable
surface for the washer. Concrete floors
are less prone to vibration during the
spin cycle than wooden floors.
Note:
 The machine must be leveled and
securely positioned.
 To avoid vibration while spinning, the
machine should not be installed on
soft floor coverings.
If the installation must be performed on
a wooden floor:
 Install the unit on a 2 ft. x 2 ft. x
1 3/16" (61 x 61 x 3 cm) plywood base.
Ideally the base should be large
enough to span several joists and
should be anchored to the joists and
not just the floor boards.
Tip: It is best to install the washer in the
corner of a room, where the stability of
the floor is at its greatest.
 There is a risk of the washing
***************************************

We've had this discussion before; Miele washing machines are closest one is going to get for the most part to commercial front loaders. Heavy weight is part of the suspension system and means these washers don't play around with spinning. They are designed to handle vibrations/unbalanced loads and not miss a beat. This while other washers will either take ages to "distribute" then spin, or maybe not at all.

Better still like commercial machines a Miele will tolerate these vibrations and still out last cheaper built washers on average.

You cannot fight physics. Forces generated by h-axis washers must go somewhere. That is to some degree down through base/feet of machine into flooring then distributed through building where they dissipate.

Would also love to know just what that woman was washing which caused the Miele to vibrate so badly that it was a regular occurrence. Either her terraced home is not built very well, or she is doing very badly mixed loads that cause washer to spin at various unbalanced degrees.


Post# 977603 , Reply# 4   1/9/2018 at 09:25 (2,269 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        

Maybe Suspa should get involved in Miele's designs?

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Rolls_rapide's LINK


Post# 977607 , Reply# 5   1/9/2018 at 09:49 (2,269 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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this, like any other case when purchasing something, read the fine print!...

nothing different than buying a car, a salesman can tell you anything, unless its in writing, you don't have a foot to stand on....

she is going on about that no one told her at purchase, yet she also claims to have done research before purchasing a new machine....sounds like she read around everything else, except that!

even if the salesman did mention of the flooring issue, that's a 'verbal' statement, what is written in black and white is what will stand up against any case....

this whole thing sounds sketchy at best....


Post# 977613 , Reply# 6   1/9/2018 at 10:11 (2,269 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Rolls_rapide

They certanly could design a suspension that could handle softer flooring, but they decidetly don't.

There are basicly 3 typse of washer I encountered on that subject: Those that transfer forces to the floor, those the dicipate forces within their structure, and those that dicipate forces mostly through dampers.

All following conclusions were made under the pretens that the machine is perfectly level.

If the machine isn't level, the whole story gets another level of issues:
In a FL, during spin, the only direct forces that can occur are forces in a 90° angle to the axial rotation center.
The only sidewards motion (coaxial movement) that could be created would be through a momentum due to the location of the loads across the tubs width, but these issues are extremly rare and I only ever encountered them on a theoretical basis. I guess that most drums are rigid enough so that a momentum can't really be introduced.
If the machine and thus the tub and its achsel is 100% horizontal, all forces created during the spin can only be in a 90° angle to that, so, vertical.
If they aren't level, the forces go slightly angled instead of perfectly up and down. This would mean that if we would divide this force into all its partial forces in the 3 dimensions of space, there would be forces going in all 3 dimensions, not just 2.
Thus, the machine could slowly nudge itself across the floor, not only up and down, which makes these force equations somewhat pointless as the system couldn't be seen as static anymore then.


Anyway, besides the point:


A) Machine designed to rely on its dampers:

In this machine, the dampers are designed to absorb and diccipate any force brought onto them during any part of the spin cycle, be that high speed with the high frequency of vibration with extremly high forces or the low frequency and less powerfull vibrations during a more low speed spin.

These machines stand almost solid as a rock during spin. The cabinet is designed to completly counteract the forces of the dampers without shifting within themselfes the tiniest bit.

Further, these machines work pretty decent on most floors as they have dampers specificaly calculated so that the force that might get transfered to the floor is minimal.

These machines rely heavily on close to perfect balance as they have to use rather soft dampers to absorb as much of the vibration spectrum as possible.
This means long balancing times and sensitivity to dampers that age, but therefor they can theoreticly spin on most any floor without vibrations.


B) Machines with shifting cabinets:

Sounds weired at first, but works pretty decent.

Here, the duty to absorb vibrations is taken by 2 different parts: Both the dampers and the cabinet.
One example from which I know that of is our AEG back home.

These machines have dampers designed for high speed spin vibrations (high frequency, high force, but low way of travel). This means that during high speed phases, the dampers absorb almost all the forces.

This however means that most lower frequency forces go right through them as they don't have enough force, but far more travel and a verry low frequency.
To absorb these, they designed the cabinet to have some tendency to be abled to sway. As the cabinet is rather large, it is perfect at absorbing these low frequency forces.

For the consumer, the machine spinning will at first look incredibly cheap.
As it ramps up, it literally visibly sways and seems as if it would be not tightly enough bolted together.
Then there is a certain point where the cabinet will seem to shake violently, almost loosing control, but the machine just keeps on ramping up. You might think its insane.
Then, suddenly, the cabinet stops moving entirely, and the noise changes.
Now the forces are great enough to be properly absorbed by the shocks, keeping them out of the cabinet and the floor.
During ramp down, the machine will just as well sound silent with only the drum swaying and as it slows to low rpm, the cabinet starts to move again.

These usually can spin pretty heavily undistributed loads, however, that cabinet swaying makes them all but silent machines and they seem rather "weak", swaying around all that much.



C) Machines relying on subflooring:

Now, if these machines could take a third way of getting rid of force into working, they could cover high, medium and low frequency vibrations.
And machines such like Mieles do.

As first "force dump", they use a solid flooring to absorb low frequency lower force vibrations.
Their dampers are designed to only give to the highest forces, and their cabinet is either designed to only react to medium speed vibrations or none at all, leaving even more vibrations to the floor to absorb (which most likely is the case with the Miele).
Once we get to the short hard vibrations of top speed spins, the dampers finaly take part and less vibration is transfered to the floor.

These machines make their out of balance load tolerances dependent on which subflooring they can suspect, and the more force that can absorb, the less carefull the machine has to spin.
On a solid floor, a Miele will be rock solid through all spin speeds no matter which load. The cabinet won't sway a bit (to keep that quality appearance) and it will spin basicly all the time.
But until the verry top speeds, most force goes directly to the floor. Only as we go full speed, some vibration is split to the hard dampers.

This, sadly, means that if there is no solid floor, the machine will transfer all the force to building. And that can get violent.
Even at max speed, there will still be a lot of vibration in the feet, resulting in your unsolid floor shaking violently.
But as max speed only makes up a tiny part of total spin time, the machine will seem like its the noisiest thing ever, though it will look somewhat solid standing.




Basicly, you can't have all: A machine that spins verry unbalanced loads time efficently and verry silently on every floor is not constructable.
You have to take out one of these factors, one thing that supports the others.
Miele went for the one, others for the other.


Post# 977621 , Reply# 7   1/9/2018 at 10:47 (2,269 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        
Henene4

Thank you for the concise explanation.

It also explains why my Zanussi IZ 1600 outperformed the previous AEG Oko Lavamat in exactly the same position in the kitchen. Softer, more floaty suspension.

My mum's Bosch had a dislike of wooden floors. The current kitchen has a concrete floor, and generally the machine spins as it should.

The only machine we had which seemed of a flimsier build regarding the moving shell/shifting case (to absorb the forces), would be the Hoover 'New Wave'. Hoover 'Logic' robustness it was not.



Post# 977646 , Reply# 8   1/9/2018 at 14:25 (2,269 days old) by wft2800 (Leatherhead, Surrey)        

My 2005-vintage Miele is dead quiet even in the spin, totally stable... but it is on a concrete floor!

Post# 977947 , Reply# 9   1/12/2018 at 00:38 (2,267 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

askolover's profile picture

My Miele is situated on a wood floor, but it's at the center load-bearing wall of the house under which stand the concrete piers on which the floor joists are supported.  It does have that one sweet spot while ramping up that will vibrate a bit, but once it speeds up a little beyond that, it smooths out significantly.  Yes, I feel the vibrations through the floor, but mom's TL Maytag does that too (also along the bearing wall). 


Post# 978077 , Reply# 10   1/13/2018 at 04:58 (2,265 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

arbilab's profile picture

The 50# UniMac in the hotel laundry shook the concrete slab.


Post# 978284 , Reply# 11   1/14/2018 at 13:02 (2,264 days old) by kenmore_elite (Cal)        

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It is absolutely unbelievable what some people expect Companies to cover.  We all pay for this.  A few days ago some woman returned a Christmas tree to Costco AFTER CHRISTMAS because she said it was dead.  I call it greed, arrogance and stupidity.


Post# 978410 , Reply# 12   1/15/2018 at 06:17 (2,263 days old) by iej (.... )        

I'd be interested to know of she ever had a washing machine mounted on that floor before.

I've had Miele medicines on wooden floors and they certainly can produce vibrations but you have to follow the installation institutions and put a think sheet of plywood bolted into the joists underneath. Even with that they will produce plenty or intense vibration.

I don't think it's unique to Miele though and she just needs to get her house structure sorted out.

We had three different machines in that location.

And older Miele which vibrated a lot but didn't move much on the floor. It eventually managed to shake the electronics and relays from the front panel so badly the machine failed but it did make it to 10 years old.

It was replaced by a very nice Bosch machine that used to walk and shook itself to death eventually, lasting only 4 years! Again multiple completed were damaged by the excessive shaking.

That was replaced by a Samsung Eco bubble which must bounced all over the place to try point I has to give it away. We couldn't even do a wash without the machine ending up our or poaition.

All three machine caused so much vibration they also damaged the fridge that was located about 1.5 metres away!!

Eventually I just built a new utility room, with a concrete floor and bought a new Miele machine and have had absolutely no issues since.

Unfortunately, you can't really use most washing machines on certain floors, at least not without serious vibrations or damage to the machine and whatever is next to it.

There's only so much dampening you can do and I guess maybe they should put a warning on the website, but it applies to every washing machine.

Shakey washing machines have always been a problem in Ireland and I assume it's also the same in the UK. Most older houses here have no solid floors. They're entirely suspended. In fact, it's one of the reasons that a lot of mid 20th century homes here started adding utility room that did have solid floors. Spin drying washing machines became a significant issue in house design.

In old terrace houses, you're often better to construct a small utility in the back yard to solve this issie as balancing watching machines on 19th century floorboards just never really gives you anything but noise issues.

Solid floors weren't used because of the very damp climate. It's common nowadays using modern materials, but using older building materials, it was very difficult to ensure a dry, warm building without using suspended floors. Effectively, you're isolating the internal structure from the cold ground.

They also used cross ventilation under the floor to avoid issues wirh radon etc etc.

I know a few people from the continent who are always complaining about the "bad" floors in Irish houses. They're often not the most tile friendly - you have to lay plywood and other underlays etc etc




This post was last edited 01/15/2018 at 06:33
Post# 978437 , Reply# 13   1/15/2018 at 11:16 (2,263 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        
Machine stability

Quite so.

I know of someone who had a 1990's Whirlpool frontloader. They could not get that bloody machine be stable on their suspended floor. They tried reinforcing the flooring. Eventually the machine wore itself out. Replaced by a 2000's model of Whirlpool which was perfectly stable.

And the underfloor cross-ventilation also assisted with ventilating the ubiquitous cavity wall space, keeping the various 'Rots' at bay (dry rot, wet rot, etc).


Post# 1196129 , Reply# 14   12/27/2023 at 23:45 by Washingpowder (NYC)        
Miele vibration

Sorry to be rehashing an old thread but I am actually extremely disappointed with my 2 yo W1.
The pre-wash/add laundry took forever to appear and they still haven’t made my way over.
There’s a number of issues that came out of the woodwork but what’s been driving me insane is the vibration and the noise.
For the first year and a half, it was extremely stable and silent. Then, slowly, the vibrations were getting more noticeable.
At this moment, I can barely wash at all: on some spins it ‘only’ rattles the kettle of the stove that’s on the opposite side of the kitchen. On most, I need to physically sit on the machine to prevent it from shaking the whole floor. Then there are some I immediately abort, once I see the drum being so unstable that I know it will be violently walking across the kitchen, sounding like the J train by Marcy Ave.
I thought maybe it lost its alignment so I spent countless hours trying to get it as level as possible to no avail.
I know it’s not the issue with my floor, most of my neighbors are definitely as diligent about leveling and placement and their machines are silent, even the old ones.
I’m not sure what to do, it’s past the warranty and I’m 90% sure the shocks are just gone.


Post# 1196131 , Reply# 15   12/27/2023 at 23:48 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
Seriously?

Is she serious? Is she that stupid? If she knew any better... Let me stop right there!

Post# 1196132 , Reply# 16   12/28/2023 at 00:37 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Vibration issues with newer model Miele washers

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There have been reports...

www.reddit.com/r/Miele/co...













If are sure washer is leveled property, suspension system is in order and so forth then turn to good wash practices. One should be washing like with like (bed linen with bed linen, bath linen with bath linen, clothing with clothing, etc....).

H-axis washers are happiest on "Normal" linens/cottons washes when loaded near or at capacity. Some washers cope better than others but generally things go better with full loads. In videos posted on YT or elsewhere with persons reporting issues with vibration they usually are washing less than full loads.

Finally things simply are what they are build quality wise nowadays. Miele like everyone else has taken some of the money out of washing machines.

My older W1070 washer is built like the Big Mo. She's rock solid with little vibration on most loads long as properly loaded.

While Miele washers today are still better built than many others, don't think they're the same quasi commercial units once were in days past.


Post# 1196133 , Reply# 17   12/28/2023 at 00:54 by Washingpowder (NYC)        

I do notice in those videos loads are less than ideal. My washing habits are excellent, thank you very much ;)
I did try to resort to only washing items of similar weight, but:
A full load of t-shirts knocked a stockpot filled with water off my stove
A semi full load of small microfiber towels (easy to distribute I’m sure) had to be stopped, machine started walking.
A load of towels is currently sitting in because I am done fighting with this nonsense for the night and will resume tomorrow.
What I did notice on the towels (all same size bath towels) is that in addition to great drum play, which is why I suspect the shocks, the machine’s distribution is absolutely bonkers. It will attempt the spin, get the load tumbling nice and fairly steady, abort, and immediately move much faster without letting things tumble itself out slowly. After seeing it do that a few restarts in a row, I decided I will skip Xanax’s and leave it for tomorrow.
My assumption is, with the machine’s weight and when shocks were in pristine condition, this would normally retarded distribution system wasn’t noticeable. Now they’re both adding insults to each others injury.
I really wanted to go with F&P but had such a great opinion of Miele I made the mistake.

On another note, while I loved the T1, the thing would be bugged by the slightest things. Including shutting down beeping with no error codes.
However; when a piece of fabric got caught between the filter and the drum and actually burned the belt, the machine continued like nothing happened for at least 10 minutes.
I firmly believe that I either bought the sketch behind the prototype of those machines, for a very premium price, or Miele is seriously selling cr*p for the price of gold.


Post# 1196136 , Reply# 18   12/28/2023 at 02:04 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Can't help you then....

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Two year old washing machine shouldn't have issues with shocks and other bits of suspension system having "worn in" as it were playing up against each other.

Unless you've been doing huge amounts of wash, and very heavy loads at that cannot imagine shocks on a Miele washer worn out in just two years.


Post# 1196137 , Reply# 19   12/28/2023 at 02:10 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Is your washing machine on a wooden floor? It’s possible that when the shock absorbers loosen up a bit, the vibration becomes too bad and make the whole house shake. Front loaders are best put on a concrete floor.

Post# 1196140 , Reply# 20   12/28/2023 at 04:31 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Unfortunately, you didn't mention what exact model you have.

If your machine is level, even a very worn out machine just wouldn't walk, and after 2 years, I would be highly surprised if the dampers were worn out.
Their quality has gone down, programming unfortunately has become an issue, but not quite that level.
Make sure the counter locking nuts on the feet are secured - many forget those and they are more critical than you think.

Given it shakes something on the other side of the kitchen, it just has to be on wooden flooring.



If the machine is 100% level, the counter nuts are tightened and all other installation requirements are met, I think you have an unlucky situation on your hand.

Dampers wear over time which changes the entire behaviour of the swinging system.
The reason FLs really badly want really hard flooring is that if the floor has any give, it becomes part of the swinging system.
That might work out if the dampers are very new OR very old, but at some point, the machine will start to vibrate at a certain frequency that is a resonance frequency of your flooring.
And when that happens, all hell breaks loose, as EVERYTHING on that floor will vibrate. It basically amplifies any vibration.
The weight of Mieles actually become an enemy then, since more weight once swinging has way more energy.

You should be abled to tell that the vibration in the floor starts to get worse at a certain spin speed and then better again at a higher spin speed.
Depending on which model you have, and once you figured out which spin speed is the worst, there should be a setting in the service mode for "resonance frequency".
That setting changes the spin profile to avoid a certain rpm range in that set region, reducing any interaction with the flooring.

Otherwise, the options are the typical re-enforcement of the flooring with a big wooden square, relocating the machine to a corner of the room if possible, or going at it with parts.
Dampers are an obvious thing parts wise. Though unlikely (and I don't know for sure how this machine would be have) it also could be the 3D sensor these machines should have on the drum. If it then defaults to just motor based OOB sensing that might explain why it suddenly lets spins happen when it otherwise didn't.


The dryer thing actually sounds weird - never had anything get caught between drum and housing in any of my dryers, especially my Miele.

But yeah, if the motor still can turn, the machine won't know anything is going on.
I know exactly of one dryer that had an actual drum speed sensor, and that has been out of production for a few years now.


Post# 1196144 , Reply# 21   12/28/2023 at 07:05 by bewitched (Italy)        

Miele sure can't be blamed if there are people living in "three piglet style" houses. Here where are not such houses, nobody has this kind of problems no matter the brand of the washer. perhaps the complaining lady should place the washer outside the house on a concrete platform.

Post# 1196150 , Reply# 22   12/28/2023 at 08:03 by Washingpowder (NYC)        

@Launderess, it was more of a vent but I appreciate your advice :)
@Henrik, it is a wooden floor, but the sturdy pre-war Bronx kind. I’ve always expected some level of vibration but not this bad. Even my old Nexxt with completely shot bearings didn’t make such a mess.
The thing is that the machine essentially goes into a full speed with the drum violently beating about.
I do think you’re onto something though with the dampers that lost some of their prime. I’m more and more inclined it’s a combination of that and shoddy programming.
I attempted to finish the towels and after seeing it slowly ramp up and the drum being more less going ok, it stops, and starts the ‘distribution’ significantly faster, essentially creating uneven load, beats about, gives out, and after 15 rinse and repeats it goes fluffit I’m taking a walk. It actually bangs against the sides, imagine that ramping up to serious speeds. It reminds me of those silly videos of people throwing bricks in the machine.
I don’t know: I was thinking about buying those little silicone pads that are supposed to lessen vibrations. I’ll live with the noise, just not the moving about.

Speaking of the dryer, I just assumed that considering it has a sensor for absolutely anything that may go wrong, such a sudden increase of load on the motor should have tripped something.

Miele is slowly turning me to one of those grandpas. I’ve had 3 front loaders in the very same spot for 9 years, never such an issue. This machine was whisper quiet and stable with very minimal vibrations only on heavy loads for the first year.


Post# 1196151 , Reply# 23   12/28/2023 at 08:11 by Washingpowder (NYC)        
Apologies, can’t edit

It’s a WWH860

Post# 1196155 , Reply# 24   12/28/2023 at 10:58 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

The WWH860 does have a clear text display, so going into the service mode shouldn't pose any risk.

Have the machine turned off, door closed.
Hold start pressed, turn it on. The start button should flash rapidly.
Press the start button 5 times, holding it pressed on the 5th time.
After holding for a few seconds, the display will come on saying some text. Then release the start button.

Scrolling through the options should be pretty intuitive.
There should be a setting for resonance frequency. There you can set different rpm numbers. Trial and error if any help - again, guesstimating at which rpm the vibration starts is a good starting point.
While in there, you can check if there is a setting for OOB sensing. The setting equivalent to motor/tacho and sensor should be set.

Again, that can help, but isn't warranted to. And don't change any settings in there you aren't sure about. You can brick a machine if you set wrong things.



The dryer technically has a way to sense a stalled motor.
But if the belt starts slipping on the pulley, it can happen that motor runs "as normal" while the belt slips.
There is no belt tension switch on basically any EU dryer I know like there is on some US dryers.


Post# 1196161 , Reply# 25   12/28/2023 at 12:23 by Mrlaundry1011 (South Wales, UK)        

You could always use a slightly damp towel and start spin in service mode (M5 + M8 in component test), increase 100rpm steps until you find out where the vibrations are the most aggressive and easily find the resonance speed

Post# 1196169 , Reply# 26   12/28/2023 at 13:46 by Washingpowder (NYC)        

That was so extremely helpful…kinda :)

I’m familiar with that menu because that’s how I increased some water levels.
Using MrLaundry’s advice (which is in the 3 button pressed menu, if anyone needs that info, I found out the banging started at 600, started banging at 700, and almost walked at 800. By 1200 it was running smooth enough for operation.
However, my resonance adjustments are only available between 1200-1600….

Speaking of the imbalance sensor settings, it’s set to Tacho+EZU. The other options are:
Tacho
Tacho+Imbalance sensor

Am I correct to assume that has to do with components of this particular machine, and changing it to tacho+imbalance sensor wouldn’t do much/fry some circuits?
Does anyone know what EZU is? Just curiosity.


Also, thank you all for contributing. I really want this machine at least workable, there’s no other that would be true to temp with actually delicate cycles.


Post# 1196172 , Reply# 27   12/28/2023 at 14:21 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

That setting should be correct. As far as I know, the EZU is one of the control units that has certain sensor functionality.
As long as it's not just tacho, that's fine. Just haven't had a W1 under my fingers for so long that I didn't remember the possible settings.
However, changing that setting can't really brick anything AFAIK, worst it could do is store an error code or alter spin performance for the worse. You can always go back in that menu and change that back.
Maybe even try just setting it to tacho - it would probably use different OOB values for the more imprecise sensing which might end up giving a benefit in your specific scenario.

You could always try setting it to twice the speed you experience issues at, so maybe 1500rpm.
That however is a shot in the dark as that programming functionality isn't really documented in a publicly.
But resonances usually can appear at multiples of the base frequency, so I wouldn't put it off Miele programming in behaviour avoiding all rpm ranges at half and a quarter of the set speed.


Post# 1196187 , Reply# 28   12/28/2023 at 21:53 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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My AEG Lavamat has a sweet spot with certain loads.

It will vibrate and shimmy at a lower spin speed with such loads, but as things rev up to higher rpms it quiets down.

Issue is that with final spin if rpm selected is lower than sweet spot one simply has to live with noise since machine won't go any higher.


Post# 1196216 , Reply# 29   12/29/2023 at 15:37 by Washingpowder (NYC)        

@Henene, I’ll try and change it to tacho only and do a load, I’m curious now. It became a science project lol
The thing about using higher speeds is it still has to go through the 700-800rpm stage and that’s when things get crazy. It doesn’t accelerate that fast either, it seems to be staying in that range for a few minutes, then 1200 and only for the last 2 minutes of spin she goes to 1600.
I’m tempted to open the top and see that maybe one of the springs unattached itself or something. Will report back :)
@Launderess, my Bosch did that exact thing, and it was actually kinda…cute? It would start slow, wobble itself for some time and then kick into full speed. It never really sent any vibrations to the floor or moved, it was the machine itself. I think I remember reading in the manual that it was normal. And truth be completely told..I think it washed better. It tangled everything into giant balls but I just feel like I’m not getting *just* the same result from the W1, regardless of the tweaks of settings. The Nexxt laundry was just whiter and rinsed better.
Don’t get me wrong, the quality of clean from the Miele is outstanding but it that 2% difference. I’ve felt like it since I bought it and for a good time was messing about with settings, then I gave up and accepted that some things will just stay the way they are.


Post# 1196219 , Reply# 30   12/29/2023 at 16:31 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

That's something I haven't heard I think ever. The Bosch Nexxt machines were regarded as very mediocre on basically ANY regard as far as I am aware.

Haven't used one ever, but think that Mieles would perform better.
But I liked how my Miele performed without pany water level adjustment, so what do I know.



The resonance frequency setting does not avoid the vibrations entirely from what I understand.
They just shift rpm steps in the spin profile to not be at that specific speed. So basically, if a resonance happend at 1200rpm, and you set that, the machine would accelerate quickly through that speed range to lets say 1300rpm.
It would still hit the resonance speed, but minimise the time at that speed.

My theory then was that the machine only has such high settings because it not only avoids that setting, but also the half and quarter speeds of that.
Basically, setting 1500rpm, it avoids 750rpm and 375rpm aswell.



What I do know is that EU washers are just not designed for any wooden construction.
While US FLs go as far as sometimes offering 2nd floor guarantees (or used to at least with ELux), EU machines go as far as offering specific machines that can be ordered with adapted suspensions for wood floor installation (like VZug).

So 2 different design ideas: US FLs are designed with the knowledge that installation in US typical construction is likely.
EU washers are designed with EU construction in mind, where I lived in wooden housing once - and that was a farm building from early 1900.


Post# 1196244 , Reply# 31   12/29/2023 at 23:42 by Brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Have you also checked that your legs aren’t over extended and that the locking nut is done up tight?

Our W1 has always been on concrete, but the earlier machines were on a wooden floor and would vibrate significantly. The best improvement came from screwing all 4 feet up to the base of the machine, then only letting them down just far enough to get level l, then tighten the nut.

The W5000 on concrete was vibrating significantly until I did the same, it’s feet were almost fully extended when I got it, with the nuts loose.


Post# 1196846 , Reply# 32   1/10/2024 at 00:39 by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
My garbage disposal is taking on this wanting to make a frivolous lawsuit quality...

A Lego piece was the most unusual thing I'd put down in it via my kitchen drain and I believe it's been making a strange and struggling groaning sound shaking up my house ever since...


-- Dave



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