Thread Number: 8909
How well does Denim handle in your Pulsators..full load
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Post# 166971   11/12/2006 at 05:25 (6,345 days old) by agiflow ()        

We know how great the pulsator action is with a towel load...but come on guys..not trying to be an ass....do these machines wash heavier denim and cottons ...capacity for equivalent capacity given say the mid fifties to late seventies better then an agitator equivalent




Post# 166984 , Reply# 1   11/12/2006 at 08:27 (6,345 days old) by christfr (st louis mo)        

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the only one i have put jeans into is the 1-18 and she can handle the job pretty well with 4-5 pair but thats all.. the unimatic and multi and roller i have are great with towels but i dont even try jeans in those kids..

Post# 166985 , Reply# 2   11/12/2006 at 08:54 (6,345 days old) by mayken4now (Panama City, Florida)        

mayken4now's profile picture
2nd christfr on that one.
Steve


Post# 166987 , Reply# 3   11/12/2006 at 09:04 (6,345 days old) by coldspot66 (Plymouth, Mass)        

My 1967 rapidry with the jet cone agitator doesn't roll stiff fabrics well at all, unless it's one pair with other types of fabrics. But I like to do all jeans together, all towels together etc so , for me, I use it mainly for towels, linens, and underwear/socks.

Post# 166990 , Reply# 4   11/12/2006 at 09:23 (6,345 days old) by rickr (.)        

rickr's profile picture
I never tried jeans in my 57 Control Tower. I am afraid that the rubber rings might get worn down, rubbing on the rough material. I use mine for towels ect, and it does a wonderful job
The best machine I have for jeans is my 56 Whirlpool with the Surgilator. It can turn over 6 pair of heavy jeans with no problems at all.
The KM with Super Roto-Swirl does a fair job with jeans, but it has a bad habit of wrapping the leg of the jeans around itself with 6 pair, and no more turnover after that
BTW: I have replaced the original water level pressure switch on the 56 WP, from the 10 lb. load to a 14 lb. load switch. This allows the machine to fill the tub to the top, instead of only a few inches from the top as it did with the original 10lb. pressure switch
More water in the tub, makes for easier turnover.


Post# 166992 , Reply# 5   11/12/2006 at 09:45 (6,345 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        
Hmmmm, me thinks it's time for less talk and more action

unimatic1140's profile picture
Well it looks like we're going to have to do a little test and find this out, aren't we? But unlike the last little video, the '57 Kenmore vs. the '58 Frigidaire will have to contain the exact same wash load, without detergent so we can really see what is going on down there
Anyone care to make some predictions over who which machine is going to turn over the load of all blue jeans better?


Post# 166993 , Reply# 6   11/12/2006 at 09:48 (6,345 days old) by cehalstead (Charleston, WV)        
vote for the best turnover

if I remember the action from my childhood, the Frigidaire will win.....easily....

Post# 166994 , Reply# 7   11/12/2006 at 10:05 (6,345 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        
Kenmore..Frigidaire..Kenmore..Frigidaire..

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What kind of agitator is there in the Kenmore?

Post# 166999 , Reply# 8   11/12/2006 at 10:39 (6,345 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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What kind of agitator is there in the Kenmore?

Hi Louis, I think we will leave that up to the Kenmore contingent.

I have a Super Roto-Swirl at my storage unit if you prefer. Choose your weapon carefully girls...


Post# 167007 , Reply# 9   11/12/2006 at 11:03 (6,345 days old) by rickr (.)        

rickr's profile picture
lol!! If it were my choice, I would pick the Surgilator with a full tub of water. Up to to bottom edge of the tub ring.

Post# 167008 , Reply# 10   11/12/2006 at 11:08 (6,345 days old) by westytoploader ()        
Now THIS will be interesting to see!

I've found that my 1-18 doesn't handle an ALL-jeans load that well, but when I throw 2 pairs in with a full load of lighter items, it turns over well. I will not attempt an all-jeans load in the Unimatic, but I have done mixed loads with jeans thrown in and the turnover hasn't stopped or slowed at all. So there's no doubt in my mind the Unimatic will win.

As for the Kenmo's, I too have had the best luck on jeans with the bakelite Surgilator, and that was in a large-capacity machine, so I'm willing to bet that would be the best "weapon" for the challenge. The straight-vane does a good job dragging and thrashing, but not really that much turnover. Forget about the Super Roto-Swirl; they really have a hard time going under and normally don't move.

Do you happen to have a Dual-Action by any chance? ;-)


Post# 167009 , Reply# 11   11/12/2006 at 11:14 (6,345 days old) by tlee618 ()        

I'm betting on the 58 Frigidaire!!

Post# 167011 , Reply# 12   11/12/2006 at 11:16 (6,345 days old) by jasonl (Cookeville, TN)        
Rotoswirl

Rick, you are absolutely right, the SuperRotoSwirl grabs jeans by the legs and wraps them around itself, killing turnover and making for an unbalanced load.

Oh, this is going to be good. Now, this time lets be fair, 4 jeans in each machine. That's enough for the Frigidaire to roll them over. The Kenmore will do it no problem no matter what agitator and then some.

Let's not let this become a "My washer's better than your washer" thing. Some people love Frigidaires and some people love Kenmores. That doesn't make one or the other inferior, just different.


Post# 167017 , Reply# 13   11/12/2006 at 11:31 (6,345 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Now, this time lets be fair, 4 jeans in each machine.
I'll do four pairs if you wish, but I was planning on five.

lol!! If it were my choice, I would pick the Surgilator with a full tub of water. Up to to bottom edge of the tub ring.
No extra water in either machine, that would be cheating. Both machines are running in top condition, just as were are out of the factory.

Do you happen to have a Dual-Action by any chance? ;-)
I don't Austin, but I don't think the Dual Action would fit in a 1957 Kenmore washer.

Let's not let this become a "My washer's better than your washer" thing. Some people love Frigidaires and some people love Kenmores. That doesn't make one or the other inferior, just different.

I couldn't have said it better Jason, and no its not about better or worse, this is for correct "information" and fun only. Jason, I'll make you the Captian of the "Team Kenmore", you talk to your people and decided on which agitator to use and let us know. As captain of "Team Frigidaire" we will use the '57-62 style Three Ring Agitator.


Post# 167021 , Reply# 14   11/12/2006 at 12:00 (6,345 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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My money is on the Frigidaire, so I won't interfere with the choice of the agitator. Question from the other side of the pond: IIRC the Surgilator is a Whirlpool agitator, not a Kenmore, is that correct?

Post# 167022 , Reply# 15   11/12/2006 at 12:03 (6,345 days old) by jasonl (Cookeville, TN)        

Surgilator is a WP agitator but it will fit in a Kenmore machine, as it's made by WP

Post# 167024 , Reply# 16   11/12/2006 at 12:09 (6,345 days old) by brettsomers ()        
my two cents...

the more jeans the better. IMO the truest test of agitation gusto is a heavily (but not overloaded) loaded machine.

Post# 167028 , Reply# 17   11/12/2006 at 12:20 (6,345 days old) by vegeta ()        
what about maytag

does maytag washers have good turnover? i like the older ones than today's ones

Post# 167040 , Reply# 18   11/12/2006 at 12:54 (6,345 days old) by agiflow ()        

Thank you guys for this response! I am just used to the typical back and forth action of every other agitator and to me, if the pulsator can handle a loaded tub of denims and heavier cottons...well then i could clearly see why they have a high following.

Post# 167046 , Reply# 19   11/12/2006 at 13:02 (6,345 days old) by rickr (.)        
water levels

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Just for the record Robert, I have always replaced the pressure valves in any belt drive machine that I have ever owned. The early ones did not fill high enough for me. So it is not "extra" water in my machines.

Post# 167047 , Reply# 20   11/12/2006 at 13:06 (6,345 days old) by agiflow ()        

I did not mean to turn this thread into another Kenmore vs Frigidaire test. I am just generally speaking of how well the pulsator does with a what is considered a pretty tough task.

Besides my vote is for the surgilator if you guys are serious :-)


Post# 167048 , Reply# 21   11/12/2006 at 13:07 (6,345 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
Information and Fun

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couldn't agree more. Also agree 5 pair, not an overlaod but a fair challenge.

My bet, although the offer seems not to be among the options:

THE PULSAMATIC WILL PUT ALL OTHER COMERS TO SHAME


Post# 167049 , Reply# 22   11/12/2006 at 13:09 (6,345 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Hi Rick, the picture you show is about the same water level that my '57 Kenmore fills up to, although the suds make it appear slighly higher than it is.

I wont have time to film this until sometime next week, so no rush in making any agitator decisions today.

As for Frigidaire agitators, the only agitator IMHO that would not be able to turn over jeans very well is the 1965-1969 Deep Action Agitator. The 1/18 Agitator does turn over well, but the water level has to be just above the last cone for it to work properly.


Post# 167056 , Reply# 23   11/12/2006 at 13:45 (6,345 days old) by rickr (.)        

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Hi Robert, So they must have raised the water level in 1957 then.
Perhaps the 56's were a 8lb. and 57 was changed to a 10lb. I just finished a 56 Kenmore, and had to replace the pressure switch in that machine also. It would fill only to a few inches from the tub ring, just like the 56 WP did. WP/KM kept the basket the same size and added more water to "up" the load size for years. Didn't it start with 8lbs. to 10lbs. to 12lbs. and finally 14lbs? I used a 14lb. switch on both of mine, and the 61 Whirlpool that Gregm now has.
As I am sure you know, the pressure switch can only be adjusted so far. To raise the level any futher requires replacement of the switch with a higher capacity.

Take your time with your test, it will give us something to look forward to now that many of us are sort of "housebound" due to the weather change to Fall.

I do look forward to seeing your Pink Lady in action! I don't recall ever seeing a clip of that one.



Post# 167057 , Reply# 24   11/12/2006 at 13:47 (6,345 days old) by jasonl (Cookeville, TN)        
TEAM KENMORE

OK, Kenmore people. we have the Pregnant RS, Super Surgilator, str8 vane, and rotoflex. I vote out the str8 vane and Rotoflex because they're low end agitators and they just don't seem like they'd have as much pull as the RS or Surgilator.

My 2c, as much as I love the Rotoswirl, I'll bet on the Super Surgilator for sheer power. What do y'all say? Why not try them both for a real comparison?

Robert, 5 jeans it is! Call me weird but that doesn't see very even for 4-section loading but what the hell. Let's see what that 3-ring can do.


Post# 167058 , Reply# 25   11/12/2006 at 13:55 (6,345 days old) by rickr (.)        

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Jason, I can tell you that the Surgilator is your best bet for this race.

Don't ask Karl Rove for his opinion though.... He is already takin a thumpin for his last bit of advice. lol!!


Post# 167060 , Reply# 26   11/12/2006 at 14:10 (6,345 days old) by jasonl (Cookeville, TN)        

Surgilator - 2 (me and Rick)
Rotoswirl - 0


Post# 167065 , Reply# 27   11/12/2006 at 14:28 (6,345 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Thank you Jason.

Post# 167115 , Reply# 28   11/12/2006 at 17:26 (6,345 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Home on the Range

Growing up on a working farm, mud, dirt and manure covered Wranglers were the uniform. The Kenmores had an adge on dirt and sand removal because of the perforated tub. The Fridaire did a better job of rinsing because of the overflow drain, but, always left a ring of dirt at the bottom of the tub against the clothes. No one I knew ever loaded more than 4 pair of wranglers in a washer at a time. Yhey didn't roll over, the hammering of the agitator wore the color off the pants and it was hard on the washer. In the old days, most house wives used hot water which loosened up the fibers so they rolled and bunched more easily. The Maytag does a suberb job of jean washing because of the long slow stroke of Helical Drive and lower vanes on the Gyrator leaving more tub room above it. The Jet cone agitator eats up a ton of tub real estate and never had the turnover capability of the Pulsator. I like watching a preggers RotoSwirl more than the Surgilator and it was my experience it moved the jeans around more than the Surgilator. General Electric with a spiral ramp Activator is no slouch at making the cowboys happy, turning over the jeans.
Kelly


Post# 167116 , Reply# 29   11/12/2006 at 17:29 (6,345 days old) by frontaloadotmy (the cool gay realm)        
Alright Team Kenmore

to be fair, you have to use the roto-swirl ag, style 57-62
for this to be scientifically accurate. You may only use a
surgilator in a Whirlpool machine!!!!


Post# 167138 , Reply# 30   11/12/2006 at 19:33 (6,345 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Hi Rick, that's a good question, I did notice the water level was slightly lower in the my '52 Whirlpool but I always attributed that to the float system as opposed to a pressure switch. I'm not sure about what they were thinking, I do know that the WP/KN capacity claims went up, but the basket size stayed the same.

Call me weird but that doesn't see very even for 4-section loading but what the hell
Good point Jason, but you see when I have five pair of jeans or six sweatshirts or seven towels I simply load them in 5, 6 or 7 sections respectfully. This is something I figured out early on in my Frigidaire loading.

Looks like Team Kenmore is leaning towards the bakelite Surgilator, ouch that's some stiff competition for the Team Frigidaire's 8lb tub and 3-Ring Agitator.


Post# 167139 , Reply# 31   11/12/2006 at 20:04 (6,345 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        
Fiddlesticks!

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7 Pair of Jeans
2 Pair of Sweatpants

Tub not even loaded to maximum capacity, everything turning over beautifully and I get an Energy Star for my washload!



Post# 167140 , Reply# 32   11/12/2006 at 20:09 (6,345 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        
Seriously though..

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I would vote for the Surgilator as well - probably the best of the WP/KM Lintmaker agitators!

It would be fun to strain the drain water from the Kenmore and the Frigidaire, just to show the difference. It's stunning. (don't forget to add the lint from the Kenmo's filter...)


Post# 167146 , Reply# 33   11/12/2006 at 20:39 (6,345 days old) by retroguy ()        
I'm a Kenmore guy, but....

I'm kind of thinking the Frigidaire will probably win. In fairness, however....shouldn't the machines be used with native agitators?

Post# 167147 , Reply# 34   11/12/2006 at 20:50 (6,345 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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In fairness, however....shouldn't the machines be used with native agitators?

Well it really doesn't make a difference because the wash basket and drive stroke were exactly the same throughout the Whirlpool/Kenmore standard capacity design, so I think it would be perfectly fair to pick the Surgilator.


Post# 167148 , Reply# 35   11/12/2006 at 20:52 (6,345 days old) by quiltnbear ()        
Well Lets Just Be Happy

that we NEED a differant machine for each load washed. Justifies having so many machines! Scott AKA Quiltnbear

Post# 167149 , Reply# 36   11/12/2006 at 20:53 (6,345 days old) by gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)        

If the jeans are new and not Pre-Washed (stiff as hell) it will depend on how many pair are in the Unimatic---(don't try it if the pulsator is old rubber--it might split!) Three pair will work nicely in the Unimatic, and I think it would win.

Go to four pair of stiff ones, though, and I'm thinking a 'Kenmo or Whirly might do better----but only with a Surgilator. (The straight-vane will drag them through the water mercilessly but may not roll them over well).

Five or more stiff ones and even the Surgilator will have reduced roll-over----but a Unimatic would be paralyzed!

-My two shekels.


Post# 167151 , Reply# 37   11/12/2006 at 21:01 (6,345 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        
I'm Ready to start Filming

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I'm ready to start filming so here is the "official" test. I will use the same 5 pairs of jeans and I will do the Frigidaire first, then I will spin them out at 1140rpm and put them into the Kenmore. This way we have the EXACT same wash load, albeit the Kenmore load will be wet to begin with, but this wont make any difference in turn over a few minutes into the wash.

I will fill each machine with warm water and let it agitate for 4 minutes, then at the 4 minute mark I will start filming, by that time the jeans should have settled into their respective wash flow. Then I will add two dry white socks to each machine so we can how quickly the socks get sucked under.

Gentlemen, start you engines.


Post# 167168 , Reply# 38   11/12/2006 at 22:15 (6,345 days old) by brettsomers ()        

so, uh, are the results going to be revealed tonight? this will be must-see, since i've never seen a surgilator in action!

Post# 167179 , Reply# 39   11/13/2006 at 00:25 (6,345 days old) by eddy1210 (Burnaby BC Canada)        
suspense

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I've tried 3 pairs of jeans plus smaller items in both types of machines and know which is better, but 5 will be very interesting. Wonder if the results will change?

Post# 167181 , Reply# 40   11/13/2006 at 00:40 (6,345 days old) by thirtyater ()        

OK, here is my 2c worth. I am with frontaloadotmy, I think if we are really going to compare K to F the surgilator gets disqualified. I also believe the str8 and rotoswirl both should be tested since they were both used and will probably give very different results.

Here is my guess. a roto swirl will beat Frigidaire and a Frigidaire will beat a str8 Kenmore.


Post# 167211 , Reply# 41   11/13/2006 at 07:34 (6,344 days old) by gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)        

The question is----are the jeans to be used in the test brand new (non pre-washed) stiff dark blue denim?
And what size are they?


Post# 167221 , Reply# 42   11/13/2006 at 08:47 (6,344 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        
The Results Are In!

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Now I have to edit and post the video, which I will try and do tonight, it is going to be a bit time consuming converting it and uploading it to the net, so I can't promise I will have it done tonight, but I will try.

I think both sides we be very surprised at the results. Picking the Surgilator for this test was a wise choice boyz.

The question is----are the jeans to be used in the test brand new (non pre-washed) stiff dark blue denim?
And what size are they?


Steven Riley! It's not nice to ask a girl that question. LOL

Actually the I used three pair of Neal's jeans (33/32) and two pair of my jeans (31/30). I didn't use brand new jeans because I want the test to be like the way I normally do wash and not something that rarely happens. Our jeans last a long time, so its rare that I have any new jeans to wash. Both machines were at or slighlty over capacity with this wash load.

The point here is to see how the two machines perform with the Exact same clothes. It would be interesting to do this test with towles and another with mixed cottens shirts.


Post# 167225 , Reply# 43   11/13/2006 at 09:03 (6,344 days old) by jasonl (Cookeville, TN)        

MY guess is they BOTH kicked major @$$. I know the Surg did a helluva job and the 3 ring kept right up with it.

Just for posterity, I might do 5 pair of jeans 34/30 in Frankenmore with the skinny Super RotoSwirl. I'll have to fudge with the water level cause it is a large cap machine, but I can make it fill to about where the standard machine would go, and likewise pit it against the Oasis, even though it has a hard time rolling jeans on normal cycle.


Post# 167277 , Reply# 44   11/13/2006 at 14:46 (6,344 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        
My Jeans Load, not necessarily vintage

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MY F&P can handle 8 pairs (34x32 for those who must know!) pretty well. I've done 9 which kinda pushes the limit.

I washed 9 pairs of jeans in my Calypso last night. See thread in Deluxe for details.

Perhaps I should try a large load with the Double-Duty Surgilator next door ...


Post# 167278 , Reply# 45   11/13/2006 at 14:57 (6,344 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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My nostalgic side wants the Pregnant Roto-Swirl (it was on the '60 Kenmore I grew up with), but I seem to recall my '84 Whirlpool (with the winged Surgilator) did a better job with all-jeans loads than the preggers 'Swirl.

My 'simply curious' side wonders how the Roto-Flex would do. I always thought they didn't look too convincing, but I've never seen one in action so that's pure speculation on my point.

I've always thought this: Why not use the whole length of the agitator to do the cleaning, rather than just putting fins at the very bottom of an agitator. The Surgilator seems to fit that bill pretty well.


Post# 167280 , Reply# 46   11/13/2006 at 14:59 (6,344 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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...But I digress: I vote Surgilator.

Of course, in reality, I'm totally with Greg; any front-loader would beat either machine hands down.


Post# 167282 , Reply# 47   11/13/2006 at 15:07 (6,344 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
might be but where's the romance

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My neighbors here in Munich have a picture somewhere of their 18 month old kid asleep in my lap, me asleep with my back against the refrigerator...and we both fell asleep watching the front loader in their kitchen wash.
David loved that.
No doubt about it - modern front loaders wash better. But where is the romance? When my old rollermatic started thumping away I just knew those clothes were getting clean, cleaner, cleanest. I could feel it in the whole house.
And that last thrust up then down while the spin started building. Oh!
I ain't gonna say that word, but my, I sure was jealous of my 501s in those days.
Regardless of who "wins" - the fun part is the sound and the action of both these wonders of post-modern technology.


Post# 167316 , Reply# 48   11/13/2006 at 17:53 (6,344 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
I know I have bad breath--oh no!

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and Hyperhydrosis--how unseemly! and Dwarfism--what a sight! and many other known defects, but unless I am also an irredeemable moron--poor b@$tard! Frigidaire's pulsator is more powerful than Frigidaire's three ring agitator, but I have neither, so I can't conduct any tests. I only have memory. And I could be wrong.

Robert, what is your opinion of the pulsator vs. the 3 ring agitator.

I love the Whirlpool family as much as the Frigidaire, and I have a Surgilator WP.
I think the Surgilator won, but if you put a pulsator in the ring, Surgi loses.





Post# 167322 , Reply# 49   11/13/2006 at 18:34 (6,344 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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what is your opinion of the pulsator vs. the 3 ring agitator

Hi Mike, a 3-Ring agitator is a pulsator so I do not understand your question.

I'm working on the video now everyone and I hope to have it ready soon.


Post# 167330 , Reply# 50   11/13/2006 at 19:17 (6,344 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        
YAY, the video is ready, again here is exactly what I did:

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I filled each machine with warm water and let them agitate for 4 minutes, then at the 4 minute mark I started filming, by that time the jeans had settled into their respective wash flow. Then I added two dry white socks to each machine so we can how quickly the socks get rolled over and under.

I think this video is super cool! It shows how completely different a Whirlpool/Kenmore and a GM Frigidaire washers perform the exact same task. Both machines have their strong points and both have their weak points.

I will hold my commentary on those points until after you guys get to see the video. Please pay particular attention to how I load the Frigidaire. Even though I added no detergent you will see a small amount of suds in the Frigidaire which got to wash the jeans first. These jeans were clean to begin with and were last washed in the Maytag Neptune Top Loader, the suds in the Frigidaire confirms my suspicions that the Neptune Top Loader is poor at rinsing. So enjoy everyone and let us know what you think.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO unimatic1140's LINK


Post# 167333 , Reply# 51   11/13/2006 at 19:44 (6,344 days old) by jamman_98 (Columbia, SC)        
Whew!

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Ok I was worried about my 66 rollermatic washing jeans but I feel it will do a good job. Not sure about a queen size comfoter - oh well laundrymat here i come.

Joe
jamman_98


Post# 167334 , Reply# 52   11/13/2006 at 19:48 (6,344 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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Loading is the key with the Frigidaire - you must have done this before??

Grass stains will never escape the Surgilator - you could thresh wheat with that thing!


Post# 167336 , Reply# 53   11/13/2006 at 19:54 (6,344 days old) by trainguy (Key West, FL)        
Ultra Cool !

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Robert,

This was just the greatest - thanks for taking the time to do this. But maybe both machines should have been the same color? LOL!

Rich


Post# 167337 , Reply# 54   11/13/2006 at 19:56 (6,344 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
video

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Hi Robert,
This was a great video. Yes the loading is the key. Even though I always liked Whirlpool / Kenmore washers - I will still always go with the Frigidaire. It still gives a better rollover and it is more gentle on the clothes with a more through wash.
Thanks
Peter


Post# 167341 , Reply# 55   11/13/2006 at 20:18 (6,344 days old) by westytoploader ()        

Wow, that was very cool. The Frigidaire definitely held true to the gentle "live water action" and the rollover was nice and steady; I saw those socks go under and come back up again many times. The Surgi-more really thrashed them around, but I noticed it had a hard time getting the air bubbles out, which seemed to impede the turnover a bit. I noticed this by how long the socks remained on top, however, once the socks actually reached the center, they went down quickly! I wouldn't doubt that both loads were of equal cleanliness from each machine, but I'd say the Frigidaire won.

Post# 167343 , Reply# 56   11/13/2006 at 20:34 (6,344 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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I wouldn't doubt that both loads were of equal cleanliness from each machine, but I'd say the Frigidaire won.

Well Austin it depends, IMHO I'm not so sure there is a clear winner here. I will explain why later after we get some input from what others thought.


Post# 167348 , Reply# 57   11/13/2006 at 20:57 (6,344 days old) by magic clean ()        

I thought this was most interesting. My 2 cents:

*Seemed like the Frigidaire load was a squeeze when dry
*The Kenmore appeared to have some open space when dry
*The Frigidaire definitely had more rollover by virtue of
pulsating agitation
*The Kenmore appeared to have less rollover due
to the socks not working their way up, but I think the
oscillating agitator moves the load from side to side as
well as rolling over, in a slower manner.

So its difficult to say which load was washed more completely.



Post# 167350 , Reply# 58   11/13/2006 at 21:12 (6,344 days old) by spats ()        

Cool video.

I'd have to say the Frigidaire in this case.


Post# 167351 , Reply# 59   11/13/2006 at 21:17 (6,344 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
video advantage

mickeyd's profile picture
goes to the Surgemore because of the larger white rim reflecting the tub better, and clearer water allowing greater vision, while the Frigidaire water was cloudy and the tub opening smaller; but the actual roll-over count goes to the Frigidaire. Toward the end of the film, the Surgemore operation really looks smooth and graceful, as if it were finally in command of the tub for a long voyage and full steam ahead.

Robert, we posted at the same time Sunday around one in the afternoon. I was trying to persuade you to use the pulsamatic's faster stroke in the contest. Don't you think the pulsamatic would really spin those jeans? Only you know. I know they're all called pulsators, Good Buddy. Was trying to distinguish between a unimatic and a pulsamatic. :>D We always called the black bakelite one, a pulsator, and the colored 3 ringer, an agitator.

What a sweet bedtime treat--"while visions of agitators danced in their heads."

Thanks Sambert

XXOO

Mikey


Post# 167352 , Reply# 60   11/13/2006 at 21:17 (6,344 days old) by mrsalvo (New Braunfels Texas)        

That was sooo cool, throughly enjoyed the video. The Whirlpool
did seem rougher on the clothes though, I enjoyed the lint filter action though. My grandmother had a Frid. just like the one in the video and it was an awesome machine, but it could tangle clothes like speghetti! It was amazing in that it seemed no matter how many clothes you put in it, they all came out clean and very dry. That machine could handle anything. Thank-you for taking the time to put this together.
Oh yes, Roto-Flex agitator I think may be the worst agitator ever put out by Kenmore...I don't think it could ever handle that many jeans. Anyone's opinion??? Let's compare 2 more washers!


Post# 167353 , Reply# 61   11/13/2006 at 21:21 (6,344 days old) by gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)        

Well since the jeans were not new and stiff (the way I like 'em)and ( honey puhleeeez sizes 33/32 and 31/30--you could put ten pair of those in the damn things) it was nearly a given the Frigidaire would have the best roll-over.

Nonetheless, that Surgilator is doing a great job of cleaning and will rinse better, except for the neutral drain/re-deposit part of the cycle all 'Kenmo's do.

Did it take you long to untangle the jeans from the Frigidaire?


Post# 167357 , Reply# 62   11/13/2006 at 21:50 (6,344 days old) by rickr (.)        
.

rickr's profile picture
Cool video Robert!

I would say the Frigidaire is not as rough on the material. Also did better on steady rollover.And I am sure the jeans would dry faster too. How about metal zippers and rivets? Was always afraid they would tear up the rubber rings, so have never washed jeans in my Frigidaire.

The Surgilator did fine, and I think if the jeans were REALLY dirty, it would have done a better job of cleaning. But only because it was more rough in the washing action. Usually most people don't get their clothes THAT dirty anymore. So the clothes would wear out faster if washed by the Surgilator.



BTW- Robert, at the risk of sounding as a broken record, I still say my WP/KM machines fill slightly higher than your 57 KM. The upper fins on my Surgilator are always under water, and never can be seen thrashing above the water level.
Have always thought that it is kinder on clothes if they can move more easily, instead of being thrashed back and forth. That is the reason I changed out the pressure switches on mine.


Post# 167359 , Reply# 63   11/13/2006 at 21:57 (6,344 days old) by tlee618 ()        

Robert thanks so much for taking the time to do this little eperiment. The roll over in the Frigidaire was fantastic which I was sure it would be. It did not look to me like there was an tangling of the jeans.

Post# 167371 , Reply# 64   11/14/2006 at 00:15 (6,344 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
no doubt in my mind

panthera's profile picture
The pulsator is tops any day. Sure, they both would get things clean - especially using soap and borax and washing soada and and and...but the turquoise turnover had the thresher beat socks down.
Robert, thanks a million for filming this - wonderful fun.
Hmm, now what would really get me going would be a comparison between Frigidaire pulsators...


Post# 167372 , Reply# 65   11/14/2006 at 00:21 (6,344 days old) by golittlesport (California)        

golittlesport's profile picture
Thanks, Robert! What fun! The Frigidaire certainly rolled the load better, but the Kenmore sloshed the jeans back and forth. So I would think the Kenmore washed them about as clean, albiet a bit rougher. Then again, the Frigidaire has the upper hand on extraction, which removes more suds and dirt from the fabric. Hmmmm....what's next? A stain test?

Post# 167376 , Reply# 66   11/14/2006 at 01:28 (6,344 days old) by agiflow ()        

This was very entertaining Robert. That Frigidaire is no slouch...wow...a tough challenge for any machine. Such cool footage.

Post# 167379 , Reply# 67   11/14/2006 at 02:36 (6,344 days old) by mayfan69 (Brisbane Queensland Australia)        
Cool Video!

mayfan69's profile picture
Cool Video Robert,

The Frigidaire certainly copes much better!

Leon


Post# 167380 , Reply# 68   11/14/2006 at 02:41 (6,344 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York)        

cleanteamofny's profile picture
I can say that both machine's did a fine job doing it thing,
but the Kenmore relies on the total movement of the agitator to clean the load from top to bottom which we see does that.
The Frigidaire pulsation is needed to constantly roll the clothes over in order to achieve the same cleaning performance of a standard agitator machine,
so water movement in that machine is outstanding!


OK........., now the rubber really meets the road.
If both machine were slightly overloaded, the Kenmore will win hands down because the clothes will rub against each other without the need of being stroked by the agitator.
The Frigidaire will not turn the load over and it relies on the water current to do the same thing but deep set in stains will not come out because of the lack of rollover........

So each machines has its pros and cons......



Post# 167394 , Reply# 69   11/14/2006 at 04:07 (6,343 days old) by sudsman ()        
You go Robert

neat neat I thought the Frigidaire would pull it out!

Post# 167422 , Reply# 70   11/14/2006 at 07:58 (6,343 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Thanks, Robert! It looked like both machines were cleaning with full capacity loads. You really don't want too much roll over, especially in the Frigidaire because that means the clothes are flying through the water when what really does the cleaning in the Frigidaire is that big bottom Energy Ring pushing water through the fabrics. The vanes on the skirt of the Super Surgilator force water through the fabrics also. It is definitely a rougher action on a large load. It's just the sort of agitator, along with Maytag, that you want for breaking in brand new jeans.

The interesting thing with each machine is what happens after the rinse fill. I noticed that you loaded the jeans in the Frigidaire so that either the waist or the legs were up; very smart to prevent air bubbles from keeping things afloat. With the WP Surgilator, the jeans were more or less laid in the tub sideways. I don't load any toploader by putting pants in sideways; always top to bottom for air release. When the super aerated rinse fill of the WP/KM blows bubbles into pants' legs(which is so easy when they are lying with a leg opening near the air-filled water stream) or under sheets, it can be tricky to get the air out during the short rinse agitation which leads to the chance of something not getting pulled under and actually rinsed. I like the fill and agitation of my KA much better, but it's 30+ years newer. So I think a truer test of the WP/KM would be if it were loaded like the Frigidaire and to let us see both machines during agitation after the rinse fill to see how quickly the agitation sorts the jeans into place so that they do a bit of rollover. It is much more difficult in cold water, especially during the months when the water is really cold, than in warm water.


Post# 167430 , Reply# 71   11/14/2006 at 09:14 (6,343 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Yes personally I don’t this is a clear winner or looser in this contest. Here are my observations and opinions from using both machines for years:

Cleaning ability:
For cleaning ability the Whirlpool has the edge, the clothes are really being cleaned well. Roll over is good, but it not essential to have it turn the load 30 or so times during the course of a wash cycle. The Frigidaire will get 99% of the jeans clean but might leave things like grass stains or other deep oily dirt if you don’t pre-treat.

Gentleness:
The Frigidaire wins hands down; the key here is to look at what happens as the clothes approach the agitator. Our jeans or anything else for that matter are rarely that dirty they need a rougher agitator treatment to come out 100% clean. Our clothes will definitely last longer out of a properly loaded Frigidaire.

Ease of Loading and Tangling:
The Kenmore wins here for sure as you can see when I loaded it I simply lay the jeans into the basket without thinking about it. With the Frigidaire I had to think about what I was doing as I was sure to load the jeans into five separate zones. If I didn’t do this, the turnover would have been the same, but they would have come out all tangled. As you can see when I unloaded the machine there was no tangling what so ever.

Rinsing and Spinning:
The Unimatic wins by a mile here as the overflow rinse and more than double spin speed removes move suds and wash water from the fabrics to begin with before the rinse even begins. The jean will dry in about half the amount of time it will take from the 525rpm spin of the Kenmore.

I uploaded separate videos in large format of each machine so you can really see what’s going on in each machine, here they are:
Kenmore
Frigidaire




Post# 167432 , Reply# 72   11/14/2006 at 09:29 (6,343 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

swestoyz's profile picture
Wow, what a great test! While it is difficult to conclude as to the absolute winner, I do like that you broke it down to the different principles of washing. I agree that the Kenmore will do a great job for heavily soiled items, and the Frigidiare has a wonderful rinse and extraction. Thanks for putting together this awesome display of truly vintage machines!

Ben


Post# 167433 , Reply# 73   11/14/2006 at 09:31 (6,343 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Oh I forgot to add in my post above, Mike the Pulsamatic style agitation will not be able to turn the wash load as well as the Unimatic/Multimatic style.

Rick I think reason there is a difference in the pressure switches could be because of the connection devices to the outer tub which were very different in the beginning. In the early pressure switch machines they used a rubber hose with a plastic nipple to connect the air pressure hose. In the 60's - 80's they used a plastic air dome assembly with a nipple molded into the dome to connect the air pressure hose. The reason I say this is because I have seen quite a few standard capacity Whirlpool washers from the 1970's with the white surgilator and I don't remember any of those machines having the water level actually rise up and above the top of the vanes. The water level rose up to reach about 1/4 of an inch away from the top of each vane, just like it does in my 1957 Kenmore. Of course there is always a chance that there is a difference in the height between the white plastic Surgilator and the black bakelite Surgilator agitators. I don't have a white one to compare with the bakelite one.

In the large capacity machines I seem to remember the water level did rise above the top of the vanes, but those agitators were slightly different.


Post# 167435 , Reply# 74   11/14/2006 at 09:33 (6,343 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
Worthy of Consumers' Union

roto204's profile picture
Very nicely done, Robert. It's very interesting to see that there's not so much competition between the two machines as there is an opportunity to see the different approaches they take to doing laundry.

Thank you so much for taking the time to do this!


Post# 167436 , Reply# 75   11/14/2006 at 09:42 (6,343 days old) by mixfinder ()        
Inside Tom Terrific's Mind

Tom,
I felt the exactly same thing about loading. What would the WP have done if 5 balls of pants were loaded instead of 5 ropes?
Kelly


Post# 167455 , Reply# 76   11/14/2006 at 10:23 (6,343 days old) by 48bencix (Sacramento CA)        
video genius

Robert,

What a way to start my Tuesday. Having the machines side-by-side in one frame was just so perfect. This was a very fun and educational experience.

And, as usual, it was fun to read what everyone thought about the test.

Thanks,

Martin


Post# 167461 , Reply# 77   11/14/2006 at 11:19 (6,343 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Thank you Kelly!
I remember too many years of the Pregnant Roto Swirl in both of mom's Kenmores not being able to tug a section of sheet under the rinse water because it was too full of air. The PRS would pull it side to side which, I guess, is where I got the imagery that is called to my mind when I see a HUGH JASS tugging a garment (needless to say stretched tight almost to the point of sudden, dangerous failure) back and forth with each step.


Post# 167490 , Reply# 78   11/14/2006 at 14:35 (6,343 days old) by surgilator ()        
Thank You Robert

Those video's were great! I loved seeing the different approaches each machine uses for washing clothes. While the Whirlpool is my personal favorite, I was very impressed with the Frigidaire! Its difficult to come up with one overall winner. I liked how Robert divided the results into categories it makes for a better comparison between the two machines.

Post# 167491 , Reply# 79   11/14/2006 at 14:36 (6,343 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Thanks Robert for doing these videos. Quite entertaining!

Post# 167492 , Reply# 80   11/14/2006 at 14:57 (6,343 days old) by rickr (.)        
Five balls instead of five ropes

rickr's profile picture
Have never loaded a WP that way, but I think the Surgilator would have unwound the jeans ok. The jeans would suffer a brutal beating in the process though.

Post# 167500 , Reply# 81   11/14/2006 at 16:31 (6,343 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Bravo! It was interesting to see the two machines working side-by-side. I'm going to try an all-jeans load in my '06 toploading Frigidaire and see what happens...

Post# 167508 , Reply# 82   11/14/2006 at 17:53 (6,343 days old) by coldspot66 (Plymouth, Mass)        

How about a side by side comparison of a pregnant Roto-swirl vs. a straight vane?

Post# 167527 , Reply# 83   11/14/2006 at 19:59 (6,343 days old) by jasonl (Cookeville, TN)        
I HATE DIALUP

I still have yet to see this video. I'm working inside the computer shop now and have NO time for Youtube or Google Video, and being that I live in Dialupalousas, it's insulting to have to wait hours for a video that will stream instantly on a highspeed connection.

You'd figure a upper middle class neighborhood like this one would have high speed, but NOOOOOO...


Post# 167538 , Reply# 84   11/14/2006 at 21:19 (6,343 days old) by rickr (.)        

rickr's profile picture
Move to the hood Jason, we got it here.....lol!!

Post# 167558 , Reply# 85   11/14/2006 at 23:22 (6,343 days old) by retroguy ()        
Robert, thank you....

So much, for taking the time to do this for us. The video was just awesome, and the way you walked us through it, with your thoughts afterward....perfect! And, again, your machines take the cake. I suspect they are even better now than they were when they left the factory. They certainly look as if they just left it! =)

Post# 167579 , Reply# 86   11/15/2006 at 01:52 (6,343 days old) by agiflow ()        

A full jeans load was always what i was skeptical about concerning Frigidaire washers. This test has fully convinced me that the pulsator is a powerful though gentle action agitator in it's own right.

I loved the action of the Surgilator also..but must confess i was cringing a little at just how 'brisk' that agitation is. My goodness you guys weren't joking at what an agressive agi that was.

All in all 2 great washers from a time that no longer exists,..but will live on the collections of AW.org members.

Thank you all...lot's of great things going on :-)


Post# 167603 , Reply# 87   11/15/2006 at 08:06 (6,342 days old) by jasonl (Cookeville, TN)        
FINALLY I get to watch

Well, looks like for sheer turnover, the Frigidaire got it, but for agitating muscle and cleanability and ease of loading, the KM gets it.

I'd say it's a tie. They both roll the jeans over and they get clean. The Frigdaire is best and rinsing/spinning but the Kenmore still does a hella job cleaning. They're both fun machines.


Post# 167637 , Reply# 88   11/15/2006 at 11:47 (6,342 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
YAY for the Kenmore Contingent and YAY for Frigidaire Contingent. It's nice that the two are giving each other hugs :).

Now you should see what the Maytag AMP does to those jeans, talk about arough treatment, oy. The reason Maytag put in a lid switch that even stops agitation when the lid is lifted is so the homemaker can't hear the screams.

(The Frigidaire contingent is now officially ducking and running from the Maytag contingent )


Post# 167641 , Reply# 89   11/15/2006 at 12:54 (6,342 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA)        

peterh770's profile picture
Robert: Check your Yahoo email. I sent you the AMP thrashing video.

I like the way the Surgilator works; what I don't like is the premature aging it would do to clothing (that goes for all oscillating agitating washers). Thrashomatic! I wonder if the ramped Roto-Swirls would be worse, since the agitator is so bulky...

I don't go thru jeans enough to have a denim-only wash load, so jeans get categorized as "darks" and go in with all the other "darks". Never had a turnover problem in any Frigidaire with that kind of mixed load.

Steve Maykenow: Your white towels would be blued automatically if you washed them with your jeans! No need to run back to add your Mrs. Stewart's to your last rinse!


Post# 167642 , Reply# 90   11/15/2006 at 13:00 (6,342 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        
YAY for Peter

unimatic1140's profile picture
Thanks Peter!!! I completely forgot about this video. I made this about four or five years ago for the club. Here are some jeans washing in my 1949 Maytag AMP, while I'm only washing 4 pairs of jeans in this clip, I can only imagine what would happen with five. Be sure to notice the color of the wash water.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO unimatic1140's LINK


Post# 167647 , Reply# 91   11/15/2006 at 13:21 (6,342 days old) by jasonl (Cookeville, TN)        

The Thrash-O-Matic award goes to the old Speed Queen. I have video of the SQ at Convention 2002 thrashing the hell out of my jeans.

Hmmm... Looks like we need a Frankenmore Skinny Rotoswirl demonstration. 5 jeans (size 33/30) and the water level (I kow it won't be accurate) set to about 3/4 full (standard tub fill achieved by playing with the water level switch) and then kick it up to FULL (large tub fill) and see the difference.

Yay for lintmaking Kenmores!


Post# 167660 , Reply# 92   11/15/2006 at 14:44 (6,342 days old) by irishwashguy (Salem,Oregon.............A Capital City)        
Very impressive, although, I have a question...........

irishwashguy's profile picture
Thank you Robert, this is really neat to watch. How would a Kelvinato maybe a Filterflow with a ramp agitator? Which one of these would have a better turnoverThat was amazing how blue the water was in the AMP.Were those new?

Post# 167662 , Reply# 93   11/15/2006 at 14:51 (6,342 days old) by agiflow ()        

That AMP is very akin to the old Norges wash action. Lots of movement in that wash basket.

Post# 167665 , Reply# 94   11/15/2006 at 15:07 (6,342 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Lots of movement in that basket

panthera's profile picture
Is right...my goodness. I am beginning to wonder how many of my grandfather's "flannel" shirts from the 40's and 50's were really "flannel" to start out with.
But wow! I just love the way that pressure switch goes down as the water spins out. Such brilliantly simple solutions to such challenging problems.
Once again, thank you Robert.
(But I still think Samantha's videos are cuter.)


Post# 167667 , Reply# 95   11/15/2006 at 15:09 (6,342 days old) by westytoploader ()        

A Filter-Flo with the ramp Activator is really the BEST jeans washer out there as far as I'm concerned, especially an 18-pounder. When I'm not using my White-Westy FL, I wash jeans in my '77 Dispensall with that agitator. The aggressive dip-roll agitation is no match for a stray pair sitting on top of the load, let me tell you! Also, when I'm washing sheets and there are air bubbles on top of the load, it will pull everything down, bubbles and all!

Post# 167714 , Reply# 96   11/15/2006 at 21:38 (6,342 days old) by mayken4now (Panama City, Florida)        

mayken4now's profile picture
WOW, wish I would have been on to take part, sorry, I know ya'll missed my company, but have been busy. Anywho, very nice and yes the Frigidaire wins!

Ok Peter, will heed your advise!

love to all

Steve


Post# 168798 , Reply# 97   11/20/2006 at 18:02 (6,337 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
F&P IWL12 takes on 7 or 8 pairs of jeans.

WARNING: 33MB video clip, 6 mins 19 secs runtime -- http://68.89.57.239/jeans.mpg (available for only a couple days)



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