Thread Number: 75650  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
I need help to choose a dishwasher
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Post# 994657   5/19/2018 at 18:18 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

Folks, I need some help to choose a dishwasher, now that I discovered a way to install a full size dishwasher in my kitchen.

1) I don't want absurdly expensive
2) I don't care if it will last "only" 5 years and vintage dishwashers are way beter because they last 327 years.
3) I don't care if it takes 10 hours to run a cycle.
4) Noise is not a deal breaker.
5) It is really important that it makes possible to remove AND use the dishwasher without the upper rack. (to wash extremely tall items, cookie sheets, etc.)
6) If it has a thrid rack, it's even better.
7) I'll build a cabinet to make it freestanding.
8) For god's sake, i don't want any kind of telescopic or "protuberant" sprayer! I want to be able to use 100% of the bottom rack with cookie sheets if needed.
9) I don't care about water savings. It can use more water or more detergent, as soon as everything comes out REALLY CLEAN and spotless (my water is hard as hell)
10) It doesn't need to be a TOL model, but I don't want those BOL models with plastic tubs.
11) I love bells and whistles, even if i never use them.

I forgot to add: I have a roaster oven and I want a way to wash it in the dishwasher if needed. even if for that I need to run a cycle with only it inside, no problem at all for me as I obviously don't need to wash it every week.





Post# 994661 , Reply# 1   5/19/2018 at 20:06 by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        

We have a Bosch Ascenta SHE3AR72UC and have been extremely happy with it so far. We have had it for about 6 months and it's been great. Excellent cleaning, multiple cycle choices (Heavy, Auto, Normal, Delicate, Express Wash, Half load) along with the Sanitize option, EXTREMELY quiet, can barely hear it running at times (Heavy wash increases pressure, Auto may increase pressure depending on soil level) Normal is barely audible standing in front of the machine. Adjustable (and removable) upper rack, one row of adjustable tines in each rack. Seems to be very efficient, doesn't take much detergent to do the job and leave everything spotless. We also have incredibly hard water, and we use a product called Lemishine, but not by the instructions. Instructions call for the detergent dispenser to be filled with the stuff, I use maybe a teaspoon per load, with the detergent. That helps with hard water residue. We alternate between Sam's club own brand detergent pods and Walmart's Great value powder and get results just as good as with Cascade. It does have a partially plastic tub, the sides and door liner are stainless, bottom is gray plastic. I don't forsee any issues with it. Cycle times aren't too horrible for a modern machine, with all options selected (hidden options) all cycles are less than 3 hours, Normal with Sanitize comes in at 2:55. Heavy with Sanitize comes in at 2:30, Auto with Sanitize takes 2:35 I believe? Not sure on the other cycles as they are rarely used, but I think Express wash takes 1:00, and Half load 1:55. This is Bosch's low end, bottom-of-the-line (!) Dishwasher, but I have been thoroughly impressed. It has an msrp of $499.99, but we got ours for just a shade over $300 because of a recall on another machine (repair or 40% off a new Bosch). If I had to replace it I would probably get the same machine.

Post# 994663 , Reply# 2   5/19/2018 at 20:15 by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        

It can fit one large cookie sheet with the upper rack in, and it doesn't have a tower in the lower rack. Upper rack is easily removed. Silverware basket can be placed in 2 locations in the lower rack, or in the upper rack if you so desire. Full size spray arms for each rack, and both run at the same time, along with a sprayer above the top rack. Can be a bit tricky to load at first, but it can be packed and everything still comes clean, I do not pre rinse at all. If I was going to wash the dishes before putting them in the dishwasher, I'd just put them away. Upper rack can fit dinner plates if in the lower position, plenty of headroom even in the upper position. I have to say it definitely took some getting used to, coming from a 20 year old Maytag Jetclean, but after that, I love it.

Post# 995200 , Reply# 3   5/25/2018 at 19:08 by mihotbear (Hazel Park MI)        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.



Post# 995201 , Reply# 4   5/25/2018 at 19:13 by mihotbear (Hazel Park MI)        
One simple answer

KitchenAid is the only way to go. Yes KitchenAid, Whirlpool, Maytag and Amana (I'm sure there is more that I have missed) are part of Whirlpool but there are differences.

The KitchenAid line is set to a higher standard than the regular Whirlpool appliances. I have a KitchenAid lower end model bought in 2009 that works better than any dishwasher I have ever had. The Consumer Reports ratings confirm this.

I don't want to disagree with the earlier poster, but in my opinion, Bosch appliances need to be avoided like the plague. Service and parts are ridiculously overpriced. The only Bosch parts I like are Plugs, points, condenser, rotor and distributor cap for my 1968 VW Bug. But I don't have that car anymore. My brother has a Bosch refrigerator and it is the most annoying piece of shit you could imagine. If you open the door and are looking in the refrigerator for something to eat, it starts beeping at you after about 20 seconds to close the door. Fuck you Bosch. I can think for myself. Thank you.

You can get a lower end KitchenAid for about $1,000. It will be the best money you have ever spent.


Post# 995233 , Reply# 5   5/26/2018 at 04:57 by henene4 (Germany)        

Door open alarms are standard, lol. Really. There should be a button to turn it off once it comes on.

And as if DWs have much to do with their DW. That's really about the equal logic of because one person did something slightly annoying you keep away from their whole town.


BSH DW are the standard in Europe. They are fair priced, wash better then most everything and live for a good time.

They wash hotter then most DW on the US market and are still more efficent then most.

Only downside might be drying. Still waiting for the wider rollout of Zeolite in the US.


Post# 995235 , Reply# 6   5/26/2018 at 05:22 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
I will say this:

I have had experience of expensive, top-of-the-line machines, and found that the basic models clean better with less fuss. True, they might be noisier, with less bells and whistles, but they do get the job done.


Post# 995251 , Reply# 7   5/26/2018 at 10:37 by washman (Butler, PA)        
Herer's my unit from Lowes

washman's profile picture

tem # 175058 Model # FFBD2406NS

 

Had it since I moved in 4/2015.  Not the fanciest but it carries the freight as needed.

 

MSRP at lowes is $279.00

 

www.lowes.com/pd/Frigidai...


Post# 995261 , Reply# 8   5/26/2018 at 12:20 by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND)        

jkbff's profile picture
A 499 Bosch is about the best the can go for low price dishwasher that does a great job.

Post# 995262 , Reply# 9   5/26/2018 at 12:22 by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND)        

jkbff's profile picture
That being said, miele is running a promo in the 4228s, you can get it for 799, it'll be the best dw under 1000, has a 3rd rack and is quiet.

I sell them all day long. Only in fingerprint resistant stainless steel.

www.mieleusa.com/domestic...

I can have one drop shipped if needed.


Post# 995308 , Reply# 10   5/27/2018 at 04:01 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

My kitchen has no space to "built in" a dishwasher.

The alternatives I have are: 

1) A portable unit

2) a built in one, I find a "dishwasher cabinet" that I googled and found at Ikea and then use this cabinet to make a "freestanding" unit based on a built in model.
I could also build a cabinet myself (I'm a designer duh, of course I can design a cabinet, but then I realize I'm too lazy to consider that.)

My concern, if I do that, is if the pump on american dishwashers is strong enough to pump the drain water through a house on the baseboard around the kitchen (aprox 5 meters) until reaching the first cabinet, then raise to the highest point under the cupboard (as I won't have an air gap) and drop to the disposer.
So, in theory, there would be no drag (low hose and after "climbing" to the highest point of the cabinet it would drop diagonally around 20 cm in 3 meters.

By the way, I never fill the sink up to the top.

i'm almost deciding on a Kenmore portable that I saw at Sears Outlet for under $500. It won't be the best thing ever to roll the dw to the sink every time i need to use it, but also it's not the worst nightmare.   


Post# 995335 , Reply# 11   5/27/2018 at 12:21 by Johnb300m (Chicago)        

johnb300m's profile picture
Heh, depending on how long that run is, you might be holding half a tub or more of water from the previous drain in that hose!
Long distance and normal height elevation should be ok.
I wonder if it would makes sense to add a 2nd check valve to that long run though.....IDK.
Many DWs handle the long run through a corner cabinet install pretty well.
Hard to say without observing the behavior in person.


Post# 995381 , Reply# 12   5/27/2018 at 19:07 by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND)        

jkbff's profile picture
Re-reading, how deep is the roaster pan?

This is how i use my Bosch in the garage.


  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 995586 , Reply# 13   5/29/2018 at 20:38 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

We have guests now, 7 young adults that came from Brazil for the World Jiu Jitsu Championship.

Those athletes EAT like monster, my kitchen is looking like a restaurant kitchen.

Having to run 11 (i said ELEVEN) loads in one single day using the 18 inch leaky Kenmore and the mini countertop Haier almost made me crazy. When I finally finished washing the breakfast and lunch dishes (and every single plate, glass, flatware, pan, whatever i have in my kitchen, they arrived back from training and went straight to the kitchen ready to eat a whole cow and the mountain of dirty dishes covered the sink again. I was desperate and Darryl and I decided to go to Sears and get a kenmore portable that will be delivered on Saturday.

It's not the very best dishwasher, but it fit in our budget at that moment, it doesn't have the telescopic spray and it's possible to use it without the upper rack if needed.

Even if it's not the very best dishwasher ever, as soon as monster loads fit in it, I'm more than happy. At least I know I have tried something before I have a nervous breakdown.

For my average daily basis use, it will be just perfect.

maybe, later, i can consider replacing the hoses to make it a "freestanding" dishwasher just to avoid rolling it to the sink every time i need to use it.

An just in case, I'll NEVER accept guests in my house again... Or at least not young adults. (18 to 23 years old.)


Today the kitchen sink decided to clog... What could be "better" than that?

Isn't it super lovely? (I'm ready to kill somebody)


Post# 995587 , Reply# 14   5/29/2018 at 20:40 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

www.sears.com/kenmore-24inch-port...

CLICK HERE TO GO TO thomasortega's LINK


Post# 995622 , Reply# 15   5/30/2018 at 07:56 by Johnb300m (Chicago)        

johnb300m's profile picture
I'm not a fan of the top rack, but these are very capable machines.
I think you will feel much better.
AND, with the 1 Hour Wash cycle, you'll be able to turn over those loads of dishes quite quickly.


Post# 995629 , Reply# 16   5/30/2018 at 10:56 by jkbff (Happy Rock, ND)        

jkbff's profile picture
That dishwasher will do just fine, just scrape the plates and don't do a short cycle with dried on messes. (We install the non portable version in most of the apartment buildings around town and they hold up pretty well.)

I think I would love the chaos of having the guests you have. I'm so tired of being in a big house by my self. :/


Post# 995778 , Reply# 17   5/31/2018 at 03:01 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

It's being a love and hate situation

I grew up in a hotel my family owned, I love to have guests.

The only problem with these guests is that they'1re young adults (19 to 25 y/o), so they don't have that sense of, let's say, "guest etiquette" we, fully grown adults, have.

During certain moments I fell like I'm going to freak out and kick everybody out of my house, but on many other moments I feel greatful because they are here. They are all very nice and have a very positive vibe. It's great to break the routine.

Overall, If i had to give them a score, I'd give 8.9 out of 10.

Also, i can't "repeat the dose", because I didn't charge them anything, as they are athletes that struggleded to buy their tickets, they don't have an easy life, specially not having sponsors. One of the girls even made cookies and T-shirts to sell to her friends to make a little bit more money to pay for the ticket and the championship application fees.

It ended up that Darryl and I spent much more money than we thought. Unexpected expenses like run and buy a new dishwasher, buy more cookware and dinnerware in a hurry, etc... because we could see how they are worked hard to be here and participate on that championship that is their biggest dream, so we're doing our best to help them achieving that.

Most of the moments I almost freak out is not exactly because of them, but because of my structure not ready to perfectly accomodate so many people at once.

Now with the new dishwasher, and also Darryl and I have been buying more hosehold items every day, according to the needs, we will be better prepared if we have other guests in the future.

Yesterday i was discussing that with Darryl. If I could afford the initial investment, one thing I would LOVE to do is having a "luxury BnB".

Not something silly cheap almost like a hostel for backpackers that don't want to or that can not afford to stay in a regular hotel, but for high end tourists that want an experience more personalized and exclusive than a 5-star hotel. Being ready to accomodate whatever demands they might have, like fancy dinners where they can discuss and personalize every item in the menu, "personal chauffeur" service, Egyptian cotton linen, fancy design furniture, etc.

The best place for that of course would be one of those huge mansions in Beverly Hills or Bel Air. (the neighbors would hate me forever and obviously it is unthinkable in that area.)

But, it's just a dream. Of course I can not afford something that would have an initial cost over $20 mi.


Post# 996130 , Reply# 18   6/4/2018 at 00:58 by Maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
MODERN FRIGIDAIRE

my new apartment came with an Elux-idaire dishwasher, and I love it, nearly as much as I loved my first ever dishwasher, a Maytag WC400, bought new in 1973.

The model label is at an angle that is impossible for me to read from my wheelchair, but there is not a protruding wash tower.


I don't know about my baking pans, because I either use foil or parchment to line them, but I can easily get my largest polypropylene cutting board into it, and it is larger than 13x9 inches.



Stainless steel tank, door, AND sump, quiet-ish, adjustable rinse aid dispenser.....the fact that it has a 2 hour+ "Pots and Pans" cycle, and a 90 minute "energy" cycle..... I do miss a dial. This just has an LED panel. Cleans splendidly!



Lawrence/Maytagbear


Post# 996132 , Reply# 19   6/4/2018 at 04:30 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

The new Kenmore portable arrived Saturday and I'm loving it!

It doesn't have a stainless steel tub or a third rack (useful for tiny things) but it is huge and it performs very well.

The first cycle I ran the pots and pans plus all the options. the cycle took forever and the result was good.

THe 1 hour cycle is obviously much faster and the result was simply great. Everything comes out squeak-clean and it dries very well.

The rinse aid dispenser is adjusted to maximum and I also use Lemi Shine Booster. No film or spots on the glasses and the flatware is now perfectly clean and polished.


Post# 996928 , Reply# 20   6/12/2018 at 02:28 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

Folks, after over 30 loads in the dishwasher and now that the guests are gone (only two left, leaving tomorrow morning) I can calm down a little bit and write about the Kenmore 24 inch Portable dishwasher.

It doesn't have any bells and whistles, 2 racks, 2 spray arms, a manual cleaning filter 3 cycles (pots and pans, normal and 1 hour) and 2 options (high temp and heated dry)

The 1 hour cycle doesn't allow high temp or heated dry.

It was technically the only dishwasher I could fit in my tiny kitchen. Ok, i could have one of those countertop ones that wouldn't help much when i have mountains of dishes to wash like i had the last two weeks or tons of pots and pans, mixer bolws, etc.

I also tend to use much more plates and trays, even when I'm cooking just for Darryl and I. I like to serve "cuisine", so serving straight from the pot is very rare. It means much more to wash.

I can say I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this dishwasher. The racks are not the best in the world, of course, but they are far from being bad.

I don't pre-rinse, except one or other item that is REALLY hasty, like baking trays with burnt on food. I also don't scrape OCD levels.

This dishwasher does what a dishwasher must do. You load it with dirty dishes (very dirty by the way) and after the 1 hour cycle everything is perfectly clean and dry, with one or other water drops.

No food residues, no hard water film, no nothing. This is also the cheapest 24 inch portable dishwasher we could find.
The pots and pans cycle I used only once. it took forever and the result was acceptable but not perfect.

The normal cycle is also super long, it perfromes very well (better than pots and pans maybe?)

The 1 hour cycle is "the" cycle. It's just perfect and only 1 hour.

Noise levels... well we can hear the water, but i ran the dishwasher every day near 1 am with guests sleeping in the living room right next to the kitchen and the dishwasher didn't disturb them. The loudest noise is the water falling in the sink during the drains and the "spray" noise when it's filling. other than that, just that you can barely notice it is running.

And when you remove the top rack, it doesn't "leak" water through the upper spray arm pipe. I still didn't pay much attention to figure out how it "understands" the rack isn't there and closes the pipe, but i can notice much more power on the bottom spray arm.

Oh, and it uses BOTH spray arms at the same time.


Post# 996929 , Reply# 21   6/12/2018 at 02:35 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

I forgot to mention:

I cleaned the filter tonight... well, i just inspected it because i didn't need to clean it.

The only thing there was a tiny bit of roasted pork from yesterday's lunch. No rinse needed, no other residues at all. Considering that I never pre rinse and lots of food ends up going in the dishwasher, it's more than excellent, even not having a self cleaning filter.

And I'm having fantastic results using Cascade (the cheapest version). First i finished a box of powder, then the guests bought a small bag of pods, finally I bought a large bottle of that orange/yellow gel. It performs great and is very cheap.


Post# 996934 , Reply# 22   6/12/2018 at 06:15 by tolivac (greenville nc)        

For a person renting a home that doesn't have a dishwasher-this would be nice.also for single folks like me that don't have a lot of dishes to do.

Post# 996951 , Reply# 23   6/12/2018 at 11:08 by thomasortega (Los Angeles - CA)        

That dishwasher handles A LOT




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