Thread Number: 75137
/ Tag: Modern Dishwashers
Question about modern countertop dishwashers
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|Post# 989516   4/5/2018 at 03:59 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)  || |
This thread is about a product I'm considering to release by The Laundry Alternative.
Folks, What do you think about those portable countertop dishwashers like Magic Chef, SPT, Danby and a zillion other brands that have exactly the same product?
What if we made the same diswasher with two racks, two spray arms (under each rack) plus a mini sprinkler on the top.
The features are:
Accu-temp hold: Even if you fill it with ice cold water, it will extend all the baths (wash and rinses) until the internal heater can heat up the water to at least 70°C
QUick cycle: 30 minutes (for lightly soiled dishes)
Pots and pans (that lasts forever)
Smart rinse and hold: Instead of just rinse the dishes for 5 minutes and drain, the dishwasher fills sprays the dishes for 3 minutes, drains, refills and sprays the dishes for 10 seconds every 30 minutes for up to 48 hours, replacing the water every 12 hours, to keep everything wet and prevent mold. The dishwasher drains when another cycle is selected.
Regular rinse and hold (rinse and mold) cycle
semi self cleaning filter: (you have to clean the filter, but only to remove big chunks. small bits are shredded by the drain pump and drained with the water.)
100% stainless steel interior.
Wi-Fi (Alexa, Bixby or it's own app but not Siri)
Option to install portable (with dishwasher quick connect adapter and hoses) or freestanding ont he countertop or below the sink (niche)
Upper rack is removable to wash extra tall items. There is a sprayer that connects to the pipe for the upper spray arm when you remove the upper rack.
I have the option to add a water softener (salt dispenser on the sump)
Total 9 services capacity
Electrolux has a very similar model in Brazil. (Youtube video below)
Tell me your thoughts.
Oh, and for users that have old kitchens with super low cabinets, we will also have a 6-service model with the same features above and dimensions similar to the beaten path models everybody can see at home depot.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO thomasortega's LINK
|Post# 989521 , Reply# 1   4/5/2018 at 05:05 by appnut (TX)  || |
|Post# 989536 , Reply# 2   4/5/2018 at 09:30 by IowaBear (Cedar Rapids, IA)  || |
These little machines are so interesting, I especially like that the Electrolux one you linked has a window. It looks like a high-quality machine.
I think if I ever live in a place without a dishwasher I would certainly consider buying one. Of course they are large and take up a lot of counter space, but still more convenient than lugging a portable one over to the sink all the time. I guess it would depend on the kitchen.
Whether I would pay more for a better one would probably depend on how long I intended to stay in the rental because I couldn't count on it fitting (or being needed if there was a built-in) in the next place.
I wonder what demographic is buying these now? Once in a while (not often) one of these shows up on our local CL so I don't think it's the Midwest. 18" dishwashers (either built-in or portable) are also a rarity around here.
|Post# 989540 , Reply# 3   4/5/2018 at 10:01 by Chachp (Conway, AR)  || |
I also think this is an interesting machine but I wonder how do they get all that in a machine that fits under a standard counter with a cabinet above. Or, maybe it would only work where there is no cabinet above. I can't see how you get two racks, and fit a full size dinner plate in a machine that has to fit in about 15-17" high space.
I love the window in that one listed.
|Post# 989543 , Reply# 4   4/5/2018 at 10:22 by Yogitunes (New Jersey)  || |
I guess it all depends on how you look at it.....
the bottom line is, this has already been invented.....
now if you threw a monkey wrench into it, making into something that no one else has...and by that I mean multi-purpose....
if it was a countertop dishwasher, AND a microwave.......
and/or coffeemaker, water dispenser, toaster, wine cooler, convection oven, etc....
I could see something like this being beneficial for an application like a motorhome....
|Post# 989544 , Reply# 5   4/5/2018 at 10:26 by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield & London UK)  || |
I feel there are a couple of drawbacks to this concept Thomas:
1. The price. You have clearly put a lot of thought into this but there will be a perception that a small countertop dishwasher should be cheaper than a floorstanding 24" model - even a BOL model, and what you have described is a long way off BOL. All those models coming from China seem to be largely the same (worldwide) so the ecomonies of scale will make their unit manufacturing costs much lower and consquently the price likewise.
2. Presumeably you will be pitching these at apartment dwellers with small kitchens and, I am guessing, not much counter space which will already be at a premium with microwaves, toaster ovens, toasters and the like - and IMHO, in this country, floor standing slimline models (18 inches) are more popular for this reason. Perhaps if you could offer it with a bench stand so it could sit over a microwave (or vice versa) so that less counter space is lost that might open this particular market further.
I guess there would be a market in caravens and motor homes and perhaps in assisted living facilities for the elderly but I find it difficult to see where you will get the volume to bring the selling price to a reaistic level - a quick look at our market place shows the compact, counter top dishwashers priced way beyond the full size models.
There is perhaps another angle you could look at though. I have seen here, occasionally, a freestanding range (60cm or 24") with four burners (gas from memory), a small but fully featured oven/broiler (probably about 40cm high) with a single rack dishwasher at the bottom. If you were to update this to an induction hob (and possibly fewer than 4 burners) with a combination microwave/oven/broiler and the dishwasher under that you might be on to something in that several appliances are combined in a 60x60x90cm box which might be a considerable advantage in a small kitchen - sure there is limited capacity in each appliance, but in a tiny kitchen that might be a compromise worth making.
Good luck with your research
|Post# 989568 , Reply# 6   4/5/2018 at 15:10 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)  || |
Yep, Heigh is an issue, for this reason we will also have the "beaten path 6-service model with one rack.
The width and depth for this 2-rack models is the same for the 1 rack model.
To fight beautifully with our competitors I'm betting on the features (for both models). Even electrolux uses a plastic sump in Brazil, ours will be 100% stainless steel, we're also thinking of SS racks coated with clear vinyl and the water softener to be the impressive feature that is found only in high end models.
In terms of capacity, if we load it neatly, not making bob loads, it can wash the same capacity as a GE 24 inch portable that has that obsolete rack with too much space between the plates. Actually the whole dishwasher is almost the same size internally, the gain is basically on the motor compartment and thin (but insulated) walls together with optimized racks that intuitively create "bob loads". The door design also helps increasing the capacity as 1 inch of the rack is "out" of the sump area.
I can't compare Brazil as demographics comparison because dishwashers aren't very popular there. and who has dishwashers, usually have the models that here we call portable. (those countertop units.)
Full size units are freestanding and built in models are rare (if I'm not mistaken there was only one model by Brastemp and it was a marketing disaster because people would look at it and say "OMG they are charging a fortune but they went so so cheap that they forgot to make the outer cabinet"
|Post# 989577 , Reply# 7   4/5/2018 at 17:52 by panthera (Rocky Mountains)  || |
Here's the good and the bad:
1) They clean exceedingly well.
2) Their quality control is all over the place
3) The drain hoses ALWAYS snap off at the connector (no biggy, just clamp a regular one on).
4) They're super expensive and replacement parts are non-existent.
5) They're loud.
6) If you really don't mind the loss of capacity, they're totally, perfectly good, genuine dishwashers.
7) It takes a while to learn to dose the detergent, start with powders or liquids, not pods.
|Post# 989593 , Reply# 8   4/5/2018 at 19:34 by IowaBear (Cedar Rapids, IA)  || |
|Post# 989621 , Reply# 9   4/6/2018 at 02:02 by logixx (Germany)  || |
|Post# 989625 , Reply# 10   4/6/2018 at 04:33 by Spiraclean (UK)  || |
I have one of those "squat" 2-rack Siemens dishwashers like in the video above. It slots straight into a 60cm base cupboard by simply removing the door and drawer. I sourced a laser cut metal grille from Amazon to compensate for the height difference, which makes it look truly built in. No permanent alterations needed; when the time comes to move I will be able to remove the DW and reinstate the cupboard, and my landlord will be none the wiser.
Compared to the countertop model I had previously, it's a nice upgrade. Greater capacity, much quieter, and has features on par with a TOL conventional dishwasher.
The only downside is that the upper rack is shallower than a regular sized machine. You can get mugs, tumblers, utensils and roasting dishes up there with no problems. Highball, wine or pint glasses must go in the lower rack, along with any other tall items, but the folding tines and flip-down supports make this easier. It does take a little getting used to at first, but to be honest I find that to be the case with any new dishwasher - after a week or so you get used to the quirks and soon have the loading pattern down.
As with any speciality appliance, they can be somewhat expensive. Normal retail was around the £700 mark, which I think is too much. Fortunately I found mine on clearance for £400, which seems a more realistic price for what you get. I just hope it lasts, because there isnt really anything else out there right now which fills this particular niche in the market.