Thread Number: 9780
Whirlpool ends Production of KitchenAid Toploaders
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Post# 180713   1/4/2007 at 13:40 (6,293 days old) by drewz (Alexandria, Virginia)        

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Wanted to order new set, KitchenAid Suprba top loading washer & gas dryer only to find out that they have stopped production of the last two model sets.

KAW 750 & KAW 850 Suprba also all matching dryers.

I hate this these were the only two top loading machines in the entire Whirlpool line that had a 10yr warranty on trans!

All that's left are the Ensemble front loaders and the Super $$$ Built-In Stainless Steel Set for KitchenAid now.





Post# 180811 , Reply# 1   1/4/2007 at 20:00 (6,293 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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confirms rumor KA was dropping its laundry line and puttijng those efforts into the Maytag brand.

Post# 180827 , Reply# 2   1/4/2007 at 21:35 (6,293 days old) by oxydolfan1 ()        

I have actually seen very few KitchenAid washers in my area.

Post# 180831 , Reply# 3   1/4/2007 at 21:44 (6,293 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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KA toploaders are here, although not to the numbers of Kenmore, Whirlpool, GE, and Maytag. I have a 1991 pair, and my parents bought a set in 1994.

Post# 180839 , Reply# 4   1/4/2007 at 22:18 (6,293 days old) by oxydolfan1 ()        

Are the quality differences between KitchenAid and high-end Whirlpool washers of that era more pronounced then, let's say, the KitchenAid and Whirlpool dishwashers of the same period?

Post# 180866 , Reply# 5   1/5/2007 at 01:02 (6,293 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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It totally makes sense that they would do this. KitchenAid is more of a "Kitchen" appliance brand. The laundry never made sense to me. What makes sense to me is WP making Maytag the premier laundry line, since it has far better brand recognition in laundry than KitchenAid ever did. I've only seen 1 actual KitchenAid washer, and it was at a Sears store. Otherwise, the most prominant washers are actually "Maytag" and "whirlpool."

I think this is the first time in a long time I actually agree with a company's marketing tactic.


Post# 180868 , Reply# 6   1/5/2007 at 01:04 (6,293 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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It totally makes sense that they would do this. KitchenAid is more of a "Kitchen" appliance brand. The laundry never made sense to me. What makes sense to me is WP making Maytag the premier laundry line, since it has far better brand recognition in laundry than KitchenAid ever did. I've only seen 1 actual KitchenAid washer, and it was at a Sears store. Otherwise, the most prominant washers are actually "Maytag" and "whirlpool."

I think this is the first time in a long time I actually agree with a company's marketing tactic.


Post# 180872 , Reply# 7   1/5/2007 at 01:22 (6,293 days old) by agiflow ()        

It's too bad that TL washers are for the most part dwindling away. It would have been nice if WP offered a Maytag TL washer that had the build quality of the KA washers & dryers.

That f****** DOE screwed everything up!


Post# 180891 , Reply# 8   1/5/2007 at 08:17 (6,292 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Scott, The GREAT difference between WP and KA toploaders is that all but the most basic KA washers had the three speed motor so that the "regular speed" agitation was done on the motor's medium speed. The slower motor speed coupled with KA's special agitator with larger skirt and fins made the washing action much gentler that the fast thrash WP style. High motor speed was reserved for draining and the fast spin speed. The KA machines also had upgraded sound insulation. I treasure mine.

The dream at the time WP bought KA was to make KA an entire premium appliance line. Early KA builtin cooking pieces were from the old Chambers line, then WP. They even made an upgraded 24" Thin Twin stack washer and dryer for the KA badge, but not the 27" super thin twin which is a fabulous laundry center. Fortunately, WP had a good line of appliances which they could badge KA, unlike Maytag that bought poor, old dying companies and slapped the Maytag name on pieces of crap. It worked once for each customer after which they were so disgusted with Maytag they were loath to buy Maytag washers, dryers and dishwashers. It was almost impossible to line up the refrigerator and freezer doors on their early side-by sides from Admiral. They had a much improved refrigeration line when they went with Amana.


Post# 180894 , Reply# 9   1/5/2007 at 08:35 (6,292 days old) by oxydolfan1 ()        

See, now I would have loved the medium speed during washing on my 1988-vintage Whirlpool (daily driver)....as I've mentioned to GadgetGary, whose ex has virtually the identical model, the frenetic wash action is effective, but does a number on dress and uniform shirts that still require vigorous wash action to get clean. The KitchenAid program you describe would seem to have solved that problem neatly...

I do hope I will not begin to see the Maytag and Admiral machines they sell at places like Home Depot appearing en masse at the curb on bulk day, as I walk to the bus!

This happened with a certain series of Amanas a few years ago....I keep hoping that perhaps a mid-tier foreign investor will purchase the rights to these venerable nameplates and put out at least decent-quality, new-technology equipment, but I guess this is not realistic on my part.

I'm going to do more research on KitchenAid for my own knowledge. In case I come across one of these in my travels, I'd want to know if it is something my friend and I could rebuild (I would assume Whirlpool would continue to have replacement parts and the like.)


Post# 180940 , Reply# 10   1/5/2007 at 14:24 (6,292 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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KA also carried a stronger warranty. My KA dryer has a porcelain top, which I don't think Whirlpool does on their standard TL line. KA electric dryers had (or did at one time) a more robust heating element, IIRC mine was warranted for 5 years. My 1991 760 washer has a layer of fiberglass insulation under the base. My parent's 1994 670 is labeled "Quiet Scrub" but doesn't have the extra insulation layer. Both are 3-speed.

Post# 180969 , Reply# 11   1/5/2007 at 16:40 (6,292 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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Here is my 87 Rapid-Advance, all pushbutton model washer. It doesn't have the three speed motor & larger agitator - that came a little later, but I still use this washer a lot and it's sooo pretty!

KA washers also had a hot-dipped/galvanized cabinet (no rust) and heavy porcelain on the lid and top. The motor bearings and dryer rollers were heavy bronze usually found in the commercial models, which almost will never give any trouble and the older dryers had a six-ribbed belt which lasts far longer.


Post# 180974 , Reply# 12   1/5/2007 at 17:05 (6,292 days old) by retromom ()        

If American manufacturers are phasing out top loading washers, starting with KitchenAid makes perfect sense. The washers aren't as readily available in most big box stores as the regular names are. Is it true that, currently, KitchenAid is the only major appliance brand to offer more than a one year warranty?

I also agree with John, in that most consumers think of KitchenAid as being kitchen related. You have only to walk into Lowe's to see everything from KitchenAid Coffee Mills to the standard KitchenAid mixers.

I guess it starts with KitchenAid and will work its way down.


Post# 180981 , Reply# 13   1/5/2007 at 17:56 (6,292 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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KA washers also had a hot-dipped/galvanized cabinet (no rust) and heavy porcelain on the lid and top.

The parents' 1994 KA has some rusting under/around the loading port, even creeping up stained on the white porcelain. My 1991 doesn't (not yet, last time I looked).

Lacks and Western Auto here carries (carried!) KA toploaders.

F&P has a full two-year warranty (still, far as I recall), but I suppose they aren't a major brand. My 1998 F&P GWL08 and DE04 had five years manufacturer warranty (two years full, three more years parts-only for sending in the registration card). They don't do five years any more, that I know.


Post# 180983 , Reply# 14   1/5/2007 at 18:31 (6,292 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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Well, I didn't say the porcelain was perfect ;-) Mine has some of the same issues around the bleach dispenser opening and corners of the lid...



Post# 181227 , Reply# 15   1/6/2007 at 22:13 (6,291 days old) by cny4 (Central New York)        

I have a superba pair purchased Jan of 1997.

The washer has the aformentioned rust starting. It has been repaired twice, a plastic part in the drive line broke twice. My repair person said it is a commonly broken part on WP made direct drives. The bleach dispenser sucks; it holds bleach and redeposits it in the following loads. I have had several dark pieces of clothing ruined by this. Consequently I do not use the dispenser any longer. The dryer takes an extemely long time to dry a load sometimes 1-2 hours. Are these problems normal?


Post# 181255 , Reply# 16   1/7/2007 at 01:29 (6,291 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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If you're referring to the drive coupler between the motor and transmission, yes they do break sometimes. They're supposed to be the weak link to protect the transmission against damage in case something jams it, but breakage shouldn't occur *that* often unless of constant overloading, washing shoes (which can cause undue stress on the agitator), etc.

The drive coupler in my parents' 1994 KA was replaced on 12/28/2006, which is approximately 12 years of use.

My 1991 KA hasn't been used in about two years. As I recall, I replaced the drive coupler on it sometime in summer of 2004, which would be approx 13 years of use.

Drying shouldn't take that long. You probably have an obstruction in your vent duct.


Post# 181266 , Reply# 17   1/7/2007 at 02:28 (6,291 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

cny4, One of the main things with the KA's breaking the drive coupler between the motor and the tranny has to do with KA's 3 speed motor being heavier than the two speed motor. The piece of metal it is mounted on is the same gauge as the mount for the 2 speed motor. If, during transit, the carton containing the washer is set down a bit too hard, the weight of the motor at the point of the sudden stop would tug just hard enough on the supporting flange to pull the motor slightly out of alignment with the connector to the tranny. Over the years of dealing with the misalignment, the coupler would break. If a customer had more than one replaced, John would check to see how the motor was hanging and push it back up into the proper position so all of the pieces lined up better. There is also a commercial donut that conects the 3 pegs from each side together. It has cording in the rubber like stuff for reinforcement and is not smooth like the domestic part is.

Post# 181278 , Reply# 18   1/7/2007 at 05:57 (6,290 days old) by cny4 (Central New York)        

I cleaned the dryer vent tubing out about a month ago, at that time it was taking 2-3 hours to dry a load. The 1-2 hours it takes now is the same as from the day I bought it brand new. I use the automated sensor part and it takes 1-2 cycles depending on what you are drying. The timed cycle generally is about the same.

Post# 181312 , Reply# 19   1/7/2007 at 12:39 (6,290 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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I will say that my 1991 KA dryer required setting to the extreme Very Dry position of the auto cycle for jeans and towels to get fully dry in one cycle, but they *did* dry. Two passes through were needed if set on the "normal" dry position. A *full* load may have taken an hour, but *never* two hours. Small to medium loads were correspondingly shorter times. Lighter-weight loads such as sheets and casuals did fine on the "normal" position.

How long is your vent ducting and what route does it take from the dryer to the end? If it's 20 or 30 feet long or more, has one or more 90° turns, makes a vertical run, goes through your attic, etc., it may either be excessively long or there may still be some obstruction that got missed during the cleaning.

My vent was literally a straight shot through an exterior wall. The wall opening was offset from the dryer outlet so I had to use a section of flex-vent to make the connection. This is not the KA dryer, it's my Fisher & Paykel dryer in the same location, with the same piece of flex-vent.


Post# 181352 , Reply# 20   1/7/2007 at 15:05 (6,290 days old) by hreodbeorht ()        
Check your house wiring

When my dryer took a long time to dry, I traced the problem to loose wires at the circuit breaker. I'd measure 240VAC when the dryer was disconnected. But when I turned on the dryer, the voltage would plunge to the point where the dryer would turn off. Ended up replacing the breaker at the service panel also, as the aluminum wire had heated up to where it had melted the connection. Even if you don't have aluminum wire, check the terminals anyway, make sure they are very tight. 1-2 hours to dry a load of clothes indicates something is very wrong.

Post# 181448 , Reply# 21   1/7/2007 at 20:56 (6,290 days old) by cny4 (Central New York)        

None of these are issues, the dryer has been in 2 different residences, with the same results. I have solid dryer vent tubing that I totally disassembled and cleaned out. This did help, quite a lot. But you do need to use the extreme longest cycle and on towels and jeans; 2 cycles through. We also do usually do full loads, 6-8 per week. Again, this dryer has been like this since day one at my old house. Maybe we do larger loads than most, this may be why the plastic piece on the washer has broken twice.

At least The clothes are not "super dried out" like on some machines, this is a plus. I believe thy call this "cushioned heat" in KA lingo


Post# 181487 , Reply# 22   1/7/2007 at 22:42 (6,290 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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You mjay have something there about overloading--too large of loads. I have had a 1986 Lady Kenmore (direct-drive) washer. I'm now using a Frigidaire Frontloader that was previously used, brought to me by a club member this fall. In the 20 years of service (and I did do some BobLoads in it), I have never once broken a coupler!!! Hmm On average I did 20-24 loads a month.

Post# 181559 , Reply# 23   1/8/2007 at 08:39 (6,289 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

Our TOL WP Electronic set needed a new drive coupler after 3 years. But then again we were washing large blankets in the machine. After we started to take those to the washateria, no more problems with the drive coupler. We were also told overloading is hard on the couplers.
We did have to put in an agitator overhaul kit about 18 months ago. Cost about $20.00 and took about 20 minutes to install, did it myself. What we think caused the plastic "feed dogs" to wear out was that when my wife did laundry, she'd put the detergent in first, then turn the machine on so it would fill, then grab the top of the agitator to mix the water and detergent when it had about 4" of water in it. Now we use one of those Persil Bio Balls.
We have the matching WP TOL dryer, which dries anything within
45 minutes or so. We have never had any problems with it since it was new in 1993. But then again every three years or so we take the cover off and clean it out. Lint does tend to collect inside the case.


Post# 181576 , Reply# 24   1/8/2007 at 10:09 (6,289 days old) by abcomatic (Bradford, Illinois)        

My everyday automatic is a 1995 KA. I have had the drive coupler repaired once since 1995 and all is well again. I like the turquoise adgitator in the machine.
If the KA is no longer going to be made, would it be a good idea to hang on to this machine as a future collectable? Have fun. Gary


Post# 181718 , Reply# 25   1/8/2007 at 20:53 (6,289 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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Glenn,

You could probably get a rigid periscope type of dryer vent adapter that would work much better (and perhaps safer) than that flex foil "S"....


Post# 181721 , Reply# 26   1/8/2007 at 21:02 (6,289 days old) by bpetersxx (laf in on the banks of the Wabash River)        

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hopefully this is safe dryer venting it is flexible aluminum dryer duct work

Post# 181727 , Reply# 27   1/8/2007 at 21:23 (6,289 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Rich, that installation was at the previous house. There still is a piece of flex-vent to allow some working space but it doesn't "S." The dryer is positioned and pushed back to compress the flex-vent.

Post# 181830 , Reply# 28   1/9/2007 at 10:32 (6,288 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Disappearing KitchenAid laundry line! Who would have thought that such a modern laundry line would become collectors' items so fast? The whole thing, not just a discontinued model or two. I'm glad that we have a fairly good representation in our holdings. The laundry products were available for almost 20 years. That's not long when you consider other brands.

Still fanning and clutching those smelling salts...
Tom


Post# 181911 , Reply# 29   1/9/2007 at 15:50 (6,288 days old) by oxydolfan1 ()        

I saw a statistic in CU that startled me...that KA toploaders have an 18% frequency-of-repair rate...their highest for all TL brands.

If KA is Whirlpool's premium product, how are such figures possible?

(Besides the fact that we all know that CU is a bit, well....)


Post# 181923 , Reply# 30   1/9/2007 at 16:44 (6,288 days old) by zipdang (Portland, OR)        
...KA toploaders have an 18% frequency-of-repair rate....

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The Superba TL I purchased in 2003 had issues. It had to have both tubs replaced because of leaks, and the timer had to be replaced because it kept shorting out. Once fixed the machine ran for two years without a single service issue, then I got ants in my pants (typical) and got something new. My sister-in-law bought the same washer just weeks after I did, and her machine developed the same timer issues mine had. She's a little "oh...whatever" about those things, so has never scheduled a service call. (If you push the timer in and let it sit for a while it will eventually work again.)

I was surprised that both of the machines in my family had what I consider factory defects, as my previous experience with Whirlpool's DD units was that they were very reliable. Perhaps someone on KitchenAid's QC line fell asleep on the job?


Post# 181986 , Reply# 31   1/9/2007 at 20:34 (6,288 days old) by cny4 (Central New York)        

That's is why I was venting about some of the issues with my machines. CR has had Kitchen Aid near the bottom of the list for a few years while Roper is always near the top, what gives?

Repair people care to elaborate their experiences?


Post# 182691 , Reply# 32   1/12/2007 at 09:02 (6,285 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

CNY4, Have you ever opened the door after about 20 minutes of drying and felt the clothes? Are they slightly warm or good and warm? Are you using the auto dry or timed dry cycles? One thing about the 29 inch dryers with the U-shaped air pattern is that if you dry a really huge load, they are not as efficient as dryers that have the back to front axial air flow. As a giant load dries and takes up more space, it can keep the air from circulating all the way to the front before going out through the exhaust. If you are washing very large loads in the KA washer with its (now)relatively slow spin speed, it would not be uncommon for for the load to take around an hour and a half to dry. You are using the cycle/speed setting which gives the normal spin speed for cottons, not a slower spin, right? The washer motor sounds different when you listen to it in the final spin on the regular cycle than it does on the delicate cycle, I hope. You are not in a situation like an apartment community where you are served by 208 volt electric service instead of 220, are you? Hope these questions do not insult your intelligence. I am trying to eliminate any factors that might be causing your drying speed to be lengthened unnecessarily. Tom

Post# 182716 , Reply# 33   1/12/2007 at 12:20 (6,285 days old) by agiflow ()        

I think WP had some timer issues with the late 80's/ early 90's timers in their line as well. We had an DD bought in 1988 that developed issues when you would set the machine on PP. You had to play around with the dial for the machine to start filling.

This eventually happened on all the cycles when it went to the crusher in 2003. Very good performance otherwise with that lint filter Surgilator that washed just as well or better than the DD DAA.


Post# 182774 , Reply# 34   1/12/2007 at 18:28 (6,285 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Interesting! My 1990 KA toploader was serviced twice in the scant 2 years I owned it. First the timer gave out, then it refused to agitate. Unfortunately, I don't recall what caused the agitation problem.

I liked the machine a lot----very sturdy and stylish and porcelained, but I never keep washers to the end of their natural lives. I wanted a FLer again, so the KA was soon out the door.


Post# 182789 , Reply# 35   1/12/2007 at 19:24 (6,285 days old) by cny4 (Central New York)        

Tomturbomatic:

You are correct, we usually dry large loads, we hardly ever move the water level off extra large. The clothes are good and warm; and wet after 20 minutes. I usually use the automatic dry and yes the clothes are sometimes wetter coming out of the washer than with other brands. So maybe 1.5 hrs is normal for the loads I do.

I wished I had bought the TOL Whirlpool at the time instead.
My mother has these and no issues.


Post# 182819 , Reply# 36   1/12/2007 at 21:37 (6,285 days old) by golittlesport (California)        
Roper on top and KA on bottom of CR readers' survey

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Maybe it is because "the more bells and whistles, the more things there are to go wrong." At least that is what my mom would say when she deliberately would not buy higher than the mid-line model. Ropers are very basic machines...I don't know that they even have two speeds.

Post# 182912 , Reply# 37   1/13/2007 at 03:45 (6,284 days old) by agiflow ()        

I seem to remember that KA had the most reliable TL washers in the early 90's..according to CU. If anything , WP was bringing back some heavy use of chrome on those machines.

Now we have the cabrio/oasis..which actually seem to be sturdier than the regular offerings of TL that they pump out.


Post# 182954 , Reply# 38   1/13/2007 at 09:26 (6,284 days old) by oxydolfan1 ()        
Oasis sturdier.....

The lid goes "clunk" when you close it...

I love the sound of that "clunk".


Post# 183070 , Reply# 39   1/13/2007 at 20:53 (6,284 days old) by cny4 (Central New York)        

I have to agree I think the older KA's were much better. Plus that turquoise agitator with the chrome ring on tops was sweeeet!!!!

Post# 183102 , Reply# 40   1/14/2007 at 00:59 (6,284 days old) by abcomatic (Bradford, Illinois)        
KA a keeper or not

HI, I'll ask this question again. I have a KA washer from 1995 with one repair. Since KA is not making laundry equipment any longer, should I keep this one in hopes that it may be a collectible later on or just junk it when it dies? Thanks, Gary

Post# 183106 , Reply# 41   1/14/2007 at 01:17 (6,284 days old) by agiflow ()        

Definitely hold on to it. What do you have to lose?

Post# 183113 , Reply# 42   1/14/2007 at 06:27 (6,283 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Gary-- It will definitely be a collector's item in the future. Whether you're interested in keeping it that long is up to you. But at some point a very excited person will post here saying "Ohmygod I found a '95 KA toploader!!". The porcelain, the stepped spin speed and larger-than-KM/WP-agitator will set it apart from the WP-built pack.

Who knew in the '60s-'70s that the dime-a-dozen center dial Maytags would be so coveted? They seemed pretty pedestrian at the time, but now finding one is cause for celebration.



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