Thread Number: 76246  /  Tag: Vintage Dishwashers
KA KDI-15 w/Too Much Water @ End of Cycle
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Post# 1000725   7/19/2018 at 06:58 (2,101 days old) by Kenkuhl (Granby, CT)        

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Hello friends,
I have a nice old KDI-15 that we absolutely love! We re-installed it 3 years ago when we purchased it on CraigsList from an estate. It ran beautifully for 2+ years. However, it began to not "finish" with that whirring sound at the end of the last "rinse" cycle. At first, we thought nothing of it but noticed water still standing in the tub and thus the dry cycle was not as effective. It seems that with each "wash/rinse" cycle, the water is not completely emptied. In fact, it seems to build up to where near the end, the tub is full!
Any thoughts out there?



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Post# 1000726 , Reply# 1   7/19/2018 at 07:39 (2,101 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

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I'd check the drain line first of all - there may be a blockage somewhere between the pump and the drain exit.   If that looks OK, it may be a pump problem.  


Post# 1000729 , Reply# 2   7/19/2018 at 08:01 (2,101 days old) by Kenkuhl (Granby, CT)        
KA KDI-15 w/Too Much Water @ End of Cycle

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Thanks, turquoisedude! Is there any way to post a video?

Post# 1000730 , Reply# 3   7/19/2018 at 08:02 (2,101 days old) by Kenkuhl (Granby, CT)        
KA KDI-15 w/Too Much Water @ End of Cycle

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Should the tub empty after each wash-rinse cycle?

Post# 1000731 , Reply# 4   7/19/2018 at 08:12 (2,101 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

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It should.  I don't have a built-in 15-series (mine's a portable) and the machine was very lightly (if ever!) used when I got it so I didn't do any serious exploration of the pump assembly.  I'll defer to the KitchenAid experts for any disassembly of your KDI-15 - I have only ever messed around with a 14 series KitchenAid.  


Post# 1000772 , Reply# 5   7/19/2018 at 19:04 (2,101 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

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Yes. Any KitchenAid Dishwasher will empty completely at the end of a cycle.

The 15-20 (that's the end of my KitchenAid history particularly have a pump model) all water where most of the 10-14 series would be a gravity drain. I have rarely seen pump models. I did own and rebuild a KD2-P which was a portable and had the drain pump.

Strange design but worked.



Post# 1000779 , Reply# 6   7/19/2018 at 19:45 (2,101 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Almost bone dry!

These machines should leave maybe 1/4" of water in the sump and by virtue of the design of the wash arm support, you really cannot see the water because the sump is pretty well obscured by the support itself.

The usual reason for poor draining, as mentioned above is some sort of blockage or a kink in the drain hose. Also, if you installed it with a corrugated drain hose, that hose will severely restrict the free flow of water out of the machine in the time allotted for it to drain.

Another reason is that there may be something stuck in the actual drain solenoid which is located in the center of the front cross member behind the lower panel. You may want to disconnect it and make sure nothing is blocking that line.

This would be a good time to actually replace the drain line from the pump to the solenoid. You can use standard 5/8" automotive heater hose which will fit perfectly. Use the same thing if you feel like replacing the line from the valve to your sink drain.
If you want to test the action and pressure from the machine to rule it all out and maybe point you to the line to the sink, connect a hose from the outlet of the drain valve to empty into a 5 gallon bucket and run a rinse and hold and take note how high the machine fills and the see if there is strong pressure and flow when it drains into the bucket. If there is, then explore the hose to the sink. Hold that hose when it goes to drain because it will fly out of the bucket if you don't.

Since this machine is as old as it is, the drain impeller is probably so worn down that it can no longer pump the water out with the same volume and velocity it had when it was new. That was actually a common problem even when the machines were a few years old. So I would suggest that you inspect its condition and replace it if need be. You DO NOT have to take it out of the machine to inspect it.

Remove the 4 screws that hold the wash arm support in place. The remove the wash impeller by removing the Phillips head screw in the center and note the position of the spring washers under the screw. They should be reinstalled with the curve facing up. Then remove the thick washer with the hollow underneath. Remove the keyed washer and then gently pry the wash impeller up. Be mindful of any shim washers that are underneath it and do not lose any.

Once the wash impeller is removed, you will see a smaller cover with 4 screws holding it in place. Remove them and lift off the cover. Below it will be the drain impeller. There are 4 straight vanes on it and they should be extend out top the end of that impeller and should be approx. 1/4 inch high. If they are worn or damaged, you will need to replace it.

Now, that impeller forms the top half of the shaft seal. The seal kit includes both the drain impeller and the lower portion of the seal that goes into the bottom of the pump housing. Along with some more shim washers.

Is strongly suggest that you download the service manual from the Ephemera files on this site for a more detailed instruction on doing the replacement.

Upon reading them, you may get worried about how many shim washers to use. The rule of thumb is to replace them(if you take them out) in the exact same quantity and position that you found them when disassembling it. They will look almost identical but they vary in thickness as well as diameter so be careful.


I hope this helps.
Keep us posted.


Post# 1001030 , Reply# 7   7/22/2018 at 12:45 (2,098 days old) by Kenkuhl (Granby, CT)        
Too much water at the end of each cycle

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stevet: We have the luxury of watching the water actually being expelled because it empties into an old GE garbage disposal in full view from the sink drain. The action seems explosive until it suddenly stops before that whirring sound which indicates it is nearing the end of the draining process. The hose is the old black factory original hose I believe... I would love to show a video. I may post one on YouTube and let some of the AW.org friends look and listen to the actual activity. Thoughts?

Post# 1001034 , Reply# 8   7/22/2018 at 13:37 (2,098 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
I stick to my guns!

I still think it may be the drain impeller. When there is a full charge of water in the tub, it is easy for the impeller to grab it and force it out. Once it gets down to less water, there is less momentum in the water stream to get pumped out.

Make sure there is nothing kinking the hose and that is has a smooth path to drain. My Mother had a GE machine that the installer had routed over the divider in the cabinet to get the hose to the sink. It slowly developed a kink in it and eventually it did almost the same as yours is doing. It pumped out fine until the last bit of water and I found where the hose had kinked, debris in the water started to collect at the kink and the tub would not drain completely. Removed the kink and it all went back to normal.


Post# 1004315 , Reply# 9   8/21/2018 at 06:45 (2,068 days old) by kenkuhl (Granby, CT)        
Look like it is the impeller!

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I want to thank all of the contributions. They were all valid and worth exploring! It appears after a lot of troubleshooting that broken impeller blades may be the only answer! That's the good news...the bad news is fixing it.
My retired local appliance repair person says it is a big job! If anyone has done this and wants to share their experience I would be interested.
In the meantime, we need to manually empty the basin after the cycle. It is a pain but the KA still does an amazing job!


Post# 1004322 , Reply# 10   8/21/2018 at 07:50 (2,068 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Replacing A Drain Impeller And Seal

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In a KDI-15, is actually pretty easy I always loved working on these machines [ last week I put a motor seal and impeller on a 1974 KDS-17 for a customer on Capitol Hill ]

 

If you bring the DW to me I will be happy to do it, but you should be able to find an older tech there that can do it as well.

 

Good Luck, John L.


Post# 1004347 , Reply# 11   8/21/2018 at 11:54 (2,068 days old) by quincyman (Oldsmar, FL)        
The Filter

Have you pulled the filter out and cleaned it. That was the problem on a machine from that period that I had and it cured the issue.


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