E.Coli on laundry (not for the highly-squeamish!)


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Thread Number: 980
E.Coli on laundry (not for the highly-squeamish!)

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Post# 53441 1/14/2005 at 09:25 (7,035 days old) by designgeek ()
Checkrate/Likes 1 This topic will be dealing with the question of bacterial persistance on laundry. Don't read this if you're highly-squeamish about poop and suchlike. --- In another topic, Launderess said: Post# 53375-1/13/2005-20:53 \|\|\| Launderess (United States) Tide With Bleach Read the fine print on the box and you will see that particular version of Tide is effective against a small list of bacteria. The most commonly found bacteria found on laundry, E Coli is NOT listed, and it is all over everyone's wash. Normal laundering methods; hot water, mechanical action, change of water temsp (hot to cold), and chemicals contained within modern laundry detergents do a pretty good job of killing bacteria. If you want to take things furhter, there is always chlorine bleach (still the most effective and wide spectrum disenfectant available widely), or very hot wash temps for an extended period of time. Launderess --- Okay, first issue: Whence come all the e.coli in the wash...? If I'm not mistaken, e.coli is fecal coliform bacteria. That suggests it comes from underwear. Even someone who's fastidious about wiping their bottom when they poop could have e.coli present on the skin in the region, which can't be removed by the toilet paper. So then, the e.coli would transfer to their underwear invisibly. Is that approximately right? You'd change your underwear daily, it would never have a visible trace of poop or anything, but it would still have picked up the e.coli from your bottom. And then it would sit in the laundry basket for a few days before making the fateful trip to the washer. This has implications for dirty laundry storage: to not use traditional baskets with their open mesh sides (bacteria could escape onto the bedroom floor), but instead use baskets that have solid sides and bottoms, without perforations. And also, to never use the same basket to carry the clean clothes back from the laundry room, as was used to carry the dirty clothes to the laundry room (I'll have to admit I've been guilty as h*ll of this one.) To complicate matters slightly, if the e.coli are transferring invisibly from one's bottom to one's underwear, could they also transfer through the cloth of the underwear, to the cloth of the outer garment worn over the underwear? So, even if you have two separate laundry baskets, one for whites, the other for colors, your dark pants (e.g. blue jeans) have already picked up e.coli and it's now in both laundry baskets, right? (Oh lovely!) This gets us to the key question: what procedures can be used to kill the e.coli or reduce it to a safe level without growing resistant strains? For example, wash all whites in hot water. Okay, but it takes 160 degrees Fahrenheit for at least 5 minutes, to kill 100% of bacteria in food, so it would seem to be the same requirement for laundry. However, the plastic tubs & components of many modern washers aren't rated to that temperature. And household water supplies aren't set that high. So now you add bleach to the whites. Okay, how much bleach? What I'm looking for here is a ratio of bleach to clothing, or bleach to water in the washtub, so the quantity can be adjusted to various load sizes and washer sizes. Assume liquid bleach e.g. Clorox or its generic equivalents of the same strength. This has implications for users of twin-tubs and suds-return machines: never recycle water from a load of underwear into a load of outer garments. Also, for anyone, for all washers generally, wash outer garments first, then wash the underwear/whites load, handle colored socks separately, and after the last load, wipe down the interior surfaces of the washer with a dilute bleach/water solution and leave the lid open to allow fresh air circulation. Is that right, or have I missed something? Another implication, is that this might be a serious reason to buy one of those "micro-washers" such as the Cyclone or its Sears equivalent, just for the purpose of handling socks as a segregated load, to keep those pesky foot-bugs from transferring to other garments. (And I also have to admit I've always done mixed loads in cold water, yow!) Then comes the drying cycle. To what extent do modern dryers get clothes up to 160 degrees and above? Seems to me that would be the point at which all the water has been removed from the garments i.e. when they are bone-dry, and then the drying is continued in order to raise the temperature to the appropriate level. At this point however, it wouldn't seem terribly urgent to separate the garments by color aside from fabric care issues, if all of it is going to get nuked at 160 degrees. Alternately, are all of the possible segregated-washing procedures unnecessary as long as all the clothing is nuked at 160 degrees in the dryer? (I always do this step and have thought it was sufficient by itself.) All of this may sound like so much anti-germ paranoia, but the fact remains that we are presently seeing the emergence of many new and resistant bugs. Antibiotics are starting to fail to a degree that has public health physicians pulling the proverbial fire alarm. Therefore, once again, sanitation becomes the first line of defense against potentially serious illnesses. We're all aware of the need to wash hands after using the bathroom, before preparing or eating food, and upon coming home from public places such as work, school, or shopping. However, most people (in America at least) probably aren't fully aware of the public health implications of the way they do their laundry. I get the impression that this needs to change.

Post# 53443 , Reply# 1 1/14/2005 at 10:13 (7,035 days old) by veg-o-matic (Baltimore, Hon!)
Checkrate/Likes Hmm. Scientifically speaking, this makes a certain amount of sense: e. coli on underwear-->wash water-->other clothes. On the other hand, I've lived through 44 years of having family bacteria spread through the laundry and show no ill effects. No, no--my insanity comes from OTHER sources! As for laundramats, well, I'd rather not think about that too hard. I'm as squeamish as the next guy. Until recently, I always threw away bathroom rugs when they started to look tatty. Now I just wash them--but I always run another empty cycle afterwards with some bleachy. Just in case. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm all for sanitation. As long as it's not too much work, or, "What's a Few Germs Among Friends?" As I've always said, you can eat off my kitchen floor. There's a lot of good stuff down there. veg

Post# 53449 , Reply# 2 1/14/2005 at 11:51 (7,035 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA)
Checkrate/Likes Machine wash warm, tumble dry low, get out of your house and live!

Post# 53452 , Reply# 3 1/14/2005 at 12:58 (7,035 days old) by partscounterman (Cortez, Colorado)
Checkrate/Likes *A few germs are OK* I think its not good to try and kill every germ on earth. I think having a few bugs around keeps the immune system on guard, that is, if you are not exposed to the germs, how can you body build up a defense against them. We people are really filthy creatures if you sit and break it all down, so just do you best to maintain some semblance of order and don't think too much about the real nasty stuff (like all those dust mites that poop in your bed or the freaky little bugs that live on your eyelashes) BTW, I've been known to grab the dirty fork thats been sitting in my worktub at the shop, rinse it off and proceed to eat my saimin. This is the most base behavior I have ever engaged in. THAT should give my white cells something to work on! So I'm not gonna worry about a few germs on the laundry.

Post# 53459 , Reply# 4 1/14/2005 at 14:26 (7,035 days old) by DADoES (TX,�U.S. of A.)
Checkrate/Likes I regularly wash underwear with shirts/casuals. And bath towels and wash cloths with kitchen towels and dish cloths. There're no creepy-crawlies coming out of my washer far as I'm aware. I'm 42 years old, no specific signs of ill effects thus far . . . although I suppose there are some people who would argue that point, LOL! And anybody who doesn't want to have a meal at my house on grounds of contaminated kitchen towels, well, they just don't have to! :-)

Post# 53464 , Reply# 5 1/14/2005 at 15:51 (7,035 days old) by Gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)
Checkrate/Likes *And back at the Mortuary---------* First we had an old Maytag, then we took the old '63 Frigidaire Three-Ring down there.We threw everything into it, blood soaked (or worse) sheets, towels, car wash rags and occasionally one of our shirts or some other garment. Never had a problem BUT there is no doubt some of those things were teaming with some really MEAN COOTIES! Oh yeah, we used hot water, bleach, etc. But that was sufficient for cooties back when. Now those cooties have evolved into some really nasty things! Even though I am now retired from the business, I am really careful whenever (on rare occasions) I am called back in to service, because the rules of the game have changed.Everyone is super careful in the embalming room to make sure everything is disenfected as you work, cleaning behind yourself as you go. Sheets and towels are sent out to be cleaned by a linen service. Supposedly they use a steam rinse of some sort, but I doubt that would kill much nowadays.(They did not ask my opinion)! I am thinking the drying process helps a lot as most of these cooties depend on warmth and moisture, and drying out the garments would remove a medium for reproduction. I was reading one of the embalming trade magazines about rampant urinary tract infections in major hospitals, etc. They even traced those cooties to the drums of Betadine solution!!!!And that was over TEN years ago, so imagine how powerful those cooties are now! Oh well, just some thoughts. I will stick to a hot wash with Clorox for my dainties, and hope nothing hops out onto anything else!

Post# 53466 , Reply# 6 1/14/2005 at 16:01 (7,035 days old) by westytoploader ()
Checkrate/Likes I wash whites on HOT water with 1-1 1/2 cups of Tide w/Bleach (Purex is good too) and 1/4 cup of Biz, and I NEVER do mixed loads. I'm somewhat "anal" about the way I do laundry and OY...mixed loads are one of my BIG pet peeves. Judging by what Designgeek said, it's unhealthy if you combine whites with outer garments, which is something I don't do either. Even when it is the smallest tabletop machine, I NEVER recycle water either. For each wash/rinse, I refill it. That's the best way to keep from infecting anybody. Bottom line: DON'T recycle washwater, no matter what it is. Also, I find that having a tankless water heater saves time as far as laundry goes. We've had our Bosch AquaStar for nearly 3 years and now on-demand hot water is something I can't live without! Any other "tankless" users here?

Post# 53468 , Reply# 7 1/14/2005 at 16:18 (7,035 days old) by gregm ()
Checkrate/Likes *dryer heat* I always thought dryer heat for "an hour ISH" took care of that ............

Post# 53476 , Reply# 8 1/14/2005 at 16:51 (7,035 days old) by davenp ()
Checkrate/Likes 1 *Medically Speaking....* Okay... I have to jump in. As a Family Practitioner and as someone who does laundry and likes it. Firstly, E-Coli is not fecal coliform bacteria. E-Coli is the short name for Escherichia coli. E-Coli is the most common subgroup FOUND in fecal coliform bacteria. Secondly, there is not but one strain of E-Coli. There are many. We see new ones all the time. I believe the latest is Enteroaggregative E coli or EAEC. Thirdly, you do not need to start nuking your under-roo's. E-Coli is a potent bacteria but structurally it's weak. ANY simple soap solution will break down it's cells down causing total distruction. As long as you are getting things completely wet and adding soap, you will be fine. The reason meat must be cooked to 160* is because a high temp is required to break the bacteria down. If you want to bake your tightywhities in your oven at 160* for 10 minutes, aside from a small fire you'll have killed the bacteria. Finally, It would be a REALLY bad idea if we killed ALL bacteria on the earth. Your body cannot even fuction without bacteria. A special bacteria in the group known as probiotics exists in your intestinal track which actually helps you to digest food and kill toxins in the feces. You may have noticed that after receieving certain antibiotics you'll have very loose stool for awhile. What has happened is you have recieved a broad spectrum antibiotic which has killed not only the bad bacteria but the good as well. It really didn't mean to, thats just it's nature. There are exceptions of course, such as Zithromax which is very narrow in it's scope of bacteria it kills (actually kills e-coli) and because of its method of action, it tends to cause loose stools. E-Coli is responsible for a lot of infections. Many lung infections these days are caused by it, as are many of the infections resulting in Sepsis. For women, almost all urinary tract infections are e-coli related. Keep in mind though that the strains of e-coli causing THOSE infections are NOT the same ones you find in human feces. The strains found in human feces will very rare cause you enough problems that you'll visit a health care provider. You may have some loose or bloody stool for a few days but it's self resolving and most people think they're just having a upset stomach. Only extreme or prolonged cases require treatment and the antibiotic Ciprofloxin works wonders. This is not a health crisis. It's not even a health issue. But please, atleast don't wash your drawers with your dish towels... that REALLY freaks me out. David Adams, NP Board Certified, Family Pracitioner

Post# 53478 , Reply# 9 1/14/2005 at 17:48 (7,035 days old) by DADoES (TX,�U.S. of A.)
Checkrate/Likes Westytoploader asked: Any other "tankless" users here? My new house has a tankless water heater. One central unit for the entire house. Envirotech is the brand. CLICK HERE TO GO TO DADoES's LINK

Post# 53479 , Reply# 10 1/14/2005 at 18:30 (7,035 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There�s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes Unless one is laundering cloth diapers, or linens/clothing from a sick room or person with a contagious infection, there really isn't a need to go overboard worrying about germs in laundry. Yes, until recently whites and most everything else that could stand it was boil washed. But remember also until really after W.W.II when the first antibiotics became available, germs could kill. Small cuts and scrapes we laugh off today with some "Bactine" and "Band-Aids" could put one in hospital if not kill. So it made sense for housewives to be on their guard against germs in the home including linens. Housekeeping then was much about prevention of illness as it was keeping things clean. With the average laundry water temp dropping to warm water, detergent makers have had to rely more on chemicals to "disenfect" than previously. Also with more fabrics and colours that cannot laundered with chlorine bleach, again laundry detergent makers have had to find ways around germ killing. Having worked in nursing, am here to tell you that unless someone in your home has smallpox (highly common event until recently),or another highly infectious disease, shouldn't worry to much about laundry being "sanitized". Remember intact human skin is the body's first and best defense against germs entering the body via the surface area. One likely touches far more germ laden surfaces in the course of one's day besides their own laundry. When I took microbiology, we had to swap and culture common surfaces. If you really want to get grossed out, you should see what grows on door knobs, sinks (bathroom and kitchen), counter tops (same), desks and even someone's hands that has just been to the loo and swore they washed them afterwards. You'd never eat or feel the same in your own skin again, if you dwelled upon it. Launderess

Post# 53484 , Reply# 11 1/14/2005 at 19:29 (7,034 days old) by alr2903 (TN)
Checkrate/Likes *good point Laundress* Laundress, i figured you were a nurse all along. While we are on this germ topic. When hotel rooms and the articles in them, were recently cultured. What do you think the nastiest thing in a hotel room is???

Post# 53485 , Reply# 12 1/14/2005 at 19:50 (7,034 days old) by Gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)
Checkrate/Likes *Reply to air2903* My guess would be the bedspread---the first thing I do when entering my hotel room is to wrap my hands in kleenex and fling the thing in a corner far away! I always keep a baggie with Sporicidin wipes for the telephone and other surfaces.

Post# 53489 , Reply# 13 1/14/2005 at 20:31 (7,034 days old) by fixerman ()
Checkrate/Likes *Nastiest thing* Depends on who you brought with you I guess.

Post# 53491 , Reply# 14 1/14/2005 at 21:15 (7,034 days old) by lbcarguy ()
Checkrate/Likes The last post is the best. Very good laugh and a good way to end this thread.

Post# 53492 , Reply# 15 1/14/2005 at 21:18 (7,034 days old) by westytoploader ()
Checkrate/Likes *Stay away from bedspreads!* Ewhttp://www...yes, the dreaded hotel bedspread. I saw a book on hotels (forgot the name) by a reviewer and the first thing this guy did was take off the bedspread! Why? He mentioned that, based on statistics, hotel bedspreads contain traces of mucus, urine, feces, semen, saliva...the list goes on. Not to mention when these things ever get washed, IF EVER. Makes you REALLY want to pull the covers over your head...NOT! Another reason I pull bedspreads off is from a little experience I had. Last Spring I strolled downstairs to do a load of laundry at a Courtyard (Mariott) in Abilene and wouldn't you know, the commercial laundry room was right next to the hotel's W/D facility. There was a newer TOL Kenmore set in there which wasn't too entertaining (but we were running low on clothes) so I started my wash and watched through the open door, the maids STUFFING 60 lb. Milnors; yes, some with bedspreads. Now I've seen Milnors in action loaded the CORRECT way, and it didn't look anything like this. The towels, sheets, etc. were not circulating at all, with no hint of suds. I thought...YUK! And if this isn't enough...look here at this poor Wascomat stuffed with towels at The Riverwalk Plaza Hotel in SA. --Austin

Post# 53498 , Reply# 16 1/14/2005 at 21:45 (7,034 days old) by alr2903 (TN)
Checkrate/Likes *The Nastiest.* Id have to agree about the bedspread Gyrafoam, I know for a fact they are not laundered after every use. The absolute most bacteria and virus encrusted item,well maybe after fixerman's guess, was the remote control for the TV. Have a nice weekend folks. :-) alr2903

Post# 53509 , Reply# 17 1/15/2005 at 00:15 (7,034 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There�s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes *Not a Nurse* ALR, Sorry, but only completed about half of nursing school then switched majors. Basically as I had been a hospital junior volunteer, then a part time nursing assistant during high school, it was assumed by all a nursing career would be the most logical option at college. This was at a time when nursing was considered a "good" career for women as one could kept it up after marrying and having babies. In short paid busy work until you caught yourself a husband, and for those unlucky enough not to marry "well", a respectable career for a married woman. Anywho, one morning whilst making beds with another student nurse, some hot shot young doctor I had known for years walked in and said "Good to see everyone doing what they are supposed to be doing". Well as the patients were in their beds sick, one could only assume that comment was directed towards us. Quickly realised I did not want to spend my adult working life, cleaning up poop,making beds, and other gross stuff, so I changed majors. Still use quite a bit of my nursing and science courses in every day life though, so it was not a total loss. Launderess

Post# 53519 , Reply# 18 1/15/2005 at 02:39 (7,034 days old) by kenmore1978 ()
Checkrate/Likes *disinfectants* I seem to remember Lysol having a liquid version that could e added to laundry to disinfect things that couldn't be bleached. I wonder if it's still marketed? And I imagine there are other brands, too, both consumer and institutional.

Post# 53525 , Reply# 19 1/15/2005 at 03:56 (7,034 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There�s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes *Lysol Laundry Sanitizer* IIRC was a powder, and no it has not been on the market for years. You could use regular Lysol, but the "scent" does not leave your laundry or washing machine easily. There are whole groups of chemicals one could use to disenfect laundry, but the cheapest and best for the buck is still chlorine bleach. For most state and local health department, the standard used for disenfecting laundry is chlorine bleach. From commercial dishwashing to public laundry, bleach is it. L

Post# 53528 , Reply# 20 1/15/2005 at 04:44 (7,034 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)
Checkrate/Likes I sort of like the oldfashioned smell of Lysol, perhaps I should give it a try LOL

Post# 53532 , Reply# 21 1/15/2005 at 06:18 (7,034 days old) by Gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)
Checkrate/Likes I have a friend who runs the laundry for the local "Whor-a-Day Inn" near me. They had to stop using chlorine as a disenfectant in their laundry years ago because someone successfully SUED them over the residue left in the towels!!!! They use some special additive now automatically injected into the machines at the right time. I always take a little baggie of "Sporicidin" towelettes with me when I travel to clean the room in the hotel (and the tray table,window and arm-rests on the airplane!). Remote control, light switches, door knobs, handle on toilet, bathroom counter, telephone, etc. The housekeepers don't care, most are underpaid for the job they do and even if they were paid well I still don't think they would give a damn given their typical work load. Many come from third-world countries and have not been taught good hygene (nor do they comprehend the theory) in the first place!

Post# 53533 , Reply# 22 1/15/2005 at 07:20 (7,034 days old) by wringingwet (Walterboro South Carolina)
Checkrate/Likes *Westytoploader asked: Any other* I just had a Rianni On Demand gas hot water heater installed and It Is FANTASTIC I had 8 house guest for Thanksgiving and never ran out of hot water and belive me The washers & Dishwashers were all running at the same time. I could never go back to a tank and I am now begining to see a big diffrence in my Gas bill Tankless and love it Philippe

Post# 53538 , Reply# 23 1/15/2005 at 08:52 (7,034 days old) by alr2903 (TN)
Checkrate/Likes *Laundress / Sorry* Laundress, I am sorry to have made an assumption. I always enjoy your posts. Thanks alr2903

Post# 53542 , Reply# 24 1/15/2005 at 09:27 (7,034 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)
Checkrate/Likes Eat some dirt , kiss your dog , build up your immune system. Thats life! Has been for 3.2 billion years. And rememeber they now have proven we ALL came from fungus to start! Jet

Post# 53543 , Reply# 25 1/15/2005 at 09:29 (7,034 days old) by designgeek ()
Checkrate/Likes Understood about the natural bacterial ecosystems of the human body and even of reasonably-clean (but not obsessively-sterilized) households. And I'm certainly not on a crusade to kill every bacterium (or even the vast majority:-). Also understood about the variety of strains of e.coli. (What I do in the kitchen is routinely wipe-down surfaces with a mild soap solution, and then every couple of weeks or so, nuke the place with a reasonably strong bleach solution. This on the theory that occasional bleaching won't lead up to biasing the kitchen surface ecosystem in favor of bad bugs, for example as happens when people over-use "antibacterial" products.) I'm thinking ahead to the potential for bird flu (viral) to hop over to human transmission, and about possibilities involving various resistant bugs (MRSA comes to mind), and of course the old bugaboo, bioterrorist attacks possibly including smallpox. Also, thinking back to a couple of bouts of some kind of intestinal bug in college, which were sufficiently bad to include a fever of 104 degrees. Few illnesses in my life have conjured up the feeling of "I'd rather just die than deal with another day of this," but those sure did. And a coworker of mine just got over having a mild version of this, which brought it back to mind pretty forcefully (he apparently caught it from a housemate of his, a day following very brief hand-to-hand contact). Here's an idea that might be worth doing: someone with appropriate credentials start up a "hotel sanitation review" web page. Including such things as the results of culturing surfaces in rooms, expose' photos of bad laundry practices such as Westy came up with, photos of kitchens if there's anything truly notable going on, etc. (Unwashed bedspreads with (list of bodily fluids omitted): eeewww!) (Holy cow, anyone think of taking their Danby 5500 FL on vacation with them, for dealing with such contingencies?:-) In the next pandemic, the underpaid & overworked & under-trained hotel cleaning staff will become part of the front-line defense. Hotel managers have got to start up-skilling the training and up-scaling their pay. I would gladly do without the TV entirely and other optional amenities, in favor of knowing that my bed linens weren't covered with little bugges, much less strangers' DNA. Now I'd like to play Devil's Advocate about something, and see what y'all think about this. One of the traditional selling-points of twin tub machines has been the ability to re-use wash water. This is still highly relevant in certain parts of Australia, Asia, and the Middle East. And soon, most likely, the USA southwest. So you have, e.g. 6 lbs. of laundry, 10 gallons of water, and however-much detergent. Then you move the load to the spin-tub and whilst that's going on, start up another wash load in the same wash water. Now you've done 12 lbs. of laundry in the same 10 gallons of water, having added more detergent (possibly) for the second load. Okay, now how is this any different from a large-capacity front-loader, where you might have 12 lbs. of laundry in one load, along with 10 gallons of wash water, and the same amount of detergent? Your 12 lbs. of laundry have X quantity of little bugges in it, and they end up in the 10 gallons of water in the front loader. So, what harm if any, in splitting the wash load into two loads of 6 lbs. each, and putting them through the same 12 gallons of water in the twin tub?

Post# 53604 , Reply# 26 1/16/2005 at 01:46 (7,033 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)
Checkrate/Likes *Reuse of Water* Hi Designgeek, In AU up until recently it wasnt only Twin tubs that reused water, it was Suds Saver's as well. We're talking them being very common until the mid 90's or so. Growing up my mum went from a twin tub, to a Whirlpool TL, she used to wash as the following. Baby/Toddler Clothes - Hot - Save Water Whites - Add Cold Fresh water Coloured - Cold - Save Water Sheets - Add Cold Fresh Water Towels - Hot - Save water Greasy Overalls - Add Warm. She followed this process for 10 + years without us ever having anything more than a cold. When she replaced the whirlpool with a Simpson which didnt have auto sudsave, she didnt use softener and would reuse the rinse water instead of the wash water. Thinking being that this was in theory cleaner than the wash water. Whites were always bright white. (Heaven help the young learner washer boy who put colours in as well. THEY'LL COME OUT GREY, THEY'LL COME OUT GREY :) ) My point is, that I was fine until moving to the city, with fast food, public transport and not quite so fresh vegetables. Now I've had Antibiotic resistant strains of tummy bugs for almost 3 years now, and I just live with it. In todays world, our washing, which if done ourselves only contains the germs we already have. There's lots bigger ways to worry about collecting bugs. A mate of mine is paranoid about bugs, and as such uses an antiseptic rinse aditive, which kills fungus and bacteria etc. Its no more expensive than softener and he has the warm and fuzzy feeling that the bugs should be gone :)

Post# 53655 , Reply# 27 1/16/2005 at 19:40 (7,032 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)
Checkrate/Likes *Nasty hotel bedspreads* Its a little expensive-and it is interesting to science minded folks as well-thats the Emissive Energy-Innova 5led UltraViolet flashlight.I have one and it is interesting to use-you can use it to detective urine stains in bedspreads,floors,carpets,etc.Under UV light urine stains will appear to be bright yellow or greenish yellow.I use it at my workplace-along the walls on the floor you can see the urine stains from mice.Rats and mice do not have bladders to store their urine so they urinate all the time.There are other versions of UV lights available that are less expensive than the Innova model.Some can even be available as a key fob on a keyring.The Innova light uses two type#123 Lithium batteries. I now do my underwear and socks as a separate load. Use a low hot water setting,than rinse with a high water setting-works really well-Even gets those "tracks" out.One funky thought-those parents at fast food or other places that allow their toddlers to sit on the food serving counters while waiting for their food---?Sort grosses me out. Let them stand or sit on the floor.Peoples bottoms may as whats on this thread-may be dirtier than you think.

Post# 53687 , Reply# 28 1/17/2005 at 06:40 (7,032 days old) by kenmore1978 ()
Checkrate/Likes *Laundry disinfectants* Apaprently there's stuff out there that's safe for colored things CLICK HERE TO GO TO kenmore1978's LINK

Post# 53694 , Reply# 29 1/17/2005 at 09:06 (7,032 days old) by designgeek ()
Checkrate/Likes I used to kiss my dog when I was a kid too, but never ate dirt:-). Kenmore, re. Peracetic acid: interesting stuff, shouldn't even be too expensive (it sounds like a derivative of acetic acid, which is white vinegar). Does that place sell to end-users? (And if we go buying generic chemicals to make household cleaners with, will that get us a visit from Homeland Security?:-). Brisnat81, we had suds-savers here in the USA for a while in the 1950s and 60s. They might make a comeback in some new form; and we're already starting to see new twin-tubs on the market here (Danby and now Haier). Interesting set of cycles your mom ran. I was thinking that something along the lines of using the rinse-water from load A to wash load B, etc., might be a viable procedure. Or use washwater for two cycles of colored shirts (no coliform on shirts!), and proceed from there. I'm going to start running some experiments shortly along all of these lines & will start a topic to report results. Re. your resistant bugs, how long did each case last? And did you ever track it down to something specific (e.g. food, water)? Tolivac, is that a longwave or shortwave UV flashlight? And what's the cost? Longwave is traditional "blacklight" used in psychedelic lighting effects and so on, which makes fluorescent paints glow. Shortwave is what's used for sterilizing, and is also a skin-cancer hazard if chronically over-exposed. I think I would freak out if I started seeing all kinds of fluorescent glow in hotel rooms, and in the beds. Eww, just thinking about it is enough to give me the creeps. On the other hand, I think I'm going to start taking my own sheets with me when I travel on business. Or at least bring my own pillow (speaking of places that harbor little critters!) and sleep in my sweats, which I know are properly washed. Not to mention the risk to people with compromised immune systems, of picking up something that could kill them, from just sleeping in a hotel. And not to mention what happens in the next pandemic, even to the rest of us with normally-functioning immune systems. Clearly another potential application for those Electric Bubble Bucket type micro-washers: take it to the hotel and wash your sheets. If anyone wanted to make a fortune they'd start marketing those to travelers who don't want to sleep in strangers' dried bodily fluids and DNA. Sell them in a "travelers' sanitation kit" along with a UV flashlight and a few other items such as water-disinfecting tablets. (You can tell I don't travel much, eh?) --- squeamish alert, poopoo items below --- Babies sitting on counters in their poopy diapers: Yeah, nasty, I never even thought about that one. Eeyow. And for the baby's benefit: s/he could pick up the bugs left by other peoples' dirty hands on the counters, which point could be used to encourage parents to keep their kids' bottoms off the counters. Once, when I was a kid, my mom caught someone in a department store letting their kid pee into the basin of a drinking fountain. My mom gave her hell for it, and she (the woman with the baby who was peeing in the water fountain) got all defensive because she didn't even think she was doing anything wrong. Seems to me these things need to be taught in school and even in church, if parents are that ignorant. Fifty years of antibiotics have made us oh so complacent. And that era is coming quickly to an end.

Post# 53757 , Reply# 30 1/17/2005 at 20:50 (7,031 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)
Checkrate/Likes *UV flashlight* I beleive it generates primarily LW-which the urine will flouresce under this-and some SW radiation.It was about $54.0 Its an interesting gadget.Carry it with me.I do wear glasses which can filter out the SW radiation.I just don't look directly into its beam.I would think the "micro-bubbler" washers would be too small to use for sheets-many hotels have a laundramat though-guess you could wash the sheets there for a peice of mind-what about the towels??Wonder where they have been.Probably "roundie-roundie" in that picture of a large FL washer in another entry.I too have been known to take some of my own bedding to hotels.Maybe it might give their housekeeping staff a message-And the Hotels should teach them how to load and use the laundry equipment.If that was used right shoudn't be a worry.Yes I wonder how many rats and mice-other critters populate and serve as unpaid "guests" in hotels.The UV light could tell-and you could even show the hotel staff!!Maybe THEY should have and use the UV lamps. that really GROSS about the lady letting her baby pee into the drinking fountain-guess will have to shine the UV lamp on those too!!Makes you want to stay at HOME!People are sure disgusting these days.Need to show them those old "health" and "personal" care films in schools like what I used to have to watch.The kids on the counter sort of bothered me when I was at a restaurant-saw that and went to another.think the store staff should ask the mom to keep the kids on the floor.Its NOT her home!!Oh-on the UV lamps-you can get other types as well-some much less expensive than the Innova model.Its considered the better and more powerful lamp.Fishermen also use these lamps to "recharge" flourescent fishing lures.Sometimes you can find them in hunting and fishing supply stores.another place to try.

Post# 53761 , Reply# 31 1/17/2005 at 21:00 (7,031 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)
Checkrate/Likes *Kiss your dog* Dogs and cats mouths are cleaner than a persons-their saliva has compounds in it that can kill germs-but the thought-of kissing the dog when he has licked his.....???Human mouths are real growth areas for nasties-in fact if your are bitten by another person the doctor will definetly give you shots.Human saliva doesn't have the germ killing agents dogs and cats do.Just food for thought.the nasties are why our teeth are subject to decay.

Post# 53785 , Reply# 32 1/18/2005 at 00:03 (7,031 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)
Checkrate/Likes *Other UV lights* I also have some UV lamps from Ultraviolet Products-These were intended for minerology and prospectors nad "rockhounds" many types of mineral ores flouresce brightly under SW UV light. the lamps I have generate either. They also have filters on them to filter out the tubes visible light. these use quartz glass argon-mercury bulbs-look like minitature flourecscent bulbs but without phospors.These are very expensive-most of the cost goes into the filter. The LED lights are less expensive-they don't have filters on their bulbs. The flourecsecnce will still work-but not as clearly as the UV Products lamps. I have a propectors UV lamp that runs on two 6V lantern batteries. It also has a white light in it as well.A word of warning on the UV products lamps-since they generate SW radiation-they can burn eyes and skin-and with the filter--in a brigtely lit room you may not be able to see that the lamp is on unless you point it at an object that will flouresce.These lamps are usually sold from suppliers such as Edmund science,and any "Rockhound"Rock shop,or Lapidary shop in your area. The prospectors lamp will probably run about $300.Its good for those folks who are very serious about UV lighting.A footnote though-the LW lamps sold at novelty stores could be used to look for urine stains.They may have battery powered ones as well.They would use flouresecent style bulbs instead of LEDS-UV Leds are expensive.They are working on ones that can generate SW light.That would sure change the mineroloy and suntan industries-Imagine a booth with hundreds of UV leds!!instead of the UV bulbs.I did look up a website that sold UV suntanning machines-they had one that had over 30Kw of UV lamps-Skin cancer in a box!!

Post# 53877 , Reply# 33 1/19/2005 at 08:44 (7,030 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)
Checkrate/Likes *Laundress* Laundress you used a very familiar term in your post yet it is not a usage I hear in the states! You said ;"anywho" for "anyhow"? Do you have lineage back to New Brunswick, Canada??? Jet

Post# 53892 , Reply# 34 1/19/2005 at 12:07 (7,030 days old) by fixerman ()
Checkrate/Likes *Anywho* I don't think it is a Canadian expression. I hear this alot here in the states now. I don't know where it came from. Maybe someone else can enlighten us.

Post# 53898 , Reply# 35 1/19/2005 at 14:42 (7,030 days old) by pulsator-power (connecticut)
Checkrate/Likes *Anywho* I'm thinking it's a midwest thing....We don't have a clue being in the Northeast some of these expressions. We wouldn't know what a persimmon festival is, much less what one looks like, maybe we would....Like, whoever heard of Big Red Soda. Not here! Jerry

Post# 53988 , Reply# 36 1/20/2005 at 01:36 (7,029 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There�s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes Sorry guys, far as I know both sides of my family hail from the South and Northeast. Can't recall where I picked up "anywho", just know it. Launderess

Post# 54008 , Reply# 37 1/20/2005 at 07:47 (7,029 days old) by designgeek ()
Checkrate/Likes I use the Canadian "eh?," I picked it up from a boyfriend in college years ago. Tolivac, thanks for the infos on the UV lights. BTW, the "baby peeing in water fountain" item was about 1967 or so. Though today that kind of behavior probably still goes on. I have never seen "evidence" of rodent troubles in decent hotels while on business travel. I wouldn't doubt there are otherwise-good hotels that have 'em. With Hanta virus nowadays, rodents are no longer a "cute" pest problem, they are potentially fatal. Best solution I have seen is called the Rat Zapper. Electrocution trap. Humane (instant kill), clean (no splat), doesn't cause other rats/mice to get "trap shy" because they don't see/smell the results of "splat." Easy to empty, you don't touch the little buggers on their way out. Costs about $70 each if I recall correctly, but if you've got a serious rodent problem, it will clean them up in no time flat, and at far lower cost than calling an exterminator. www.ratzapper.com..., and no, I don't have a commercial interest in promoting it.

Post# 54014 , Reply# 38 1/20/2005 at 08:30 (7,029 days old) by retromom ()
Checkrate/Likes *eeeuwwwwww......* When traveling...I usually bring a small spray can of lysol and spray everything that's touchable. The bedspreads get thrown into a pile in the corner. I never walk on the carpet barefooted (yuk). I worry about the pillows. I mean, do they ever change them or clean them? When I was younger, I answered the switchboard at a really great boutique hotel (can I mention also pricey). You wouldn't believe the stories...footprints on the walls and ceilings. So what are they doing with the pillows? >:0

Post# 54042 , Reply# 39 1/20/2005 at 14:07 (7,029 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)
Checkrate/Likes *Resistant Infections* Hi Designgeek, The most troublesome infestation that I've had is Giardisis, It comes from feacal matter and usually is only contracted when visiting less than 1st world countries. The number of cases in AU is rare, but it usually comes from Cow poop, which is then injested from dirt on improperly washed vegetables or water. Giardisis is listed as a notifiable infection and its been found that I was one of 15 cases in Brisbane that year. So that rules out reticulated water. Essentially at some point I've eaten dirt. LOL The other persistant one is Blastocyctis, it lives in most people's bowls in low numbers and causes few problems. The debate is still raging over whether it is a pathogen or not. The problem it has caused me, is that it keeps colonizing and I end up with 10's of thousands of PPM instead of hundreds of PPM. With a regimented diet and a healthy lifestyle, I havent gotten rid of them, but its managable. Sorry if I've been to specific for anyone Nathan

Post# 54072 , Reply# 40 1/20/2005 at 19:55 (7,028 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)
Checkrate/Likes *Mice,rats* so far I haven't had any rodent "visitors" this winter.Had one mouse last year and got him with a regular "snap" type trap.When I get off duty at my night work shift-I eat breakfast about 2:00A.One night while I was eating--that brazen mouse ran out and ate one of the Cheerios I dropped on the floor.So I baited the snap trap with a Cheerio-put it behind one of my Hi-Fi speakers.-then finished my breakfast-while I was eating-heard a muffled snap and saw a lone cheerio roll out from behind the speaker.The trap got him!.Haven't had anymore-that was last winter.where do you get the "Zapper" type traps?-Like the "electric" mousetrap idea-less messy.I was also looking for "Haveheart" style traps that catch the mouse and allow you to put him outside.Guess in the long run you have to do-em in.

Post# 54114 , Reply# 41 1/21/2005 at 08:54 (7,028 days old) by designgeek ()
Checkrate/Likes Retromom: Hotel pillows... eeyow! Yes, a can of Lysol to bring along on business travel from now on. I wonder if Homeland Security allows those in checked baggage...? "But, Officer, do you have any idea how full of germs those hotel rooms are? They don't even wash the pillows! And my UV light thingie you asked about, that's for detecting pee stains on the sheets. Yes, it really is!" (Officer types into terminal: "Subject is not a security threat. Seems to be a clean-freak though," and says, "Okay, you can get on your plane now.") Brisnat: Nope, that wasn't too explicit. Heck, the topic has a Squeamish Warning. I hardly travel, so I don't have to worry about catching all those cooties from Third World Water. Say more about blastocystis, i.e. symptoms, severity and duration, etc. I am wondering if this isn't something that could be knocked out with simple measures that are being overlooked, e.g. a lengthy course of a specific antibiotic as works for treating chronic ulcers & reflux, or something of that nature. Tolivac et. al., re. "Love them little mousies!" Brave little bugger, that one was, to snarf a Cheerio with you still in the room. At least he has a war-story to tell to his pals in mouse-heaven. Personally I'd prefer to use live-catch traps wherever possible. Last time I had a mouse was probably about a decade ago. I put out a live-catch trap and the next morning it was full of mouse. Took it outside, away from the house, opened the trap, and the little critter took off faster than a speeding bullet. Never came back, nor did his pals. He probably told them "don't go in there, they'll put you in jail overnight!" and that was enough to make 'em stay clear. These days with Hanta virus, one can't be too careful. I suppose for the occasional mouse or two, live-catch is still viable. But if you end up with e.g. a whole nest in your garage or something, I have to think it's best to err on the side of caution & zap 'em. BTW, go to the www.ratzapper.com... site and you can probably find someone who sells 'em in your area. At least it's humane. Glue boards are so cruel they ought to be illegal; essentially the mouse ends up dying of dehydration or a heart attack from overt fear. As in war, it's one thing to do the necessary deed, it's another to engage in gratuitious cruelty.

Post# 54118 , Reply# 42 1/21/2005 at 10:28 (7,028 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)
Checkrate/Likes Most of the time when I get a bad cold is when there is something going around. My clients probably take this with them into our office and the not so good venting system spreads it through the whole building I think. I never had problems while on holiday, my real problem seems to be the office.

Post# 54125 , Reply# 43 1/21/2005 at 15:28 (7,028 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)
Checkrate/Likes *Blastocyctis* The symptoms are frequent diorrhea, gas and bloating. Its been hanging around now for 2+ years. I've been on that many courses 3months + at a time of different antibiotics and different combinations of antibiotics and it just keeps colonizing. For some reason my body cant fight them off, most people if they get a colonization of blastocystis its gone withing a few weeks. Mine has ended up persistant.

Post# 54175 , Reply# 44 1/22/2005 at 00:59 (7,027 days old) by partycycle ()
Checkrate/Likes *Preparation of Chinese food and sausage. I don't want to* Remember 7th grade health class? Common sense. Always wash our hands. Dry with a paper towel. B 4 touching our eyes, nose, face and mouth. I cannot recall the last time I had the �common cold and/or influenza�. Wash our hands thoroughly B 4 handling clean dishes. DW, when supplied with proper hot water temp, was better than hand washing. Hand washing dishes. Let dishes �air dry�. Do not dry with towels. 1968, Ace Hardware, Maytag 2 tub portable clothes washer. I recall being surprised to discover, at that time, Ace Hardware selling this unique (avocado color) portable Maytag clothes washer. A small town in the mid west. 99% of the households had plumbed - in full size laundry machines. Stuck on this portable Maytag clothes washer was an info label. Detailed information regarding what Launderess speaks of. How unsanitary a clothes washer can be. Not just machines in the Laundromat. But at home too. Further explanation regarding what to wash with what to yield best possible sanitation. And how to sanitize the clothes washer etc.

Post# 54202 , Reply# 45 1/22/2005 at 09:00 (7,027 days old) by designgeek ()
Checkrate/Likes Foraloysius, yeah, the office, I agree. Another benefit of telecommuting: you don't share office-bugges. I'm in and out of clients' offices frequently, to tweak their telephones. I avoid holding the receivers in contact with my ears as well, and wash hands on the way out of each site. Haven't had a cold or flu in over a decade. Brisnat, I have an idea; check this with your doctor. Take all the refined sugars and simple starches (e.g. sweets, white bread) out of your diet for a month or two. AND also avoid all sweetener-substitutes that have any resemblance to a sugar molecule (there are a few). Yeah I know that might be a pain in the butt, but less of one than diarrhoea. Keep track of whether you have a recurrence during that time, compared to during an average month or two month period. I suspect the bugges are feeding on sugars your body isn't utilizing for some reason. Deprive them of their fuel source and they will die off to the point where your immune system can wipe them out. (I assume your immune system isn't compromised, is that correct?) Partycycle, twin-tubs are still made (primarily in Asia). I just got one, more about which in another topic when I have time to post the details. Water efficiency similar to a front-loader, and saves 40 - 90% of the energy used to run a conventional dryer (clothes come out of the spinner nearly dry). Costs $250 new, which is about the same as inexpensive conventional TLs. Personally I think these are way cool; "best of both worlds," though with a few limitations. (And I still have the ol' Hotpoint conventional TL here as well.) That 1968 Maytag twin tub might have had a built-in heater to get the water up to "sanitize" temperature. UK models, e.g. the legendary Hoovermatic and such, heated the water in the wash tub. For various reasons, I think these machines are about to make a big come-back.

Post# 54378 , Reply# 46 1/23/2005 at 20:29 (7,025 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)
Checkrate/Likes *mouse catching* Don't like "glue board" traps either. found em at a radio sation I worked at and a mouse in one-was sqeakinbg no end-I managed to free him with needlenose pliers and release him outside-the sticky traps-I rounded em all up and threw them into the tower feild-my job was also to bush hog the tower feild-I took GREAT PLEASURE chopping those sticky traps to bits with the bush hog!!Don't know who ordered them-left a memo not to get anymore.Sadly the bush hog may have gotten some mice too-it did get a few snakes!!

Post# 54388 , Reply# 47 1/23/2005 at 21:05 (7,025 days old) by westytoploader ()
Checkrate/Likes Designgeek, Cool that you purchased a twin-tub! Those are really fun machines and you can pretty much come up with your own cycle. I'm guessing yours is the Danby model, since it costs $250. Also, do you have the old Hotpoint or the "plastic" one? Btw, the Maytag TT did not have a built-in heater. Its washtub was plastic and the heater would have probably melted it. I had an Avocado Maytag TT from the 1970's (made a video of it in action which I still have; unfortunately no pictures), and of course, making a "stupid teenager mistake", I got rid of it. I did save 99.9% of the parts though for use in another machine someday... --Austin

Post# 54404 , Reply# 48 1/23/2005 at 22:59 (7,025 days old) by Cybrvanr ()
Checkrate/Likes *colored underwear* Okay, this brings up an interesting subject...colored underwear! It's very popular today in both men and women's. Of course, novelty boxer shorts too! Now the issue is washing this underwear in very hot water and bleach to kill germs ends up fading the colors and designs rather quickly. An interesting dilemma for sure. Also, underwear today is being made out of all sorts of interesting new material that's not happy in hot water and vigerous agitation. For instance nylon, and silk. How do you all handle the new underwear types and styles when it comes to effectively washing it

Post# 54411 , Reply# 49 1/23/2005 at 23:29 (7,025 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)
Checkrate/Likes EGWW-don't think i would want to use silk or nylon underwear!would think that would get rather sweatty and unconfortable!

Post# 54419 , Reply# 50 1/24/2005 at 00:39 (7,025 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There�s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes *Since This Thread Has Drifted WAAAAAAAAAAAY Off Topic* Those traveling and staying in hotels, and even sleeping in their own beds have more to worry about than poorly laundered lines/rodents. Apparently bed bugs have made a major return to North America, especially hotel/motels. According to reports several factors are to blame and the source of the "bugs" seems to be sigh travellers from Europe and other countries that bring the critters with them (in luggage, on their own person or luggage). The bed bugs arrive but do not leave when their transport does, and subsequent visitors to the infested room pick up and take the bed bugs with them. The next source of infestation is persons "dumpster diving" and bringing home beds, bedding and other furniture that can harbour bed bugs. Launderess

Post# 54420 , Reply# 51 1/24/2005 at 00:52 (7,025 days old) by fixerman ()
Checkrate/Likes Like dad used to tell me when putting me at bed. "Sleep tight, don't let the bed bugs bite"

Post# 54422 , Reply# 52 1/24/2005 at 02:29 (7,025 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There�s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes You were lucky, we had to say that little prayer which went "...and if I die before I wake....". Just the last thought for a child to have on it's mind before going to bed! LOL

Post# 54427 , Reply# 53 1/24/2005 at 05:36 (7,025 days old) by kenmore1978 ()
Checkrate/Likes *mouse sticky traps* "Don't like "glue board" traps either. found em at a radio sation I worked at and a mouse in one-was sqeakinbg no end-I managed to free him with needlenose pliers and release him outside" In the future, vegetable oil will free them from the sticky traps without any pain

Post# 54428 , Reply# 54 1/24/2005 at 05:37 (7,025 days old) by kenmore1978 ()
Checkrate/Likes *mouse sticky traps* "Don't like "glue board" traps either. found em at a radio sation I worked at and a mouse in one-was sqeakinbg no end-I managed to free him with needlenose pliers and release him outside" In the future, vegetable oil will free them from the sticky traps without any pain

Post# 54521 , Reply# 55 1/24/2005 at 19:57 (7,024 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)
Checkrate/Likes *mouse in the trap* The mouse was found a a remote-(very remote at that) transmitter site-no kitchen,no oils,just the tools in my toolbox and the tractor in the garage of the site-was even lucky to get the garage and tractor.The nearest store was several miles away-and I didn't know about the vegetable oil at the time-I saw that on another website-thought of the poor little mouse in the trap.Seems like transmitter sites --mice love them!!lots of warm places for them to build their homes!!when I entered the building-the squeaking he made made me think the transmitter blower bearings were going-he was squeaking that loudly.and transmitter blowers (50Kw AM) make LOTS of noise!

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