Thread Number: 75501  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Newbie needs advice for a new top load washer.
[Down to Last]

automaticwasher.org's exclusive eBay Watch:
scroll >>> for more items
Post# 993383   5/7/2018 at 09:07 by dsell (Kansas)        

The transmission bearings on our Maytag Centennial are noisy on the spin cycle. New transmission is $160 and then who knows how long before I'd need a splutch or other parts. The other downer about this machine, I've probably thrown away $300 worth of stained clothes, stained with white soap or mineral deposits. It mainly attacks black clothes with synthetic fibers, dress clothes. I use Charlies powder soap, vinegar rinse in the Downy ball, and I always mix 3/4 gallon of water with a scoop of Charlies before adding to the machine. Aside from the white stains, we've been happy with the machine and the process we have developed. I assume no one makes the old school neutral transmission top loader any longer. I've been led by searches to Speed Queen, but are the newest models not as good? What do you recommend for a top loader?




Post# 993477 , Reply# 1   5/8/2018 at 02:31 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

And yhy a top loader? Front loaders are much better than those modern top loaders that don't use water.


Post# 993481 , Reply# 2   5/8/2018 at 03:24 by speedqueen (Harrison Twp, Michigan)        
The new Maytag commercial

speedqueen's profile picture
Here is a review by our own Eugene(Lorain Furniture).






Post# 993488 , Reply# 3   5/8/2018 at 07:09 by dsell (Kansas)        

Well Thomas, that's the easiest question I've had for a while. The answer, my wife doesn't like the looks of the front loaders. The Centennial would have been 5 years old in June 2018 and it was only used by my wife and I with occasional company.

Post# 993492 , Reply# 4   5/8/2018 at 07:35 by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
I suppose you must use Charlie's? I've heard very mixed reviews about it.

Post# 993494 , Reply# 5   5/8/2018 at 08:26 by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Hi and Welcome!

panthera's profile picture

A few thoughts on your situation.

First, if a top loader (TL) is the only washer in question, then you're going to have three categories to chose from:

1) 2017 or earlier new Speed Queen (not the 2018 models, they were redesigned and don't work well).

2) Another member of the Whirlpool family - under the hood, they're basically all the same.

3) A well-serviced Whirlpool direct drive or Maytag from their good era.

 

As to the other problems, here's an interesting situation: Vinegar with some detergent residues as well as vinegar with some forms of hard water causes worse problems with deposits than citric acid. 


Post# 993501 , Reply# 6   5/8/2018 at 09:13 by dsell (Kansas)        

Logix, some years back my laundry started smelling like sewer, especially my blue jeans. I was using Tide liquid with some flavor of Bounce sheets in the dryer. No fabric softener in the washer. That's when I made the switch to Charlies, vinegar and on some items I use a Bounce scent free sheet in the dryer for the static reduction. We've used Charlies since 2011 and are very happy with the exception of the white stains on the black dress clothes. We have lots of white minerals in our water as well and have to use citric acid in our dishwasher.

Post# 993512 , Reply# 7   5/8/2018 at 10:15 by dsell (Kansas)        

Hi Panthera, I appreciate the summary. I'm not surprised with your response based on the research I've done. The Maytag video posted above uses the same tin can transmission design as all the other Whirlpool top loaders. Why pay $800 for a machine that will have the same bearing failure in 5 years as a $360 machine? I was disappointed to see the Speed Queeen changed design, I was seriously considering it. The Fisher Paykel washer is out of my pay scale. I bought a WTW4816FW2 Whirlpool last night for $360 with tax. It looks nearly identical to the Maytag MVWC360AW0 that I'm replacing, other than the Whirlpool has an agitator. The transmission would be $160 for the Maytag and just didn't make sense vs another $200 for a new machine. However, my back doesn't agree with that today! I'm going to take the tin can transmission apart on the Maytag and see if it's possible to replace the bearings for future reference when the Whirlpool has the same issue. I may keep my eyes peeled for an old direct drive Whirlpool to rebuild. Are you saying I could use citric acid in the wash? I use vinegar as a fabric softener. I've thought of using citric acid in the wash, but I don't know how much or what it would do to the clothes. Citric acid is a must with our dishwasher.


Post# 993525 , Reply# 8   5/8/2018 at 13:15 by speedqueen (Harrison Twp, Michigan)        

speedqueen's profile picture
In that case, just look on CL or or your local used appliance shops for a Direct Drive, you can probably get one for cheaper than the new transmission. Where generally are you in Kansas? I could look on CL for you and bring up a variety of good DD models or perhaps an older helical drive Maytag.

Post# 993533 , Reply# 9   5/8/2018 at 14:34 by dsell (Kansas)        

Wichita and Salina are my Craigslist options.

Post# 993541 , Reply# 10   5/8/2018 at 16:12 by speedqueen (Harrison Twp, Michigan)        
Here are a few DDs in Wichita

speedqueen's profile picture
wichita.craigslist.org/app/d/was...

Newer, but bottom of the line.
wichita.craigslist.org/app/d/was...

Could use a cleaning, but a TOL Kenmore model with all possible features.
wichita.craigslist.org/app/d/was...

Older Kenmore
wichita.craigslist.org/app/d/was...

Well featured and from a dealer w/ warranty
wichita.craigslist.org/ppd/d/was...


Post# 993542 , Reply# 11   5/8/2018 at 16:17 by speedqueen (Harrison Twp, Michigan)        
Now from Salina

speedqueen's profile picture
Older Whirlpool
salina.craigslist.org/app/d/whir...

I wish to add, with these prices versus new, even if it lasts only four years, you are still ahead versus paying full new price, $300+, and having the same happen. All of what I posted is for less than just the trans cost of a new VMW belt-drive Whirlpool.


Post# 993558 , Reply# 12   5/8/2018 at 21:12 by dsell (Kansas)        

I had the 1st one on the list before we bought the Centennial. It lasted a long time, but when the tranny went out, I took it apart but I couldn't figure out what was wrong.

Post# 993560 , Reply# 13   5/8/2018 at 21:46 by speedqueen (Harrison Twp, Michigan)        

speedqueen's profile picture
What was it doing when it went wrong?

Post# 993566 , Reply# 14   5/8/2018 at 22:48 by twintubdexter (Palm Springs)        
I'm ready for "The Home"...

twintubdexter's profile picture

Salina Kansas. That's where Kim Novak (as Judy) said she was from in the fine film "Vertigo". Has nothing to do with this topic. It's just something I remember...


Post# 993573 , Reply# 15   5/9/2018 at 01:59 by dartman (Portland Oregon)        

The Kenmore 28102 I bought about 2014 has eaten the tub bearings so it's super noisy in spin mode now, other than that it still works fine. If your machine is a top loader based on the Whirlpool design like mine is you can buy a complete bearing set with the main shaft and bearing remove/install tool for around 120,that's what I did and I just don't feel like tearing it apart yet. If all you need is the bearing set they can be had dirt cheap. People are renting out the install tool cheap online too. You pay replacement price up front and if you return it intact within the specified time they refund everything but a small rental fee. You can rig something up to do it too so maybe you can fix that thing cheap enough to resale or have a back up.

Post# 993591 , Reply# 16   5/9/2018 at 07:18 by dsell (Kansas)        

Dartman, the tin can transmission contains the bearings on my Centennial.

Twintubdexter, I thought Dorothy, Toto, and Cousin Eddie from Vacation were the only ones that claimed Kansas.

Speedqueen, it's been 5 years but half the time the spin cycle didn't work. It was making a noise but I can't remember the details. I made a video of it running but I can't find it now. It was intermittent. I had changed the agitator dogs and seems like there was a tub adaptor that could go bad, it was good. Seems there was a clutch/brake under the tranny and it looked fine. I had narrowed it down to the tranny, so I opened it up and there wasn't anything obviously bad. One time it had done it's cycle and the tub was half full of water. Other times, the clothes would be soaking wet like it drained but never spun.


Post# 993596 , Reply# 17   5/9/2018 at 08:56 by speedqueen (Harrison Twp, Michigan)        

speedqueen's profile picture
If the tub ever ended up fill of water, I would first suspect the pump as these models are neutral drain and no matter how spin performance is, it should never end up full of water. The timer could (extreamly unlikely) also be failing to initiate the drain and spin at all. Without that evidence I would have said the spin clutch or coupler.

Post# 993598 , Reply# 18   5/9/2018 at 10:08 by dsell (Kansas)        

Speedqueen, the coupler and water pump were new. Still have spares of each hanging on my garage wall. I wondered about the timer, but the timer didn't explain the noise.

Post# 993603 , Reply# 19   5/9/2018 at 11:17 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
If the machine of question would have been 5 years old in June 2018, wouldn't it have been a VMW design, not direct-drive with a coupler?  What's the model number?


Post# 993604 , Reply# 20   5/9/2018 at 11:25 by dsell (Kansas)        

DADoES, The Centennial is a VMW design. MVWC360AW0 uses W11035747 gearcase. Speedqueen and I are discussing the machine I had before the Centennial. He found one on Craigslist exactly like the direct drive I had 5 years ago. wichita.craigslist.org/app/d/was...

Post# 993622 , Reply# 21   5/9/2018 at 14:56 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

Wait...

 

Replace the washer because it ended the cycle full of water? whaaaaaat?

1) clogged pump. maybe a sock?
2) damaged pump
3) Drain hose kinked or clogged


About the noise:

If it was trying to spin full of water, of course it will make noise.

Before anything, I would simply check the pump first.

If everything is ok, than it can be the timer (difficult but not impossible)

Anyway, it's much cheaper than replacing the washer.

Bearings went bad? replace them!


Post# 993623 , Reply# 22   5/9/2018 at 15:21 by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
desell

pierreandreply4's profile picture
desell,

maybe you should check if your washer do not simply need a new motor I know by experience I had an old direct drive inglis superbII was just a few days after movbing in it was evening had laundry to do go to put the clothes in the dryer washer was still full of water set it on final spin to have the washer drain out the water the washer only hum and buzz called in a tech and turns out the washer needed a motor replacement cost lest today to have your washer repaired than buy a whole new set


Post# 993624 , Reply# 23   5/9/2018 at 15:33 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.



Post# 993627 , Reply# 24   5/9/2018 at 15:47 by good-shepherd (New Jersey)        
the Speed Queeen changed design, I was seriously considering

Call around to some local dealers, you may luck out and find a place that has the older model Speed Queen on hand, or knows who does.

I think combo52 mentioned a while ago he still had a leftover Speed Queen in stock.


Post# 993635 , Reply# 25   5/9/2018 at 16:07 by good-shepherd (New Jersey)        
Speed Queen

How about this:

www.appliancesconnection....


Post# 993689 , Reply# 26   5/9/2018 at 21:26 by dsell (Kansas)        

Got the Centennial apart. The top bearing and tub seal is bad as expected. There was black mold in the bottom. The top and bottom bearings are 6006-2RS. I heated the case with a torch and used a drift punch to knock the top bearing out and separate the tin can. I used my drill press to drill out the toggle locks.

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 19         View Full Size
Post# 993695 , Reply# 27   5/9/2018 at 22:21 by dsell (Kansas)        

Not sure what a person would do for the top and bottom agitator shaft seals if trying to rebuild the transmission. These are weeping a bit. Also, not sure about the speedy sleeve the tub seal rides on. Maybe it comes with the tub seal? I'm not going to rebuild it, just learning. The bottom bearing is in good condition. What is the trick to keeping the mold from growing in the water left at the bottom?

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 4         View Full Size
Post# 993703 , Reply# 28   5/10/2018 at 02:24 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

To prevent mold, that's easy..

1) use hot water always you can
2) Use CHLORINE BLEACH always you can.


Post# 993713 , Reply# 29   5/10/2018 at 07:04 by dsell (Kansas)        

thomasortega, We don't use bleach or hot water. Do we need to make a weekly routine of running the clean cycle? Or, just drop some rags in and run it on hot with bleach once a week? How much bleach?

Post# 993715 , Reply# 30   5/10/2018 at 07:30 by dsell (Kansas)        

Thomasortega, back on the old machine,
Wait...



Replace the washer because it ended the cycle full of water? whaaaaaat?

1) clogged pump. maybe a sock? no
2) damaged pump no, it was new and so was the motor coupler and agitator dogs.
3) Drain hose kinked or clogged, no


About the noise:

If it was trying to spin full of water, of course it will make noise., no

Before anything, I would simply check the pump first. did

If everything is ok, than it can be the timer (difficult but not impossible) very possible, I was worried it may be two problems, timer and gearbox.

Anyway, it's much cheaper than replacing the washer.

Bearings went bad? replace them! I just looked at the diagram and I only see one bearing. I suspect the upper bearing was a bushing? LSQ9244EQ0

Here again, this is just learning for me in case I decide to get an old direct drive and try to fix it. I searched for the video of the old machine running with noises, but I can't find it. I think I deleted it. Hindsight 20/20, I should have bought a new gearbox for that machine.


Post# 993718 , Reply# 31   5/10/2018 at 08:03 by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Citric Acid

panthera's profile picture

One of the members, Laundress, could give you a more detailed explanation but, yes, you can add a small amount of citric acid to the final rinse or use a larger amount to remove mineral buildup in a warm wash.

Which brings us to a bit of a conundrum. If you don't use hot water and you don't use chlorine bleach and you don't use a strong detergent...

You're going to have to adapt your washing patterns to compensate.

 

I'm not saying you can't get the cleaning you need without them, but there's a real problem with the current top loading products on the market:

They just don't clean well without the most advanced (means aggressive) enzymatic cleaners and the least soiled clothes possible using their standard programs.

 

The first step is to find one of the strong cleaners which is acceptable to you. Ammonia? That one goes back thousands of years and works well, even in colder water.

Borax? Can work wonders, but you'll want to dissolve it in some hot water and pour it in, first.

Baking Soda? Not to be dismissed.

 

If you're not going to use chlorine bleach, you're going to have to find something else to regularly kill off the mold/microbes/yech building up in your machine. I have a friend here in Cheyenne who is fully eco/coldwater/natural foods grocer's style washing powder, etc. Once a month, he runs a HOT water wash with a strong detergent and adds chlorine bleach to the bleach dispenser. We worked on his 20+ year old Whirlpool a while back, it was quite surprisingly clean inside.

 

I hope you get everything resolved to your satisfaction. Keep us up to date! 


Post# 993723 , Reply# 32   5/10/2018 at 08:44 by dsell (Kansas)        

Here is another thought to my new machine. How often should I change the tub seal, W10006371 for WTW4816FW2 machine? Obviously, I shouldn't wait 5 years or until the machine makes noise. Change it every year? 2 years? It's a $21 part and fairly easy to access.

Post# 993732 , Reply# 33   5/10/2018 at 10:18 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
What part is the motor coupler on this machine?


Post# 993733 , Reply# 34   5/10/2018 at 10:35 by dsell (Kansas)        

I'm sorry I ever mentioned the old direct drive machine that I replaced 5 years ago with the Centennial. That obviously has people seriously confused. The (5 year old Centennial) and (Whirlpool machine that I bought this week) are VMW machines.

Post# 993734 , Reply# 35   5/10/2018 at 10:43 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Ohhhh, you're talking about your previous/old machine, a WP direct-drive model, regards to ending a cycle full of water?  That's an odd situation I'd like to have seen first-hand being that the pump on those is direct-drive on the motor and it doesn't have much choice other than to drain when the motor runs in the correct direction.


Post# 993738 , Reply# 36   5/10/2018 at 10:50 by Washerlad2014 (Bristol,UK)        
Rcommended washers

washerlad2014's profile picture
For a front loader i recommend frigidare or whirlpool duets. For a top loader i recommend speed queens or Whirlpool Cabrios but i dont know alot about american machines cuz im from the UK

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Washerlad2014's LINK


Post# 993754 , Reply# 37   5/10/2018 at 11:47 by dsell (Kansas)        

Ohhhh, you're talking about your previous/old machine, a WP direct-drive model, regards to ending a cycle full of water? That's an odd situation I'd like to have seen first-hand being that the pump on those is direct-drive on the motor and it doesn't have much choice other than to drain when the motor runs in the correct direction.


Yes, that's why I got rid of it. I think it had two problems, gearbox noise and timer/control issue. Maybe the motor didn't actually start. Too many if's and not enough time to deal with it. Like I said, hindsight 20/20, I should have pursued fixing it. Where I'm really kicking myself, around that time I bought my Mom a direct drive Whirlpool and dryer from an estate sale and they were like new. I let my brother have it after Mom was killed by a texting driver in 2012. I had just bought the Centennial so I didn't think I needed it.


Post# 993784 , Reply# 38   5/10/2018 at 14:43 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
I have a nice 2003 TOL WP possibly for sale ... nicely refurbed with fresh paint, new tub support/bearings, basket drive/brake/clutch, but didn't do anything to the transmission.  You'd have to come to TX to fetch it.


Post# 993785 , Reply# 39   5/10/2018 at 14:45 by dsell (Kansas)        

DADoES, what do you paint with? Primer? I need to paint the top of my white dryer.




Forum Index:       Other Forums:                      



Comes to the Rescue!

The Discuss-o-Mat has stopped, buzzer is sounding!!!
If you would like to reply to this thread please log-in...

Discuss-O-MAT Log-In



New Members
Click Here To Sign Up.



                     


automaticwasher.org home
Discuss-o-Mat Forums
Vintage Brochures, Service and Owners Manuals
Fun Vintage Washer Ephemera
See It Wash!
Video Downloads
Audio Downloads
Picture of the Day
Patent of the Day
Photos of our Collections
The Old Aberdeen Farm
Vintage Service Manuals
Vintage washer/dryer/dishwasher to sell?
Technical/service questions?
Looking for Parts?
Website related questions?
Digital Millennium Copyright Act Policy
Our Privacy Policy