Thread Number: 76367  /  Tag: Vintage Dishwashers
I needed another dishwasher, right??
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Post# 1002032   7/31/2018 at 16:18 (2,067 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

Well, needed or not, I felt compelled to save this 1977 (possibly 78) Frigidaire mobile dishwasher.  I have always been fascinated by the 'whirligig' spray arm on the main spray arm (shades of the 'Silver Shower') and since Phil and I were picking up his fabulous Poppy Red (well, maybe Terra Cotta...) range and refrigerator anyway...  

 

One thing that's puzzling me is that I cannot seem to locate a model number tag.  Not on the inside of the tub, not on the back of the cabinet, not on the dishwasher frame under the front access panel.  I'll try popping that panel at some point for a look-see.  

 

The closest I can get to a model ID  is a DWM44M (a 1978 model) that seems to match the control panel; I am stuck on 1977 'cause Phil's range and fridge are 77 models.   

 

But I digress....  Inside the machine is in decent shape - a little loss of rack finish on some dish supports but no 'rack rot'.  The rack design looks as if this machine could hold a heck of a lot of dishes! 

 

 


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Post# 1002033 , Reply# 1   7/31/2018 at 16:20 (2,067 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

And I just had to try powering it up.  I seem to have better luck with dishwashers than with washers...  

 

The Frigidaire started right up, despite having dried up and sat for a few years.  

 

And it's quiet.  Bonus!  

 





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Post# 1002034 , Reply# 2   7/31/2018 at 16:24 (2,067 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Paul, I'm glad you saved this.  It needed to be saved.  Tis is probably an Imperial, I doubt Custom Deluxe or Custom Imperial.  I've only seen this model in brochures, never in person. 


Post# 1002035 , Reply# 3   7/31/2018 at 16:25 (2,067 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

Yeah, the few I was exposed to were indeed quiet.  Cleaned pretty well too using Pots & Pans triple detergent wash. 


Post# 1002036 , Reply# 4   7/31/2018 at 16:29 (2,067 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

Between the pushbutton options and the dial cycle settings, it looks as if this is a pretty flexible dishwasher. 

 

I love the 'triple wash' option with three distinct detergent sections.  I don't think the  72 Viking (Westinghouse) has this option (although I am sure some Westinghouse models did).   I didn't time the first wash if the Pots and Pans option was selected; I'd have to guess it's a good 10 minutes. I believe the heating element in the tub was on, but I had selected that 'Hot Wash' option.   

 

The Normal wash begins with a 5-minute pre-rinse, then a 7-minute wash.  The Quick Wash time threw me a little, though...  I was getting a little worried after 12 minutes, but I realized that may have been due to the Extra Hot Wash option.  I'd have to guess the cycle pauses until the water gets to a certain temperature when the Extra Hot Wash is chosen.  When I selected the OFF button for that option, I heard the timer click again and the wash ran for another 2 minutes.  Rinses were 7 and 5 minutes for the 1st and 2nd rinse respectively and I actually heard the rinse agent solenoid buzz. 

 

Of course I did notice a slight wet spot on the garage floor after the water test... I'll be doing some more testing tomorrow to see where that may be coming from.   


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Post# 1002037 , Reply# 5   7/31/2018 at 16:30 (2,067 days old) by pulltostart (Mobile, AL)        
Upper Rack

pulltostart's profile picture

Is the rack design a carry over from the earlier years when Frigidaire used the spin tube?

 

Good save, Paul!

 

lawrence


Post# 1002039 , Reply# 6   7/31/2018 at 16:34 (2,067 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

And because I always need a challenge,  there should have been a slide indicator with 'Dirty' and 'Clean' sides here on the panel.  I looks like someone tried to get it out to repair or replace it and tore off the panel...  I will be digging to see if I can somehow scare up the original indicator.  Did I mention I need a challenge?  LOL

 

Maybe the bigger challenge will be what to do with this one.  The colour doesn't match either kitchen.  But it's a Frigidaire.... LOL 


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Post# 1002040 , Reply# 7   7/31/2018 at 16:35 (2,067 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Lawrence, these super upper racks that were common from the inception of the SuperSurge (wash-arm) design.  Obviously they were patterned and enhanced from the 1960 to the end of the spin tube models.  My choir director had a 1965 or 1967 Custom Deluxe of these.  I loved the top rack.  I could get so much in these. 


Post# 1002043 , Reply# 8   7/31/2018 at 16:41 (2,067 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

Paul, a buddy of mine from college--his parents had a lake house outside of Hot Springs, AR and it had the Custom Deluxe model.  That first wash (P&P) was about 15 to 20 minutes long. 

 

I knew of some Westinghouse & White Westinghouse models have a triple detergent wash sequence. 


Post# 1002046 , Reply# 9   7/31/2018 at 16:52 (2,067 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

Paul, the "library" has a 1978 dishwasher/compactor/disposer brochure I downloaded 8/17/2012. 


Post# 1002050 , Reply# 10   7/31/2018 at 17:28 (2,067 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

Bob,  I have that brochure also.  It's where I got my 'best guess' model number from... LOL 

 

That upper rack is definitely familar from those first Super Surge wash systems.  I am going to have to do some more digging to find a model number.  Dang it that my Frigidaire books are all down in Ogden.... 


Post# 1002051 , Reply# 11   7/31/2018 at 17:37 (2,067 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Frigidaire DW!

peteski50's profile picture
My Aunt had a early 70s DW but the basic model with only regular and short wash! It cleaned dishes decently but was by no means the quality of a power clean clean or compared to other top notch DW's was not the best but was decent at cleaning. But was superior was the capacity! You can get tons of stuff in it. The top rack held wine glasses and cups beautifully! Even though it had a tower in the middle it never seemed to get in the way! It was one of my favorite loading dw's!





Post# 1002054 , Reply# 12   7/31/2018 at 18:03 (2,067 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture
I didn't notice this model had a 150° wash option. I hope you'll be able to locate the missing button.

I am also thrilled with the other 1977 kitchen appliances I got with you that day! I haven't tried the range yet but the fridge works fine and it's in nice shape.



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Post# 1002055 , Reply# 13   7/31/2018 at 18:06 (2,067 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

Phil & Paul, did all these appliances come from the same house?


Post# 1002056 , Reply# 14   7/31/2018 at 18:07 (2,067 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
@PhilR

ozzie908's profile picture
What a lovely colour that stove is !

The best we had was harvest brown in the 70's no cool colours like you guys find.....


Post# 1002066 , Reply# 15   7/31/2018 at 19:24 (2,067 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture
Bob, the appliances came from the same family (who used to sell Frigidaire appliances) and at some point they had been in the same house but Paul's dishwasher was now in another house.



Poppy was a relatively popular color with many brands here in Canada but Frigidaire appliances from the 1970's are very rare as they weren't widely distributed and just for a few years around 1976-79. I've seen just two post-1970 GM Frigidaire ranges in Canada since I search for and collect appliances and the one I just bought was the first self-cleaning (the other one was a plain white non self-cleaning range). We just had 30" Custom Deluxe ranges with the tall consoles from the mid-late 1970s in various self-cleaning and non-self cleaning versions. This one was the second from top-of-the-line available here which was almost the same but with a ceramatop instead of Radiantubes. And while the ceramatop was a bit more expensive, it lacked the thermostatic burner that this version has. And the early white ceramatops were also a pain to keep clean if you used them!
I got a few more self-cleaning Frigidaire ranges from the early 1970s but I bought those in the USA.


Post# 1002070 , Reply# 16   7/31/2018 at 19:49 (2,067 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

Phil, I noted immediately it was a self-cleaner and I was very happy for ya.   


Post# 1002074 , Reply# 17   7/31/2018 at 20:03 (2,067 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        
Even though you are my arch nemesis

bajaespuma's profile picture

If they ever invent a High Efficiency time machine, I'm coming up to Ogden, kidnapping you and taking you to see the GM building in NYC circa 1971 when some of this fabulous Poppyness was displayed in the grand mezzanine overlooking the Plaza Hotel and Central Park. It was a glorious experience.


Post# 1002081 , Reply# 18   7/31/2018 at 20:59 (2,067 days old) by steved (Guilderland, New York)        
The model # is

DWM-44B. The Tech-Talk for this model was issued in Feb 1978 and I believe these models were the final GM dishwashers produced. Pics courtesy of PhilR - Phil I still have your brochure to return!
Look for the model tag in 2 different places: On the right corner of the rear panel, and behind the lower front panel. As per the Tech-Talk.


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Post# 1002100 , Reply# 19   8/1/2018 at 04:25 (2,067 days old) by potatochips ( )        

Wow! Such a great thread already. Thanks for sharing this Paul, and congrats. I really like this machine, nice find!


Post# 1002103 , Reply# 20   8/1/2018 at 05:49 (2,067 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        
"The Master Cylinders"

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Is that range really supposed to have those screw-in fuses?

Did a lot of, or all of, electric stoves have 'em?

I've just never seen many opened up to reveal them, even here...



-- Dave


Post# 1002106 , Reply# 21   8/1/2018 at 06:28 (2,067 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

Dave, only electric ranges made in Canada had fuses for all electrical components (range elements and electrical outlets) - it was a product safety requirement that endured until the 90s. 

 

At least the 77 Frigidaire range of Phil's had them in a convenient spot - the 57 Super model I learned to cook on had a fuse panel at the rear of the stove, behind the storage drawer!


Post# 1002120 , Reply# 22   8/1/2018 at 08:38 (2,067 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Thank you--and that's what I have figured from what I have read here...

However, there just so happened to be a "Product of General Motors ____(Insert)___" that I believe threw me off...

As for the DW, make sure you are able to pound out that dent in the control panel, if not find a scrap one where the control panel is actually good, and enjoy it in the greatest of health, even if it does't match the rest of your kitchen compadres (or are able to find/acquire suitable matches) in that last run of Harvest Gold...



-- Dave


Post# 1002139 , Reply# 23   8/1/2018 at 11:38 (2,066 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture
The fuses were on ranges made in/or for Canada.

In this case, the range was made for Canada but in Dayton Ohio.

Most appliances were the same for Canada and the US but the ranges, cooking tops, wall ovens and clothes dryers had to be built to meet different codes. When Frigidaire products began to be distributed in Canada again around 1976, they were required to have the CSA approval. Back in the 1960s and even before, some US-made appliances were already imported and approved by the CSA. That's the case for my 1959 Frost-Proof refrigerator and my 1960 Frost-Proof freezer which were made in Dayton. By the late 1960s, more appliances were imported from the States but the ranges and washers/dryers were still made in Canada, some washers and dishwashers were also still made here as well as built-ins.
Before 1971, Frigidaire made ranges for the Canadian market in their Canadian plants. The last one in Scarborough Ontario gradually switched to automotive parts production in the 1960s and in 1970 they stopped making appliances. Apparently, GM was trying to avoid tariffs on the Frigidaire appliances that were imported here through the Auto Pact deal as they were made in an auto factory.

That didn't work so they stopped to sell appliances and they kept distributing the parts through Delco Canada. About 5 years later, a company named Elitech who also distributed Indesit appliances and Eureka vacuum cleaners started to distribute Frigidaire appliances again but they were expensive and not widely distributed as they were back in the 1960s or after WCI bought Frigidaire from GM.


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Post# 1002148 , Reply# 24   8/1/2018 at 13:32 (2,066 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        
And now back to the dishwasher...

turquoisedude's profile picture

A model number has been found (thanks, Steve!) and it has to be the 1978 model.

 

Sorry for the blurry picture but it is a DWM44 B.  Note the CSA stamp - added at the factory in Dayton, no doubt.

Now, let's see if I can find the drip I observed yesterday. 


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Post# 1002163 , Reply# 25   8/1/2018 at 16:34 (2,066 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        
Further discoveries...

turquoisedude's profile picture

I did a little more playing/exploring this afternoon trying to locate the source of the drip observed yesterday; it seems to be coming from the left rear corner of the machine but I still have not isolated the source.  My gut feeling is a seal or gasket between the tub and pump (however we all know how trustworthy my gut is...LOL).

Today's water test was done during that Pots & Pans Triple Wash phase of the cycle - that ran 25 minutes! The heating element was on for at least part of the cycle, which makes sense to me. I had not selected the Extra Hot Wash option this time around.

During my tests I drained the dishwasher into a bouquet; the drain hose was submerged. When I tried testing the Rinse and Hold cycle, I was surprised that the machine drew water from the bucket back into the dishwasher.  The suds-saver option, perhaps??  Under normal circumstances, the hose would be fastened to the faucet and well above a sink bowl so I cannot imagine this happened often.

Ah yes, that Rinse and Hold cycle... the option to select this seems to simply force the unheated dry option.  If one wanted to, the machine could run any cycle simply by setting the timer dial where one wanted. I suspect the instructions suggested dialling to the Rinse section of the dial.  

I have got to find the Tech-Talk for this model!! But after I mess with the 55 Norge washer again...


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Post# 1002167 , Reply# 26   8/1/2018 at 16:56 (2,066 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

Oh my!!  Glad I was nearly correct about the length of the Initial Pots & Pans wash phase.  And doesn't surprise me the heating element was on during that phase.  On the 1980 D&M Kemnore that came with my 1980 house, the only time the main wash water would get warm (from a cold fill before water heater was lit),  was when I pushed the P&P button.  That would slow the timer down to extend the main wash to about 30 or 35 minutes and the heater would be on the whole phase. 


Post# 1002292 , Reply# 27   8/2/2018 at 13:45 (2,065 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture
I just noticed that the color Poppy/Terracotta was just available on the Custom Imperial dishwashers on Steve's document while it was apparently also available on the Imperial on the other document I posted above (photo 3 of 4, "price list").

Strangely, on clothes washers/dryers, Poppy/terracotta was available only on the Custom Deluxe and Gold Crown models. You couldn't get it on the Imperial and Custom Imperial models.

And I just found these documents while searching for something else. I don't have the instruction manual for the exact model I have but I have it for the similar Ceramatop model. It looks like Terracotta was discontinued and Almond was newly available when they printed it.

I connected it to 115 volts outlet and I was happy to see that the clock still works! You can see the pilot light location for the burners of the Canadian model on both the promotional document shown on the picture #2 and on the control panel of my range on picture # 5.


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Post# 1002309 , Reply# 28   8/2/2018 at 16:29 (2,065 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

After Poppy color came out, I was pretty miffed at Frigidaire for limiting it to only certain models in each product line. 


Post# 1002326 , Reply# 29   8/2/2018 at 18:24 (2,065 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
Interesting find, Paul. Until Robert found a 70's Montgomery Ward version, I had never used one. I'd need to fly Bob up here to teach me to load that top rack, it's a different arrangement for sure.

Tawny Gold Imperial would make a great drag name, if you need one.


Post# 1002335 , Reply# 30   8/2/2018 at 19:19 (2,065 days old) by Pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

pierreandreply4's profile picture
lol turquoisedude looks like you have the famous Roseanne poppy fridge

Post# 1002343 , Reply# 31   8/2/2018 at 20:07 (2,065 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Range brochure!

peteski50's profile picture
That's a nice brochure - I wish it was in English!


Post# 1002996 , Reply# 32   8/8/2018 at 17:04 (2,059 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        
Further tests of the 'new' Frigidaire dishwasher

turquoisedude's profile picture

I've been in St-Lib this week so I thought I'd do some further tinkering with my new toy, that 78 Frigidaire Imperial dishwasher. 

My first goal was to try to find where the drip I had observed in the first 2 tests might be coming from. I set the machine up on a couple of boards to see if I could observe anything, with the help of my phone camera.  I ran it through a full 'pots and pans' cycle.  Amazingly, no drips or drops were observed! Perhaps the dribbles were due to a dried up seal somewhere... I was pretty happy needless to say.


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Post# 1002997 , Reply# 33   8/8/2018 at 17:08 (2,059 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

Congratulations Paul!!!


Post# 1002999 , Reply# 34   8/8/2018 at 17:15 (2,059 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

However....

Yes there always seems to be a catch with my vintage goodies...  I had selected the 'Extra Hot Wash Temp' option to see how it behaved in a full cycle test.  The timer paused and the dishwasher heated up the water - 'cept it didn't seem to want to stop heating...  

I stopped the machine after 30 minutes and hit the off button for the Extra Hot Wash option. The timer started up again and drained, like what happened in a previous test. But that water was hot!!  Hotter than the James Sweepflow claim of being able to sterilize labware.

So after the cycle ended I thought I had a problem with a high-limit thermostat (like that built-in Kenmore Roto-Rack did).  Trouble is, I didn't see a thermostat in the wash tub.

Would there have been one or just some kind of a cycle extender switch?

I am eagerly searching for some service literature for this dishwasher...

Oh, Phil???


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Post# 1003001 , Reply# 35   8/8/2018 at 17:25 (2,059 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Check the wiring diagram for a thermostat?


Post# 1003002 , Reply# 36   8/8/2018 at 17:30 (2,059 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

I don't have one.... I'm going to crack the door panel to see if there may be something tucked in to the timer box like the good folks at Maytag used to do.

 


Post# 1003037 , Reply# 37   8/8/2018 at 21:11 (2,059 days old) by Steved (Guilderland, New York)        
Thermo

I think it’s on the inner door panel. I’ll check the manual for sure tomorrow

Post# 1003157 , Reply# 38   8/9/2018 at 22:31 (2,058 days old) by Steved (Guilderland, New York)        
Nope

Sorry I’m wrong. It’s on the tub bottom near the pump. Plus here’s a schematic

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Post# 1003169 , Reply# 39   8/10/2018 at 05:56 (2,058 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

Thank you Steve!!  I didn't do any further exploration on the dishwasher yesterday - I was called to help clear out a friend's mother's house following her move to a senior's residence.  49 years worth of stuff accumulated and I took one carload so far.... LOL 


Post# 1003202 , Reply# 40   8/10/2018 at 14:12 (2,057 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture
It was in the inner door panel on the earlier metal door models like my 1969. Mine also took forever to heat up the water. I tried that feature just once! But eventually it did reach the temperature and the timer resumed.

Post# 1003203 , Reply# 41   8/10/2018 at 16:32 (2,057 days old) by appnut (TX)        
took forever to heat up the water

appnut's profile picture

With such an extended detergent wash, imagine the possibilities of downright grimy BobLoads you could challenge that dishwasher with. To me, that's a lot of the fun--see just how much I can get in there as well as will it all come clean.  Man against machine!!!


Post# 1003289 , Reply# 42   8/11/2018 at 10:41 (2,056 days old) by pulltostart (Mobile, AL)        
Uh-Oh

pulltostart's profile picture

I sense the birth of a new term!

 

When the dishwasher is not only PACKED, but you're dealing with (in Bob's own words) "grimy" dishes - what are you dealing with?

 

Why, a BobJob, of course!

 

lawrence


Post# 1003298 , Reply# 43   8/11/2018 at 11:48 (2,056 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

Lawrence, hilarious!!!  Reminds me of the cleaner Top Job. 


Post# 1003421 , Reply# 44   8/12/2018 at 12:33 (2,055 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Well

jetcone's profile picture
I do know of an Elite Model that was made in Poppy.......Its not Imperial nor Custom Imperial so no aberration there!!

Post# 1003657 , Reply# 45   8/14/2018 at 10:32 (2,053 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

I'm in St-Lib today, so naturally I am messing with the "new" Frigidaire dishwasher instead of doing anything practical like housework, yardwork, or laundry... LOL 

Thanks to Steve's info, I located and extracted the water temp hi-limit thermostat. I don't have the original Frigidaire part number but I think (bad things can happen when I do that...LOL) the thermostat is a Therm-O-Disc 36TR12.

Amazingly, I am finding similar items but I am getting confused with the specs for the newer ones.

It seems they are made by Emerson now and the suggested application is in a pellet stove; high limit seems to be 120 degrees Fahrenheit.  I have seen others for dishwashers with a 200 degree cut-off.

Has anyone here replaced an old dishwasher thermostat recently and if so, what did you use?


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Post# 1003686 , Reply# 46   8/14/2018 at 15:10 (2,053 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

As the thermostat was out, PhilR suggested I test it.  It's not elegant, but I heated water and dipped the thermostat into the hot water and checked with the VOM.  I got it to work, but I didn't know just how hot the water was.  Meanwhile, SteveD in Guilderland suggested cleaning the spot where the thermostat contacts the tub. I did and then re-installed the thermostat.

So, looks like I am going to have to haul this one into the kitchen for a real test...LOL    Any howls you heard won't be from Canyon!


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Post# 1003737 , Reply# 47   8/15/2018 at 01:16 (2,053 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA)        

Paul, could you redo your test and use a candy thermo to test the opening temp?


Post# 1003767 , Reply# 48   8/15/2018 at 10:08 (2,052 days old) by PhilR (Quebec Canada)        

philr's profile picture
Tom has a great suggestion!



Post# 1003851 , Reply# 49   8/16/2018 at 11:20 (2,051 days old) by jeff_adelphi (Adelphi, Maryland, USA)        


jeff_adelphi's profile picture

Looks like your thermostat has F145 stamped on it, 145 would be the temp, and the F is for "fan",  this thermostat's contacts close when the temp is reached.  Many of these thermostats have an L for limit on them, on those the contacts open when the temp is reached. It's a fairly common thermostat used in many heaters and small appliances.


Post# 1005264 , Reply# 50   8/28/2018 at 17:48 (2,039 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA)        

Paul, have you given up on this great DW?


Post# 1005276 , Reply# 51   8/28/2018 at 18:28 (2,039 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture

Certainly not!  I finally remembered to bring my candy thermometer from the kitchen in Ogden back to the house in St-Lib so I can test that thermostat again.  I'm actually itching to try this machine out with a true BobLoad!!


Post# 1005279 , Reply# 52   8/28/2018 at 19:14 (2,039 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

Oh my!!!!


Post# 1005632 , Reply# 53   8/31/2018 at 18:54 (2,036 days old) by potatochips ( )        

I had the same issue with a Whirlpool machine and the thermostat. I ended up setting my meter on continuity, and blowing a hair dryer on the thermostat with a meat thermometer stuck on the stat, I had a few of them and it seems the ones set to 140F usually close contact at 120F or so. 



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