Montgomery Wards Norge and the funky spin

Hi Austin,

FIrst, a thousand thank-yous to you and your mom for the awesome goodies. I swear to God that I have a package for you, but Venus' present wasn't picked up from Flagstaff, so I'll have to have it mailed down...and then on to you.

Second, a thousand additional thank-yous for schematics. This washer is a mystery to me. And without any identifying numbers (and a black-and-chrome control panel that screams "eighties!"), I don't know if it would qualify for Deluxe or Imperial. Methinks it teeters on the brink--it sure isn't a seventies machine.

Anyhow, the brake solenoid works fine, and yes, we think it odd that the agitator exhibits shenanigans when it goes to spin since, as you said, it's a reversing-motor concept (very similar to Maytag's, really).

The partial neutral drain seems to happen when the brake is on. The machine reverses direction and drains, and when the water level switch trips-back, it releases the brake and begins a spin-drain. Obviously, having the agitator going when the water level goes down is fun, but bad for machine and clothing alike :-P

If I hold the agitator during the neutral-drain portion, I can hold it for a second and it will stop fighting me, and will be in neutral-mode thereafter. It'd just be nice if it did that on its own.

But, the neutral drain mechanism is a mystery for me too. I'm guessing there must be something inside the tranny, though...

In any case, thank you VERY much again, and I'll look forward to seeing what you can find.

Thanks!!

--Nate


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Post# 148171 8/12/2006 at 23:20 (6,456 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes Hi all :-) I just acquired a Montgomery Ward-branded Norge with the 20-lb capacity and genuine burpalator action. It's a groovy machine, except that it frequently wants to try and agitate when it goes to spin. Since this machine design is rather alien to us, do any of you know what the culprit might be? Sometimes you can hold the agitator, and it'll make a momentary whizzing sound, and then it will sit neutrally (as it should for the initial neutral drain). If left to its own devices, however, it likes to try and agitate while it's draining, and continues to try and do so until it gets up to speed for the spin. I'm all but positive--based on the design--that something inside the transmission is not "seating" as it should, due to gack/wear/voodoo, but before I tear into it, I'd love any advice and/or pics of the innards of this particular transmission design. I'd love to provide a model and serial, but the tag is obliterated. Hopefully the fact that it seems to follow the Fedders Norge burp-up design will be helpful :-\| Thank you in advance for any light you can shed on this-- Nate

Post# 148173 , Reply# 1 8/12/2006 at 23:32 (6,456 days old) by westytoploader ()
Checkrate/Likes Hi Nate, First of all congrats on your new find, I'm envious!!! This should probably be moved to Imperial, especially since it has a Burpalator...;-) That is too strange that it would try to agitate while spinning, since the motor simply reverses to drain/spin. Do you hear a loud "klunk" after the pressure switch resets during the neutral drain? I'm not sure how the partial neutral drain is achieved, but I think it involves a torque spring of some sort, because the basket starts spinning as soon as the brake solenoid releases. Perhaps that might be the problem? According to the Repair-Master, there were some models during the 60's that actually had two solenoids! One to release the brake, and one to engage the spin. Later on it was narrowed down to one. I'll delve into the manual tonight and see what I can find...will scan some stuff in tomorrow for you! --Austin

Post# 148180 , Reply# 2 8/13/2006 at 01:15 (6,456 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Bap* Hi Austin, FIrst, a thousand thank-yous to you and your mom for the awesome goodies. I swear to God that I have a package for you, but Venus' present wasn't picked up from Flagstaff, so I'll have to have it mailed down...and then on to you. Second, a thousand additional thank-yous for schematics. This washer is a mystery to me. And without any identifying numbers (and a black-and-chrome control panel that screams "eighties!"), I don't know if it would qualify for Deluxe or Imperial. Methinks it teeters on the brink--it sure isn't a seventies machine. Anyhow, the brake solenoid works fine, and yes, we think it odd that the agitator exhibits shenanigans when it goes to spin since, as you said, it's a reversing-motor concept (very similar to Maytag's, really). The partial neutral drain seems to happen when the brake is on. The machine reverses direction and drains, and when the water level switch trips-back, it releases the brake and begins a spin-drain. Obviously, having the agitator going when the water level goes down is fun, but bad for machine and clothing alike :-P If I hold the agitator during the neutral-drain portion, I can hold it for a second and it will stop fighting me, and will be in neutral-mode thereafter. It'd just be nice if it did that on its own. But, the neutral drain mechanism is a mystery for me too. I'm guessing there must be something inside the tranny, though... In any case, thank you VERY much again, and I'll look forward to seeing what you can find. Thanks!! --Nate

Post# 148201 , Reply# 3 8/13/2006 at 10:58 (6,456 days old) by trok_99 ()
Checkrate/Likes *I have used 2 versions of this machine* Both had 1 min timer increments. After agitation there was a 1 min pause, 1 min of forced nuetral drain with the brake latch engaged. During that minute the pressure switch would become unsatisfied and the spray would start while still in neutral. After that minute elapsed the brake latch released and the spray would continue as the machine spin drained, followed by another 2 mins of spin after the spray. Both were 80's vintage. One was a Mont Wards which had a lid switch that stopped everything...even the fill, just like a Maytag The other one was a Magic Chef that stopped the spin only when the lid was raised. It was like a WP/KM belt drive in that it only applied the brake. The pump, motor and timer still were activated.

Post# 148202 , Reply# 4 8/13/2006 at 11:07 (6,456 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)
Checkrate/Likes *Yes...* Yes, trok, that's correct. The spray for the spray rinse begins when the pressure switch is unsatisfied, and wraps-up before it even gets up to speed with the spin-drain (kind of odd, but it works nicely for dodging suds-lock). The latch on the brake releases only when the minute is up. The lid switch only engages the brake by deenergizing the brake solenoid. The motor still runs, so the machine still drains (and sometimes, halfheartedly tries to agitate) when the lid is up during spin.

Post# 148364 , Reply# 5 8/14/2006 at 08:47 (6,455 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
Checkrate/Likes Nate is sounds like the clutch spring inside the tranny is warped or broken. Its going to be a big job to remove and open the tranny and replace it. The Norge Plus Capacity Repair Master has all the info you need to do this. Greg, Don and I found an 1975 or 1976 avacado Wards on the street on Saturday night and dragged it home to play with. To our shock and surprise it worked perfectly with not one hitch.