Thread Number: 74617  /  Tag: Detergents and Additives
Cascade Complete packs
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Post# 984172   2/24/2018 at 19:41 by StrongEnough78 (California)        

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Is anyone else using these have a problem with high amounts of suds? I ran a load through my dishwasher today and during the main wash cycle there was so much foam inside you couldn't hear any water spray. I've noticed on previous loads that the water spray wasnt as strong with all the foam, however this time It got so bad that water started to leak out from the bottom. It did this once before and I thought I had an actual leak but the last few times I ran it, nothing dripped out until today. I got these to replace the Finish liquid I was using as it did a horrible job and the packs do clean much better and believe it or not, by the last rinse cycle the water was crystal clear. What if anything could I add during the main wash to cut down the suds? I appreciate any recommendations offered :)

Post# 984173 , Reply# 1   2/24/2018 at 19:46 by appnut (TX)        

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I have a similar issue with the Platinum--no leaking, just foam induced water jets.  But everything is coming out as clean as usual. 

Post# 984179 , Reply# 2   2/24/2018 at 21:28 by IowaBear (Cedar Rapids, IA)        

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Seems to be a water quality issue.  Others here have reported excess foaming with the Platinum "action-pacs."  But my water is pretty hard and there isn't enough foaming to be a problem. 


They do clean the best of anything I've used since the phosphate ban.  Since I only run the dishwasher once or twice a week I do think they are worth the extra cost.

Post# 984181 , Reply# 3   2/24/2018 at 21:36 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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I tried a Platinum pack again recently (from a small package I bought last year).† Excess foaming.† Doesn't happen with Institutional/Boil Out powder.† My water is 9 to 11 grains hardness.

Post# 984183 , Reply# 4   2/24/2018 at 21:53 by jjsunshine (Northern California)        

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Yes! Especially with Cascade Platinum. It works excellent, but you would think I put Dawn liquid in the tub :) Makes me wonder if it gets completely rinsed or if there is residual detergent left on the dishes?

Post# 984193 , Reply# 5   2/24/2018 at 22:59 by StrongEnough78 (California)        

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Jim- You would think so but the water here is pretty hard. It's been a while since I checked the level but water spotted windows and cars are a regular thing here. But I do like how they clean. Just as good as old phosphated stuff.

JJSunshine- You've got that right. There was a thick blanket of suds at the bottom. But nonresidue left on my dishes at all. By the last rinse the water is crystal clear.

Dadoes- I'm wondering if there are other water softening agents in it. I didn't think to check.

Post# 984200 , Reply# 6   2/25/2018 at 00:09 by Mrsalvo (New Braunfels Texas)        

Haven't noticed any excessive suds with Complete, it just doesn't clean well here. Our water is very hard. So I used only the Platinum.
Recently tried Walgreens Nice packs and very impressed with the cleaning performance. Won't hestitate to use it again.

Post# 984218 , Reply# 7   2/25/2018 at 06:52 by nickuk (chelmsford UK)        
too much foam

Hi all

It's exactly the same in the UK - Fairy Platinum are way too sudsy. I feel a dishwasher needs almost no suds to be fully effective. Just wanted to make this comment to show you that it's not just local water conditions....they are just too sudsy!! However I agree it is a great detergent.


Post# 984221 , Reply# 8   2/25/2018 at 07:04 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Fairy Platinum

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In my experience is far too sudsy - and it caused a suds-lock in my Bosch. The wash action was very lethargic.

I get much better performance with Finish tablets of various kinds, and stores' own brands, Lidl's in particular.

Post# 984226 , Reply# 9   2/25/2018 at 07:46 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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Had the same Glenn said, Boil Out or other old fashioned chlorine based product doesn't do that.

Post# 984229 , Reply# 10   2/25/2018 at 08:03 by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

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Yes they are a lot more sudsy. I've had the worst of that from the Platinum pacs. If you are using it in an older machine in particular, you will get a ton of suds. They are really designed for newer machines that don't use as much water.

Post# 984236 , Reply# 11   2/25/2018 at 08:08 by washman (Butler, PA)        
Have not noticed any increased suds

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and no drop off in cleaning ability.  I use the 16X variety

Post# 984255 , Reply# 12   2/25/2018 at 08:42 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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JoeyPete:† Yes they are a lot more sudsy. ... If you are using it in an older machine in particular, you will get a ton of suds. They are really designed for newer machines that don't use as much water.
Just to say, my 14yo DD takes 0.8 gal per fill.

Seems that a fixed-dose pack with less water would cause more sudsing.† No?

How much water does a typical new-off-the-lot unit take nowadays?

Post# 984256 , Reply# 13   2/25/2018 at 08:48 by joeypete (Concord, NH)        

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Yeah good point Glenn...I guess they are sudsy regardless...maybe it's more the wash action in older machines (more vigorous) that makes suds more a problem?

The Frigidaire Gallery model that I had used very little water...probably at least half of what my Hobart KA uses.

Post# 984258 , Reply# 14   2/25/2018 at 09:00 by nickuk (chelmsford UK)        

Hi Rolls. I had regularly used the cheaper Finish ones (not Quantum - think they are just called `all in 1') but took a pack to work just for coffee cups a few months back because they started leaving the dishwasher and contents with a white coating. Moved to Quantum (when on offer!) and all was good. However, recently these have also had a slating on the Ocado reviews for the same reason and I notice the old `New and improved' logo on the packaging. It looks as though Finish are tweaking something across the brands and it ain't working.

For this reason I bought Fairy Platinum on the last shop but had forgotten about the hideous suds. I was actually wondering what the alarming vibrating noise was - worktop was all a tremble - remembered dishwasher was on - ear to door - ah yes......

I can't stand to hear a dishwasher choking when it should be merrily squirting away ;-)

Where to go from here??!! I don't go in LIDL (thanks for the recommendation Rolls) so may just go back to the old fashioned `unwrappable' Essential Waitrose. These were perfectly good from memory. I always use salt and rinse aid anyway.

Anyhow - not wishing to thread hijack - yes OP - Fairy / Cascade Platinum do over foam in my opinion, though I respectfully acknowledge the experience of those who have not had the same experience.

Post# 984266 , Reply# 15   2/25/2018 at 09:43 by IowaBear (Cedar Rapids, IA)        

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One possibility I thought of.  On my lower-end Whirlpool from a few years ago the detergent compartment doesn't seal well at all.  Not sure if this happened with age or if it was always like that.


When I place a pod that has separate liquid sections in the main compartment before starting the cycle I find that the heat and water leakage melt the pod and the liquid parts partially drain out into the pre-wash.


Now I usually just listen for the main wash to start and toss the pod in to avoid the problem.  I only run the dishwasher once a week on average so this isn't a big deal for me.


If there are foam suppressors are in the liquid part that is being lost too soon maybe that could be part of the problem.


I do wonder if the three separate sections of liquid attached to the powder are just marketing.  Obviously the candy-colors are but I wonder about the rest of it.  Is there a real need to have a three separate liquid compartments (or a need to have separate liquid and powder sections at all...?)

Post# 984268 , Reply# 16   2/25/2018 at 09:50 by nickuk (chelmsford UK)        


Your theory is good, but I rarely (if ever) use a prewash / rinse and still get the problem. Just letting you know so you are not worried it's something you or your d/w is doing wrong - just the nature of the product.

Post# 984274 , Reply# 17   2/25/2018 at 10:45 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
"white coating..."

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I've just read the Ocado reviews slating the Finish 'All-in-1'. Not good.

I got that powdery coating with Finish Powder. And then I read reviews about that being awful too.

Post# 984328 , Reply# 18   2/25/2018 at 18:22 by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        

They are far too sudsy. I have switched to Finish Quantum and have not looked back. They clean just as well as Cascade Powder with a bit of STPP.

Post# 984331 , Reply# 19   2/25/2018 at 18:57 by iej (Ireland)        
Same Problems wish P&G Fairy Platinum Capsules

I'm pretty sure Fairy Capsules here are an identical P&G product. They certainly look the aame and they are extremely foamy.

In my Miele dishwasher you can't hear the spray there's so much foam and I tried them in a Bosch elsewhere and it was the same or worse as you could hear the pump suds locking!!

I also noticed that with some of their scented versions the dishes actually taste of chemicals after a wash. This isn't something I've had with any other tablet brand.

I mostly either use Miele Tablets or Finish now and both are very, very good.

The Fairy (Cascade) does clean well but it doesn't rinse well and I'm not convinced that so much foam is very good for the machine, particularly when you consider they have in-line heaters that should be dull of water, not insulating foam!

Post# 984336 , Reply# 20   2/25/2018 at 19:38 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Spot on!

I agree about Fairy contaminating the crockery with scents - my parents complained about the smell of the detergent on cups. (Maybe P&G are using Febreze technology here too?)

Regarding the in-line heaters: too much foam could cause premature heater failure. This is important, as modern Bosch machines now have a combined pump and heater assembly, rather than separate components.

And as we know, too much foam can cause leaks and activate the flood defence mechanisms.

A detergent recipe for disaster.

Post# 984349 , Reply# 21   2/25/2018 at 21:11 by rp2813 (The Big Blue Bubble)        

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I can't put my finger on it.  Water is fairly hard here.  Our Miele gets run once or twice per week.  Three times over the past couple of months I've noticed sudsing issues.  I blamed it on some dishes in the sink having been exposed to regular hand or dish soap.  Now I'm not so sure, but because it's not a regular occurrence, I've been hesitant to blame it on the Cascade pods.

Post# 984352 , Reply# 22   2/25/2018 at 21:35 by nmassman44 (Boston North Shore Massachusetts)        

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So its not just me then with sudsing issues with Cascade Platinum pacs then. This evening I could hear my LG dishwasher cavatating during the wash cycle and I opened the door to find a good layer of suds over the bottom and the dishes covered in foam. I added more water, about a small pitcher full and the cavatating stopped but only for 5 mins. The load came out spotless as usual and dry. I do have a box of Cascade Complete powder that doesn't do that at all in this machine.

Post# 984354 , Reply# 23   2/25/2018 at 21:48 by IowaBear (Cedar Rapids, IA)        

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This is the foam level about half-way through a heated wash cycle (to 145) in my lower-end Whirlpool using one Platinum Pac.  Not much water, not much foam.  Dishes are always clean though.

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Post# 984391 , Reply# 24   2/26/2018 at 04:10 by StrongEnough78 (California)        

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On mine the entire bottom of the tub was covered. At least 2 inches thick if not more. Would adding some vinegar cut the suds?

Post# 984395 , Reply# 25   2/26/2018 at 07:15 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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I think part of the problem with Procter & Gamble dishwasher detergents, is that they are formulated in the wrong direction. They appear to be geared towards a full size dishwasher, with heavily soiled pots and pans, and hard water.

In other words, there's too much product per liqui-tab/pod, so heaven help us if the dishes are only lightly soiled, or a partial load, or soft water - or all of these!

Unlike some compressed tablets, pods cannot be broken in half.

P&G would actually get more respect (from me at any rate) if they decreased the size of the pods, so that they could work properly in smaller machines (slimline and table-top models), and with lightly soiled loads.

Post# 984418 , Reply# 26   2/26/2018 at 11:09 by iej (Ireland)        

It actually gets extremely bad on my relatively new Miele during the intensive cycle as pump turned up to max and the jets are really spraying very intensively. It just churns up a huge amount of foam in the bottom of the machine and everything's dripping with foam if you open the door.

It doesn't seem to matter how dirty the dishes are. I think it's just not a great formulation. It's way, way too soapy and by the looks of the posts above its hitting a wide range of machines both ultra efficient news ones and old classics too.

Post# 984429 , Reply# 27   2/26/2018 at 12:59 by rp2813 (The Big Blue Bubble)        

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Those times I've encountered excess suds, I added just a few drops of de-foamer for the hot tub and suds disappear.  I hadn't thought of vinegar, but that might be a better option.

Post# 984436 , Reply# 28   2/26/2018 at 13:26 by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        

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Since vinegar is and acid wouldnít it lower the PH making the water softer and more inclined to oversudsing?

Post# 984469 , Reply# 29   2/26/2018 at 17:56 by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
I wonder

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if all the foam could damage your dishwasher? I use Finish Powerball and it doesn't foam at all. The Finish Quantum foamed terribly when I used a sample of it. It made the dishwasher sound like a totally different machine. I remember thinking WTH is wrong because of the sound it made.I opened the dishwasher and foam all over the place and that is with hard water and non-rinsed dishes. This is why I've been afraid to try Platinum because I've read reports of too much foam and I remembered the Quantum sample I used. It did a great job getting the dishes clean and they were rinsed well...but it made me wonder if that laboring sound during the long wash cycle would shorten the life of the dishwasher.

Post# 984487 , Reply# 30   2/26/2018 at 19:52 by Infusor (Michigan)        

Platinum pack in my whirlpool made kenmore portable, i use any other detergent and have zero foam, i since switched to finish quantum. My water is city water and not really soft eather.

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Post# 984509 , Reply# 31   2/26/2018 at 21:55 by Maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
I have not had

oversudsing in my new apartment's "Electrolux-idaire" dishwasher with Cascade Platinum, I do believe you all, though.

I DID have oversudsing with Platinum in my previous dishwasher, the GE Nautilus.

The best oversudsing treatment, besides getting a less sudsy detergent next time, is a small spoonful or so of an edible fat, like canola oil, or butter......whatever's at hand. Just open the machine and put the fat in the tub and restart.


Post# 984512 , Reply# 32   2/26/2018 at 22:35 by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        

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With my water and a KitchenAid KUDS24 I had awful foaming to the point of leaking with Finish Powerball tablets. I gave a bunch of them to a co worker that doesn't have softened water.

I started using Cascade Platinum packs and while I sometimes see a bit of foaming if I open the door, it never created a problem. I bought Cascade Complete packs last time to compare them and they seem ok sudsing wise, seem to clean just fine also.

Post# 984514 , Reply# 33   2/26/2018 at 22:43 by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        

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I use Cascade Platinum paks and havenít noticed any sudsing problem, but we have very hard water here too. Itís hard to get suds from most new detergents with our hard water.

I do very minimal rinsing, and always use the 1 hour cycle that uses more water, so that may also account for my not having a prob with excess suds. Anyway, the Platinum Paks clean very well and I like them.

Post# 984575 , Reply# 34   2/27/2018 at 10:54 by kd12 (Arkansas)        
Rinse aids could be problem

I stopped using Electrasol several years ago because of sudsing and switched to Cascade Complete. Have not had any sudsing issues at all with Cascade Complete. I don't use Platinum because I don't really need the extra rinse-aids, so I don't know if it sudses or not. I did however have a sudsing issue with Finish Jet-dry years ago.

Post# 984596 , Reply# 35   2/27/2018 at 15:48 by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

When I did dishes last night I used Platinum as I have been and looked to see just how foamy it was.  My new KA had a little puddle of water with just a little foam on top - noting that would cause and issue.  The foam may be a function of the water level and how the wash arm moves the water, no idea why some would have an issue.

Post# 984622 , Reply# 36   2/27/2018 at 20:32 by perc-o-prince (Southboro, Mass)        
I wondr if all the foam could damage your dishwasher

Myself and other Miele techs have been out on calls where the only problem is oversudsing. Soapy water can get by seals and trigger a float switch in the bottom pan as well as assist in water getting past door seals causing external leaks. It can also cause drain faults and door-switch faults, as well as heating faults. New machines only use about 5.4 liters a fill, so that's not much water! Less water, less soap needed.

In the field, we heavily suggest to folks that they not use pods. It's way more soap than is needed. If they use compressed powder pucks, we suggest they cut them in half for most loads.


Post# 984644 , Reply# 37   2/28/2018 at 06:08 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
"we heavily suggest that they not use pods"

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I'm pretty sure that I came across anecdotal UK independent engineer reports of them attending store brand dishwashers (e.g. Currys 'Kenwood' and 'Logik'; defunct Comet 'Proline', etc. It probably also referred to Argos 'Bush' and 'Russell Hobbs') - usually made in China.

Too much foam caused leaks into the flood tray. Unfortunately, due to poor build quality and poorly positioned components, the motor electrics got short-circuited too. Complete write-off as parts were difficult to get.

Post# 985046 , Reply# 38   3/3/2018 at 06:32 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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I've often thought those tabs/pods were too concentrated for the small amount of water the modern dishwashers use.

If I use one and hear the foam sound inside...and open the door to check it out...when I re-latch the door to start the machine it will bubble out under the door!  I just gave my last ones to my mother who has the same dishwasher as me but unsoftened water.

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