Thread Number: 74059  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
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Post# 978376   1/14/2018 at 23:04 by speedqueen (Harrison Twp, Michigan)        

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Since no one posted this here, yet.

I guess they really are latching down on the negative image they are already getting. Eugene gets blacklisted and their ad with all the public negative comments on their new machines got me a copyright strike as featured in my other thread. So much for customer service...

Post# 978379 , Reply# 1   1/14/2018 at 23:43 by trappn (Illinois)        
A Sad State of Affairs

Stumbled upon this, too, on YouTube.

Post# 978386 , Reply# 2   1/15/2018 at 00:48 by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Sheets in that new SQ washer----WRAP----UNWRAP---REWRAP----and it goes on!Too bad!Was going to have higher hopes for SQ.

Post# 978395 , Reply# 3   1/15/2018 at 02:40 by logixx (Germany)        

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This was already posted in one of the private forums nut thanks for posting it publicly. Shame about SQ's behavior. I guess we should be careful of they want this forum to be shut down as well... ;p

Post# 978397 , Reply# 4   1/15/2018 at 02:49 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
No more!

I was gonna have high hopes for Speed Queen. No more!

Post# 978406 , Reply# 5   1/15/2018 at 04:49 by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))        

Let me guess.  They're coming out with a firmware update.  Just plugin your wifi (sic).


Seriously abysmal.  Have to wonder if the designers so much as put water in one of these and watched what it did.

Post# 978408 , Reply# 6   1/15/2018 at 05:30 by chetlaham (United States)        
Thats just sick

chetlaham's profile picture
So they would rather have people ignorant up front, purchase the machine, only to discover how awful it is latter on? Yahhh, no. Thats all I need to know from here on in.

Either that they are deliberately trying to get a reaction out of us in order to discredit us- however it wont matter once the bad customers reviews flood vindicating us.

But if you want to know my honest opinion I think it might be simpler than that: Alliance no longer wants anything to do with the residential market. Its not their bread and butter so they have nothing to loose dropping the line altogether.

Lastly I know conspiracies are not welcome here, but this just reinforces my belief everything is controlled by a tiny cabal. As someone on the inside once told my 15 years ago "in a decade everyone will be compelled into buying European washing machines" I never believed him, but 15 years latter I am seeing it with my own eyes.

Post# 978419 , Reply# 7   1/15/2018 at 07:57 by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        

My apologies everyone I forgot there was a public/ private section here. Thank you for posting it here

Post# 978426 , Reply# 8   1/15/2018 at 08:57 by chetlaham (United States)        

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I can't get into the private section, so this helps a lot. I would not have seen this thread otherwise.

Post# 978430 , Reply# 9   1/15/2018 at 09:23 by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Air bubbles trapped under sheets during the whole rinse period indicate poor/inadequate agitation. I remember my mother's two Kenmores with the RotoSwirl agitators did that and that was more than 60 years ago. This machine used a lot of water inefficiently. I wonder why it gives only short periods of regular oscillation during agitation.

Other parts of the world get a SQ fl with a heater. There are tub fronts shown with holes for the heaters. In this day and age of such reduced water usage and water heaters set to such low temperatures, a front loader without a heater is like a canoe without a paddle. I don't care how much money SQ gets from government bonuses for low energy use, if you cannot get a 140F wash with the water heater set at 150F and, after you purge the lines of cold water, do a hot fill and drain to heat up the machine before loading it and starting the wash cycle, the machine is not in a class with those machines that can.

Post# 978432 , Reply# 10   1/15/2018 at 09:44 by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Alliance deserves exactly what they are going to get

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When you buy a Kirby or a Health-Mor product, you do get tangible value for your money. Buy a pre-2018 SQ and you got the same.

In all cases, overpriced, but the cleaning results were obvious.

Now? You spend a fortune and get a piece of trash.

This will not end well for them - the sort of people who can afford to spend that sort of money pay attention to these matters.

Post# 978460 , Reply# 11   1/15/2018 at 13:59 by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

Yeah that's the thing right there, people buying a Speed Queen buy it because they want results with no frills. Alliance is trying to pull the wool over the exact crowd that has had it done to them before by Whirlpool, etc. So they're already wise to this, and it won't end well.

Post# 978473 , Reply# 12   1/15/2018 at 16:11 by chetlaham (United States)        

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"the sort of people who can afford to spend that sort of money pay attention to these matters"

I nominate and vote this as post of the year. Said it best- nearly every SQ buyer is an educated, informed person or someone trying to escape the mainstream lidlock/poor cleaning/ect, ect. This washer alienates the very buyers of SQ.

Post# 978479 , Reply# 13   1/15/2018 at 17:02 by Supersurgilator (Indiana)        

This is just absolutely disgusting behavior by Speed Queen. I for one have no respect for them whatsoever. If you can't take a little constructive criticism about your product or a negative review from a paying consumer, then you have NO business being in business! I always looked up to them for being one of quality and good products that looked out for the consumer, and was proud to be made here is the USA, but no longer. I have often wondered if they are trying to just get out of the residential market. If that is the case, then just GO and don't leave a bitter taste in everyone's mouth who have thought so highly of your company for so many years.

It's not going to be a pretty end for them, and unfortunately it's going to be all of these private dealers who are gonna suffer. Is SQ going to take back the machines that the customers return, or is that local dealer going to be out money? I honestly can't wait until all of the complaints from the angry people who purchase these new machines come flooding their doors! Speed Queen, you have just lost all of my respect I've ever had for you!

Post# 978480 , Reply# 14   1/15/2018 at 17:05 by henene4 (Germany)        

With it's last overhaul, they only did a few videos as far as I remember. One being a comparison of a Maytag to the SQ.

No, all of the sudden, they push out video after video on how to get best results, just like WP used to.

It seems that they themselfes are catching on to something. Which is kind of said. I mean, I never really defended their machines much because they were crude, to put it simple.

But they were an option for people, and people were happy with the money they spent, so yeah. They were machines and SQ had a market carved out.

Sadly, this generation shows SQs one huge problem IMO: Their ability to innovate their wash system.
They didn't really with their FLs, they didn't really with their TLs.
So they will go the way of every manufacturer for the home market.

Waiting for some to really shake up the US market, thoguh, quite honestly, I also hope nobody does so I can someday possibly...

Post# 978481 , Reply# 15   1/15/2018 at 17:12 by Gyrafoam (Roanoke, VA)        

Yeah, it will knock off the office dust and that's about it. The ramp up to spin sounds impressive. Like an old RR Dart spooling up. That's about it. As I have stated in previous posts our SQTL at the office gets a pretty good work out. The vast majority of loads are sheets and towels. While the machine does get the clothes clean, ithas a tendency to tangle the sheets, and so does the dryer.

I had an interesting conversation with a service tech the other day and he is already recommending another brand. Spoke with two different distributors. They know me and they are not thrilled with the new machines either.

The free enterprise system works. Word will get around and the folks at SQ will be looking for new jobs. The old folks used to say "if you step in drek, scrape it off of your shoes and keep on going".
I wish you well.

Post# 978487 , Reply# 16   1/15/2018 at 18:11 by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

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(Sophia from Golden Girls...)

"Picture it... 2018... Speed Queen from the head quarters in Sicily decides to take out the American Market in a sneeze.) Of course just kidding ... but... they don't want to deal with snivilling American domestic customers so they build a machine that most people want nothing to do with except their loyal customers.
Fast forward... Lid Lock it so they can't find out what's going on in there... and BANG... they are changing detergents, settings, everything... but the average American consumer will shrug it off and just say it was they're user error.

I am 62 years old and figure with the rate new diseases are introduced on a regular basis, Allied will go back to building commercial machines and drop the Domestic "Platform". (Had to put in my Baby Boomer update on what I think is the proper wording but really don't give a crap)
So... I won't be around to see the final outcome of this nonsense.

I have a Miele 4842, a Maytag H806, a Unimatic which will soon be ready to run (if Greg ever gets here or Jon : ) ) so I'm good until my demise.

But all the other wonderful people here I hope this all turns out well.

It just bangs the hell out of me the cost of these flimsly machines.

As a matter of fact I was at a local watering hole in Barnstable tonight (Imagine that) and we talked about the price of things. In 1972 when I started driving ... fuel was $.37 a gallon.

If I need another machine before I go, I will seek out a used something . : )

Or see what coldspot66 has in his stash... And he has some stuff ... LOL

Post# 978492 , Reply# 17   1/15/2018 at 18:51 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
Speed Queen, screw you!

Speed Queen, I have lost respect for you! I don't forgive you after what you did! You made a washer with a lid lock that doesn't clean and released them! Your 2017 and older models were the best! For you to totally ruin a washer is TOTALLY abysmal of you! You did what Maytag did to their customers ever since their Neptunes! No more! Speed Queen, screw you! Goodbye!

Post# 978495 , Reply# 18   1/15/2018 at 19:00 by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

It's like they're firing back at Eugenes videos...with glossed over marketing and speeding through any bits of the machine operation...

Post# 978497 , Reply# 19   1/15/2018 at 19:16 by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        
Share the videos

Guys feel free to share my videos with anyone you know. Since they want to delete everything on their fb page, just post it on yours!

Post# 978522 , Reply# 20   1/16/2018 at 01:17 by speedqueen (Harrison Twp, Michigan)        

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Eugene, I paraded your video through the SQ twitter page yesterday and got one of the SQ loyalists who comments positively on everything to reconsider.

Post# 978530 , Reply# 21   1/16/2018 at 03:38 by chetlaham (United States)        

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At 1:07, are they showing a commercial machine?

Shame on that level of deception.

I would leave a very enlightening comment, but don't want to risk my YouTube account since I am willing to bet they will give Google a ear bashing.

Post# 978534 , Reply# 22   1/16/2018 at 06:03 by Gyrafoam (Roanoke, VA)        

Nobody is mentioning the dryers. I am curious to know if there have been any improvements with their performance? The five-year old Gas one I own has always been SLOW. Especially when compared to my 1969 Whirlpool Gas dryer.
And, just like the washer, will tangle a full load of sheets. The Electric dryer at my office is equally slow.

Post# 978536 , Reply# 23   1/16/2018 at 06:15 by chetlaham (United States)        
Speed Queen dryer

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Here is the truth that has stopped me from buying SQ dryer: Whirlpool top mount lint filter dryers are simply the best bar none. They are the fastest and gentlest dryers on the market. Not to mention easy to fix and parts are plentiful. I think there are more of them then actual DDs in existence. I considered buying a dryer at the same time when purchasing my washer, but the WP center dial Maytag dryer was to new and much to good of a dryer. In fact if I was a buy a laundry pair at this exact instant it would be a 2017 SQ or SQ FL with a MOL Whirlpool dryer even though style wise they are worlds apart. In fact GE's dryers aren't that bad either in terms of performance and being quiet. SQs dryers never swayed me much unlike their washers.

Post# 978537 , Reply# 24   1/16/2018 at 06:15 by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Just noticing-did you see the "made in China" components on the closeup of one of the boards?Guess that's the norm with all circuit boards these days.

Post# 978539 , Reply# 25   1/16/2018 at 06:19 by chetlaham (United States)        

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Good eyes. I missed it, but yahhh, not surprised. I think SQ wants out of the resi market.

Post# 978540 , Reply# 26   1/16/2018 at 06:21 by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

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"At 1:07, are they showing a commercial machine? "

That was definitely NOT the AgiTub thing.

Post# 978542 , Reply# 27   1/16/2018 at 06:45 by chetlaham (United States)        

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Yup- thats what I suspected. Shame on SQ. They don't want people seeing the anemic wash action.

Post# 978558 , Reply# 28   1/16/2018 at 10:38 by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

I sent my aunt Eugenes last video and her response was exactly this: "How could that honestly get anything clean when it's not really agitating it's just swishing the clothes around you could come out with cleaner clothes washing them by hand".

Methinks the lidlock had nothing to do with keeping children's arms out during spin cycle...

Post# 978570 , Reply# 29   1/16/2018 at 11:52 by ken (Ulster Hgts, NY)        

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Speed Queen should have installed window lids on the new models so consumers could witness the excellent cleaning action.

Post# 978587 , Reply# 30   1/16/2018 at 14:45 by washerdude (Canada )        
Smaller Tub Size?

Not much of a difference, but the models are now live on AJMadison. The old models are already discontinued by them.

Old Electronic Model:

New Model

Post# 978752 , Reply# 31   1/17/2018 at 19:42 by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
It wont take long

They will be selling 0 washers! This thing really is pitiful.I will stick to my good old antiques.

Post# 978761 , Reply# 32   1/17/2018 at 20:08 by joelippard (Hickory, NC)        

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So, they can't handle some constructive criticism about their products.  This highly suggests they know this is not as good as the former.  Screw them and their new fangled pieces of crap.  I wouldn't have that damn thing in my house!

Post# 978921 , Reply# 33   1/19/2018 at 00:56 by Spinmon (st. charles mo )        
'roo' knows...

SQ says they've sold over a million machines in Australia.(I don't know the period of time for this.) Maybe they don't give a rip about USA sales.

I don't understand what ''new regulations'' would allow the new washer and not the previous.

I love my 2012 AWN542,but the new transless makes 0 sense to me as it uses the same amount of water,but seems ineffective and sounds like it's in pain.

I wish SQ no ill will,but DAMN,who is in charge here?!

I'm 63 and hope my 542 lasts as long as I do. Cheers,Bill

Post# 980283 , Reply# 34   1/28/2018 at 17:45 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
New SQ TL Washer

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Spins out more water and uses a 1/4 of the electricity to run the motor, it also for the first time has auto sensing for load size to use less water on the Eco-Normal cycle.


John L.

Post# 980297 , Reply# 35   1/28/2018 at 18:43 by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

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But I have to disagree... I really don't care what the usage is on this machine. It just plain S--ks.

Watching all of Eugene's Vids, what is there to like ???

Poor turnover, Lame Washing, Wadding sheets... reminds me of a Early Westy Front loader.

This would never be in my collection even for shits and giggles.

Just Horrible. In my own opinion, there is not even one thing to like. And I understand John being a SQ guy and distributor, but I ( not being in the business) think this line will hurt you. Just on the consumer end.

But I love that New Maytag Commercial made by Whirlpool.

Speed Queen's new Top Loader will be nothing but a head ache.

Nonsense... SQ Small load of Whites.

Maytag vid is small load of Whites.

Which would you choose ?

Post# 980301 , Reply# 36   1/28/2018 at 18:58 by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

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You're a HERO ( to me) on for really standing up to Speed Queen !!!

They should be ashame of themselves. But I think they did this for a reason.

Thoughts ???

Post# 980303 , Reply# 37   1/28/2018 at 19:10 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
high hopes washed away

I had high hopes for this machine. It did okay with the first load. However, the more videos I saw, the less hopeful I became. They really had something going here.

Post# 980304 , Reply# 38   1/28/2018 at 19:14 by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

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I keep watching the Maytag vid and it reminds me of a Old School "Tag" but with a smidgen quicker stroke than our beloved Helicals...

Post# 980307 , Reply# 39   1/28/2018 at 19:20 by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        
Thereís no way they didnít know

I think they are trying to shift away from the working class person to the upper middle class. I noticed their front page went from dirty construction workers to housewives.

Their new machine checked a lot of boxes
1. Agitator
2. Quiet
3. Reliable
4. Full tub of water

Like I said in my review, Iím sure there will be a large group of people who think this washer does well. Sq just alienated their entire fan base (betrayed really). This washer may be well received initially, but I put this washer in the ranks of the calypso washer, oasis, Neptune TL, etc.

Itís just a really expensive washer that doesnít perform very well.

Post# 980308 , Reply# 40   1/28/2018 at 19:23 by scrubflex (bronx, new york)        

I agree with you chetlaham, was thinking the exact thing...(won't be surprised to hear Whirlpool buys Alliance Corp)...all they have to do is design a more effective agitator...not a difficult task...they had one of the best agitators in the market...capable of handling 'overloaded' loads with ease...why RISK losing so many customers...doesn't make any sense

Post# 980309 , Reply# 41   1/28/2018 at 19:26 by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

toploader55's profile picture
You are being very kind to SQ.

I am trying to find another vid to just update my thoughts. But I don't think it will matter at this point.

none the less... I am happy you stood up for what you believe in.
I am honored to know you.

Ah... here it is... Just a wash in the 806 to compare to the SQ, New Tag and the good ol' 806...

We're sorry ... we are experiencing a technical difficulty... Please Stand By

In the mean time... You gotta spend money to make money and you get what you pay for. (Not so much these days)

Post# 980325 , Reply# 42   1/28/2018 at 23:56 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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You ALWAYS pay for what you get....SOMETIMES you get what you pay for!

Post# 980364 , Reply# 43   1/29/2018 at 06:49 by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

joeypete's profile picture
I have very mixed feelings about this machine. Being open minded, I've defended HE top loaders because, well, I've used them and found them to work well when used properly. This one though, I don't know. I completely understand and believe that you don't need to thrash items all of the place to get them clean and this method of agitation probably works fine. BUT, it does seem to work better on smaller loads. I really don't care to spend that much money to try it out either, so I may never know first hand.

Post# 980369 , Reply# 44   1/29/2018 at 07:22 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
The New SQ Top Load Washer

combo52's profile picture

I was the first one hear on AW to voice concerns about this new design SQ washer and many here dough ted my concerns about this machine.


The company that Jeff and Jason and I founded and run after almost 40 years has consistently been the top rated service and SALES appliance company in consumer and manufacturer surveys in the DC area for over 30 years, we always look out for our customers FIRST making economical repairs and giving good deals on new appliances that are proven to be good values and that we believe in.  [We have never sold a Samsung or LG branded appliance for example or even a GE branded laundry appliance ]


I am proud that my buddy Eugene got a hold of this new washer and posted the results for all to see, I think that SQ overreacted to his tests and they will in the end do more harm to their brand by doing so.


I have voiced concerns about this new washer to our sales rep, the distributor, the Service reps and back to SQ in Wisconsin as well, but at this time I am choosing to work within the system to affect change. I have an obligation to the thousands of customers that have purchased SQ appliances in this area to offer service and support and intend to do so.


I am very disappointed in SQs plans to curtail sales of their great FL washers this year, this to me is the bigger story here.



As to all the hype about the so called MT Commercial TL washers, we have sold some of these and will also offer them, BUT this is no where near as good a machine as the WP DD washers in washing performance, without a tub brake it simply does not wash as large a load as the DDs. It is basically a slightly improved VMW top load washer which WP brought out in 2010 and these machines have had all kinds of SERIOUS durability and PERFORMANCE problems and a large percentage of customers HATE them, we replace several every month where customers just can't stand them any longer.


For the washer collectors here on this site that want a traditional top load machine you are better off getting a slightly vintage machine like a 1985-2008 WP built DD washer, there are also other good vintage options depending on how much work you want to do and how much you want to spend.


John L.

Post# 980374 , Reply# 45   1/29/2018 at 08:14 by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

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I read some of the manuals for these new machines and from what I gathered, it seems as though using a higher water level helps this machine clean better. After watching Eugene's video on the work pants, heavy duty was used, but so was auto fill. I think a higher water level would have been better for that load. The pants might have moved around more.

So again with my experience in HE washing, this machine has fallen into the "trap" if you will, that you have to pay more attention to how your washing your items. Meaning cycle selection/water level. One reason I went to a more traditional style of washer with my F&P, is that I was growing tired of constantly tweaking the machine. They give you plenty of options but it seemed as though I had to "baby" the machine to get to work properly. Most consumers are NOT going to do that, hence why so many new washers get bad reviews.

Post# 980524 , Reply# 46   1/30/2018 at 00:23 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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They give you plenty of options but it seemed as though I had to "baby" the machine to get to work properly. Most consumers are NOT going to do that, hence why so many new washers get bad reviews.


Most people these days don't know how to do that!

Post# 980526 , Reply# 47   1/30/2018 at 00:41 by chetlaham (United States)        

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@Combo: and I was one of the first to trust you even though I could not publicly espouse that because it resulted in your intelligence being questioned by a select few members.

Tub breaks: You know, this kills me. It just does. Because the design that they took it from had a tub break or rather a clutch drum band. I see no reason why this could not have been carried over. "It wont work on a full sized washer" the critics will quip. BS! Well guess what, it does:

I don't understand why America always gets inferior products that same tuff being sold in Mexico, Canada, and Australia have significant improvements.

Post# 980528 , Reply# 48   1/30/2018 at 00:43 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
@askolover: most people aren't going to if they can. Its called automatic for a reason- we just don't have the time and energy. Laundry is the last thing that should require more than basic intervention. Plus many are spoiled by DAAs that tolerated overloading very well.

Post# 980529 , Reply# 49   1/30/2018 at 01:04 by Losangeles (Muscle Shoals, AL 35661)        
DDAs ??...2018 Speed Queen Washers

losangeles's profile picture

What is the long version of DDAs?  As for the 2018 Speed Queen TL as posted in Eugenes vid,  you could not give me one of those machines.  I may be old fashioned, but I want control of the speed of agitation/spin,  Water temp, and water level.   I do not need a computer telling me how to do laundry!  Thanks for letting me share.  Tommy

Post# 980530 , Reply# 50   1/30/2018 at 01:44 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
Dual Action Agitator

Simply the best and most energy saving invention in TL laundry ever. You can fit much more clothing and it will come out cleaner.

Post# 980535 , Reply# 51   1/30/2018 at 02:25 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

ChetLaham:† Dual Action Agitator

Simply the best and most energy saving invention in TL laundry ever. You can fit much more clothing and it will come out cleaner."
Which brings up the question of why do I keep seeing so many videos of machines with DAAs (that includes all brands that have them) running underloaded?

Post# 980538 , Reply# 52   1/30/2018 at 02:45 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
For the same reason you see single post agitator machines under loaded. People tend load less and use more water then is needed. Much like dryers with timed dry often got set near the max.

Post# 980557 , Reply# 53   1/30/2018 at 07:34 by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
The fact remains

Nothing on the market today will wash or rinse as well as the washers of old, Whirlpool/Kenmore belt drives, GE/Hotpoint Filter flo and Rim Flo, of course Norge! even a old Maytag will out do ANY of the new machines, and just as long as I can keep one running, I'm using vintage!

Post# 980610 , Reply# 54   1/30/2018 at 15:31 by speedqueen (Harrison Twp, Michigan)        
I'll testify to the same

speedqueen's profile picture
My MT A207 out-washes and easily out-rinses our AWN432 and my newly acquired 1965 RCA Whirlpool easily performs better than even its modern gas counterpart. Vintage for the win!

Post# 980672 , Reply# 55   1/31/2018 at 00:34 by tolivac (greenville nc)        

I am with Norgeway-----Go VINTAGE if you can-instead of buying a washer from the big box junk store--go to your local appliance swap shop,used appliance place and pick a nice VINTAGE machine!!You can still get many years out of it.I am betting swap shops will do good in the future when folks tire of their "new" machines that don't work!

Post# 980688 , Reply# 56   1/31/2018 at 06:37 by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

joeypete's profile picture
New machines work fine, longevity however is another story. But you can get decent washers cheap these days.

Post# 980752 , Reply# 57   1/31/2018 at 14:08 by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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#53 is opinion, not fact.

Fact is that millions of people who bought new machines in the past 5 years are NOT walking around with skid marks and body stank.

Post# 980800 , Reply# 58   1/31/2018 at 22:36 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
Ok I'll ask: how do you know that? There are no shortage of complaints, even this site has them:

Post# 980875 , Reply# 59   2/1/2018 at 16:37 by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        

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If modern FL washers are so awful, why is it that many people (and most all Europeans) are happy with them?

Try to drive a manual transmission car the same way you'd operate an Automatic sometime and see how that goes Then go on the Internet and complain how bad manual transmissions are.

Most of the reason that modern frontloaders are not liked is because people are unwilling to learn, adjust and adapt to something new. People today are real quick to find fault with everything other then themselves.

Post# 980881 , Reply# 60   2/1/2018 at 17:31 by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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Because if every modern washing machine sold in the last 5 years were faulty, and not acting like a "washing machine" there would be outright revolt in the streets and in media.
I know there's lots of negative complaints online, but there are also slews of positive reviews online as well, with modern machines.

So which is it?

A sales rep from WP told me a few years ago in Home Depot that their complaints/repairs hover around 18% for Maytag and WP, and about 15% or KA.

Yeah, that's a lot of people when you sell millions of machines a year.
But it's not ALLLLLLL of them like so many here keep saying.
If ALL modern machines were terrible, then WP, GE, Elux, even LG and Samsung would be taking returns and losing millions of dollars a year.
But they are not.

I'm a WP stockholder, and their stock has been struggling.
But it's struggling because of high raw material costs mainly.
Their inventory numbers and warranty claims are not high enough culprits to be reported on in the quarterly meetings.
In fact, their sales are doing pretty well.

Now if folks on here want to claim to their heart's content that they dislike modern machines, they hate them, they think their styling sucks, their durability is not the same, their washing characteristics are "not what you believe in."
Sure, all valid opinions.
But it's just not fact, with tested evidence, that ALL modern machines are not capable of washing clothes., Cnet, Consumer Reports all conduct soil tests and fabric damage tests on all these modern machines.
And to varying degrees, all of them get stains out, to a satisfactory percentage. Some more than others. But never 0% stain removal.
Not any better or worse than machines from 20 years ago.
When you have modern TL or FL machines removing 50% of blood, or 60% of wine or 40% of grass stains, on the Normal cycle, like this test here:

It means the machine is working to pretty satisfactory degree.

I'll just add some anecdotal evidence from personal experience.
My parents have had a 1982 Maytag washer all the way up till this past thanksgiving. It gave up the ghost.
They replaced it with a modern TL Maytag 765. It washes all their clothes as well as, or better, than the old Maytag.
I have a Maxima FL from 2015. It washes just as well, often better, than my parents' old Maytag. It also washes as well, or better, and GENTLER than every old TL GE or WP DD machine I've had in every apartment I've lived in.
And the coin op Speed Queens I've been saddled to use? Pfffff, don't hold a candle to my Maxima.
My aunts' have had a Neptune set, and now a modern LG set, and both were stellar washing performers.

Will any of these modern machines last 15 years, 20? 30?
Not a chance.
But as long as they are working from the factory as designed, they are all very good "washing" machines.
No matter how much that fact pisses off the nostalgics.

Post# 980938 , Reply# 61   2/2/2018 at 06:57 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Reply # 60

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Hi John, I agree with everything you wrote, except where you say there is no chance that these modern washers do not have a chance of lasting 15,20, or 30 years.


Having been in the appliance sales and service business for over 40 years I can only observe that new machines require far less repair and have far better materials and assembly quality control.


Then you factor in smaller families and many people having multiple homes and MILLIONS more washers, DWs Refrigerators and ranges out there you are going to see plenty of 30 YO appliances in the future that are working just fine and they will eventually be replaced because they are old not worn out.


This is what we are seeing already, almost 1/2 of the appliances we see on several of the larger dealers recycle piles every week still work just fine or have very minor easily fixed problems.


John L.

Post# 980971 , Reply# 62   2/2/2018 at 10:48 by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        

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From what I see the two biggest drivers in appliance longevity are:

1. People are reluctant to attempt repair. A 4 year old machine has a failure and the attitude is "it's old, time for a new one". The other foolish idea is that if one failure happens another is just around the corner so junk it. I had a friends father trash an immaculate high end 6 year old Lennox furnace because of a $800 installed inducer fan failure. The new furnace was almost $7000 installed. People and irrational fears are silly...

2. Many companies, especially Asian, discontinue service parts after an unreasonably short period of time. Makes service difficult if you can't gets parts. Frequent design change also wreaks part availability longevity, especially since Asian companies seem to need to design new parts for each product rather then using a similar part from prior designs. Modern manufacturing ease has kinda destroyed the old parts bin mentality.

Post# 980978 , Reply# 63   2/2/2018 at 11:41 by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        
Itís more the economics of it.

Back it the day washers cost thousands of dollars adjusted for inflation. Look up an old ad for a 70ís washer and punch that number in to an inflation calculator. If a 2k washer cost $300 to fix, Iíd bet the farm someone would opt to repair.

Fast forward, now a new washer can be had for $300 in today money. If I bought a washer for $300, I most certainly would not spend $200 fixing it.

Itís simply a matter of economics. It doesnít have much to do with parts, etc.

Post# 980980 , Reply# 64   2/2/2018 at 12:06 by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        

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Very few washers today sell for $300... In almost all cases on a fairly recent machine it is worth calling service for an estimate.

I'm funny, I would pay $200 to repair a $300 machine, because I am a repair always guy. I can't scrap something viable if it can be repaired. Of course since I generally fix anything that I own myself, it is usually darned inexpensive for me. And yet another reason why I would NEVER buy an extended warranty on anything I buy ever.

Post# 980982 , Reply# 65   2/2/2018 at 12:15 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
$300 New Washer ?

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I don't know of any washer you can actually buy and have delivered for this price and the average price of a delivered machine is well over $700 with some few models costing over twice that.


Our average  completed repair call on a washing machine was $183 last year and it is much easier for a customer to pick up the phone or Email us the details of a broken washer than to try to get a new machine delivered.

Post# 980984 , Reply# 66   2/2/2018 at 12:24 by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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Interesting John L.
I'll take your word for it, since you're definitely in the field; in peoples' homes. I'm not.
In regards to people tossing out machines that need "minor repairs" I tend to agree.
Heck, we did that with our 1982 Maytag.
It just needed new belts and a good scrubbing of the pulleys. was at the stage of really needing a deep cleaning, corrosion control and all new hoses.
To the point where my parents were nervous another more major breakdown was around the corner.
I imagine a lot of the modern machines you repair....or end up replacing, are just like that, albeit younger. And less extreme.
People are just more likely to replace their machine than go through $200 repair, and fear another break down is nigh.
(All numbers are for conversation-sake)

Being an engineer and data nerd, I'd love to see comparative data on warranty repairs and initial quality scores on machines from the 70s and 80s, compared to today......and I wonder what the comparisons would be.

Post# 980986 , Reply# 67   2/2/2018 at 12:30 by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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There are machines on sale for 300 dollars, or even less, on a fairly regular basis.
Really, they are.
They're kind of undesirable, but I guess that's their point.

^ On sale, $299 till 2-7.

During the recent Black Friday sales, there were a couple Amana and GE top loaders on sale for $250-$350 as well.

Right now there are now strong sales, so it looks like the average lowest price is hovering around $400.

Post# 980996 , Reply# 68   2/2/2018 at 13:08 by stricklybojack (San Diego, CA)        

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I sold the very cleaned up 35 year old DD machine to a woman whose old AmanaTag
bit the dust. $245 delivered, with hook up and haul away included.
She needed the machine for a limited time only because they were planning on selling the house, but she needed it RIGHT NOW. My ad was only a few hours old.
I see used dealers who charge that and far more for the machines they must get pretty much for free.
With the overhead of a showroom, truck and driver, back office personel, store personel, and repair guy i imagine they not becoming too rich. Although sometimes they make a bundle on ďpayment plansĒ that rape the unsophisicated consumer.

This post was last edited 02/02/2018 at 17:50
Post# 981015 , Reply# 69   2/2/2018 at 15:23 by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        

I have a bottom of the barrel washer that I sell for $350. With delivery itís $400 + tax. So in my state $432 delivered.

My average ticket for washer repair is $2-300. In fact, the only washer repair I do for less than $200 would be agitator dogs and even that is $180 ish. My price is a bit on the high side but Iím definitely cheaper than sears, ae, etc.

Post# 981030 , Reply# 70   2/2/2018 at 16:54 by chetlaham (United States)        

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Euro front loaders are vastly different then those in the US- and US front loaders are still better than HE toploaders.

As for unwilling to learn, ask those who have tried everything.

Post# 981045 , Reply# 71   2/2/2018 at 19:36 by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        
Euro front loaders are vastly different then those in the US

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please detail these 'vast' differences

Post# 981048 , Reply# 72   2/2/2018 at 20:10 by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        

Euro washers are definitely smaller

Post# 981058 , Reply# 73   2/2/2018 at 21:43 by speedqueen (Harrison Twp, Michigan)        

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They also have high output heaters and multiple hour cycle times.

Post# 981079 , Reply# 74   2/3/2018 at 03:19 by chetlaham (United States)        

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And detergents that work in stages as the water is heating up. Its not fair to say US front loaders or their detergents are the same.

Post# 981088 , Reply# 75   2/3/2018 at 07:13 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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You can do a 'profile wash' (water begins warm; gradually heats during a very long wash tumble) with US machines that have an internal heater and a Sanitize cycle. Did it all the time with my 2010 Frigidaire and 2015 Maytag Maxima. is my understanding that some current washers don't heat to 145-150 for their sanitize cycle.

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