Thread Number: 75333  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
"New" washer for Mom
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Post# 991783   4/22/2018 at 15:22 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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The refurbed 1999 Kenmore 90 she has been using for six years threw a leak several weeks ago.  I found that the problem apparently is a combination of failing neutral drain and two broken tabs on the tub for latching the tub ring.  The leak occurred on a high fill.  Doesn't happen on low, the swirling water doesn't kick up high enough.

So I pulled out the 2005 F&P GWL11 to refurb that friend Tony gave to me five years ago when it developed a drain issue.  The tub & basket were surprisingly clean (although not pristine by any measure) but the exterior was kinda wrecked with dirt and dog hair in every crevice from his garage and lots of scuffs and scratches.  Much nicer after thorough clean-up and a paint job.  I thought I found the drain problem to be the drain hose kinked essentially flat where it exits the cabinet. However, upon reassembly and a test-run I found that the motor control board is bad, keeping the diverter energized continuously so it won't drain (unless the diverter is disconnected).  Bearings, pump, etc. are all in good shape so I ordered a board.

I also had an idea that I can convert it to a more advanced IWL by changing the console and display board.  GWL11, IWL12, and IWL15 are all Phase 6 models that use the same motor board.  The display board is what gives the machine its "personality."  I found a couple pre-owned IWL12 consoles on that popular shopping site.

No pics of the before and refurb process but will get a few of it before and after the console change.

Will probably fix the Kenmore and sell it (swapping the outer tub from Mom's 1994 KA toploader which is just about done parting-out now and I have a neutral drain repair kit).





Post# 991788 , Reply# 1   4/22/2018 at 16:19 by whatsername (Loveland, CO)        

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Sounds like a plan! Your mom is very lucky.

Post# 991801 , Reply# 2   4/22/2018 at 17:45 by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Hi Glen

Over the years I've had a few F&P's with faulty diverters where the symptom is that it will recirc but not drain. I've never had the control board as the culprit for those, its always been the diverter thats become defective.

I recently had a timer for a 1956 Malley's machine rebuilt in Sydney and the repairer let me know that F&P are no longer manufacturing the genuine French made pumps, apparently now you have to scramble for aftermarket or leftover stock for anything made before about 2013, its a bit said that Haier have done that, considering you'd been able to get most parts going back as far as 1990 up to that point.

Cheers

Nathan


Post# 991830 , Reply# 3   4/23/2018 at 00:13 by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

What is the neutral drain repair kit?  I've go a Kenmore electronic 90 series from the mid 90's that does not drain completely before going into spin.  I rarely use it, my Duets handle most everything, but I'd like to keep the Kenmore in top condition for whenever. I do run a hot cycle every few months, just to keep it operating condition.  Can't really believe how much water it uses, a number of years ago I'd do 1 or 2 loads every day or so, think of all the water it used....


Post# 991840 , Reply# 4   4/23/2018 at 03:59 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Greetings, Nathan.

It shifts fully to recirculate when powered and fully to drain when non-powered (disconnected from the board). I've been of the understanding that the board is the fault if the diverter engages immediately when the machine is connected to power.  It tested at 1,200 ohms when cool, which is within the spec-range of 700 to 2,500.  I admit I didn't check it when hot so perhaps it goes out-of-range then.

I've heard about the pump issue.  Word offered on another discussion board is that Selni (the French company) is shutting down, liquidating.  Would Haier be directly involved in that happening?  I don't have a clue where/how to source a substitute pump so am planning to get a spare or two.  This hobby is expen$ive and it sucks big-time when crucial parts for unique machines go NLA.


Post# 991841 , Reply# 5   4/23/2018 at 04:25 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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MattL,

The neutral drain kit Part Number 388253 replaces several components inside the transmission for the neutral drain function.


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Post# 991916 , Reply# 6   4/23/2018 at 19:10 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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No success.  :-(

I received the new/replacement motor board and pre-owned IWL12 consoles this morning.

I checked the diverter again before installing the board.  It read 2,100 ohms when cool, 800 ohms after energizing for several minutes.  Both readings are within specification range of 2,500 to 700 ohms.  I also confirmed the "bad" board is outputting 120v to the diverter circuit immediately upon connecting the machine to mains power (with the machine itself not powered on or otherwise running).

I selected and clean up one of the IWL12 consoles.

I swapped in the new motor board.  Connected the original GWL11 console first.  It worked.

Changed to the IWL12 board.  It powered-on for about 3 minutes, long enough to set the machine size parameter, then went dead and would no longer power-on.

Dammnit.

I reinstalled the original board (with the diverter disconnected) and the original GWL11 console.  Successfully ran a load on Perm Press (which doesn't use the diverter).  So, left the machine for mom to use that way.

Upon arriving home, I tried the selected pre-owned IWL12 console on my IWL12 machine and it works.

So the new/replacement motor board is defective.  Placed a return request with the eBay seller, awaiting reply.

Pics of the components that comprise an IWL12 console, the machines in mom's laundry room (1994 KitchenAid dryer, and yes their house has foundation issues, has been leveled several times), the GWL11 console, and original motor board.

Component connections on the board from the right side:  temperature thermistor (red at connector, black at mixing chamber), lid lock and OOB switch, rotor position sensor, display board (black), pump and SmartDrive motor, diverter (orange, disconnected).

Interesting to note that the less sophisticated GWL display board has seven wires on the connector.  The more sophisticated IWL display board has four wires.  Either one connects to the same socket on the motor board.


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Post# 991933 , Reply# 7   4/24/2018 at 00:37 by MattL (Flushing, MI)        
Neutral Drain...

Thanks- Not sure I have any interest in tearing into the transmission.  My unit starts spinning with the tub still half full of water, a lot more stress on the system than it needs.  Was hoping it was an easy fix.


Post# 991941 , Reply# 8   4/24/2018 at 07:15 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Neutral drain is a mechanical function that occurs inside the transmission, other than the role of the timer timer to enact a motor pause between agitate and drain for the motor to reverse, and again between drain and spin for the neutral drain mechanism to release and engage spin.  So repairs related to it are either 1) replacement of the timer if the pauses are failing, or 2) replacing the mechanical components involved inside the transmission, or 3) replacing the transmission as a whole.


Post# 992034 , Reply# 9   4/25/2018 at 00:22 by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

Thanks, I think.  Not what I wanted to hear.  Mine is the electronic model, so unless I'm mistaken, no mechanical timer.  At this point it will remain as is unfortunately.


Post# 992271 , Reply# 10   4/27/2018 at 01:37 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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My bad ... I didn't notice until after I submitted a return request that the eBay seller of the motor board advises that he doesn't take returns.  However, he did accept the request ... so his good, assuming he does process a refund on it upon receipt.

I ordered another board from a different source.  Also a diverter, will change it before powering-up the 2nd replacement board, keep the original diverter as a spare.

I also ordered three pumps, and a bunch of other stuff for some other machine projects.


Post# 993432 , Reply# 11   5/7/2018 at 16:37 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Refund posted for the eBay board, so yay!  Alternate order is backordered, supposed to ship from the supplier today, don't yet know.

I put the 12 panel on Mom's machine yesterday, realized I can set the default cycle to always run a Traditional Wash and avoid the diverter, and avoid having to use Perm Press.  She likes it thus far.  She runs a lot of small loads and the lowest water level is considerably less than the KM's low.

I put the 11 panel on my machine to observe its differences for a while (newer software version).  Water level sensing routine is different.





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