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Thread Number: 76388
/ Tag: Detergents and Additives
new product for laundy |
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| Post# 1002307 8/2/2018 at 16:24 (2,087 days old) by Pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada) | ||
hello to all aw members just discovered a new product made by Lysol that go in the fabric softner dispenser if washer a front load or in rinse water its Lysol sanitizer for laundry read the label in store seem like a good product but do not know much about this product
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Post# 1002328 , Reply# 2 8/2/2018 at 18:56 (2,087 days old) by cuffs054  (MONTICELLO, GA) |
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I tried it. The instructions call for a cold rinse (no problem), but 20 minutes of cycle time. | ||
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Post# 1002349 , Reply# 3 8/2/2018 at 20:33 (2,087 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Nothing about the product nor concept is new.
We've discussed Lysol's version of laundry sanitizer a while back when it first was introduced.
It joins a long list of "hygiene" laundry rinse aids including Persil, Sagrotan, Dettol and others. Those are just on the domestic consumer end, commercial/industrial laundries long have had their own. These are all quat based sanitizers mostly intended for laundry that cannot or was not laundered with high temperatures, use of bleach (oxygen or chlorine), and thus for "protection" from *germs* should be treated with said products. In Europe and else where such products have been around longer for domestic use the prime target consumer was women. Specifically their undergarments (which often today are made from mad made textiles in whole or part), that cannot withstand high temperatures and or heavy bleaching. After a bout of certain lady's "illnesses" it was advised (mostly by product makers, but sometimes personal physician) to use these hygiene rinses. Male equal would be athlete's foot and socks. All this being said, as one has repeatedly pointed out such hygiene products are not necessary for normal laundry routines. Cases of illness transmitted via contact or whatever from textiles (freshly laundered or otherwise) are rather few. Well suppose if one wrapped themselves up in blanket taken from a smallpox suffer that *might* be different. There are more things growing on every day surfaces people come into far more contact than laundry. From computer keyboard, to toilet seats, to shower curtain/glass enclosures. Yet few if anyone bother about such things. For nearly all purposes merely washing clothing, then drying (especially) in tumble dryer reduces any germs or whatever to low enough levels. Ironing with a hot iron instead of and or in addition to tumble drying reduces those counts even more. CLICK HERE TO GO TO Launderess's LINK | ||
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Post# 1002434 , Reply# 4 8/3/2018 at 15:16 (2,086 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area) |
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Quat based sanitizers are also usually effective fungicides. These would be useful if you let your wet clothes or linens set too long, and they developed mildew or mold. | ||
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Post# 1002467 , Reply# 5 8/3/2018 at 21:54 (2,086 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio) |
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This isn't new. It has been discussed quite a bit on ths.gardenweb. As mentioned above, it requires 20 minutes of contact and cannot be mixed with detergent. | ||
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Post# 1002685 , Reply# 8 8/6/2018 at 07:16 (2,083 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Product contains: Quaternary ammonium compounds, di-C8-10-alkyldimethyl, chlorides.
Neither are substances one would want to come into contact with one's skin; especially after bathing and drying off with a towel treated with Lysol sanitizer. However that is exactly what will happen given the large dosage of product required per rinse cycle. There is bound to be residue since it goes into final rinse. A quick glance at Amazon.com reviews turns up a few cases of dermatitis or other skin issues after using product. www.amazon.com/Lysol-Laun... Post WWII germs replaced Germans as the enemy for Allied housewives. Suddenly things no longer just had to be clean, there was this huge effort to get housewives to protect all they hold near and dear. Much of this was in form of various products that killed "germs". Sanitizing ones home is one thing, but there is such a thing as going too far. The pan, bathroom and kitchen surfaces ok, one can see there. But laundry just isn't a vector of germs that many seem to believe. If one has a desire to go down that road then you want plenty of hot to boiling water, alkaline detergents/soaps and some sort of bleach. | ||
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Post# 1002751 , Reply# 10 8/6/2018 at 17:00 (2,083 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area) |
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When I used such a product (GFS Array Quat-Clean) on laundry, I added it to water in the laundry tub, and soaked my soured/mildewed washcloths & towels. I then put them in the washer and rinsed, then ran through a normal cycle before drying. No more nasty moldy smell! | ||
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Post# 1002754 , Reply# 11 8/6/2018 at 17:37 (2,083 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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"Does Lysol recommend a rinse after using this product"
No, it goes in final rinse cycle on its own; no FS or anything else. "No more nasty moldy smell! " On occasion have bath linens (hand, face or even body towels) that get a whiff due to prolonged dampness. One wash in either the Miele or AEG at 120F with either a detergent containing oxygen bleach, or added on its own, and problem is solved. | ||
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Post# 1002795 , Reply# 12 8/7/2018 at 03:23 (2,082 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Tom, those laundry sanitizers do not reduce absorbancy of towels at all although they do form droplets on the door glass of a FL just like FS does.
Unlike FS the active ingredient of sanitizers has more surfactancy or detergency, but both are classified cationic surfactants or quats. I`m no chemist but I think the oil loving part of those quats used in sanitizers must be much less powerful or pronounced than those used in fabric softener. Maybe someone with more insight can explain it in a better way. Since both products go into the last rinse and have a similar pH (sour) some manufacturers of laundry sanitizers say it`s OK to mix it with FS if the dipenser is large enough. Personally I don`t like those sanitizers and consider them only as a last resort. If boilwashing isn`t possible I`d rather go with one of those H2O2 based mild bleaches which are even suitable for wool and silk to reduce germs further than normal washing would if that is the goal. | ||
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Post# 1002803 , Reply# 13 8/7/2018 at 05:27 (2,082 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Requies a sixteen minute contact time.
What modern washing machine (or old for that matter) has a final rinse cycle nearly twenty minutes long?
www.houzz.com/discussions... Also if you read above posts and elsewhere, plenty of persons are using this product incorrectly. Quat sanitizers cannot come into contact with detergents and other cleaning chemicals, it will simply deactivate the product. Also quat based sanitizers are for the "last mile" if you will; that is after a surface, laundry has been cleaned/washed and rinsed, *then* one applies a quat solution (in proper ratio), and allow it to remain in contact for required time. Presence of soils, organic matter and or even large enough "germ" colonies will simply overwhelm and or deactivate quat based sanitizers. | ||
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Post# 1002853 , Reply# 15 8/7/2018 at 16:48 (2,082 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area) |
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Launderess, I had tried washing them in detergent & hot water, and soaking in Borax to no avail before resorting to the Quat-Clean. | ||
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Post# 1002857 , Reply# 16 8/7/2018 at 17:22 (2,082 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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When I was still a practicing, licensed Cosmetologist in the State of California we used Quaternary Ammonium Compound, or “Quats” for sanitizing combs and brushes. The concentration of the solution was required to be 1000 parts per million and we were required to wash the implements prior to submerging them in the sanitizer, usually by soaking them first in a solution of Spic and Span and hot water. Then they needed to remain in the Quats solution for 10 mins. before they were considered to be sanitized. They were the rinsed, and allowed to dry on clean towels before the next use.
And if the State Board inspector made a surprise visit, this was one of the quesitons you could count on being asked. Eddie | ||
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Post# 1003178 , Reply# 18 8/10/2018 at 08:56 (2,079 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Using such products in a prewash cycle is kind of pointless because clothes have to be clean (more or less free of organic matter) to make them work effectively.
On a front loader you could use the rinse hold option to get a longer contact time and then follow with another rinse if someone is afraid of chemical residue. | ||
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Post# 1003272 , Reply# 20 8/11/2018 at 08:07 (2,078 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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According to Bauknecht (Whirlpool) an average adult secretes up to 40 grams of sebum and dead skin cells per day !
Another source mentions 1,3 % dry weight of a medium soiled load is dirt. Maybe this could be considered not a lot of organic matter compared to what unrealistic detergent commercials have brainwashed us to believe what a heavily soiled load might look like. And maybe it doesn`t matter because most consumers just use those sanitizers to feel good about themselves and not to really disinfect any dangerous germs. But there is another problem that could arise if you use such products in the prewash. Detergents used in the subsequent mainwash usually contain anionic sufactants. Benzylalkoniumchlorid and the like from the sanitizer are cationic surfactants. The two should not be mixed toghether because they might cancel each other out or even form insoluble deposits. So if you don`t want to lose too much potency of your detergent you should at least give the load a high speed spin after a prewash with disinfectant to keep carry over at a minimum. | ||
| Post# 1003291 , Reply# 28 8/11/2018 at 10:53 (2,078 days old) by liamy1 (-) | ||
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Sorry Just read your reply again, so it does have a scent. Still odd that it’s smelling acidy though. Wonder if it’s a reaction to the water, or the dyes in the fabric etc? | ||
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Post# 1003347 , Reply# 30 8/11/2018 at 18:22 (2,078 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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IIRC The WI Washers Sold In USA | ||
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Post# 1003350 , Reply# 31 8/11/2018 at 18:37 (2,078 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Leave be clear about something.
This quat product by Lysol similar to others is a "sanitizer", not a disinfectant. The two are totally different both in performance (germ, fungus, etc...) ability and other areas.
Very broadly and basically sanitizers will get one to the last mile in reducing "germs". That is after something has been cleaned and or gross filth, organic matter, or whatever has been largely removed and "germ" levels reduced, sanitizers will take things down a notch further. Quat based sanitizers are highly affected by organic soil matter. This is why they are used *after* something has been cleaned. Thus putting this Lysol or whatever sanitizer in pre-wash, wash or anything else but final rinse is pointless. You might as well just pour the bottle down drain. Even laundries that process healthcare or whatever *contaminated* linens do not subject them to hot water and or any sort of disinfection first. Rather that process happens (thermal and or chemical) one or several cycles later after flushing, pre-washing and even one or more wash cycles. This would have reduced soil, gross filth and by extension flushed down the drain large number of "germs". Those remaining can be now dealt with by whatever means. www.sciencedirect.com/top... | ||
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Post# 1003385 , Reply# 33 8/12/2018 at 03:54 (2,077 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Yes , if one can manage it
Refilling an empty TwinDos container is doable. However in Europe and elsewhere Miele sells empty containers meant to be filled with whatever products one wishes.
It is those canisters (IIRC) Miele is not sending to North America. blackwellanddenton.com/product/m... Notice they are absent: www.mieleusa.com/domestic... | ||
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Post# 1003403 , Reply# 36 8/12/2018 at 08:28 (2,077 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Since North American Owners Of W1 Washers
Already can use any sort of detergent they wish via dispenser drawer, there are only a handful of possible reasons not to allow refillable canisters.
One is the obvious, to lock persons into spending $18/ea. USD for a new detergent or bleach cartridge. The other is Miele simply doesn't want to risk their precious dispenser system to the vast and bewildering array of products on USA detergent market. Sort of far fetched but there you are then. Would be interesting to see if anyone from USA does get their mitts on the refillable canisters from Europe, and found they did not fit or work with the USA machine. That would be telling in of itself. Suppose only way to find out is contacting Miele USA and asking. | ||
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Post# 1003454 , Reply# 38 8/12/2018 at 21:55 (2,077 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Yes, but however
One is more than unusually certain laundry detergents in Europe have long by now sorted the "HE" aspect of things.
Meanwhile here in USA things can be rather uneven. Did a small load of dress shirts the other day in Miele using barely 15ml of Cheer "stay colourful" liquid. Can you say froth? After four rinses and before final added some defoamer to kick things down so could get on with things. Have still not figured out how detergents here can say "HE" but show both huge top and front loading washing machines. Is one to believe both machines use equal amounts of water for washing? | ||
| Post# 1003521 , Reply# 43 8/13/2018 at 14:11 (2,076 days old) by Aquarius1984 (Planet earth) | ||
HAbd wash andvtwin tub 
I’ve recently turned 34 (shocking) and even I recall every supermarket own label having a twin tub powder until the very late 90s at least.
Branded powders in TT and HW formula were also made by: Surf - I’ve an empty box circa 2006 in lemon fresh. Daz Persil Ariel Fairy Plus there was a few off beat brands such as All Brite, Q-Matic etc. Bold and Radion never did TT HW versions though. | ||
| Post# 1003544 , Reply# 45 8/13/2018 at 16:39 (2,076 days old) by Aquarius1984 (Planet earth) | ||
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Radion
When it first came out was actually positioned higher than persil.
It contained couple of extra ingredients aimed at odour removal and freshness. Levers Persil was marketed as a family product - think Mumsy, Persil only washed whiter. It did combat some stains but it was still a family safe powder for all temperatures. Yet Ariel was always very scientific especially with its odour removal claims and biological formula in cool washes. Lever couldn’t afford to ditch persils mumsy market but it had failed in the scientific biological area with the new system flop. So the reason Radion was born was to tap into the biological science market and compete with Ariel. Radions formula for the first few years was top notch, think Persil on steroids. The reason it flopped was that it never quite took hold of Ariels market so one assumes it was too costly to make mass produced top notch detergent when Persil dominated Levers corner there. It was dropped to the same formula as Surf and given the sun fresh scent and it carried in as a discount brand until it was deemed viable to merge it into Surf | ||
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Post# 1004032 , Reply# 49 8/18/2018 at 15:19 (2,071 days old) by logixx (Germany) |
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Miele now also advertise Sensitive UltraPhase 1/2 without color and scent.
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Post# 1004054 , Reply# 50 8/18/2018 at 18:58 (2,071 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Sensitive UltraPhase
A scent free detergent for colors! Now that's for me!
Have never quite understood why there are few to nil offerings across the EU of TOL scent/dye free laundry detergents. Persil "sensitive" at one time was scent free (but has OBAs and bleaching agents), until some fool decided the thing was better off with scent. Persil gel for colors (German Henkel) simply leaves too powerful a scent; it clashes with Ma Griffe. | ||
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Post# 1004061 , Reply# 52 8/18/2018 at 20:43 (2,071 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Yes, have seen the Neutral line | ||
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Post# 1004071 , Reply# 53 8/18/2018 at 23:08 (2,071 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 1004073 , Reply# 54 8/18/2018 at 23:11 (2,071 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 1004080 , Reply# 55 8/18/2018 at 23:35 (2,071 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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"Also Sold By Amazon UK" | ||
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Post# 1004083 , Reply# 56 8/19/2018 at 00:34 (2,071 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 1004085 , Reply# 57 8/19/2018 at 01:13 (2,070 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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No Worries
Wasn't seriously going to order Neutral anyway. Tide Free and Gentle and or Tide Coldwater Free are good enough for 99.9% of my unscented/dye free needs.
For colors have commercial laundry powder from Germany, and then there is always Persil Gel. If Miele has UltraPhase in an unscented/dye free version it is bound to reach this side of pond sooner or later now that the W1 with TwinDos is being sold. | ||
| Post# 1004091 , Reply# 58 8/19/2018 at 04:46 (2,070 days old) by MrAlex (London, UK) | ||
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Post# 1004110 , Reply# 62 8/19/2018 at 08:47 (2,070 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 1004112 , Reply# 63 8/19/2018 at 09:41 (2,070 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK) |
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Does the scent from the powder
Last after the rinses ?
Having been a Persil non bio fan for years because it had more bleach content thus was ideal for whites of which I wash a lot of. I was informed that they have messed with the formula again and put less bleach and its now the same as the bio version so as it was on offer I bought a box of bio persil and add a scoop or 2 of Sodium Percobonate and yes its coming out nice and white but there is little to no scent when the machine finishes I tend to use a little Lenor in the wash I like the scent of the gold one. Austin | ||
| Post# 1004115 , Reply# 65 8/19/2018 at 09:57 (2,070 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.) | ||
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"Waitrose products ALWAYS do so badly..." Hmm, I wonder who makes Waitrose's detergents? | ||
| Post# 1004118 , Reply# 67 8/19/2018 at 10:12 (2,070 days old) by liamy1 (-) | ||
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Formil is a great detergent, but it really has a ghastly sce Yes it does! I have some in the stash (new as well, ie from the last week). I don’t care for the scent at all. | ||
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Post# 1004368 , Reply# 73 8/21/2018 at 16:04 (2,068 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Celluclean technology
Has been around for some time now, and sounds pretty much like a new use for celluase enzymes which have been in some laundry detergents for yonks.
www.novozymes.com/en/news... patents.google.com/patent/US2017... | ||
| Post# 1004371 , Reply# 74 8/21/2018 at 16:11 (2,068 days old) by MrAlex (London, UK) | ||
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I bought Amazon’s own liquid detergent called “Presto! Universal” it’s been great so far, it’s got a six enzyme formula. There’s also pods/pacs, powders all with “universal” “colour” and of course since it’s uk “sensitive - non-bio”
CLICK HERE TO GO TO MrAlex's LINK | ||
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Post# 1004390 , Reply# 75 8/21/2018 at 18:23 (2,068 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Henkel's Persil
Has been flogging their "anti-grey" formula for some time now; so guess Unilever is playing catch up.
Indeed not all versions of TOL P&G detergents (Tide, Ariel, etc...) contain cellulase enzyme formulas. Whereas nearly all German Persil formulas (maybe some exceptions?) seem to do, even the new American version. | ||
| Post# 1004459 , Reply# 77 8/22/2018 at 06:34 (2,067 days old) by MrAlex (London, UK) | ||
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liamy1 - I've never tried Asda's or Morissons detergents, but on the back of the detergent it says "produced in the EU for Amazon Luxemburg"
I've attached the link to the "list of ingredients" CLICK HERE TO GO TO MrAlex's LINK | ||
| Post# 1004948 , Reply# 79 8/26/2018 at 13:01 (2,063 days old) by liberatordeluxe (UK) | ||
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Doesn't oxygen based bleaching agents disinfect and kill bacteria anyway? So this is another add on product that is not needed. | ||
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Post# 1004961 , Reply# 80 8/26/2018 at 15:41 (2,063 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Hydrogen peroxide i
Perhaps not in true sense of word but yes, oxygen bleaches can reduce germs and or mildew/mold counts.
But then there is always Ariel.... pgpro.co.uk/pg_product/ariel-pro... | ||
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