Thread Number: 74419
/ Tag: Detergents and Additives
Bold laundry detergent?!! |
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Post# 982190 , Reply# 1   2/10/2018 at 17:46 (2,238 days old) by RP2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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What type of washer are you using with this stuff? I haven't been able to use any P&G powders since they changed their HE formula to "for both" types of machines because they produce way too much suds.
I see on the Bold box that it has just the HE logo without images or copy stating it's for both types of machines, so may give this a try in my front loader if I find it at my local Big Lots. Since instructions are in both English and French, this seems to be Canadian packaging. |
Post# 982199 , Reply# 2   2/10/2018 at 18:08 (2,238 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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Welcome Steve....
interesting.....we have a new Ollie's opening up here in town, I will have to be on the lookout for that.... I expected it to be a plain detergent, but it does contain enzymes, so may turn out to be a decent detergent.... but am puzzled by the dosage for an HE load.....I would have expected more for a standard TLer.... keep us posted to how you make out..... |
Post# 982218 , Reply# 5   2/10/2018 at 20:54 (2,238 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)   |   | |
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Note that it says "imported for" P&G, Toronto, which = not made in Canada (otherwise it wouldn't need to be imported).
It says "distributed by" P&G, Cincinnati, which along with the French instructions means this box was intended to be sold in both the U.S. and Canada. If it was of non-US origin, it should have been labeled Made in [Wherever] under US law. I suspect it was made in the US to be distributed through dollar stores and "closeout" type places. For years, I've seen Era liquid at Big Lots when nobody else has it. This is probably some similar arrangement. They're squeezing some bucks out of their dead brands. |
Post# 982230 , Reply# 6   2/10/2018 at 23:50 (2,238 days old) by RP2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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John, the scenario you describe sounds fairly accurate to me, but I'm still curious about why a 2017 box doesn't have the "for both" graphics on it. I may have to gamble on a box. I can always use it in my old Maytag if it's too sudsy for my Affinity.
Steve, that washer you have is one of the best American front loaders, and it was produced before the water restrictions became ridiculous. It may not be the largest capacity, but those machines seem to run forever.
I would certainly not use a full scoop with that machine, and maybe not even with an old school top loader unless I was washing a seriously filthy load. The size of that scoop is all about P&G wanting to sell more detergent. |
Post# 982251 , Reply# 8   2/11/2018 at 03:11 (2,238 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)   |   | |
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In the first picture it reads "Do no induce vomiting"
Is this proper English ? Then it goes on "This package contains 63 medium loads, on average, based on weight as measured to bar 1 on scoop" But picture #2 shows a level 2 scoop for a medium load ? No "for both" graphics ? I also find it hard to believe that there are no nonionic surfactants listed in a current enzyme containing P&G detergent and their help line not knowing the product ? I wonder if this might be a fake. Plagiarism is not only restricted to high fashion items. |
Post# 982255 , Reply# 9   2/11/2018 at 04:32 (2,237 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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THAT is the best of the best series of washer they built....keep note of that control panel...
first generation machines had a linkage setup from the timer dial, that would wear over time, and not dispense as needed....this model has solenoid activated dispensers... some models spun at medium, and boosted to high speed for 1 minute at the end....this one spins full speed the whole way through.... takes a lot to kill one of these.....even if it eventually requires new bearings/seals....inexpensive enough, and quick to repair... and note, these never required a 'clean washer' cycle.... always favored the Kenmore version of these, especially the dryer offering a stainless drum as well... next time your near Camden, visit the Habitat ReStore in Pennsauken on Rt130, and a huge Dollar Discount store out front, they carry a variety of detergents....plus there are all sorts of thrift stores along 130 from Burlington on down....you should join us for a thrifting run sometime... |
Post# 982259 , Reply# 11   2/11/2018 at 06:12 (2,237 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)   |   | |
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@MrBoilwash: Sorry, I misread your post (my brain added a 't' in, where there wasn't one)! Regarding the lack of ingredient info on the Canadian site: Perhaps they're just too slow to get their site updated. |
Post# 982260 , Reply# 12   2/11/2018 at 06:14 (2,237 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)   |   | |
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Post# 982261 , Reply# 13   2/11/2018 at 06:16 (2,237 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)   |   | |
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Post# 982262 , Reply# 14   2/11/2018 at 06:21 (2,237 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)   |   | |
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The photos in the original post, also show 'colour' as spelt the American way, and the 'he' logo. UK products don't have those. |
Post# 982263 , Reply# 15   2/11/2018 at 06:23 (2,237 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)   |   | |
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Serves me right for 'jumping the gun'! Haha |
Post# 982264 , Reply# 16   2/11/2018 at 06:29 (2,237 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)   |   | |
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No... somebody definitely DID leave out the 't' on the packaging. Otherwise it is bad grammar. Perhaps it's been translated from French badly, or they've simply missed out the 't' in 'not'. :) |
Post# 982276 , Reply# 18   2/11/2018 at 09:41 (2,237 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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One: This variety of Bold was never sold in North American market when P&G still produced. Last incarnations were Bold "2in1" and a ultra compact powder.
hpd.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/househol... Thus we can assume this is a "lower shelf" or whatever import from P&G for French Canada/North American market. Two, it is obvious from the grammar package directions were translated into English (and likely via a computer and not a native American English speak IMHO), from French. At least in French there isn't a single adjective negation/not. You've "ne pas", and a few others. Ne provoque pas de vomissement is "do not induce vomiting", so you can see, well there you are. Three, P&G customer service likely wouldn't know this variation of Bold no more than they would any of the other products sold only in UK or Europe; why should they? P&G customer service likely does not know much about Tide, so (again) there you are. Years ago now there was a series of discount shops in New York City called Nationwide Discount. At their Broadway store here in Manhattan back in the day would find all sorts of detergents and products that hadn't seen elsewhere. Plenty of products from P&G, Unilever and so forth in French which one assumes means they came from "up north". Four, Lack of non-ionic surfactants per se isn't a bad thing. Generally anionic surfactants are highly frothing, but that can be compensated for by foam control agents. There is also the fact this Bold obviously isn't a TOL detergent offering from P&G like Ariel or Tide. Thus likely does not have an advanced cocktail of ingredients. Going by that scoop this detergent also seems not to be "compact" either. So again mayhaps P&G isn't putting all their cutting edge technology into that product. Bold in UK/Europe for sometime now has been more about scent than performance IMHO. Going by that scoop this detergent also seems not to be "compact" either. |
Post# 982289 , Reply# 19   2/11/2018 at 10:16 (2,237 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA)   |   | |
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I had to laugh---Dawn dishwashing liquid was mis-labeled for many years with an incorrect spelling. The pink (hand care) variety had Protease (I guess it helped with keeping hands smooth, except it was spelled "Protese" for a long time in the last couple years (it's been fixed since). This is a weird one; you almost could see it being counterfeit if P&G toll-free didn't know any thing about it. ISTR that Bold was available recently at Lowe's lumber--it was the old US formula with softening action, though.
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Post# 982290 , Reply# 20   2/11/2018 at 10:25 (2,237 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Pipe: groceries.morrisons.com/webshop/...
www.ocado.com/webshop/pro... www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/pr... To one's eye the graphics are same..... From a marketing background point of view it would seem to throw people off P&G may have come up with a new name (not unheard of for that lot) for same product that was selling elsewhere. This also explains why cannot lay hands upon nor otherwise find any information regarding "Tropical Orchard". |
Post# 982291 , Reply# 21   2/11/2018 at 10:28 (2,237 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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yeah, that's the one.....
theres also a huge indoor flea market on 130N in Edgewater Park.....their only open Fri/Sat/Sun I believe......you can find some great buys there on all sorts of stuff...especially the food market at each end, and we always stops at Lisa's for lunch... we'll stay in contact if you want to join us for a romp around Jersey hitting all these thrift stores....you never know what your going to find...we usually meet in Cinnaminson and car pool from there... because the demographics of the area, in Camden, Forman Mills is way cheaper on pricing than their other locations... you will gather a lot more from this site if you become an upgraded member, minimal cost for all you get out of it.... |
Post# 982292 , Reply# 22   2/11/2018 at 10:28 (2,237 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Apparently Bold Plus ultra powder detergent is sill being made/sold in USA.
hpd.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/househol... Does not seem to have a very wide distribution however. www.amazon.com/Ultra-Comp... |
Post# 982293 , Reply# 23   2/11/2018 at 10:30 (2,237 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)   |   | |
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Agreed, they have previous form. They had a variant of Fairy Dishwasher pods (Lemon), labelled as 'Citrus Groove'! It should have been 'Citrus Grove'. |
Post# 982324 , Reply# 25   2/11/2018 at 14:53 (2,237 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)   |   | |
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Post# 982418 , Reply# 29   2/11/2018 at 23:28 (2,237 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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Post# 982670 , Reply# 31   2/13/2018 at 14:59 (2,235 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)   |   | |
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Could it be meant for the Canadian market only? Weird indeed. |
Post# 982678 , Reply# 32   2/13/2018 at 16:15 (2,235 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)   |   | |
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This is the last Bold available in the USA, the barcode is slightly different because it is a diferent article.
Maybe it could be that your detergent is made in the USA but only for the Canadian market...
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Post# 982679 , Reply# 33   2/13/2018 at 16:16 (2,235 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)   |   | |
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Post# 982706 , Reply# 35   2/13/2018 at 21:23 (2,235 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Product obviously is not made in North America but somewhere else and imported to Canada.
No one in their right mind would "bootleg" a P&G product. They've scores of well paid attorneys all over the globe that would bring so much legal action against an offender that their grand-children would need lawyers. Fact that this particular version of Bold shares at least a very similar package design as a version sold in UK means wherever it comes from it is likely a shared source. How much information telephone customer service agents can access regarding things is often controlled, this even for companies with worldwide sales networks. My AEG people in Canada basically can only access information regarding models sold in North America to a certain point. Anything else such as older models and or things not sold at all on this side of pond results in contacting their main offices overseas. For years now P&G packaging for various household products including laundry have been both in English and French. One assumes this was done to cut down packaging, marketing and other costs. There are also products we down south cannot get but are sold in Canada (Tide Coldwater free/clear comes to mind). If you examine P&G's "Bold" website that poppy or whatever flower and the orangeish color scheme are featured many times. www.supersavvyme.co.uk/ta... |
Post# 982707 , Reply# 36   2/13/2018 at 21:28 (2,235 days old) by speedqueen (Metro-Detroit)   |   | |
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Post# 982718 , Reply# 39   2/13/2018 at 23:51 (2,235 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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Unless Big Lots has completely abandoned their previous business model, a lot of what they carry is close-out merchandise. If anything, finding Bold in their stores is more likely an indication of a failed marketing scheme rather than a test marketing endeavor. Big Lots is basically a poor man's stripped down Walmart; sort of a murky eddy outside of the mainstream. Not exactly a targeted demographic.
I buzzed over to my nearest Big Lots and found this Bold there today so I got a box. It's not bargain priced IMO, at around $8.50 per box (another reason to suspect it's not a promotional campaign), but it's still reasonable, and I'll buy more if it doesn't suds up too much. I've only washed a fleece sheet with it so far, and suds weren't out of control (I'm using a smaller scoop from some other P&G powder that dates back to the original HE forumula). The real test will be a load of whites, which I should be doing before the week is out.
Thanks for alerting us to this, Steve. I sure hope this means I can go back to powder, at least for as long as this stuff is available.
This post was last edited 02/14/2018 at 00:33 |
Post# 982719 , Reply# 40   2/13/2018 at 23:53 (2,235 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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At least to USA after having shed that brand and many others just recently in a downsizing.
Besides as noted Gain is P&G's current *fragrance* laundry product line, with some spill over into Tide (Tide with Downy and so forth). We know from the packaging the stuff was meant for North American market, as "HE" does not exist in Europe. For places like Middle East where both top and front loaders are common, P&G, Henkel etc.. simply just use pictures of both types of machines (as on my boxes of Saudi Arabian Persil). Probably easiest way to sort this out is getting ahold of the MSDS information which must exist somewhere. I've searched both US and UK P&G/Bold websites and there is no mention of anything "Tropical Orchard". That being said the trademark for "Tropical Orchard" is only about one year old and is registered to P&G www.trademarkia.com/tropi... Interestingly same person responsible for the above trademark also did "Bold" for P&G which was registered at same time. www.trademarkia.com/corre... |
Post# 982722 , Reply# 41   2/14/2018 at 00:19 (2,235 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)   |   | |
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For proof the P&G representatives are lying about them not doing private labels, consider this from the New York Times about the spinoff of Oxydol.
"Under the deal, Procter & Gamble, arguably the American consumer products company with the greatest influence among retailers, will still take care of the ordering, shipping and billing systems used for Oxydol, which will continue to be made at a P.& G. plant. It also has an undisclosed minority stake in the company. Redox, based in the Cincinnati suburb of West Chester, Ohio, will be making the strategic decisions." CLICK HERE TO GO TO Supersuds's LINK |
Post# 982726 , Reply# 42   2/14/2018 at 00:37 (2,235 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)   |   | |
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The previous version of Bold, illustrated in the picture by Ingemar (gorenje), was available in second tier retailers like Family Dollar and Lowes. It filled their need for a recognizable brand name at a somewhat lower price point than Tide or Gain. I think the same thing is going on here.
While nobody respects the acumen of Launderess more than I do, I still tend to think this product is more likely domestic than not. Remember P&G tried to market a US version of Mexican Ariel a few years ago, rather than import the real thing. For a company with their resources, it would be child's play to tweak a detergent and scent formula, copy some already-existing Euro graphics, and presto, a new low end product -- that would seem to be cheaper for them than shipping a low value product all the across the ocean. Plus there'd be less chance of the product deteriorating in shipment. Just a thought. |
Post# 982729 , Reply# 43   2/14/2018 at 00:49 (2,235 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Pipe: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CR_Brands...
Also: www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/T... When P&G first spun off Oxydol to that group of in house individuals who formed Redox the product was basically same. P&G was *NEVER* *EVER* going to give an outside company no matter how well connected access to their patents including the activated bleaching system which made Oxydol famous. Remember Oxydol made it's mark after losing the battle as a soap power to Tide, by re-emerging later as a detergent with (oxygen) bleach. That later became an activated bleaching system based upon P&G's NBOS oxygen bleach activation systems. Sadly for Oxydol P&G transferred that system to Tide (which became Tide with Bleach) and then it was off to the races. P&G continued to improve and refine their activated bleaching system but kept those to their TOL product; Tide. With that housewives no longer needed Oxydol and sales plummeted. Indeed it has only been rather recently that P&G has moved *some* of their activated bleaching systems to Gain. Of course they long have used it with Cascade automatic dishwasher detergent. This is all easily sourced by looking up patent numbers on packets. The other product sold off at that time was Biz, which went from being originally an enzyme presoak to an activated oxygen bleach (with enzymes), again courtesy of P&G's research and patents. However same thing happened as with Oxydol; Tide with Bleach replaced need for a separate product so Biz sales plummeted. Neither Biz nor Oxydol sold today have anything to do with P&G. www.prnewswire.com/news-r... |
Post# 982746 , Reply# 44   2/14/2018 at 06:08 (2,234 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA)   |   | |
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Yeah, I think you're point is well taken--essentially the product manager for Oxydol made the case to spin it off to him, with P&G continuing manufacture and s/he just taking over marketing. They did the opposite thing with their bar soaps--spun off the Ivorydale facility where they made it to a private label packer and had them continue to produce Ivory etc. Redox (if it even exists) was named for the chemistry behind the activated bleaching, actually! By now they just slap their name on something one of the private labelers (Sun? Korex?) puts together.
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Post# 982748 , Reply# 46   2/14/2018 at 06:15 (2,234 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA)   |   | |
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You may well be on to something there...all the soapers have been struggling with their strategies as they're increasingly unable to raise price (P&G at the forefront)...this iteration of Bold, though, seems indistinguishable in USP (unique selling point) than Gain in the US; and so not a terribly valid proof-point of product appeal. We shall see--though isn't an MSDS declaration required for interstate commerce?
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Post# 982753 , Reply# 48   2/14/2018 at 07:28 (2,234 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Am not arguing, well not much. *LOL*
What throws one is that the packet clearly states this product is imported..... Now while that could mean it came from down south (United States), just cannot see why or how P&G would ramp up production on just the one product to send it to Canada. Especially if one's other hunch is correct in that some version of this "Tropical Orchard" or whatever is being sold elsewhere in the world. Suppose only way to settle this is for someone with enough brass to call P&G corporate and not being fobbed off to a minor functionary, speak with someone who does know the deal. When P&G was called out (and IIRC sued) because phosphate versions of their Mexican detergent were making it onto USA shelves they soon enough put a stop to things. This after saying at first there was little they could do because stores were getting the stuff second or third hand from dealers. |
Post# 982774 , Reply# 50   2/14/2018 at 10:52 (2,234 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)   |   | |
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"We certainly appreciate you reaching out to us..." I detest that kind of patronising 'corporate speak'! What the hell is wrong with using "contacting us"? |
Post# 982775 , Reply# 51   2/14/2018 at 11:19 (2,234 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Or whatever has long been out of favor it seems, at least on this side of the pond. Everyone "reaches out" these days.
You hear it on the news (we reached out to *** for a comment...." At work "reach out to "X" at corporate and see what he knows... And so it goes.. Of course not everyone is on board or happy, but there you are then. www.fastcompany.com/30169... |
Post# 982776 , Reply# 52   2/14/2018 at 11:28 (2,234 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)   |   | |
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...makes me want to reach out and strangle 'em! |
Post# 982780 , Reply# 53   2/14/2018 at 13:43 (2,234 days old) by nickuk (chelmsford UK)   |   | |
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and look at this - new on the shelves in Tesco ........ Fairy non bio stain remover powder BUT look at the manufacturer - `Star brands of Redditch'!! (Who??? !) CLICK HERE TO GO TO nickuk's LINK |
Post# 982787 , Reply# 55   2/14/2018 at 14:28 (2,234 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)   |   | |
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Aha! Star Brands - who make 'Star Drops' cleaner! |
Post# 982816 , Reply# 60   2/14/2018 at 18:05 (2,234 days old) by ge1970 (Birmingham Alabama)   |   | |
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I bought this Bold Tropical Orchard at my local Big Lots about two months ago. I find it almost indistinguishable from Gain Island Fresh power. Same scent, same color and cleans about the same. |
Post# 982820 , Reply# 61   2/14/2018 at 18:29 (2,234 days old) by Steve_B79 (Princeton Junction)   |   | |
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@ge1970... i’m wondering if it might be repackaged Gain? |
Post# 982858 , Reply# 63   2/14/2018 at 20:25 (2,234 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Ivorydale is but a shell of its former self: www.cincinnati.com/story/...
While we're on the subject: www.bizjournals.com/cinci... |
Post# 982876 , Reply# 65   2/14/2018 at 23:15 (2,234 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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1994 might as well be 1904 in ways that companies have changed since.
Nearly all large consumer enterprises have some version of outsourcing of customer service today. Banks, credit cards, consumer goods, etc.... Cannot tell you the last time have reached say a customer service rep from Amex that wasn't in India or some east Asian country. This, and or thanks to technology everything is routed to one or a few local call centers, or the quickly growing ranks of reps that work from home. The latter can be employed directly by the company or again from an outsourced agency. |
Post# 982882 , Reply# 66   2/15/2018 at 01:12 (2,234 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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I just put a medium size load of whites in the Affinity with about half of a large scoop (pictured above) of this Bold.
I'm pleased to report low suds levels like I haven't seen for years from a powder! That amount of Gain or Tide powder "for both" would have nearly obscured the window with suds. I'm going to get more of this stuff, as I prefer powder to liquids. The scent is pleasant enough.
I have to wonder if this is old or otherwise leftover stuff from before the "for both" formula, or if P&G actually got enough complaints about oversudsing that they made some changes. The latter scenario strikes me as unlikely, so I'm going to stock up while this Bold is still available. |
Post# 982885 , Reply# 67   2/15/2018 at 03:17 (2,234 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)   |   | |
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I still think the Bold above is a detergent made in USA and imported in Canada.
Nothing to do with the UK Bold (or Dash in France, Bolt in Italy, Lenor detergent in Germany etc. etc.) But it's easy to verify. Just compare the two pictures of the UK Bold powder and your Bold. Have someone of you guys from UK an opened box of Bold? |
Post# 982887 , Reply# 68   2/15/2018 at 03:22 (2,234 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)   |   | |
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The Italian Ace detergent and bleach products are also no longer P&G products.
They are Fater products. ace.info/it/prodotti... |
Post# 982889 , Reply# 69   2/15/2018 at 03:43 (2,234 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)   |   | |
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Also Gama, another recognisable detergent brand of P&G France (once a brand of Colgate Palmolive, wich was acquired by P&G in 2003) is no longer a P&G brand.
Now is Blue Sun www.bluesuncb.com/en/what-we-do/w... And maybe Ariel detergent will be one day another brand to become part of another owner (in some parts of Europe). Now Blue Sun got a licence and manufactures it, but it seems that one day it will become A+ .... www.bluesuncb.com/en/whereabouts... |
Post# 982895 , Reply# 70   2/15/2018 at 06:19 (2,233 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA)   |   | |
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Post# 982932 , Reply# 74   2/15/2018 at 14:32 (2,233 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)   |   | |
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Could all this weirdness at P&G Europe, be to do with circumventing some kind of EU Tax laws? Maybe P&G are tying up some loose ends before Doomsday happens. |
Post# 982954 , Reply# 76   2/15/2018 at 18:14 (2,233 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)   |   | |
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@ dixan
Thank you. Very interesting information this about Dash and Bonux brands. But this refers only for Dash in Germany, Austria and Switzerland ("Demnach hat die Dalli-Gruppe für „Dash“ die Markenrechte für Deutschland, Österreich und die Schweiz erworben") In Italy, Belgium and France Dash will remains P&G. @ Steve Dalli-Werke is an old German factory with a great tradition. It is not a simple private label. Their products are very good. The majority of Miele detergents mentioned also by James (iej) are made by Dalli-Werke. If you will have the opportunity to try the Italian Dash you will see for yourself it is a very good detergent, but I'm sure the Dash made by Dalli-Werke will be also a very good product. Definitively not just a simple private label. |
Post# 982955 , Reply# 77   2/15/2018 at 18:31 (2,233 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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I'm very pleased with the results from the load of whites I referenced above. Stain removal was excellent and suds were low, just like they used to be with all HE powders.
I hope they keep making this stuff and that they don't turn it into a moving target by periodically packaging it under different retired P&G brand names. |
Post# 982975 , Reply# 80   2/15/2018 at 22:43 (2,233 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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That's my story and am sticking to it! *LOL*
I've said to much, so I'll say no more. |
Post# 982983 , Reply# 82   2/16/2018 at 05:07 (2,232 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)   |   | |
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P&G`s Dash (same as UK Daz ?) sold in Germany has been a BOL detergent for a long time that doesn`t clean anything. The brand is apparently only still alive because it once had a good reputation in the past and because it still has a pleasant smell. High quality scent oils are expensive and that seems to be the part where store brand manufacturers save expenses.
Looks like most consumers (and consumer magazines) figured out that store brands made by McBride and in particular Dalli otherwise outperform the multinational`s second tier rubbish. It`s not a new thing that well known brands get sold if they don`t generate enough profit anymore. Unilever`s laundry branch in the USA, Colgate`s in Australia, in Germany we already have Rei (UK Dreft ?) and Sanso both former P&G brands as well as Unilever`s Sunil and Kuschelweich (UK Comfort ?) gone to Fit GmbH. The products I think have all been reformulated and very little to do with the "originals" except for big box (unconcentrated) Sunil powders which are still manufactured under licence of Unilever according to Wikipedia. Will be interesting to see what Dalli is making out of Dash in the future. I could imagine they make it a decent performing detergent again but will probably ruin the scent. I also never understood why they use inferior formulars for their own Dalli branded line compared to the remarkable high quality of Dalli made store brands. But then Germans and maybe other Europeans as well seem to have higher expectations in Aldi or Lidl products than in small insignificant national brands. |
Post# 983039 , Reply# 87   2/16/2018 at 16:22 (2,232 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)   |   | |
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Post# 983120 , Reply# 91   2/17/2018 at 08:55 (2,231 days old) by liamy1 (-)   |   | |
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Just seen your post Rolls. Will change that to they *should never |
Post# 983358 , Reply# 93   2/19/2018 at 08:34 (2,229 days old) by Steve_B79 (Princeton Junction)   |   | |
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I’m thinking that P&G’s pods are pretty much all the same, save for the fragrance. I love the scent of Ariel pods; Tide, not as much. I’m curious as to the fragrance of Daz. The powder has a great scent... |
Post# 983373 , Reply# 95   2/19/2018 at 09:44 (2,229 days old) by liamy1 (-)   |   | |
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@Steveb, Forgot to say, if you were ever wanting to try Daz pods (or whatever) and you can’t get it on places like eBay/online, I can price check what it would cost to ship to you. Any excuse to go detergent shopping :) |
Post# 983617 , Reply# 96   2/20/2018 at 17:11 (2,228 days old) by steve_b79 (Princeton Junction)   |   | |
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That would be awesome!! Thank you!!! I know that Daz liquid is up there, among a few others, but I'd have to limit it...haha. |
Post# 983761 , Reply# 103   2/21/2018 at 19:16 (2,227 days old) by liamy1 (-)   |   | |
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Hope you get somewhere with P&G, doesn’t instill much faith if the maker doesn’t know nada about their products, |
Post# 983763 , Reply# 104   2/21/2018 at 19:25 (2,227 days old) by liamy1 (-)   |   | |
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We have powder tablets too (mainly off brands now though), so including the Powergems, that’s 6 formats of detergent. We’ll see if the Powergems last. |
Post# 983770 , Reply# 105   2/21/2018 at 21:37 (2,227 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Answer supplied by P&G customer service is a reasonable one; if OP truly is dying to know more information about this product reach out to Big Lots and find out who is the importer. Big Lots or any other store selling this "Tropical Orchard" version of Bold obviously at this point probably know more than P&G customer service for USA.
Proctor and Gamble who normally spare no expense and or miss an opportunity to advertise or market a new product has nothing out there on this version of Bold. That alone should tell you something. At this point (no offence meant) am guessing person or persons at that P&G customer service department have a bad name for those responsible for putting their information on those packets of Bold. Such persons can only supply information released to them; and it is quite apparent by now P&G either did not or will not be supplying. Whoever purchased this detergent for Big Lots or whatever store must have a contact; that should be the focus of your attention IMHO. In many companies today, especially large multi-national conglomerates information is provided and or can be accessed on a NTKB (Need To Know Basis). If one is in a division or department that has nothing to do with *something* often one cannot even access information on computer. That and or am blocked/locked out. Back in the old days one could just make a telephone call to a friend or someone in another department and try to pick up the scent. That chain today has largely been broken by outsourcing, international deals/divisions and so forth. However it the backstory on this product truly is keeping you up at night; you'll likely have to spend some of your own money and call P&G corporate headquarters and start working up a chain. This Bold detergent didn't just materialize out of thin air; and no one in their right mind would attempt to "bootleg" and or otherwise infringe on P&G trademarks. Have given links above to the trademark information; contact that company and see if they will give client information. |
Post# 983772 , Reply# 106   2/21/2018 at 22:12 (2,227 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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It might just very well be this Bold "Tropical Orchard" is some type of grey goods not unlike the various Asian varieties of Tide you see on eBay and elsewhere.
www.click2houston.com/news/is-di... *If* P&G had a surplus of say that Bold powder lying about spare in UK or elsewhere, it wouldn't cost much to create a slightly altered package based upon original along with other minor changes, fill it with product then ship it abroad. Fact that only discount and not high end or even other normal stores are selling this Bold tells one at least it isn't being marketed widely. But rather to a targeted distribution chain. P&G already *dumps* old and or discontinued at certain warehouse/discount chains like Nationwide Warehouse. That is one outlet for "old stock" that is removed from store shelves but you never see say thrown away in rubbish. When P&G changed formulas for Cascade to remove phosphates a good amount of old store stock, stuff lying about in warehouses/distribution chains and so forth was sent to such discount type stores. |
Post# 983795 , Reply# 107   2/22/2018 at 03:04 (2,227 days old) by liamy1 (-)   |   | |
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I saw this last year where P&G was trying to say those same 5gal buckets were fake :; Think it’s just to be expected that you’ll never get a straight answer from P&G. |
Post# 983801 , Reply# 108   2/22/2018 at 04:11 (2,227 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)   |   | |
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I think if it really was a counterfeit P&G would have responded differently, so we can rule that one out, but still it was a possible option out of many others.
As to "no one in their right mind would attempt to "bootleg" and or otherwise infringe on P&G trademarks" I wouldn`t say so. Apparently some Asian countries seem to have a very relaxed perception of western patents and copyrights. For example perfectly faked Viagra has been found in European pharmacies. Wouldn`t you think no one in their right mind would attempt to infringe on Pfizer trademarks ? Next thing we can pretty much rule out would be the UK as a country of origin. Europeans simply wouldn`t go so low to produce a heavy duty detergent that lacks of nonionic surfactants. They are important for keeping synthetic fibers immaculate. On the other hand you never know what they have in mind if a product is made for export only. What I don`t understand at all is how can it be a P&G product being sold in the USA and P&G headquarter not knowing anything about it. What if someone suffers a serious allergic reaction from the product ? They couldn`t seriously send you to Biglots, could they ? Shouldn`t at least poison control centers, the manufacturer and anyone else have access to MSDSs in every country where a product is possibly sold ? |
Post# 983803 , Reply# 109   2/22/2018 at 04:30 (2,227 days old) by liberatordeluxe (UK)   |   | |
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I used to like the fragrance of Bold2in1 in the 1990s. Smelt soapy but not over powering like some of the current ghastly perfumes. |
Post# 983805 , Reply# 110   2/22/2018 at 05:32 (2,226 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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No one ever said P&G officially didn't know about this stuff; that was the response given by customer service/call center. What we also don't know is how far up the food chain the OP's request for information went before being kicked back.
For all we know the "team" may have gone no further than their own immediate superior who either couldn't find anything in system (or bits he/she has access to). This and or it is a bit of "why does this person want this information? tell him we don't know anything else and to push off...."*LOL* Shall say it again, and mean it; obviously reaching out to "Tide customer service" is not going to produce results. P&G corporate headquarters is where people ought to go. Someone authorized creation of trademark for that "Bold" and the "Tropical Orchard" for a start. |
Post# 983843 , Reply# 113   2/22/2018 at 11:39 (2,226 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)   |   | |
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I'm dying to find out what P&G's reply will be. Someone, somewhere within P&G's structure must know something about it. |
Post# 983883 , Reply# 115   2/22/2018 at 17:51 (2,226 days old) by liamy1 (-)   |   | |
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Yes, P&G do sell pails of detergent to professional customers (see link). If memory serves, there’s a few videos on YT regarding it. CLICK HERE TO GO TO liamy1's LINK |
Post# 983886 , Reply# 116   2/22/2018 at 17:57 (2,226 days old) by liamy1 (-)   |   | |
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A few below (more on there if anyone interested) |
Post# 984115 , Reply# 119   2/24/2018 at 07:48 (2,224 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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P&G has been selling off, and or shutting down brands for about ten years (give or take), not always because of performance.
Proctor and Gamble like nearly every other major company in USA or world has gone "lean", Sigma-Six or whatever the current slimming down corporate craze happens to be. For P&G, Unilever, and the rest many of their household, personal care and other product lines are mature markets. Worse consumers have gotten wise to "new and improved" and all the other tricks of trade that are meant to entice them into buying this or that. P&G's CEO has been under pressure since arrival to get stock price up, and show Wall Street he means business. When you get down to it P&G has two top selling detergents; Tide and Gain. Together those brands have a vast and bewildering array of variants. The technology (and patents) that gave us Bold 2in1 were improved and voila! You have Tide with a Touch of Donwy, or Ariel with a Touch of Lenor. Thus P&G really didn't need to have Bold Plus hanging about. Less so after Tide Simply Clean and Fresh took up the "low price/budget" end of the spectrum. That product also meant ERA could go as well, and it did. You may have noticed both P&G and Unilever are focusing on a handful of laundry product brands. However within each of those brands there is a wide range of products that are meant to address particular needs. In Europe Bold seems to be P&G's detergent for "scent"; here we have Gain for that niche. All this being said one has to wonder what truly is going on with Bold Plus: there seems to be tons of it out there on Amazon.com, eBay and elsewhere. It all cannot be old stock from several years ago. www.upcitemdb.com/upc/37000275121... |
Post# 984119 , Reply# 120   2/24/2018 at 07:53 (2,224 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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UPC/Bar Code beginning with 0037000 is usually a P&G product. Bold Ultra Plus began with same numbers:
www.upcitemdb.com/queryQUESTIONMA... No information is available for bar code shown on packet above; but it *is* registered in USA. www.upcitemdb.com/upc/03700051173... So again I say; if the bar code in part is one that is assigned or whatever to P&G it is very likely they are behind this mystery Bold "Tropical Orchard" detergent. Remember those UPC/Bar codes are on crates, packaging and or other materials associated with items. Scanning or entering into various systems including check-out counter at shops provides a wealth of information. Bar codes are also used for inventory (to keep track of sales for instance). Another thing: Someone upthread mentioned there wouldn't be a powder detergent in Europe without nonionic surfactants. This is not apparently true. The SDS for Bold "Professional" in Spring Fresh scent has an ingredient list almost identical to the product OP is investigating. All anionic surfactants without a mention of anything else in that category. That is of course unless P&G for some reason chose not to list, but is that even legal in EU?
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Post# 984132 , Reply# 121   2/24/2018 at 10:28 (2,224 days old) by steve_b79 (Princeton Junction)   |   | |
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P&G emailed me back - again. They think this product is from 2007, which makes no sense, with a 2017 copyright date on the package. I advised them as such. Let's see what happens. |
Post# 984134 , Reply# 122   2/24/2018 at 10:30 (2,224 days old) by steve_b79 (Princeton Junction)   |   | |
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You mention that Era was discontinued. Yet, it's still showing up on P&G's website, and I see it for sale at just about every supermarket and big box retailer that I visit. Did this happen recently? |
Post# 984140 , Reply# 123   2/24/2018 at 11:35 (2,224 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)   |   | |
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That screenshot of an MSDS is strange indeed.
I wonder why are anionic surfactants listed twice in a row but in different percentages ? Might be just a typo. It`s also strange there is no further information about what hazardous anionic surfactants they refer to. (e.g. Sodium Dodecylbenzenesulfonate) Or is it even possible that some nonionic surfactants are not considered hazardous so do not have to be listed in an MSDS ? I don`t know. However current UK professional Bold 2 in 1 still has the nonionics listed as less than 5% CLICK HERE TO GO TO mrboilwash's LINK |
Post# 984153 , Reply# 124   2/24/2018 at 14:09 (2,224 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)   |   | |
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As you said, the packaging says otherwise. There must be a right bunch of numpties working at Procter & Gamble. |
Post# 984165 , Reply# 125   2/24/2018 at 18:23 (2,224 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Post# 984166 , Reply# 126   2/24/2018 at 18:25 (2,224 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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