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Question - New Whirlpool Toploader
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Post# 181977   1/9/2007 at 20:26 (4,178 days old) by llmaytag (Southern California)        

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I recently purchased a new Whirlpool washer after I discovered grease below my Maytag Performa LAT2500AAE washer and determined that water was leaking from the tub seal when I would wash a load at the higher water levels. (Note the grease in the attached pics.) This Maytag had the larger white porcelain tub, which isn't quite as large as the polymer and stainless steel tubs and I really loved the very basic design of Maytag washers which really had two phases. Turn the transmission one way, you get agitation, the other, you get spin and drain. Anyway...

Having the tub seal replaced would have been nearly $300 and I probably couldn't have done the job myself. It broke my heart when I discovered that Maytag was purchased by Whirlpool about a year ago. Further, I know the current models went from a two belt design to a single belt design, and understand there have been problems with getting to full spin speed which I suspect might be partly due to the single belt design. (I see someone recently got a new Dependable Care model, and if I thought I could have, I would have purchased one instead of the Whirlpool!) Well, as it turned out, and as the subject states, I purchased a new Whirlpool washer.

My two requirements in a washer is to have a white tub and an extra rinse option, so I found the a Whirlpool model with those two features. I understand that Whirlpool toploaders don't use belts, and they don't spin/drain, but instead drain, then spin. As I've used this washer, I realize how much I liked the basic-ness of the Maytag. When changing from one phase to another it seems the Whirlpool has longer delays than the Maytag, and the separate drain makes it feel like the cycles are longer overall. Anyway, the question...

On the Maytag, if I wanted to, I could hold the lid switch in, so that I could peek during agitation or spin if I wanted. The Whirlpool doesn't have an externally accessible lid switch. What's the easiest way to get around this? I can crack the lid ever so slightly and barely peek in but not really see much.

Knowing how the Whirlpool works, I know if I raise the lid during the drain, some kind of cam or something activates and when the lid is again lowered, it won't just continue draining, but will drain and spin during the drain phase, then stop and continue on to the spin. Gosh I find that irritating!

Anyway, I've carried on way too far, but would appreciate any information that will help me get around the lid switch.

Thanks!





Post# 182010 , Reply# 1   1/9/2007 at 21:49 (4,178 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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The lid switch likely is actuated by the right lid hinge. If you push the tub toward the right rear to make some room, you may be able to reach back there and feel it. But UNPLUG THE MACHINE FIRST! Could be some live current involved.

Some designs have a curved arm pressing up or into a recessed cam to trigger the switch, which makes it difficult to trigger manually.

A work-around, if you are up to it, would be bypass the switch completely. You'd have to remove the outer cabinet for access and splice the wires together. Doing this while your warranty is still in effect (if it still is) would likely void said warranty due to consumer tampering .... but it otherwise wouldn't harm the machine. It's "standard procedure" for folks on this board to bypass that pesky switch, LOL.


Post# 182055 , Reply# 2   1/9/2007 at 22:29 (4,178 days old) by gadgetgary (Bristol,CT)        
And here is the interior shot

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Of a Dependable Care, clean, no leak. And mine is not a 'Performa'

Post# 182118 , Reply# 3   1/9/2007 at 23:49 (4,178 days old) by llmaytag (Southern California)        
Dependable Care

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Actually, my first Maytag washer was a Dependable Care/Plus, (like my dryer which has lasted about 14 years). The Dependable Care looked identical and performed identical to the Performa. The Dependable Care had to be moved and stored for a while and when it was returned had a big scratch in front which made me think it had been jared around. Shortly after it was returned it failed, which is why I had the Performa. I would have much rather had a new Dependable Care than the Whirlpool!

Post# 182190 , Reply# 4   1/10/2007 at 08:31 (4,177 days old) by runematic (southcentral pa)        

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Llmaytag, you had a dependable care. For some dumb marketing reason, known only by the intelligent geniuses at Maytag, they rebadged the line as Performa for just a year or three. Nice & confusing when someone would come to my store from a "big box" where they sold the Norgetag Performa & my Performa was more expensive because it was a Newton Dependable Care. It was always interesting trying to explain the differences. Some people understood, most said, "yeah, but Lowe's Performa is $XXXX cheaper."

I think $300 for a tub seal replacement is a little salty as well.


Post# 182196 , Reply# 5   1/10/2007 at 09:12 (4,177 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA)        

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Did someone actually quote you a $300 service charge to replace the seal? It is a very easy job and can probably be done in less than an hour by an experienced tech, probably in 2 hours by a novice.

Having a dd WP do the spin drain by raising and lowering the lid during drain will put excessive strain on the coupler between the motor and the transmission and cause premature failure. While replacing a failed coupler is very easy, I wouldn't want you to have to purchase another new washer if it failed...


Post# 182211 , Reply# 6   1/10/2007 at 10:27 (4,177 days old) by llmaytag (Southern California)        
Tub Seal

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Actually, I know the part would have been approximately $50.00 plus some other $20.00 item. The fellow who looked at it said that the labor would exceed $200.00 since it all has to be taken apart. I figured that with tax on the parts and everything it would have been beyond $300.00, and I would have to wait for them to get the part and schedule to do the work. I kinda regret have the delivery people haul away the old Maytag. I should have kept it in my garage and replaced it myself. I would have had to buy a new one anyway because this kind of job would likely take me weeks to complete, but at then I'd have two machines.

On the Whirlpool, what really bugs me is that I know the machine was not designed to spin/drain at once and yet if I raise the lid drain I've then forced a spin/drain which of course will cause undue stress on the machine. That's bad design. A power outage or raised lid should not change the drain, to a drain/spin!

Oh well....


Post# 182258 , Reply# 7   1/10/2007 at 14:19 (4,177 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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As we all know, the original WP direct-drive design DID spin-drain. Are the couplers different now, unable to handle the strain? My grandmother's Design 2000 never had the coupler replaced during the 13 to 14 years she used the machine.

Post# 182281 , Reply# 8   1/10/2007 at 16:22 (4,177 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA)        

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I know that a few years ago, WP beefed up the domestic coupler using a harder rubber. The commercial line has a different coupler, made of nylon reinforced hard rubber. John Lefevre replaces couplers with the commercial grade one when he does service calls on WP's.

Post# 183411 , Reply# 9   1/15/2007 at 19:40 (4,172 days old) by smokey2367 (Titusville, PA)        

I was just wondering if the tub seal problem was common with this Maytag model #LAT2500AAE, which is the same as mine. I have been confused about the "Performa" aspect of this machine -- I keep hearing how junky Performa's are. I bought my machine from the local authorized Maytag dealer, so I guess mine is really a dependable care model. I thought they had mastered the tub seal by the time I bought mine (July 2002). From the looks of the machine pictured above, I now have my doubts. Doug

Post# 183421 , Reply# 10   1/15/2007 at 20:04 (4,172 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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doug, yours was bought at an authorize Maytag dealer. It's a Dependable Care model if it has the porcelain tub. I believe it's going to be a case-by-case basis as far as tub seal potential issues. Wouldn't worry unless it surfaces.

Post# 183487 , Reply# 11   1/16/2007 at 01:48 (4,172 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

I don't like the "neutral drain" on the WP's either, I usually lift the lid and close it again to get a spin drain. I think that all this neutral drain does is redeposit suds on the top of your clothes instead of draining it out. Been doing this on our WP DD for the past 10 years, and no problems yet. But that's not to say that it isn't good for the machine, either.

Post# 183488 , Reply# 12   1/16/2007 at 01:59 (4,172 days old) by agiflow ()        

Even with the neutral drain, these machines start spraying water on to the load as soon as the machine goes into spin...it shouldn't be a real worry.

Post# 183516 , Reply# 13   1/16/2007 at 08:14 (4,171 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Yeah, but how long is that intial spray, 7 seconds? 10 secondes? I never thought it was effective at all in my Lady Kenmore and mine starts about 4 seconds after the spin began. Personally, I thought rinsing was horrible on towels & underwear. I have noticed a significant improvement in rinsing with my front loader.

Post# 183526 , Reply# 14   1/16/2007 at 10:13 (4,171 days old) by agiflow ()        

The DD KM i am using now does 2 15 second sprays in both spins. It is pretty effective on most loads except an all towels load. Even when using the 2nd rinse, i still find some foam, though the water is pretty clear. It will spray 2 times again in the 3rd spin.

Post# 183566 , Reply# 15   1/16/2007 at 13:20 (4,171 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Taht's what Sears called the Ultrarinse system.

Post# 183605 , Reply# 16   1/16/2007 at 17:08 (4,171 days old) by llmaytag (Southern California)        

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Actually, the Performa replaced my "Dependable Care/Plus" washer. My original washer was a Dependable Care/Plus which never leaked a drop of water and I preferred the original 12 vane agitator and the overall look of the exterior and console. I think this was the first line with the larger porcelain tubs. Unfortunately my home underwent major reconstruction when I had that machine and I had to have pretty much everything in my house moved and stored for about three months. When the washer was returned, the moving company provided a small $$ amount to replace the panel. A few months after it was returned, the transmission seized and wouldn't move. When the repair guy had the front panel off, the inside didn't show any leakage or grease as in the two pictures I posted. It was about seven years old and though the transmission was still under the ten year warranty, Maytag offered my $90 credit on a new if I opted to replace the machine.

I opted to replace the machine, but if I recall correctly, the "Dependable Care" line was no longer available and "Performa" machines had a different console and front panel, but the tub, agitator, (other than the spiral top section), looked identical. The "Performa" still used two belts instead of one, and the transmission pulley was still metal or steel, (maybe aluminum). It seemed to me that the "Performa" was just a rebranding of "Dependable Care." Then again, I didn't purchase the "Performa" from a genuine Maytag dealer. May there is a difference that I didn't realize. The Whirlpool I have now is okay, but I really liked the Maytag much better. In fact, if I could find a "Dependable Care" now, I might still consider buying it.



Post# 183621 , Reply# 17   1/16/2007 at 19:16 (4,171 days old) by smokey2367 (Titusville, PA)        

I guess I should listen to appnut & not worry about it until something happens. (I tend to obsess) I haven't had any problems since I bought it. I ditched the corkscrew agitator & replaced it with a 12 vane one that has a lint filter. Works much better, although I'd still rather have my old A206 Maytag back. It's still sitting in the garage; maybe someday I'll try my hand at fixing it! doug

Post# 183687 , Reply# 18   1/16/2007 at 22:17 (4,171 days old) by llmaytag (Southern California)        
Not to worry

llmaytag's profile picture
If I were you I wouldn't worry about it. By the way, isn't the lint filter part under the agitator with both the corkscrew and the 12 vane?

Post# 183689 , Reply# 19   1/16/2007 at 22:20 (4,171 days old) by llmaytag (Southern California)        
A206

llmaytag's profile picture
By the way, why not fix the A206? If you get it fixed, then should you ever have the tubseal issue with the current machine, you can then use the A206 as you address the tubseal.

Post# 183786 , Reply# 20   1/17/2007 at 15:48 (4,170 days old) by rp2813 (The Big Blue Bubble)        
Neutral Drain & Spray Rinses

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Appnut Bob, I always thought the neutral drain was designed to reduce stress and strain on the motor and belt. My mom's 70's Kenmore was the first and only washer I ever knew to use a neutral drain but the subsequent spray rinses didn't occur until the tub was up to full spin speed and it did a good job.

My own late 90's Amana is a complete disappointment except for tub size. One 15-second spray rinse doesn't even begin to do the intended job. No spray rinse at all during final spin. I know every time I pull a load out of that machine that I'm throwing still-soapy clothing into the dryer but it seems no amount of extra rinse cycles will produce a non-sudsy product out of the drain hose. I'll never buy anything made by Amana ever again.

Ralph


Post# 183796 , Reply# 21   1/17/2007 at 17:04 (4,170 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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I think there was way more strain on the motor, belt, and clutch from the constant sudslocks than would have been caused by a spin-drain, LOL!

Post# 183802 , Reply# 22   1/17/2007 at 18:15 (4,170 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Ralph, my Lady Kenmore was at that time the brand new Driect Drive design and I was immediately disappointed there was no spra rinses between wash & rinse and only one at the beginning of the final spin. I can relate to you pulling suds stuff out of your Amana. The lack of spray rinises is a thankful result of water savings (yeah right, forces you to use a 2nd rinse at least in some cases).

Post# 183813 , Reply# 23   1/17/2007 at 19:00 (4,170 days old) by smokey2367 (Titusville, PA)        
Maytag lint filter

My washer has a "self-cleaning" lint filter under the agitator. I'm just stubborn--I like to see how much lint is being collected. I do get quite a bit of lint on the manual filter with towels & blankets.

Post# 183837 , Reply# 24   1/17/2007 at 20:56 (4,170 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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The "lint filter" under the agitator does very little in terms of catching lint that has been released from fabrics while washing. Most of those passive lint filters were simply for advertising value and if you've noticed, very few, if any machines even list a lint filter in the features. In fact, the WP's now use four little rubber plugs in the holes under the agitator that must do little more than slow down the already tiny water currents between the tubs. The detergent's suspension agents should be good enough to hold small amounts of lint in suspension in the water until it is removed from the machine.

Which brings us to spin-draining vs. neutral draining. There are certain advantages to a neutral drain - it gets the load settled lower in the tub which will usually balance better than clothes that are spun up onto the sides of the basket. The trade-off, IMO, is that all the dirty wash & rinse water are strained back through the load far more than with a spin drain. Think drip coffee filters. Many times, you can open the machine and see suds & debris (hair, etc.) lying on top of the load. WP/KM used 4 sprays after the wash and rinses to flush away this crap in the belt-drive machines but I guess decided it wasn't important in the DD's. I guess the dryer can remove that stuff. Now, if you get any spray-rinsing, clothes up on the sides of the tub will benefit more from this spray than lumped at the bottom.


Post# 183856 , Reply# 25   1/17/2007 at 21:34 (4,170 days old) by llmaytag (Southern California)        
Spin-Drain vs Neutral Drain then Spin

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Interesting to read, I agree with much of what's been said, though I really don't have any test data to refer to.

It seems to me a spin-drain offer advantages beyond flushing the suds out through the sides rather than draining down over the clothes. Seems spinning to extact water would be most effective spread across as much surface area as possible and a spin drain spreads the clothes farther up the tub than after a neutral drain. The spin-spray would be most effective passing through fewer layers of clothing. Also, perhaps it's easier on clothing pressed against the tub with fewer layers of other clothing against the layer on the tub.

Beyond what seems to be better for the wash and the clothes, having a spin-drain rather than neutral drain and spin, provides the opportunity to simplify the machine. You necessarily have to have a drain when you spin, so why have a separate phase or mode for draining alone? That's why I like the Maytag. Only two real phases or modes. A motor turns one way, the gears/transmission agitates. The motor turns in the other direction, you spin and drain. Iti just seems very elegant to me.


Post# 183875 , Reply# 26   1/17/2007 at 22:40 (4,170 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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I'm a Swirl-Away draining fan myself and the beauty of the Maytag is it's simplicity. That's not to say they can't have their own set of problems, and many do as evidenced by the pictures above, but as far as draining goes, spin it out!!

There is very little wear and tear on a properly designed machine to spin the basket while draining - that's what a clutch is for - to keep the stress off the motor, belts, etc. while the basket reaches full speed.


Post# 184356 , Reply# 27   1/19/2007 at 11:38 (4,168 days old) by llmaytag (Southern California)        
Clutch

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And that's the beauty of the Maytag design, there is no clutch! That's why you have to use genuine Maytag belts. The belt and the transmission pulley provide enough slip as the tub comes up to speed.


Post# 186721 , Reply# 28   1/28/2007 at 14:28 (4,159 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

I have been doing spin drains in my KA since 1992 and have not lost a coupler yet. Turning a full solid tub is a far different and heavier task than spinning a perforated basket in a tub filled with water. The older spray rinse pattern in the KA direct drives was two lengthy sprays between wash and rinse after the motor shifted up to high speed. After the drain of the deep rinse, when the load was at the bottom of the tub and any bubbles and film from the top of the water were on top of the clothes, as soon as the washer started spinning, there was a long spray rinse that showered down on the top of the load to wash the gunk away. Another spray rinse followed. Both of these were during the initial slow spin speed. After the second spray rinse stopped, the motor shifted to high speed and there were no more spray rinses. There was also a later modification in the fill flume. Instead of being shaped to produce a water pattern that had almost a 140 degree curve that flared forward at the opposite ends to cover more of the load sitting at the bottom of the basket when the last spin started at slow speed, the new flume provides more of a flat spray that is directed toward the back of the basket to be pulled by centrifugal force into the clothes.

Post# 186730 , Reply# 29   1/28/2007 at 15:12 (4,159 days old) by sillysuds (new jersey)        
Lack of spray rinse

I, have a Estate washer by Whirlpool,it has just two spray rinses in the final spin. are the newer whirlpools going back to four? I hope so. Thank You.

Post# 186737 , Reply# 30   1/28/2007 at 15:45 (4,159 days old) by llmaytag (Southern California)        
New WP

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My New only only gives two. One at the start of the final spin, and one shortly afterward. None on the second rinse, (I always use the second rinse). My Maytag did one long spray shortly after the beginning of each rinse, first and second.

Post# 975935 , Reply# 31   12/29/2017 at 00:34 by jlhain (dayton)        
Maytag Performa Ultra Care 2 LAT2500AAE

Hi. I am having problems with my Maytag Performa Ultra Care 2 LAT2500AAE. The agitator moves the same way the tub moves when the tub is in a wash cycle. I can move the agitator clockwise by hand,but not counterclockwise. The motor is hot on the bottom where the transmission connects to it by the belt. The washer won't spin out, and it won't stop filling at the set water level. The transmission does spin, but I don't know if it is supposed to spin faster




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